Counter Phara = A skill match up? Low elo issue

General Discussion
just play ana and shoot her down...
In fact, if Phara with bad aim fight every one else with bad aim, she win fight like 200%. So if you ask me im will be glad to see rework phara weapon, rebalance that give phara more reward for better aim AND more punishment for bad.
Something like splash damage nerf from 80-30 to 55-20,
and compensation for this
projectile speed increased from 28.5m/s to 36m/s. Have no idea how this be on practice,
15/01/2017 21:38Posted by Jimmyrustler
15/01/2017 21:33Posted by Eddiezeit
Haven't got too much experience on such ranks, but I'd imagine that Pharah players should not be that effective either (given their rank).

Are you sure they're not smurfing? Solo carrying on any hero is not a simple task, and it'd make sense that Pharahs on that rank would be alot easier to take down due to their positioning and likely inaccurate rockets. :o


I would actually say that pharah is one of the best heroes to smurf with since her mobility and long range dmg output make her very hard to kill and her kill confirming potential is good against disorganised teams. A pharah who is meant to be at this skill tier would still be hard to hit with the accuracy of players still even with just staying in mid air.


I totally agree on the smurfing part, awhile ago I made a topic (confession) of my smurfing experience when I wanted to play with some of my platinum friends. I made it from 1700 to 2900 in a single 16 win streak, but that's talking about someone who knows how to move, position and kill any squishy hero of that SR with two rockets.

But yeah, now that you mention it, it does make sense that she's still harder to hit in midair than the other heroes, no matter how she moves.
Got the point of the thread, it appears to be valid. o/
15/01/2017 16:08Posted by Hanzo
Non balance able anti fun hero?

Blizzard always wanted to make fun to play and play against heros but phara is for me the biggest anti fun hero.


You wanna know who's the biggest anti-fun hero for me? Roadhog. But that is for another thread.

Pharah has more counters than just soldier and mccree.

Tracer ( mid / close range )
Ana ( Although being a healer should not focus on pharah unless needed. )
bastion
widow

Are just a few examples.
15/01/2017 20:10Posted by Fracture
Her counters are D.va, Widow, Mccree, Solider and Ana. With 3 of these being picked frequently it can be very difficult for a Pharah to roam around freely and carry games. She is easy to kill if you have decent aim with a hit scan hero. She doesn't need a nerf.

OP, if there's a pharmercy airborne and people are targetting Pharah then that's your issue, you kill the support first in most situations, eliminate sustain and she'll be easier to pick. If you can't kill her then call out her location for your team.

Pharah's damage is not low either, she doesn't need a buff. She's perfectly fine how she is. She also does not need a brain dead counter just because you lack aim. That's pretty stupid.


i agree but its a wonder sometiles with an enemy phara can get away with sometimes even with those hero's on your team
15/01/2017 22:11Posted by Ninetales
Pharah has more counters than just soldier and mccree.

Tracer ( mid / close range )
Ana ( Although being a healer should not focus on pharah unless needed. )
bastion
widow

Are just a few examples.

Pharah is rarely close enough for Tracer to do anything. She can stay in the air practically permanently. I don't see how Tracer is going to kill a Pharah.

If you pick Bastion or Widow, you're likely just going to tilt your team. You also need to be good at Widow to deal with Pharah. Most players are not good enough at playing her to warrant that pick. Especially at lower ranks.

Ana is the best from this list, but as you said, you have to stop healing to kill Pharah. It's still better to do that if the Pharah is this good. The whole team needs to react to a Pharah that is carrying the game.

If you don't have one person that can deal with it, your team needs to pick heroes that are better suited to dealing with her. Soldier, McCree, D.Va, Roadhog, Ana, and Zenyatta could be a pretty good anti Pharah team.
Problem with Pharah in the lower ranks is more about mentality. People expect the Soldier to kill it, but they do not even shoot her when they have the chance. Most people simply ignore her and this is why she feels powerful. Also many people sticks to Junkrat when the opponent has a good pharah...
16/01/2017 07:18Posted by Zalan
Problem with Pharah in the lower ranks is more about mentality. People expect the Soldier to kill it, but they do not even shoot her when they have the chance. Most people simply ignore her and this is why she feels powerful. Also many people sticks to Junkrat when the opponent has a good pharah...

Yeah, Junkrat is picked so often in my rating. When I play tank or support I cry everytime. The DPS is picked by the first ones in the game, more often than not it contains of junkrat and pharah/soldier/reaper. In the last few games I didn't have one soldier on my team so you have absolutely nothing which can kill an enemy pharah. It's slightly off-topic but I hate ppl picking dps and then demanding 2-2-2 in team chat.
Being able to shoot at pharah doesnt make it a counter to pharah. That would mean that mccree counters everything since he can shoot at everything. I dont see how a tracer is supposed to kill a pharah.

The problem playing soldier is that when she is too far away she can hit you but your damage to her is extremely low and hard to hit. The Pharas know that soldier is "supposed" to counter her so they put all their spirit and being into targeting and hunting down the soldier specifically. If i am a soldier playing vs a good pharah almost my whole game revolves around detecting and disrupting phahra. Getting into good positions you have to run around like a boy scout nervous that she will find you first. Once you start shooting at her you will get rockets in return, and then you just have to move far away fast or you die. In the meantime she just hammers the rest of the team. Also while trying to target pharah you can get killed by other heroes, while pharah can solely focus on dropping bombs on people as long as the soldier isnt there.

Even in situations where she is supposed to be far out of her habitat she can be hard to kill, at very close range you start attacking her and she jumps into the roof while it requires her no aim to hit you. If you have less than a full mag and have to reload its just a disaster. And when you die you have to wait for a long time until your next chance to kill her. But you know, if its vs a pharah that positions herself poorly then its very easy to kill her, then its like a hard counter.

I dont think she should be nerfed or anything, i want all the heroes to feel strong when they are in their best environment, just that when she has this extreme mobility and damage there should exist some semi hard counter that doesnt mean you die half the time you try to take her out if shes equally as good as you.

But im low rated so maybe it becomes closer to a hard counter when you are better with soldier.
She is pretty much perfectly balanced.

Like many heroes, given the ideal circumstances, she can wreak havoc on a team not geared to counter her.

In many other conditions, she will get absolutely wrecked (especially with himscan heavy teams if not suppressed) and offer little value to the team.
16/01/2017 07:18Posted by Zalan
Problem with Pharah in the lower ranks is more about mentality. People expect the Soldier to kill it, but they do not even shoot her when they have the chance. Most people simply ignore her and this is why she feels powerful. Also many people sticks to Junkrat when the opponent has a good pharah...


This is so truth that it hurts.

@topic: i have more or less success with winston vs pharah. But it requires some practice. Jump + tesla, get her focus, shield for the cooldown of the jump and repeat.

But really its soldier 76 duty. Try to burst fire, you will end up doing more damage.
Just some ideas that I've seen used to counter her.
Widow and Ana, shoot till dead.
Roadhog hook either when she lowers to get someone or you find a way to get higher.
Symmetra/Reinhardt shields, she can kill herself and it will force her to stop firing.
Zenyatta Discord and teamwork; I do this one most often as Zenyatta. Tell the team she's discorded and all that low damage will mount up with the debuff on her.
Genji can even counter her if there's enough walls to climb up and dash at her whilst defleecting/star throwing.

Just like the whole game it all depends on teamwork. If no one is shooting at her you're gonna have a bad time, if everyone is hellbent on killing her that they ignore the other team you're gonna have a bad time.
Yes. Pharah is a skill issue - requiring aim. However, The primary issue with Pharah is a absolute need to pick between 1-2 characters to even have a chance to hit her. And two of those counters are rarely picked because they are not that good and get smashed by Soldier 76 and D'va.

With a game with 20+ characters, every should have around 4-5 counters. With at least 1 strong counter - meaning oh ^&*@, I might need to switch. It would be nice if Winston could grab airborne characters out the sky during his jump.
Best anti-Pharah heroes are 76, Ana, Widow, and Zenyatta. McCrees can do a passable job too, although it depends on map, so are a bit too open and allow her too much space. For the indoor areas, Sombra and Tracer give you something to worry about too.

The main issue people seem to have with her is looking up to start with, and they're not used to shooting in the Y axis - same issue they have with Genji.
16/01/2017 14:03Posted by MagicPants
Yes. Pharah is a skill issue - requiring aim. However, The primary issue with Pharah is a absolute need to pick between 1-2 characters to even have a chance to hit her. And two of those counters are rarely picked because they are not that good and get smashed by Soldier 76 and D'va.

With a game with 20+ characters, every should have around 4-5 counters. With at least 1 strong counter - meaning oh ^&*@, I might need to switch. It would be nice if Winston could grab airborne characters out the sky during his jump.


You need 1-2 Heros to have a chance and will this genji mains switch to mccree? i dont think so ^^

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