We are all in ELO hell to stay apparently

General Discussion
The previous two seasons I have played solo queue and picked heroes according to what I like to play and are skilled at playing.
I figured this is a good way to help my team by bringing my a game.
It wasnt always the "ideal" hero picks but I figured it's more helpful to the team if I play a hero that I master rather then a hero that I suck with.

Needless to say - this didnt work out well in the end. At the end of the seasons I had put in 50+ hours of playtime and ended up just about where I started the season or slightly lower.

So this third season I figured I must change something - I decided to try to pick hero last every game and always pick the hero that was needed for a good team composition, no matter how well I play it.

Something must be done in order to ever climb this rank and this was a good advice from experienced players.
Always help your team by making the composition the best possible!

I have now put in some serious hours in this season and guess where I am?
That's right - just about where I started. Nothing gained, just a little lost.

Even tho I mostly have played support this season (it's never a shortage of dps or tanks it seems) and gotten fairly good at doing so - there is just no way up the ranks if you solo queue!

I help the team all I can, I am a pretty good player, I dont troll, I am not toxic, I am in team chat trying to help my teammates - Yet I keep loosing rank.

It's simply a roullette of what players you get teamed up with that decides your fate.
Get decent players one game and win, get one troll next game and loose, get one leaver third game and loose, get a good team and win comfortably and then get a really bad player in team and loose again.

That's how the average 5 games you play look at at low gold rank , on average 2 wins and 3 losses, and there's nothing much you can do about it!

My conclusion - dont even try to help your team - just play what you enjoy and try to have fun. Rank up is not gonna happen no matter how hard you try apparently...
What did you expect with an avg. objective time of 1 minute? You don't rank up if you don't try to win. And if you're not on the objective, you're not trying to win.
15/12/2016 05:42Posted by Tollon
The previous two seasons I have played solo queue and picked heroes according to what I like to play and are skilled at playing.
I figured this is a good way to help my team by bringing my a game.
It wasnt always the "ideal" hero picks but I figured it's more helpful to the team if I play a hero that I master rather then a hero that I suck with.

Needless to say - this didnt work out well in the end. At the end of the seasons I had put in 50+ hours of playtime and ended up just about where I started the season or slightly lower.

So this third season I figured I must change something - I decided to try to pick hero last every game and always pick the hero that was needed for a good team composition, no matter how well I play it.

Something must be done in order to ever climb this rank and this was a good advice from experienced players.
Always help your team by making the composition the best possible!

I have now put in some serious hours in this season and guess where I am?
That's right - just about where I started. Nothing gained, just a little lost.

Even tho I mostly have played support this season (it's never a shortage of dps or tanks it seems) and gotten fairly good at doing so - there is just no way up the ranks if you solo queue!

I help the team all I can, I am a pretty good player, I dont troll, I am not toxic, I am in team chat trying to help my teammates - Yet I keep loosing rank.

It's simply a roullette of what players you get teamed up with that decides your fate.
Get decent players one game and win, get one troll next game and loose, get one leaver third game and loose, get a good team and win comfortably and then get a really bad player in team and loose again.

That's how the average 5 games you play look at at low gold rank , on average 2 wins and 3 losses, and there's nothing much you can do about it!

My conclusion - dont even try to help your team - just play what you enjoy and try to have fun. Rank up is not gonna happen no matter how hard you try apparently...


I am wrestling with buying a new account - I think MMR is the issue here. I get matched with players with the same MMR as me, but some of these players are completely oblivious to what is going on around them.

My theory is that since I have improved massively since starting the game, if I get a new account and do my placements on there, my rank should be higher than what I got last/this season. I think MMR is what is holding some people back, and it sucks, MMR is not always your doing - we have all lost matches to complete trolls, and those still affect our MMR, so we look weaker than we are because of these idiots.

You know what, I'll do it over my christmas holiday and post results.
15/12/2016 08:54Posted by Klazik
What did you expect with an avg. objective time of 1 minute? You don't rank up if you don't try to win. And if you're not on the objective, you're not trying to win.


I play support. If my team dont make it to the objective - I dont make it to the objective. Thus I cant get objective time. SImple...
15/12/2016 09:02Posted by Tollon
15/12/2016 08:54Posted by Klazik
What did you expect with an avg. objective time of 1 minute? You don't rank up if you don't try to win. And if you're not on the objective, you're not trying to win.


I play support. If my team dont make it to the objective - I dont make it to the objective. Thus I cant get objective time. SImple...

Play Lucio instead of Zen. Dance on that objective. If you can't do that, you are in the right place regarding your rank.
15/12/2016 09:00Posted by Buffalo
15/12/2016 05:42Posted by Tollon
The previous two seasons I have played solo queue and picked heroes according to what I like to play and are skilled at playing.
I figured this is a good way to help my team by bringing my a game.
It wasnt always the "ideal" hero picks but I figured it's more helpful to the team if I play a hero that I master rather then a hero that I suck with.

Needless to say - this didnt work out well in the end. At the end of the seasons I had put in 50+ hours of playtime and ended up just about where I started the season or slightly lower.

So this third season I figured I must change something - I decided to try to pick hero last every game and always pick the hero that was needed for a good team composition, no matter how well I play it.

Something must be done in order to ever climb this rank and this was a good advice from experienced players.
Always help your team by making the composition the best possible!

I have now put in some serious hours in this season and guess where I am?
That's right - just about where I started. Nothing gained, just a little lost.

Even tho I mostly have played support this season (it's never a shortage of dps or tanks it seems) and gotten fairly good at doing so - there is just no way up the ranks if you solo queue!

I help the team all I can, I am a pretty good player, I dont troll, I am not toxic, I am in team chat trying to help my teammates - Yet I keep loosing rank.

It's simply a roullette of what players you get teamed up with that decides your fate.
Get decent players one game and win, get one troll next game and loose, get one leaver third game and loose, get a good team and win comfortably and then get a really bad player in team and loose again.

That's how the average 5 games you play look at at low gold rank , on average 2 wins and 3 losses, and there's nothing much you can do about it!

My conclusion - dont even try to help your team - just play what you enjoy and try to have fun. Rank up is not gonna happen no matter how hard you try apparently...


I am wrestling with buying a new account - I think MMR is the issue here. I get matched with players with the same MMR as me, but some of these players are completely oblivious to what is going on around them.

My theory is that since I have improved massively since starting the game, if I get a new account and do my placements on there, my rank should be higher than what I got last/this season. I think MMR is what is holding some people back, and it sucks, MMR is not always your doing - we have all lost matches to complete trolls, and those still affect our MMR, so we look weaker than we are because of these idiots.

You know what, I'll do it over my christmas holiday and post results.


U do that. I am about to give up on this game totally. I have no friends to play with so I am doomed to solo queue.
And considering how the skill>luck ratio change towards luck the further down you fall on the ranking, I see no way up from here. Ever.

U play your best, you get your medals and you help your team in any way possible. That is usually enough to help your team win.
At higher rank you mostly loose because you aren't skilled enough .
At low gold/silver you loose DESPITE beeing well above most players in skill level, tactics and teamplay - you loose just because chance have it you got yet another troll or leaver in the team.

Dont get me wrong, I know I aint a highly skilled player, I just know from what I see in every match I play, that I dont belong in silver rankings. Yet there's where I am and there's no way up from it. If anything - the more I play the deeper I sink.

I will actually not even be surprised if I end up at bronze at the end of the season the way things are going now...

I dont know what it is - but SOMETHING in this ranking system is fundamentally broken...
15/12/2016 09:06Posted by Klazik
15/12/2016 09:02Posted by Tollon
...

I play support. If my team dont make it to the objective - I dont make it to the objective. Thus I cant get objective time. SImple...

Play Lucio instead of Zen. Dance on that objective. If you can't do that, you are in the right place regarding your rank.


I think you underestimate exactly how bad my teams usually are.
I estimate that 30% of the matches I play, my team doesnt even GET TO THE OBJECTIVE. We die pushing and then everyone runs in alone and keep dieing over and over.

I say in team speak and chat and even emote to gather up and push as a team - no response. All just runs in alone to die anyway.
THAT*S the level of skill I am talking about here.

I know it can be hard to understand exactly how bad players are down here if you never been in silver/low silver rank - but they are actually terrible in a tactical sense. Some of them can aim but not many at all play as a team down here.

And considering I am not a platinum or above player by any means (believe me - I know my limitations), I myself aint skilled enough to carry those kind of players - especially not as a support hero.
15/12/2016 09:33Posted by Tollon
15/12/2016 09:06Posted by Klazik
...
Play Lucio instead of Zen. Dance on that objective. If you can't do that, you are in the right place regarding your rank.


I think you underestimate exactly how bad my teams usually are.
I estimate that 30% of the matches I play, my team doesnt even GET TO THE OBJECTIVE. We die pushing and then everyone runs in alone and keep dieing over and over.

I say in team speak and chat and even emote to gather up and push as a team - no response. All just runs in alone to die anyway.
THAT*S the level of skill I am talking about here.

I know it can be hard to understand exactly how bad players are down here if you never been in silver/low silver rank - but they are actually terrible in a tactical sense. Some of them can aim but not many at all play as a team down here.

And considering I am not a platinum or above player by any means (believe me - I know my limitations), I myself aint skilled enough to carry those kind of players - especially not as a support hero.

If you're not platinum or above, then why do you complain about being in gold? And remember, if your teammates aim and play like !@#$, there's a good chance the enemy team if just as poor, hence why it's possible to climb out, if you belong in another tier.
At a certain level you hit the pure CASUAL no idea what they are doing, oooh I win 50% of my games players. META whats that?

Currently trying to broaden my skills with other heroes in Quickplay and my MMR has dropped into this bracket. Practice at this level is useless and nothing can be gained from it. Will have to DPS my MMR back up again.
15/12/2016 10:08Posted by Klazik
15/12/2016 09:33Posted by Tollon
...

I think you underestimate exactly how bad my teams usually are.
I estimate that 30% of the matches I play, my team doesnt even GET TO THE OBJECTIVE. We die pushing and then everyone runs in alone and keep dieing over and over.

I say in team speak and chat and even emote to gather up and push as a team - no response. All just runs in alone to die anyway.
THAT*S the level of skill I am talking about here.

I know it can be hard to understand exactly how bad players are down here if you never been in silver/low silver rank - but they are actually terrible in a tactical sense. Some of them can aim but not many at all play as a team down here.

And considering I am not a platinum or above player by any means (believe me - I know my limitations), I myself aint skilled enough to carry those kind of players - especially not as a support hero.

If you're not platinum or above, then why do you complain about being in gold? And remember, if your teammates aim and play like !@#$, there's a good chance the enemy team if just as poor, hence why it's possible to climb out, if you belong in another tier.


May I ask at what rank you yourself are playing atm?
15/12/2016 10:15Posted by sedITion
At a certain level you hit the pure CASUAL no idea what they are doing, oooh I win 50% of my games players. META whats that?

Currently trying to broaden my skills with other heroes in Quickplay and my MMR has dropped into this bracket. Practice at this level is useless and nothing can be gained from it. Will have to DPS my MMR back up again.


U are exactly right. A bad streak from gold rank and you find yourself in the casual bracket in no time. And good luck getting out of that if you arent lucky with getting the right teammates or if you dont happen to be an exceptional player yourself so you and maybe 1 or 2 decent teammates can carry the other bad half of the team every single game...
It would be interresting to see what stats a platinum or above Zenyatta main have this season. Just to compare. That would be a good way to see if the problem is actually with me playing Zenyatta badly or not.
But honestly I highly doubt that the problem is me playing badly.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
If you're not platinum or above, then why do you complain about being in gold? And remember, if your teammates aim and play like !@#$, there's a good chance the enemy team if just as poor, hence why it's possible to climb out, if you belong in another tier.


May I ask at what rank you yourself are playing atm?

Not ranked yet, but it doesn't require more than common sense to know why you don't climb. .
I will get back to this thread when I've played more ranked just to proove that there's no such thing as "elo hell". In every game ever I've played there's always some players complaining about the "elo hell". If you're good, you can climb out, if you suck, you go down with your ship. People just have problems accepting they are not "gosu" players with "l33t" skills. I play a lot of support, and if I have some team mates not getting to the payload because of a Widow sniping them, then I simply go kill her, and go back to the payload/objective. There are many ways to carry, but don't think you can relax for 1 second if you want to carry a "bunch of retards" or whatever you call them.
Ok. So you are just a guy with an opinion that basically talks out of your a.s then. You have actually no idea what I talk about.
Thanks for your opinions tho - but they mean nothing when you dont have the playtime to back them up...
15/12/2016 10:27Posted by Tollon
It would be interresting to see what stats a platinum or above Zenyatta main have this season. Just to compare. That would be a good way to see if the problem is actually with me playing Zenyatta badly or not.
But honestly I highly doubt that the problem is me playing badly.


You are at slightly below 50% win rate of your 117 games, so you are at your correct SR. THAT IS THE POINT OF RANK TO KEEP GAMES BALANCED.

If YOU unbalance it in your teams favour, you go up. I started at gold and I am now in Diamond. I went on a winning streak from gold until high platinum, then worked hard to get diamond, only been a week or so in, aiming for Masters, last 2 seasons I have been casual. I see that now.

Like playing with friends who are lower SR, playing late at night whilst drinking etc.

I understand about how you feel, 4 times last season at 2975 rank, I had leavers, stoners, drunks, trolls.. but the other teams get them too.

As support mains "I am currently 98%playing Ana" we rely on keeping the team alive to do what they need to do, so yeah, if you keep alive a rubbish Mcree, Tracer is going to kill you all. Keep alive a drunk RHOg and he is going to miss every hook.

But the other team has the same problem. The system works guys, you either need more games to balance it out, or you need to swallow your pride, not everyone can be in the top 25% of the player base skill level. There is a bottom and a top..... 50% winrate is the objective for the MMR.

SO, yeah, that's that....

Peace,

NIDCLXVI
15/12/2016 11:11Posted by Tollon
Ok. So you are just a guy with an opinion that basically talks out of your a.s then. You have actually no idea what I talk about.
Thanks for your opinions tho - but they mean nothing when you dont have the playtime to back them up...

This is not the only game with a ranking system. I've played several games for at least 10 years with ranking systems, and it's always the same. People get divided in 2 groups. Group 1 complains about elo hell. Group 2 realize they themselves are the problem and does something about it.
There is no such thing as ELO hell. Well there is, but only in your head.
Ok, sure, you can have a poor team, but your opponents are equally as bad, so you should have no problem beating them.

Also, unless you are playing at Platinum+, you shouldn't be too worried about team composition. You're better off having people play on heroes they are good at.
I actually took the time to do a comparison of stats with a sr 3978 player (named Combat and ranked among the highest on playing support) that plays Zenyatta alot in competitive.
He have played time 24 hours Zenyatta in comp this season, I have 18 hours, so not much difference.
Here it goes:

Eliminations average - Combat: 18.43 Me: 14.61 --- Combat wins
Objective kills average - Combat: 10.22 Me: 6.67 --- Combat wins
Objective time average - Combat: 1.33 mins Me: 1.10 mins --- Combat wins
Damage average - Combat: 11636 Me: 6840 --- Combat wins
Healing average - Combat: 9852 Me: 6308 --- Combat wins
Deaths average - Combat: 7.97 Me: 7.78 --- I win!
Weapon accuracy - Combat: 29% Me: 28% --- Combat wins
Crits average - Combat: 4% Me: 8% --- I win!
Final blows average - Combat: 4.76 Me: 5.10 --- I win!
Offensive assists average - Combat: 24 Me: 18 --- Combat wins
Defensive assists average - Combat: 26 Me: 18 --- Combat wins

So no surprise he beats me in pretty much everything. It s somewhat interresting to see I actually win over a top player in three categories:

I die less, I crit more and I finnish off enemies more often.
On top of that our aim percentage is almost identical.

All things considered I have a long way to go before I can compete with the best apparently, but considering I play at silver rank atm, these stats tell me that I actually belong alot higher.

Feel free to look up your own competitive Zenyatta stats for this season at Overbuff.com and compare with mine!
I suspect I will compare well with high gold/low plat players at the very least!
If you're a good player, you will rise. I threw my placements, got placed in gold, and am now in Master and still rising. All the while mostly solo queuing and maining Lucio.

Using your mic and making a fun/friendly atmosphere for your team is a bigger thing than you may think. You'd be surprised at how much better people play when there's no pressure to worry about.
I actually took the time to do a comparison of stats with a sr 3978 player (named Combat and ranked among the highest on playing support) that plays Zenyatta alot in competitive.
He have played time 24 hours Zenyatta in comp this season, I have 18 hours, so not much difference.
Here it goes:

Eliminations average - Combat: 18.43 Me: 14.61 --- Combat wins
Objective kills average - Combat: 10.22 Me: 6.67 --- Combat wins
Objective time average - Combat: 1.33 mins Me: 1.10 mins --- Combat wins
Damage average - Combat: 11636 Me: 6840 --- Combat wins
Healing average - Combat: 9852 Me: 6308 --- Combat wins
Deaths average - Combat: 7.97 Me: 7.78 --- I win! (Which is demonstrated by your lack of objective time, which is where games are won)
Weapon accuracy - Combat: 29% Me: 28% --- Combat wins
Crits average - Combat: 4% Me: 8% --- I win! (He kills a 3rd more than you,realise, solid damage is better than whiffed crit attempts)
Final blows average - Combat: 4.76 Me: 5.10 --- I win! (At his level, dps mop up, exponentially more so than at your rank)
Offensive assists average - Combat: 24 Me: 18 --- Combat wins
Defensive assists average - Combat: 26 Me: 18 --- Combat wins

So no surprise he beats me in pretty much everything. It s somewhat interresting to see I actually win over a top player in three categories:

I die less, I crit more and I finnish off enemies more often. because you
On top of that our aim percentage is almost identical.

All things considered I have a long way to go before I can compete with the best apparently, but considering I play at silver rank atm, these stats tell me that I actually belong alot higher.

Feel free to look up your own competitive Zenyatta stats for this season at Overbuff.com and compare with mine!
I suspect I will compare well with high gold/low plat players at the very least!


You are like 30 to 40 percent worse than him, and the 3 stats you think you win at, playing vs the players he deals with, you would NOT be anywhere near.

You are fighting against low skill players (your rank) and achieving worse than him at his rank vs players his skill. (One Genji player his rank would wipe you out every engagement) You don't see how bad that makes your stats look???

So you are absolutely nowhere near as good as him, you are as good as you, in your rank getting those statistics vs people of your same rank.

Ok,

Just move on, bro.

NIDCLXVI

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