Match Making is the #1 reason for the high lvl of " Toxicity "

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Highly Rated
This incredibly bad match making system throws skilled , very skilled ,tactful & strategic players together on the same team with players who barely have the fundemental basic concepts down and often have no idea of:

bad positioning,
ambushes,
xp soaking,
tactful retreats,
kill focusing,
kill order,
multi ULT timing ,
etc...

.........let alone enough skill to compensate .

why is it ok to punish someone for being arguably " toxic " and saying " stop feeding ", but not ok to punish the players that cost other hardcore players 20 -30 mins of actual i.r.L. time , MMR rating , ranked points , and rank all at once , ( in regards to H.L. / T.L. ) ?

just seems like blizzard would save a lot of heart ache , and clam a lot of fires if they focused their attention on fixing this match making system, if u can even call a system .
Random America-inspired thought: Matchmaking does not insult people. People insult people.
Hate the game, not the player
People are responsible for their own actions.
This is nothing new skil difference between player on same rank is so huge. I am often angry when i see how amazing bad some people are.

But in the end it changes nothing if you hate them or not and can only lead to mute. I just had game where in the end everyone looked equal, maybe not in 100% but our Diablo was like silver player playing in platnium (it's only example).

If i tell him that will it change this fact? No. Whole matchmaking and ranked system is bad and we cant change it
I hate to be that one guy but I agree with Bax.

I sorta agree with the whole the MMR causes toxicity.

But it's not just THE MMR as it is also THE COMMUNITY.

If you say it's the MMR's fault. Then all matches should been bad, but I had matches where we communicated and wworked together perfectly.
1 losses was terrible on us since we all underpreformed and didn't try to coordinate our talents together (also one guy was really good)

The next game I had the guy who was kicking my !@# the whole game and told my team to let him do as he wants as he is reliable.
I went with self substain so my support doesnt have to heal me as Arthas.
And the rest went fine with it.

Unlike my $%^- loss last game where we lost 2 kills to 20.
This win we won 0 deaths to 18.
No one died since I even coordinated with Samuro who told us he prefers working alone. I gave clear indications that I would take over his lane so he can do mercenaries. The rest of the team followwed and I kept my health and mana up by myself 90% of the game so that Samuro could split push and the enemy was forced to attack me.

So...yea.
I am going to blame MMR to some degree for not dropping selfish players to bottom tiers right away, but... it's also the community's fault for nnot trying to coordinate and doing whatever.
It's also the community's fault for exploiting MMR to a degree.
You can blame Blizzard for not fixing it RIGHT AWAY, but if the community just says: "We will abuse it till they fix it" doesn't help anyone. It makes the community look childish.

That's why I say MMR is borked, but it's not 100% Blizzard's fault. Since if the community abuses something... it's not on Blizzard to fix it.
We aren't all little kids that need to be taught....unlike the silence system seems to do.

If we can take 50% of the problem away. let's do that 1st before saying to Blizzard: "Where's your part in this?"
Some guy yesterday said he would report me for not joining the teamfight, no objective was up and the other team was soaking on all lanes, of course i would join the teamfight during objectives. So i got reported and flamed for not playing the game wrong. Im lvl 700+ i also have no clue why i get matched with players who don't even understand simply game rules like how xp soaking works.
I can't believe that Bloodborn is being downvoted for speaking the truth here.

There have been documented cases of Blizzard upholding Silence penalties because someone called out the behaviour of a feeding teammate without directly insulting them.

If you don't believe me, here are some sources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6leioo/highly_popular_russian_streamer_silenced_for/

Russian player has silence appeal rejected for 'sarcastic remarks about the skill of another player.' His messages weren't even insulting at all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/5qhuh7/14k_games_played_my_experience_with_the_silence/

Another player has silence appeals rejected for asking his teammates to report a feeding player. 'Trash talk' in a private Party chat conversation which this player didn't get reported for were also used to justify one of his silences.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/20747865030?page=1

Player gets appeal rejected by Blizzard despite them finding zero evidence of any abusive chat. Instead his silence was upheld because to the GM who handled the appeal, he should have just stayed silent instead of criticising the behaviour of his teammates.

By removing these players because they dare hurt somebody's ego by giving them feedback or criticism, Blizzard is sending a very clear message. Feeding is fine, but calling out someone for actions that negatively impact the team isn't.

What does Blizzard's attitude towards their community tell me? That acts of sabotage like insta-locking Murky/Gazlowe/Lost Vikings when you're last in pick order and the team needs a healer is absolutely okay! But if anyone dare chews you out on sabotaging any chances your team has to win the game, then they deserve to be banned from Hero League for weeks, even months at a time.

It's silly and it needs to stop.
I'd actually agree here, trying to balance out teams by putting High skilled and low skilled players together is a bad mix. It's super frustrating when playing with someone who doesn't know basic concepts of the game.
06/04/2018 16:34Posted by Kotlol
I hate to be that one guy but I agree with Bax.

I sorta agree with the whole the MMR causes toxicity.


No. MM causes anger. Anger only causes toxicity if people have no self-control. Angry children throwing temper tantrums.

And it doesn't even serve a purpose - quite the opposite, you're just annoying people and hurting morale.
If by MM induced toxicity you mean the guy being assigned to my team who WILL trollpick from Tank to Gazlowe at the last second then standing in Planet Cracker without moving just to die to it losing us the game after bragging about how ez this win is going to be and we shouldn't worry. Yes, that will cause toxicity.

I take offense in such actions and waste of my personal life-time and will make sure to let them know by asking "why didn't you move a step to not take unhealable dmg and die?", or " "ez win", right? :)" when losing the game. Call me toxic but actions like these are just as much of a slap to the face as some guy spewing out hateful chat messages.
06/04/2018 23:58Posted by KaeYoss
06/04/2018 16:34Posted by Kotlol
I hate to be that one guy but I agree with Bax.

I sorta agree with the whole the MMR causes toxicity.


No. MM causes anger. Anger only causes toxicity if people have no self-control. Angry children throwing temper tantrums.

And it doesn't even serve a purpose - quite the opposite, you're just annoying people and hurting morale.

What Blizzard - and those defending their draconian report system - seem to forget is that anger is a natural human emotion and there are plenty of reasons for a player to feel frustrated in a Ranked game.

First of all, any competitive player wants to improve their ranking. You do this by winning a larger percentage of your games and by winning against higher ranked opponents. There are however many roadblocks to this - many of which are outside a player's direct control:

Firstly, many games are decided in the draft phase and a really bad draft can instantly lose you a match. Let's say that your team locks two assassins, a specialist and a warrior in and the last player in pick order needs to pick a support. Except he doesn't want to play support. He insta-locks Murky instead. That player has just lost you the game by instalocking a siege/waveclear hero that your team comp probably already has. Meanwhile, by not having a healer, your team is put at such a competitive disadvantage that you will not even remotely be able to win the match. Only a true stoic would not get nettled at the fact that a teammate deliberately threw the game and troll-picked against the meta.

Secondly, how would you feel if your teammates were acting unruly and refused to communicate? I've had plenty of instances where I've pinged and asked players in chat to help gank my lane or tried to ping an objective or called for the team to push core when we win a team fight, yet nobody responds. Many people would find this level of ignorance and insubordination frustrating. Even though AFK/Nonparticipation is a reportable offence, I still have yet to see Blizzard punish players for choosing to sever contact with their teammates.

Thirdly, the game seems to encourage players to abandon a 'lost' game, because if you disconnect after the game's started, you won't get a 600 Rank Point penalty but will get docked points and get a temporary Hero League ban if you leave or are disconnected during the draft phase - even if you get kicked due to being auto-silenced.

Why is this terrible? Because the Beginner AI that replaces a disconnected teammate is beyond horrible and will instantly lose you a game. It is mindblowing that players still lose rank points from games that have been ruined by leavers/disconnecters in 2018, when pretty much every other MOBA has safeguards that will let players abandon such a game with no penalty.

Also, calling frustrated players "angry children throwing temper tantrums"? You could not be more ignorant and misguided about your description of players who get silenced by Blizzard's report system.

Was this guy an angry child throwing a temper tantrum when Blizzard rejected his appeal for 'sarcastic remarks' which weren't even remotely insulting?

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6leioo/highly_popular_russian_streamer_silenced_for/

Or what about this guy who had his appeal rejected despite the Customer Support rep finding no evidence of abusive chat in his chat logs?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/20747865030?page=1

Or what about this guy and his friend who had appeals shut down with auto-replies by Customer Support, with no evidence or chat logs provided to the players?

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/17613661300

Or what about players like Grubby and Chu8 who have been hit with silences live on stream despite not being toxic players at all? Blizzard claim that penalties are only applied 'after investigation' yet this has been proven to be a lie.

Want proof? Here's a WoW player who got slapped with a name change request and a silence all because he ganked a multiboxer who decided to abuse the system and send false reports on all 20 of his characters, which was enough to automatically trigger a name change request and a silence penalty. Zero investigation.

The worst part about that particular case was Customer Support refusing to restore this guy's character name after it was subsequently taken - until the thread below actually blew up on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/7p71hu/tifu_by_ganking_a_20man_multiboxer/

I have plenty more examples where that came from.
07/04/2018 00:32Posted by Fatalion
If by MM induced toxicity you mean the guy being assigned to my team who WILL trollpick from Tank to Gazlowe at the last second then standing in Planet Cracker without moving just to die to it losing us the game after bragging about how ez this win is going to be and we shouldn't worry. Yes, that will cause toxicity.

I take offense in such actions and waste of my personal life-time and will make sure to let them know by asking "why didn't you move a step to not take unhealable dmg and die?", or " "ez win", right? :)" when losing the game. Call me toxic but actions like these are just as much of a slap to the face as some guy spewing out hateful chat messages.


this guy gets it.
07/04/2018 01:35Posted by Clbull
06/04/2018 23:58Posted by KaeYoss
...

No. MM causes anger. Anger only causes toxicity if people have no self-control. Angry children throwing temper tantrums.

And it doesn't even serve a purpose - quite the opposite, you're just annoying people and hurting morale.

What Blizzard - and those defending their draconian report system - seem to forget is that anger is a natural human emotion and there are plenty of reasons for a player to feel frustrated in a Ranked game.

First of all, any competitive player wants to improve their ranking. You do this by winning a larger percentage of your games and by winning against higher ranked opponents. There are however many roadblocks to this - many of which are outside a player's direct control:

Firstly, many games are decided in the draft phase and a really bad draft can instantly lose you a match. Let's say that your team locks two assassins, a specialist and a warrior in and the last player in pick order needs to pick a support. Except he doesn't want to play support. He insta-locks Murky instead. That player has just lost you the game by instalocking a siege/waveclear hero that your team comp probably already has. Meanwhile, by not having a healer, your team is put at such a competitive disadvantage that you will not even remotely be able to win the match. Only a true stoic would not get nettled at the fact that a teammate deliberately threw the game and troll-picked against the meta.

Secondly, how would you feel if your teammates were acting unruly and refused to communicate? I've had plenty of instances where I've pinged and asked players in chat to help gank my lane or tried to ping an objective or called for the team to push core when we win a team fight, yet nobody responds. Many people would find this level of ignorance and insubordination frustrating. Even though AFK/Nonparticipation is a reportable offence, I still have yet to see Blizzard punish players for choosing to sever contact with their teammates.

Thirdly, the game seems to encourage players to abandon a 'lost' game, because if you disconnect after the game's started, you won't get a 600 Rank Point penalty but will get docked points and get a temporary Hero League ban if you leave or are disconnected during the draft phase - even if you get kicked due to being auto-silenced.

Why is this terrible? Because the Beginner AI that replaces a disconnected teammate is beyond horrible and will instantly lose you a game. It is mindblowing that players still lose rank points from games that have been ruined by leavers/disconnecters in 2018, when pretty much every other MOBA has safeguards that will let players abandon such a game with no penalty.

Also, calling frustrated players "angry children throwing temper tantrums"? You could not be more ignorant and misguided about your description of players who get silenced by Blizzard's report system.

Was this guy an angry child throwing a temper tantrum when Blizzard rejected his appeal for 'sarcastic remarks' which weren't even remotely insulting?

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6leioo/highly_popular_russian_streamer_silenced_for/

Or what about this guy who had his appeal rejected despite the Customer Support rep finding no evidence of abusive chat in his chat logs?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/20747865030?page=1

Or what about this guy and his friend who had appeals shut down with auto-replies by Customer Support, with no evidence or chat logs provided to the players?

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/17613661300

Or what about players like Grubby and Chu8 who have been hit with silences live on stream despite not being toxic players at all? Blizzard claim that penalties are only applied 'after investigation' yet this has been proven to be a lie.

Want proof? Here's a WoW player who got slapped with a name change request and a silence all because he ganked a multiboxer who decided to abuse the system and send false reports on all 20 of his characters, which was enough to automatically trigger a name change request and a silence penalty. Zero investigation.

The worst part about that particular case was Customer Support refusing to restore this guy's character name after it was subsequently taken - until the thread below actually blew up on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/7p71hu/tifu_by_ganking_a_20man_multiboxer/

I have plenty more examples where that came from.


Well said. There is nothing more to add. Too bad Blizzard will never listen
07/04/2018 01:35Posted by Clbull
06/04/2018 23:58Posted by KaeYoss
...

No. MM causes anger. Anger only causes toxicity if people have no self-control. Angry children throwing temper tantrums.

And it doesn't even serve a purpose - quite the opposite, you're just annoying people and hurting morale.

What Blizzard - and those defending their draconian report system - seem to forget is that anger is a natural human emotion and there are plenty of reasons for a player to feel frustrated in a Ranked game.

First of all, any competitive player wants to improve their ranking. You do this by winning a larger percentage of your games and by winning against higher ranked opponents. There are however many roadblocks to this - many of which are outside a player's direct control:

Firstly, many games are decided in the draft phase and a really bad draft can instantly lose you a match. Let's say that your team locks two assassins, a specialist and a warrior in and the last player in pick order needs to pick a support. Except he doesn't want to play support. He insta-locks Murky instead. That player has just lost you the game by instalocking a siege/waveclear hero that your team comp probably already has. Meanwhile, by not having a healer, your team is put at such a competitive disadvantage that you will not even remotely be able to win the match. Only a true stoic would not get nettled at the fact that a teammate deliberately threw the game and troll-picked against the meta.

Secondly, how would you feel if your teammates were acting unruly and refused to communicate? I've had plenty of instances where I've pinged and asked players in chat to help gank my lane or tried to ping an objective or called for the team to push core when we win a team fight, yet nobody responds. Many people would find this level of ignorance and insubordination frustrating. Even though AFK/Nonparticipation is a reportable offence, I still have yet to see Blizzard punish players for choosing to sever contact with their teammates.

Thirdly, the game seems to encourage players to abandon a 'lost' game, because if you disconnect after the game's started, you won't get a 600 Rank Point penalty but will get docked points and get a temporary Hero League ban if you leave or are disconnected during the draft phase - even if you get kicked due to being auto-silenced.

Why is this terrible? Because the Beginner AI that replaces a disconnected teammate is beyond horrible and will instantly lose you a game. It is mindblowing that players still lose rank points from games that have been ruined by leavers/disconnecters in 2018, when pretty much every other MOBA has safeguards that will let players abandon such a game with no penalty.

Also, calling frustrated players "angry children throwing temper tantrums"? You could not be more ignorant and misguided about your description of players who get silenced by Blizzard's report system.

Was this guy an angry child throwing a temper tantrum when Blizzard rejected his appeal for 'sarcastic remarks' which weren't even remotely insulting?

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6leioo/highly_popular_russian_streamer_silenced_for/

Or what about this guy who had his appeal rejected despite the Customer Support rep finding no evidence of abusive chat in his chat logs?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/20747865030?page=1

Or what about this guy and his friend who had appeals shut down with auto-replies by Customer Support, with no evidence or chat logs provided to the players?

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/17613661300

Or what about players like Grubby and Chu8 who have been hit with silences live on stream despite not being toxic players at all? Blizzard claim that penalties are only applied 'after investigation' yet this has been proven to be a lie.

Want proof? Here's a WoW player who got slapped with a name change request and a silence all because he ganked a multiboxer who decided to abuse the system and send false reports on all 20 of his characters, which was enough to automatically trigger a name change request and a silence penalty. Zero investigation.

The worst part about that particular case was Customer Support refusing to restore this guy's character name after it was subsequently taken - until the thread below actually blew up on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/7p71hu/tifu_by_ganking_a_20man_multiboxer/

I have plenty more examples where that came from.


100% agreed, just look at the evidence Clbull has provided.
There is one more thing to add. Why does Blizzard feel it's necessary to ban Silenced players from entering Hero League and Team League?

Their so-called justification is as follows:

Silenced Player Restriction: Hero League is meant to be the place to play for competitive, high-intensity matches. This means that communication will be integral to a team’s success. With this in mind, we will be removing silenced players’ ability to queue in this game mode until their silence penalty expires. We hope this serves as a head-up if you’re currently under a silence penalty, as there is some time before the new ranked system hits live servers for penalties to expire.


Source: https://eu.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/20111014/ranked-play-revamp-06-05-2016

Blizzard feels it's necessary to ban Silenced players from Ranked play because 'communication is integral to a team's success.' Yet despite this, you can disable all forms of Team chat in the Options menu and still queue for Ranked modes without any penalty.

Unlike players who choose to mute their entire team and ignore them, silenced players can still read chat.

This is hypocrisy of the highest order and absolutely deserves to be called out.
This is a people problem. They choose to behave this way. Blizzard has no hand in this. Their Matchmaking might not work like intended, but in the end it's the people that cause the problems.
07/04/2018 12:21Posted by Chevron
This is a people problem. They choose to behave this way. Blizzard has no hand in this. Their Matchmaking might not work like intended, but in the end it's the people that cause the problems.

Both the playerbase and Blizzard are in the wrong.

By abusing the report system to silence negative feedback and criticism, or even bully underperforming players out of the game, the playerbase has effectively created a safe space where any form of criticism or feedback is considered 'toxic' and is punishable by Silence penalties of increasing duration. It puts forward the notion that players shouldn't try to improve their play but rather play how they like even if it is detrimental to the overall team's performance. This is a mindset that is just as if not more toxic than someone who flames their team. It results in the terrible matchmaking that we currently see in Heroes and doesn't win matches.

And how are Blizzard also to blame for this? Just look at the evidence i provided in my prior posts. They are enabling this behaviour by continuing to punish people for voicing problems with the team.

I'm not surprised that the playerbase is shrinking. I imagine that a lot of players have already quit due to the flaws present in the game. If anything, at the rate Blizzard are going, I can see this game dying in the next year from lack of players.
07/04/2018 13:29Posted by AltkanzlerS
Yeah yeah, its always the others standing in your way, if you could get ranks alone you'd all be grandmasters by now. Why are you constanstly matched with bad players? Because you are bad. Period. That you feel the need to lie to yourself and seek confirmation from others that do the exact same thing because you cant just deal with the fact that you are not better than others is beyond pathetic.

Oh, and for the topic of toxicity: If you think telling others to "stop feeding" while they are clearly not doing it on purpose, THATS toxicity. You feel the need to point out a mistake they make, humiliating them in front of all others even though they already know they did something stupid. Why do you do this? Because you need stress relief, you cant deal with the fact that something got you in a worse position, so you'd rather make it worse by pushing players to tilt than taking responsibility and make the best out of it. Is it an excuse to play even worse because others spam their "rightfull criticism"? No. Is it ok to do so? No.

You want a solution for toxicity? Realize that you are a part of it. And then: Learn to shut.the f***.up.

You're telling people not to be toxic and to not point out mistakes because it is 'humiliating and demoralizing', then rudely and through use of mature language tell people who complain about matchmaking to 'shut the **** up.'

You are the biggest hypocrite I have ever seen post on the forums. Jeez.

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