Brigitte is not balanced at all

General Discussion
I am playing OW for almost two years but never felt game to be so unbalanced ever before just because of one single hero. I know many people disagree with me. How a support hero should be able to destroy any DPS/Tank? Brigitte is close range hero just like reaper but reaper has no shield to protect himself from the incoming damage, still no problem we can take the shield down, which has 600freakingHP, so what's next, now time to fight, but you can't kill her easy because she can heal herself while in combat. I really want to understand what went through Blizzard developers mind when they were brainstorming this hero. A hero with 600 shield, can stun anyone including rein even when his shield is on (not even a Mccree can do it without a well placed stun), has lower cool down on stun than Mccree, can kill any high skill cap dps (Genji, Tracer) in close range without having to have any SKILLS, provide shield to team mates, heals everyone close range when beating enemy's DPS and Tanks to death. Seriously Blizzard! and you call it a support hero?
05/05/2018 02:40Posted by TwiZY
How a support hero should be able to destroy any DPS/Tank?
it's a brand new world.

(with Moira backing up that claim)

05/05/2018 02:40Posted by TwiZY
Brigitte is close range hero just like reaper but reaper has no shield to protect himself from the incoming damage
sorry, that's nonsense. Reaper is a anti-tank flanker. Brigitte is a anti-dive support/secondairy tank. Don't put themselves on equal footing. It would be like claiming Tracer is OP, because any other hero who works on the same distance doesn't have Recall.

05/05/2018 02:40Posted by TwiZY
you can't kill her easy because she can heal herself while in combat.
her healing (16 hps) is equal to that of what a Lucio gives people in his non amped up state (16.25 hps).

05/05/2018 02:40Posted by TwiZY
I really want to understand what went through Blizzard developers mind when they were brainstorming this hero.

There's a score of youtube videos you can look at. From developers talking & discussing her, to reviewers analying her & her weaknesses.

(for instance, interestingly, I think it was either Unit lost, or BTC, who suggested Winston against her - taking advantage of her lack of range/mobility, peeling at the other side of the enemy line)

Gogin on the forums complaing about her, is FAR for the best way to acchieve your goal
While I don't wanna start an argument, @Qube, I'm sorry, but are You delusional? Winston? Against a hero that lacks range? He literally is a close combat hero.

Not to mention the fact that Brigitte, with all her faults, just rips tanks apart.

Attack the other side? Sure, attack supports, or the tanks...anyone, really, she'll just show up, stun, and with her passive healing to everyone will **** You. And subsequently, Your team.
it's a brand new world.

(with Moira backing up that claim)


Moira can not destroy tanks. Maybe a noncharged zarya but that wouldn't be destroyed.

her healing (16 hps) is equal to that of what a Lucio gives people in his non amped up state (16.25 hps).


How is this an argument?
Brigitte just flails a few times and puts her shield up to let it heal and repeat. Stun stun stun and you are already dead.

05/05/2018 06:41Posted by Qube
for instance, interestingly, I think it was either Unit lost, or BTC, who suggested Winston against her


Winston pretty much loses against a Brigitte. Her healing is enough to prevent her from dying too early and she can simply spam all her abilities to win.
05/05/2018 06:41Posted by Qube
taking advantage of her lack of range/mobility, peeling at the other side of the enemy line)


I just read this. Did you know that Brigitte has a pretty long range for a melee hero?
I'd even say it's as long as Winstons but I can be wrong here. But the difference is not high.

05/05/2018 06:41Posted by Qube
Gogin on the forums complaing about her, is FAR for the best way to acchieve your goal


Do you imply that it's wrong to use the forums as a feedback for the game?
05/05/2018 02:40Posted by TwiZY
I am playing OW for almost two years but never felt game to be so unbalanced ever before just because of one single hero. I know many people disagree with me.


uhhhh... Mercy 2.0?
05/05/2018 16:02Posted by 분노조절장애폭발
uhhhh... Mercy 2.0?

i think there was a lot when the game released and then they changed the worst offenders but didn't change everyone, and then added some new heroes that was really strong at release and then got nerfed to only be good in the right hands.

probably will happen sooner or later to most heroes.
05/05/2018 14:37Posted by JokrLuce
While I don't wanna start an argument, @Qube, I'm sorry, but are You delusional? Winston? Against a hero that lacks range? He literally is a close combat hero.
IKR, but it's not me who suggested it. I follow a few overwatch channels (unit lost, BTC, your overwatch, ... not really 'bronze players' ) and I heared it being suggested (I just don't remembe which one).

I know he's a close combat hero, but he's also a high mobility hero. The reasoning was, to counter Briggite: attack where she is not. After all, at higher tiers, you stop reasoning in the form of 1v1, but 6v6. If she's on the left, attack the flanker on the right. If she's at the front, go kill the mercy in the backline.

It's not a matter of "well, if we pit Winston vs Brigitte" but more of a "if Winston is able to kill half the team 'cause Brigitte never got close to 'm, even With Brigitte, you're not gonna win a 3v6"

Dunno how practical it would be - I'm far from the skill level of the channels I follow - but I did think "hey, that's actually an interesting point". It certainly isn't one I would have thought of myself.

05/05/2018 15:32Posted by Toupher
How is this an argument?
How do you mean "how is this an argument" ?

CLAIM: "you can't kill her easy because she can heal herself while in combat."
FACT: she can at best heal herself at 16 hps (or 0 if she's not attacking, but lets presume she does)
CONTEXT: Lucio gives 16.25 hp in his base state to his entire team - making the frequency of facing heros with 16.25hps when the enemy has a Lucio quite frequent. Other healers heal even more, but considering their healing is more focussed to usually one player, the frequency of facing a hero with such a hps is less.
FACT: a lot of people still die, despite having Lucio's 16.25 hps, (lets face it, while 16.25 > 0, Lucio would be OP as **** if even his base state had a significant impact on combats)
DEDUCTION: within the context of overwatch 16 hps isn't much.
CONCLUSION: the OP is overreacting.
If you can't kill her because she's got 16 hps, you ain't going to kill anyone if the enemy team got a Lucio - cause then everyone has 16.25 hps ( or >40 hps! )

I just read this. Did you know that Brigitte has a pretty long range for a melee hero?
top of my head? IIRC 6 meters for her basic mellee or 20m for her whipshot. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

05/05/2018 15:48Posted by Toupher
Do you imply that it's wrong to use the forums as a feedback for the game?
wrong use? I dunno.
most likely usesless? Yes.

Considering what he wants feedback from the developers, and they don't really post here much.
IKR, but it's not me who suggested it. I follow a few overwatch channels (unit lost, BTC, your overwatch, ... not really 'bronze players' ) and I heared it being suggested (I just don't remembe which one).


you could argue that winstons mobility can out play a brigitte as in positioning.
but i think he could be a good punching bag, as in jumping her makes her either have to swing or run because her shield does nothing to his primary fire and he can body block all the stuns and cc for his team mates and negate her self heal, making it much easier for the rest of your team to deal with her while you entertain her.

but in a 1v1 winston should just get out of dodge.
winston is a distraction tool most of the time, a space creator or a menace to the backline.

but as for all tanks, you need a team.
How do you mean "how is this an argument" ?

CLAIM: "you can't kill her easy because she can heal herself while in combat."
FACT: she can at best heal herself at 16 hps (or 0 if she's not attacking, but lets presume she does)
CONTEXT: Lucio gives 16.25 hp in his base state to his entire team - making the frequency of facing heros with 16.25hps when the enemy has a Lucio quite frequent. Other healers heal even more, but considering their healing is more focussed to usually one player, the frequency of facing a hero with such a hps is less.
FACT: a lot of people still die, despite having Lucio's 16.25 hps, (lets face it, while 16.25 > 0, Lucio would be OP as **** if even his base state had a significant impact on combats)
DEDUCTION: within the context of overwatch 16 hps isn't much.
CONCLUSION: the OP is overreacting.
If you can't kill her because she's got 16 hps, you ain't going to kill anyone if the enemy team got a Lucio - cause then everyone has 16.25 hps ( or >40 hps! )


It doesn't matter how much she heals herself. That wasn't his point. And I already told you even if this number is rather low she can just shield herself until she is fully healed.

top of my head? IIRC 6 meters for her basic mellee or 20m for her whipshot. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)


So? My point was that winston has no chance against her and you tell me that she has a 6m range, which tells me nothing if you are not including winstons range as well, and even if you did, it wouldn't be an argument because it just explains if winstons has a slightly longer range or not.
You are just like Star (the one who you keep defending) who misses all the actual points.

05/05/2018 17:37Posted by Qube
wrong use? I dunno.
most likely usesless? Yes.

Considering what he wants feedback from the developers, and they don't really post here much.


Saying it's wrong to post on forums is just retarded.
i find it ridiculous that Brigitte has a quite high damage output for a healer with a shield to protect her from everything and everyone as she has her shield bash and a knock back swing and of course her ult which all together make her quite very durable where as all other support eg: Ana who break like a twig if they get dived without support of their team.. i find it ridiculous that its really hard to win games just because this one hero exist in the enemy team.. i'm not only complaining about the fact that i'm losing majority of my placement games due to the enemy team having a Brigitte but also because pros and people in higher ranks are having difficulties with this hero. Please i love this game don't let her ruin it..
I'm 50/50 on her. I think she's a nice addition to deal with the obnoxious loner-classes, but getting your ult interrupted by a shield-stun is not very fun.

The real complaint is that she's a bit of a tank in her own right and if there's an actual tank along with another healer in the vicinity, then she's tough to deal with.
I think most of the complaints stem from people not being able to 1 vs 1 her, which is not a good way to play Overwatch in general. You really need to coordinate with others.

Ways to counter her:
tl;dr - Outranging her is easiest.

Offense:
Good:
Pharah - Hard counter. She deals well with the shield/armor and should be way out of range. Push her off ledges for lulz.
Sombra - Hard counter. No shield, no abilities, all dead.
^ These are probably your best bet to make a Brigitte cry.

Meh:
Doomfist from a non-front angle. A full right-click against a wall kills her.
Even if you come head on (provided she doesn't have her stun or shift), that's nearly enough to take her down, and then you just shoot her once.
It's not an outright counter, but it's a good way to kill her fast, which is otherwise very hard.

Soldier 76 and Reaper - Decent against her.
McCree - May the quickest stunner win.

Beyond terrible:
Genji and Tracer - There's this thing called a "crying closet", you should look it up.

Defense:
Good:
Junkrat - Shreds her shield in no time, leaving her vulnerable.
Bastion - Same as Junkrat and is resistant to her shift, but the lack of mobility is the obvious downfall.
Meh:
Hanzo/Widowmaker - Dat shield tho'. At least you're out-ranging her, amirite?
Bad:
Mei/Torbjörn - Both are kind of bad against her, Mei less so.

Tanks:
Reinhardt - If he still can't stun her with his ult, while her shield is up, then that should be fixed ASAP. He can beat her by just hammering away, which is nice.
Winston - can sort-of-kind-of duel her and makes for a nice and beefy distraction for others to take her down.
Generally I wouldn't bother trying with a tank and just focus on other targets instead.

Support:
Meh:
Ana - Bio'nade is pretty nifty, but other than that she's not doing much.
Moira - can duel her somewhat due to her high mobility and negative orb to hit around the shield, but she'll lose eventually. Makes for a good distraction though.
Lucio - Your best bet is to learn how to kill with dat boi's knockback into a pit or off a ledge. With her shield up, she's a slow target and he's fairly mobile - Just don't hit the shield... 'cause that doesn't work.

Bad:
Zenyatta - Well, at least you can debuff her and make it easier for others.

No:
Mercy/Symmetra - No.
IIRC 6 meters for her basic mellee or 20m for her whipshot. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)


Did you know that Brigitte has a pretty long range for a melee hero?
I'd even say it's as long as Winstons but I can be wrong here. But the difference is not high.


Winston's range is 8 meters, Brigitte's is 6. The difference is negligible.
05/05/2018 18:04Posted by Toupher
It doesn't matter how much she heals herself. That wasn't his point. And I already told you even if this number is rather low she can just shield herself until she is fully healed.
Yeah, except of course I was adressing the OPs point. To quote

"you can't kill her easy because she can heal herself while in combat."

Do any of those word spell shield? Didn't think so.

Don't complain something isn't an argument because it doesn't adress something it wans't ment to adress.

05/05/2018 18:04Posted by Toupher
Saying it's wrong to post on forums is just retarded.
Oh, sure.

But you are the only one here talking how it is or isn't wrong to do so. I never made such claim. I'm mearly adressing the efficiency.
05/05/2018 22:16Posted by Qube
Oh, sure.

But you are the only one here talking how it is or isn't wrong to do so. I never made such claim. I'm mearly adressing the efficiency.


I did not say it's wrong. What the hell?
You said it's useless.

Yeah, except of course I was adressing the OPs point. To quote

"you can't kill her easy because she can heal herself while in combat."

Do any of those word spell shield? Didn't think so.

Don't complain something isn't an argument because it doesn't adress something it wans't ment to adress.


And you answered that she heals 16 Hp/s.
Wow what a deep argument that says nothing. You gave him more info of the heal but nothing else.

I also sometimes have the feeling that you are Star himself.
For me the main reason why Brigitte is hard to beat is because people will simply let her kill you. I have been in multiple games now where a Brigitte would waltz into our ENTIRE team and would systematically start killing us one at a time because as I have said multiple times on the forum, the general community has the map awareness of a potato.
05/05/2018 22:29Posted by Toupher
I did not say it's wrong. What the hell?
You said it's useless.
No, I said it is most likely useless.

That is same difference between saying "Jeff doesn't post on these forums" and "Jeff usually doesn't post on these forums".

There's a difference between being realistic about the dev's team posting habbits on these forums, versus claiming something is wrong.

You gave him more info of the heal but nothing else.
which was what he was talking about. It is called "adressing the issue at hand". You should try it sometimes.

I also sometimes have the feeling that you are Star himself.
cool story bruh.
Fellas, this don't make either of you look good. Constant back-and-forth won't help, 'specially since both of you are going away from the initial subject.
05/05/2018 18:08Posted by Theforge
i find it ridiculous that Brigitte has a quite high damage output for a healer with a shield to protect her from everything and everyone as she has her shield bash and a knock back swing and of course her ult which all together make her quite very durable where as all other support eg: Ana who break like a twig if they get dived without support of their team.. i find it ridiculous that its really hard to win games just because this one hero exist in the enemy team.. i'm not only complaining about the fact that i'm losing majority of my placement games due to the enemy team having a Brigitte but also because pros and people in higher ranks are having difficulties with this hero. Please i love this game don't let her ruin it..


I love this game and played this game more than any other game till date but Brigitte has officially killed it for me. I don't even feel like logging in. I am looking for an alternative now. I enjoyed OW a lot though, might come back if they redo Brigitte while not being half drunk.
Brigitte is the answer to the demons that have been created.
Dive / Flanks.
The heroes that fall in those pools made the longest meta in the history of this game that ran 1.5 years.

The game was becoming a lackluster from the players point of view, and also from a viewing point of view for OWL, because it was the same old thing over and over again.

Brig wasn't the only hero to fix this, there were changes to other heroes that enabled it. But Brig's origin came out from the need to fix a pattern in this game whereby Dive and Flank heroes stood supreme. After Brig came out Tracers are still playing around, but have been made considerably less effective, and Dives have also been made outdated and old school.

So strictly speaking Brig wouldn't even exist if not for the Dive and Flank problem that has plagued this game for long enough. I'm glad we are past those.

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