We are all in ELO hell to stay apparently

General Discussion
15/12/2016 12:05Posted by Tollon
I actually took the time to do a comparison of stats with a sr 3978 player (named Combat and ranked among the highest on playing support) that plays Zenyatta alot in competitive.
Being able to do good stats at silver is not the same as doing the same stats at 4k SR.
I don't know about ELO hell but I do know that basing everything off those statistics websites is not a wise idea. There are 11 other people affecting those statistics and as a result those numbers will vary wildly from game to game.

Take healing for example:
    If you have an absolutely amazing team your healing for that game may be pretty low. However that says nothing about your skill as a healer.

    You may also have a team that simply cannot push the first choke point, taking a constant stream damage and allowing you to heal 20k+ for that game. Still says nothing about your skills as a healer.


In the end just take statistics with a pinch of salt (lol, get it?) and focus on your game; Discording the right targets, better positioning, sleeping the right target, etc.
This season I played with some people I met during a friendly atmosphere in competitive. When we play together we do alright, when I do solo and no one communicates then losses are more common. When you encounter someone willing to communicate during the competitive match, send a friend request or now new feature allows you to stay in group. We sort of advanced that way recently finding a really good group of players that communicates and are willing to switch between heroes if things go south, instead of just forcing the current composition. Someone said this in another topic already and it's entirely true, when you solo queue and are on a loosing streak, take a break. Because your mind set goes south and you start off a new match already thinking it's a loss (which is evident from your conclusion in the first post). Play few matches of quick play to regain your confidence and sort of relax.
Hi

i play for ps4 but its the same situation in there.
All my friends are around 2500 and complain they cant rank up even when they duo or triple q. i was in the same boat.
then i realize i need to improve my game play.
i took ana and went solo q. 1 month later im master and still going up. sometimes you get losing streak just dont mind it, its statical fact you lose games in row sometimes.
you just need to get better, its that simple. eventually you will go up in sr.
and no you dont get good in day or 2. it takes time...
There is a section on the forum for recruitment, join a clan, you will be able to have better game, with coordination, and more humor too
15/12/2016 09:06Posted by Klazik
15/12/2016 09:02Posted by Tollon
...

I play support. If my team dont make it to the objective - I dont make it to the objective. Thus I cant get objective time. SImple...

Play Lucio instead of Zen. Dance on that objective. If you can't do that, you are in the right place regarding your rank.


Only 1% player can survive more than 1 minute with lucio on Objective, even at my level.

He is not 1 v 6 character and his dance doesn't miraculously prevent him from melee, spam bullets, etc abx....
And this dude is clearly not DPSpanky.
15/12/2016 05:42Posted by Tollon
The previous two seasons I have played solo queue and picked heroes according to what I like to play and are skilled at playing.
I figured this is a good way to help my team by bringing my a game.
It wasnt always the "ideal" hero picks but I figured it's more helpful to the team if I play a hero that I master rather then a hero that I suck with.

Needless to say - this didnt work out well in the end. At the end of the seasons I had put in 50+ hours of playtime and ended up just about where I started the season or slightly lower.

So this third season I figured I must change something - I decided to try to pick hero last every game and always pick the hero that was needed for a good team composition, no matter how well I play it.

Something must be done in order to ever climb this rank and this was a good advice from experienced players.
Always help your team by making the composition the best possible!

I have now put in some serious hours in this season and guess where I am?
That's right - just about where I started. Nothing gained, just a little lost.

Even tho I mostly have played support this season (it's never a shortage of dps or tanks it seems) and gotten fairly good at doing so - there is just no way up the ranks if you solo queue!

I help the team all I can, I am a pretty good player, I dont troll, I am not toxic, I am in team chat trying to help my teammates - Yet I keep loosing rank.

It's simply a roullette of what players you get teamed up with that decides your fate.
Get decent players one game and win, get one troll next game and loose, get one leaver third game and loose, get a good team and win comfortably and then get a really bad player in team and loose again.

That's how the average 5 games you play look at at low gold rank , on average 2 wins and 3 losses, and there's nothing much you can do about it!

My conclusion - dont even try to help your team - just play what you enjoy and try to have fun. Rank up is not gonna happen no matter how hard you try apparently...


YOUR ATTITUDE IS WRONG.
And you will never ever climb higher than your mechanical skill deserves.
And rightfully so because you don't deserve it.

Why do you even play Zenyatta if you fully wanted to support your team?
Not saying Zen is bad but you played Zen and Zen only over 16 hours. That is saying something about you.
As long as you don't blame yourself for not being good enough, you will be stuck in elo hell.
I keep getting full idiot teams. Can't even get past 2300 this season. Best thing is the SR system punishes you for other people's stupidity.
15/12/2016 10:27Posted by Tollon
It would be interresting to see what stats a platinum or above Zenyatta main have this season. Just to compare. That would be a good way to see if the problem is actually with me playing Zenyatta badly or not.
But honestly I highly doubt that the problem is me playing badly.


As others have said before,

You are as good as you, in your rank getting those statistics vs people of your same rank.


Stats mean next to nothing because theres 11 other people in the game and unless you can work together you can rock your top 1% or w/e stats and still not win...

Your masteroverwatch doesnt have your comp stats
http://masteroverwatch.com/profile/pc/eu/Tollon-2972
So cant look at them and see how "high" you actually are But i can say it doesnt make a difference what SR/Rank you are you still get the same "nonsense" picks and "bad" players, but then theres an equal chance that they will be on the other team and you can stomp

PS: Solo-queue is brutal sometimes I agree, but even running as a 2man group will(assuming you both play different roles) give you a massive advantage if your goal is just to "rank up"
15/12/2016 13:28Posted by Deda
This season I played with some people I met during a friendly atmosphere in competitive. When we play together we do alright, when I do solo and no one communicates then losses are more common. When you encounter someone willing to communicate during the competitive match, send a friend request or now new feature allows you to stay in group. We sort of advanced that way recently finding a really good group of players that communicates and are willing to switch between heroes if things go south, instead of just forcing the current composition. Someone said this in another topic already and it's entirely true, when you solo queue and are on a loosing streak, take a break. Because your mind set goes south and you start off a new match already thinking it's a loss (which is evident from your conclusion in the first post). Play few matches of quick play to regain your confidence and sort of relax.


Now that was actually a good advice. Especially with the new stay as a group mechanice. Thanks man.
I dont know why you think I have the wrong mindset tho - I stated in the opening post that I dont get toxic and I play every game as a brand new one and give my best.

15/12/2016 15:24Posted by Starlord
There is a section on the forum for recruitment, join a clan, you will be able to have better game, with coordination, and more humor too


Thanks, I will check it out!

15/12/2016 16:12Posted by BlueBug
15/12/2016 05:42Posted by Tollon
The previous two seasons I have played solo queue and picked heroes according to what I like to play and are skilled at playing.
I figured this is a good way to help my team by bringing my a game.
It wasnt always the "ideal" hero picks but I figured it's more helpful to the team if I play a hero that I master rather then a hero that I suck with.

Needless to say - this didnt work out well in the end. At the end of the seasons I had put in 50+ hours of playtime and ended up just about where I started the season or slightly lower.

So this third season I figured I must change something - I decided to try to pick hero last every game and always pick the hero that was needed for a good team composition, no matter how well I play it.

Something must be done in order to ever climb this rank and this was a good advice from experienced players.
Always help your team by making the composition the best possible!

I have now put in some serious hours in this season and guess where I am?
That's right - just about where I started. Nothing gained, just a little lost.

Even tho I mostly have played support this season (it's never a shortage of dps or tanks it seems) and gotten fairly good at doing so - there is just no way up the ranks if you solo queue!

I help the team all I can, I am a pretty good player, I dont troll, I am not toxic, I am in team chat trying to help my teammates - Yet I keep loosing rank.

It's simply a roullette of what players you get teamed up with that decides your fate.
Get decent players one game and win, get one troll next game and loose, get one leaver third game and loose, get a good team and win comfortably and then get a really bad player in team and loose again.

That's how the average 5 games you play look at at low gold rank , on average 2 wins and 3 losses, and there's nothing much you can do about it!

My conclusion - dont even try to help your team - just play what you enjoy and try to have fun. Rank up is not gonna happen no matter how hard you try apparently...


YOUR ATTITUDE IS WRONG.
And you will never ever climb higher than your mechanical skill deserves.
And rightfully so because you don't deserve it.

Why do you even play Zenyatta if you fully wanted to support your team?
Not saying Zen is bad but you played Zen and Zen only over 16 hours. That is saying something about you.
As long as you don't blame yourself for not being good enough, you will be stuck in elo hell.


I am glad you decided to make your second ever post one that questions not only my skills but also my judgment. I think a true troll is born...

15/12/2016 20:44Posted by yeahimmad
I keep getting full idiot teams. Can't even get past 2300 this season. Best thing is the SR system punishes you for other people's stupidity.


Yes, in so many words - this is basically how it feels. My sr high is 2290 so I absolutely feel you man!

I dont know why you think I have the wrong mindset tho - I stated in the opening post that I dont get toxic and I play every game as a brand new one and give my best.


I didn't mean anything bad by it, just kinda felt your conclusion in the end of the first post was something I experienced after few consecutive losses. Don't feel like helping the team and have my own fun because it's probably going to be a loss.
I sunk so low this season but found really good people to play with recently and started climbing my way up again, best part of it we all shared the same experience so we choose to stick together in competitive since we work good together. I do queue solo sometimes and if it's a loss I just go to quickplay and wait till some of them get online so we group up and go in comp.
This may help as it has helped me and my friends in ranked games.

I do call outs for the team a LOT more than I used to and it is actually really helping. You might not realise it at first but maybe I can suggest you start doing that over comms ( I felt silly doing it more at first).

When I say call outs I mean every time we go for a push I recap who has used their ults on the enemy team, where I see them and how many ults we have up or almost up.
If I see someone flanking I call it, when I see myself or a team mate in trouble I call it and also when I think an enemy will use an ult I call it. <--- this last bit when you get a feel for it is a team saver!

Sometimes even if we know our skill level is a little less than the enemy, good call outs have helped us win, simply by being able to co-ordinate better.
16/12/2016 11:31Posted by Deda

I dont know why you think I have the wrong mindset tho - I stated in the opening post that I dont get toxic and I play every game as a brand new one and give my best.


I didn't mean anything bad by it, just kinda felt your conclusion in the end of the first post was something I experienced after few consecutive losses. Don't feel like helping the team and have my own fun because it's probably going to be a loss.
I sunk so low this season but found really good people to play with recently and started climbing my way up again, best part of it we all shared the same experience so we choose to stick together in competitive since we work good together. I do queue solo sometimes and if it's a loss I just go to quickplay and wait till some of them get online so we group up and go in comp.


I very much think this is the way to go and the best advice in this thread altogether.
I did as you adviced last night. After a few initial losses I finally ended up in a team that not only won, but totally dominated.
5 of us stayed together and we managed to get on a 5 game winning streak despite having the 6th random player beeing really bad in some games.

I think teaming up with other good players is the ONLY realistic way up to the level you belong at, at this moment.
Unless you are exceptionally lucky and keep getting good teammates or if you are soo good yourself that you can carry an entire team of mediocre to bad players, there is no realistic and dependable way up from the elo hell swamp you found yourself sinking knee deep into...
16/12/2016 11:51Posted by Oukanna
This may help as it has helped me and my friends in ranked games.

I do call outs for the team a LOT more than I used to and it is actually really helping. You might not realise it at first but maybe I can suggest you start doing that over comms ( I felt silly doing it more at first).

When I say call outs I mean every time we go for a push I recap who has used their ults on the enemy team, where I see them and how many ults we have up or almost up.
If I see someone flanking I call it, when I see myself or a team mate in trouble I call it and also when I think an enemy will use an ult I call it. <--- this last bit when you get a feel for it is a team saver!

Sometimes even if we know our skill level is a little less than the enemy, good call outs have helped us win, simply by being able to co-ordinate better.


This is helpful if you have teammates that want to win and are able to understand tactics.
Sadly, in too many games there is that instalock Hanzo (or equivalent, Hanzo is just an example) that just stand at one place and fires his arrow no matter what happens around him or what you call out.

You cant be angry at those players because you never know, it might be someone's kid that get to finally try this game out and play a game on his daddy's pc. He might not know what to do or help the team but he is having a really great time. Who can get angry at that?

It's what I always try to tell myself when I encounter a really bad player. That it might be a child playing. And that keeps me from getting toxic and angry. Because we are all beginners when we start out, right?
And what kind of jerk are you yourself if you curse and get angry at a child?

So dont get me wrong here, I aint toxic at bad players, I dont blame and flame them for beeing bad players. I dont care if they want to try Bastion on attack - I never question a hero pick.
After all this game is about having fun and if someone finds Bastion on attack fun, then so be it. Let them play it and have fun by all means!
Who am I to try to dictate to someone on how to play this game?

I am just frustrated at the fact that those bad players keep me from getting to play with players at my own skill level, that's it.
It's not any single players fault, it's more of a flaw in the game mechanic itself...
If you're not a bad player, then it's more likely the enemy team has more bad players than your team. It's no excuse.
Not ranked yet, but it doesn't require more than common sense to know why you don't climb. .
I will get back to this thread when I've played more ranked just to proove that there's no such thing as "elo hell". In every game ever I've played there's always some players complaining about the "elo hell". If you're good, you can climb out, if you suck, you go down with your ship. People just have problems accepting they are not "gosu" players with "l33t" skills. I play a lot of support, and if I have some team mates not getting to the payload because of a Widow sniping them, then I simply go kill her, and go back to the payload/objective. There are many ways to carry, but don't think you can relax for 1 second if you want to carry a "bunch of retards" or whatever you call them.


I promised I would get back to this thread after I played some more ranked, and whadda ya know. I WAS RIGHT

I ended in silver after placements. Now I'm less than 100 SR from plat. Your "elo hell" is not existing. It only exists for people who expect too much from themselves.
Anyone saying there is no such thing as elo hell really should walk a mile in my shoes. For real.

I just joined a game and my 5 teammates all instapicked different dps heroes.
I had to pick support and despite beeing totally owned, NO ONE in the team ever changed their hero pick.

So, all the elo hell deniers, please stop with the - "You are always at the rank you deserve to be" bs.
There is nothing I can possibly do to carry a team like that.

I also wrote down every leaver in all my matches over the last several days.
Result: Leavers in my team 80%, leavers in enemy team 20%.
Which basically means - 4 free losses and 1 free win.
There is nothing I can possibly do to fight statistics like that.

So: There is a elo hell and I am in it to stay apparently...!
16/12/2016 15:20Posted by Ploughjob
If you're not a bad player, then it's more likely the enemy team has more bad players than your team. It's no excuse.


Key word here is likely.
It's basically all chance you say.
If I am an average player I am left to the good teammate/bad teammate roll of the dize to settle wether I win or loose.

Well, in that case I haven't had much luck with that dize rolling.
Example: Of the last 20 leavers in all my matches, 16 have been from my team and 4 from enemy team.
Tell me how LIKELY I am to advance with statistics like that...
19/12/2016 06:59Posted by Klazik
Not ranked yet, but it doesn't require more than common sense to know why you don't climb. .
I will get back to this thread when I've played more ranked just to proove that there's no such thing as "elo hell". In every game ever I've played there's always some players complaining about the "elo hell". If you're good, you can climb out, if you suck, you go down with your ship. People just have problems accepting they are not "gosu" players with "l33t" skills. I play a lot of support, and if I have some team mates not getting to the payload because of a Widow sniping them, then I simply go kill her, and go back to the payload/objective. There are many ways to carry, but don't think you can relax for 1 second if you want to carry a "bunch of retards" or whatever you call them.


I promised I would get back to this thread after I played some more ranked, and whadda ya know. I WAS RIGHT

I ended in silver after placements. Now I'm less than 100 SR from plat. Your "elo hell" is not existing. It only exists for people who expect too much from themselves.


You dear sir - are a blatant lier.
I checked your stats out on masteroverwatch (http://masteroverwatch.com/profile/pc/eu/Klazik-2960)

U have played a total of 4 hours and 9 minutes competitive this season.
4 hours of playing Lucio to support your team and 9 minutes of Soldier76 and Symmetra combined.

The last 4 days you have gained a total sr of about 40 (from 2455 to almost 2500). Not much gained despite trying to support your team by picking Lucio all the time.

You are not only lying and trolling for some strange reason - you seem to also be in the very same situation that I described previously in this thread!

I too play alot of support (Zenyatta in my case) to try to help my team and yet I (just like you) gain almost no rank in the end.
Mostly because of bad teammates, trolls and leavers that makes me loose despite playing really well.

Stop beeing a lying delusional and read those four words I have for you:
elo
hell
is
real
don't worry mate stylosa told me rank doesn't matter

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