Is it just me or does LotV feel... Non-StarCraft-y?

Campaign and Story
Possible spoilers ahead.

So, before I get started, I want to make it clear that I love StarCraft and StarCraft lore. I've played through WoL about 13+ times (and I am considering doing that again), HotS 4 times and I just finished playing through LotV about an hour ago (marathoned through the whole thing). Regretfully, I am not sure if I'll play it again. I don't know if it's just me but LotV felt... weird. It somehow lacked the StarCraft feel to it.

Why?

Well, let's get started. So - at first we get the prologue with Zeratul. All is fine, that definitely felt like StarCraft to me. It flowed naturally. Then Zeratul went to Artanis to warn him about invading Aiur. "Stop Artanis, you'll mess up.", "It's OK Zeratul, I want to mess up.". Artanis then proceeds to mess up and a ton of people die. Now, that actually also felt very natural for the StarCraft universe - the Protoss were always way too prideful for their own good, so it seemed plausible for them to sign their own death sentences. What happens afterwards is weirder. Now, apparently Amon can not only infiltrate, but also control the entirety of the Khala. How? I don't know. He just can. That's OK. The Dark Templar are obviously immune to such control. Naturally, this leads to Zeratul fighting Artanis and... dying? I don't know how many of you've played SC1, but back then Zeratul was essentially an unstoppable killing machine (as to Zeratul's transformation from a deadly Dark Templar into essentially a fortune teller, that'd be another story entirely) and if I recall correctly Artanis didn't count for much. Apparently throughout the years Artanis managed to completely surpass Zeratul in power. OK, that's actually fine too. Artanis recovers the Spear of Adun and all that stuff, then they are in space and all is good. Now, where do things start to go wrong?

Apart from the extremely episodic feel of the different planet missions (which felt like many small stories instead of parts of a single big one), some of the mission seemed to make no logical sense. For instance, hte Moebius mission - why even bother going to that facility? Wasn't it stated in WoL that there are hundreds of those facilities scattered throughout the galaxy? Or the Shakuras mission - it was enough to disable the warp gates and the Zerg would be stuck on the planet without the means to leave, just like on Aiur. Was it really necessary to blow it up? Also, why blow it up by using the temple when according to that Tal'Darim executor, the Spear of Adun is more than capable of obliterating a planet. The Ulnar missions felt ridiculous due to the storytelling and cinematics (for example Kerrigan getting thrown around by a hybrid and then Artanis, of all people, kills it, even though Kerrigan is supposedly much stronger?). The Tal'Darim missions were masterfully done though - they were great and I really enjoyed them. It was one of the parts where the game had some original dialogue and some interesting developments, in contrast to the rest. The part with the Purifiers was OK too - the story was intriguing, alas the dialogue was somewhat bland. I didn't like the mission design, but it was original so I'd have to say that objectively it had some of the better missions.

So, where did it go really wrong? Hands down, the last mission and the epilogue. I seriously chuckled when I realised that the final mission was going to be an almost complete carbon copy of the final mission of WoL, with some changed variables. There were other noteworthy aspects that were quite bad (most of the moments involving Kerrigan - it feels as if the story was really one huge fanfic created by Kerrigan's number one fan; also the ending cutscene was pretty funny when they mention how Mengsk was removed from power three years ago, but the current emperor is another Mengsk. Amazing progress), however the epilogue felt like it was on an entire new level - near immortal zerg-psi-gods that need to be killed twice in order to die are laid siege by an advance guard... and beaten. How they get beaten is even more amusing though - Kerrigan gains yet another mega ultra power-up (the second one in a second consecutive campaign. It seems Kerrigan's power is meant to grow exponentially with time) and from there on she just breezes through the ancient "gods". Also, Tassadar doesn't exist. The part where the Xel'Naga nonchalantly transferred his power to Kerrigan with little reason in a typical Zerg fashion (even though apparently purity of form (Protoss) and purity of essence (Zerg) were supposed to merge in order to create a Xel'Naga, not give Xel'Naga power juice to the purity of essence) was intriguing at best. From there on it's just the same story as in HotS - Kerrigan uses her overwhelming godlike powers to decimate the bad guy. The sad thing was that Mengsk actually put up more of a fight against Kerrigan than Amon - at least he managed to click that one button and shock her a bit, whereas in contrast Amon just stood and took the "lazerz" (Speaking of lazers, the Tal'Darim Void Ray is SICK) in the face like a champ. At the point where this kind of mega death powers started getting introduced, I actually thought to myself "Is this actually happening? Is this really a part of LotV?". Considering that SC2 had mostly stuck to maintaining somewhat of a realistic image of a sci-fi universe, this was more like high fantasy.

How does that make it feel... non-StarCrafty? Well, the dialogue, the cinematics, the story and some of the mission design possessed nothing like what you'd expect to find in a strategy game. IMHO this felt much more like some sort of an RPG game than an RTS. I won't pretend that SC1 was the zenith of gaming, the one shining star to ever illuminate the scene, because it wasn't - it was flawed. The dialogue was sometimes cringeworthy and the story was somewhat nonsensical - Kerrigan betrayed everyone multiple times yet everyone kept believing her. It had flaws like that. Yet, it was a very strong product overall because of the political feeling into it - you could align with any faction and they would all have their own ups and downs, their good and their evil parts. While some faction like the Zerg were clearly shown to be more malicious, things were much more neutral. There never was a "bad guy". Only a "loser guy". That added a very grey feel to the game, instead of the usual black and white. Amon's introduction basically ruined that by providing us the "ultimate baddie" that requires everyone to band up. The complete makeover of some characters like Mengsk into villains didn't really help either (the Dominion was always ruthless, but not stupid dictator killing his own people for no purpose ruthless). Not only that, but the strategic fights and battles had little meaning, as ultimately everything was decided by god tier battles between two sides - Kerrigan and the fodder that was meant to be crushed.

It'd be happy to know your opinions on this. Hopefully it's not really just me that's got something wrong. If it is just me, then I'd love to see things through a new perspective so please do still leave your explanation. I will try to look into it with an open mind.
There is a big change in focus but I think SC was always a mix of sci-fi and fantasy so it can go both ways honestly. The last time it was the UED, now it was Cthulhu, doesn't make much of a difference.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
I've played through WoL about 13+ times (and I am considering doing that again), HotS 4 times and I just finished playing through LotV about an hour ago (marathoned through the whole thing). Regretfully, I am not sure if I'll play it again.

Same here. The missions are very alike, the story unbelievable, most characters bland and stereotypical.
Too much fantasy in a sci-fi world for me to like it. I mourned and buried LotV, don't want to spend more time discussing it. Multiplayer is fine as always though.
I agree with many of these points.
Also, the cheesy turn-into-dust death animation of Zeratul. Another user already compared it to Yoda's death in Star Wars, but personally it reminded me more of Professor Xavier's death in one of those !@#$ty X-Men movies, or Voldemort in Harry Potter.
LAME.
And then later on, When God-Kerrigan kills Amon and he starts to crackle with light... yeah, you guessed it, that's X-Men too https://youtu.be/f92xD4oYx_c?t=156
On some points I agree and on some I don't.

I will start from the end, concerning Starcraft and Brood War. Starcraft had a gritty, down-to-earth feel and plot to it. The humans are rednecks and degenerates. The Confederacy are the bad "gubment". The idealistic freedom fighter turns out to be just another power hungry, unscrupulous terrorist and wanna be emperor.

The Zerg seemed to only want to take over worlds and consume creatures to fuel their never ending evolution cycle. I wasn't sure back then why the overmind needed Kerrigan, but it was made apparent later.

Jim Raynor had a monobrow and was definitely not the pretty boy, wide-jaw, warcraft prooportions hero he is in SC 2. And his arms feel out of proportion - somehow too short but with the fists being too big.

The Protoss were a "prouid warrior race" trope, culturally inspired by ancient Roman society mixed with Indian castes. Lots of infighting, lots of short sightedness, bigotry and pride. All good. how they lost their homeworld to the space bugs that are the Zerg, even when divided, is stil a bit of an a$$pull. I liked that one line of dialogue from Alarac: "So these are the Zerg who defeated you? Tell me, did they leap up and chew on your starships?" That made me laugh out loud literally. Such irony.

Now then, yes, Kerrigan betrayed everywone but they had to play with her why? Choose the evil you know over the evil you don't. The UED had a pet Overmind and had taken control of most of the Dominion capital ships and more importantly - their shipyards. With the Protoss kicked out of Auir, the UED would dominate the sector. So they needed Kerrigan and her rabid zerg swarm. Then they allied and tried to take her on, but they failed.

Now, here's a plothole for you: where was this Golden Armada during those days? I remember Aldaris saying in the first BW mission "Without the conclave to guide us, or the protection of our great fleets, it seems we must fend for ourselves." Yeah right. No great fleets, except for that one great fleet that later on will become the primary army for the bad guy. Oh, and apart from the Spear of Adun, which you could have easily activated the moment the Zerg made planetfall. That same Spear of Adun that has thousands of templars in stasis, waiting to fight. And apart from the motherships, one of which has a purifier beam we must escape from in WoL. And apart from the capital ship which blew up Mar Sara in Starcraft. And apart from the capital ship of the Purifiers which also blew up a planet.

Oh, wait...

See, the original story actually does make sense. it's the stuff they added in SC2 that makes it seem pants-on-head retarded. the original story was about "there aren't many real heroes, most of them are just a$$holes" and power struggles, betrayal, slaughter and so on.

SC2:

WoL was basically "a few good men" fighting the "big evil empire" and then suddenly going on a wild quest to get the McGuffin to save the damsel in distress. Even though we got plenty of McGuffin missions perviously (Get the Khaldarian crystals for the overmind. Get the Uraj. Get the Khalis. Get to the Temple. Get to da choppa! and so on). Oh, we also have a "hold out until dropships arrive" mission, copied from SC1. We also have a "rescue the general from his crashed battlecrusier", copied from SC1 (but Duke was a much better character than Warfield. Even his name sounds like an a$$pull. he's a general, he can't possibly have a regular surname. it has to be Warfield).

The climax is the base defence mission, the only one that makes sense. So we rescue the damsel in distress.

Except that here comes HotS and she re-zergifies to "save Jim". Why couldn't Valarian spring him? Or Sarah as an extremely gifted psionic ghost? With the help of the Raiders? At the end of WoL the Raiders had enough manpower to save their own commander. Anyway she rezergifies and does stuff because reasons and she saves the mansel in distress, but he is angry at her because he can't have sexy time with her any more (too many spikes and claws and such). Then we get to own the hybrid and Duran, and we've been waiting for that since SC1 and the bonus mission with Zeratul.

Except that we don't really accomplish anything. Duran/Narud/whomever he is is just a mook. All the hybrid we kill as kerrigan and her swarm? Apparently not enough, since they continue to thrash everyone until mid LotV campaign. So basically kerrigan just killed Duran/Narud. But not really.

Well, during this time surely the swarm grew really powerful, right? All that evolving, all that hatching? Reclaiming char? Unifiing the broods, calling all broodmothers with the power of her mind? Many zergs, much wow.

Well, not really. It turns out Kerrigan's swarm magically disappears, and that Amon suddenly has 10x the number of Zerg she has. The Swarm is reduced to a few pitiful bases and Zagara playing bad base defence. If they had stayed true to the lore of SC:BW (where Kerrigan took 12 years to hatch billions of Zerg, remember? She took a break after BW which allowed Mengsk to rebuild the Dominion from the brink of destruction) and to the lore of HotS, kerrigan should have been able to DROWN Aemon in zerg. He should have had Zerglings crawling out of every orifice that exists on his Chuthlu-esque carcass. Because that's another thing that was disappointing - Xel'Naga design. They're basically the faceles ones from Warcraft.

Seriously blizzard, you need separate art teams for your games. Warcraft proportions, warcraft shoulder plates, warcraft floating rocks and warcraft octopus faces belong in Warcraft. Not Starcraft.

So anyway the Protoss apparently found a Golden Armada somewhere (boy, that golden armada thing sure would have been helpful when Tassadar was gunning for the Overmind) and want to take their toys back from a bunch of "feral" zerg on Aiur. Because totally Kerrigan had so many Zerg she didn't need to round up these stragles, right?

Anyway, then plot happens and we are once more "a few good men" on the run and fighitng the "big empire". We need time to build up our forces and all that.

We get another base defence mission, because why not? Oh, and during this base defence mission we learn that half of the protoss campaign from SC:BW was useless, because we don't actually NEED the Uraj and the Khalis. We don't even need a Templar and a Dark Templar to mix their templar juices together to make little xel naga babies or whatever they did in teh temple back then to eradicate the Zerg on Shakuras.

Wait. Wait. Wait. What happened last time? The zerg followed us to Shakuras by using our own Warpgates. Rgiht. We had to get the McGuffins to do the plot thing to do the base defence mission so that we can burn them all off the face of Shakuras. So, who'se bright idea WAS IT to leave the warp gates open? Wasn't Auir abandoned? I am confus.

So anyway we blow up the deathstar, I mean shakuras, and we go to gather allies to fight the big evil. We gather our allies, unitied we are stronger, we shall fight as one and all that jazz. The purifier spaceship can purfy (ie. nuke) an entire planet from orbit. Boy, that sure would be useful wjhen we need to eradicate that hybrid facility, right? Oh, OK then it was just for illustartive purposes.

And after Blizzard showing us that we are all one species, that racism and bigotry are bad, that castes and class sepraration are bad and that we should all unite and obey our supreme overlords so that we progress as a species, we get to do yet more timed missions and base defence missions. Not one mission in this entire game is just "build some bases, get some units, kill enemies". it's all on timers, it's all objective based, and half of them are defend this or hold out until that happens.

Apparently the void is just a planet with pink mist on it adn Amon can conjure shadow things that take the form of units of all 3 races. And Kerrigan becomes a Xel'Naga, but retains her humanesque features. She actually looks like a Solar from DnD, or an angel from any abrahamic religion. How is she the most pure zerg when she still has a terran face is beyond me. Anyway your allies are always useless, it doesnt' matter which race you're playing as in teh epilogue, the other two are always mongoloids who build only a handful of units and basically are just there to distract the enemy units from your base. Facepalm.

Kerrigan turned into a God Sue at the end. She had the extreme psionic power as a Terran, got infested, got de-infested, got re-infested and then she drained some Xel'Naga mojo. But she looked human. That's not right. Is that the catch, then? She has the power of a Xel'Naga but still thinks like a Terran? She has the "cosmos at her fingertips" but she can't get over Jim Raynor whom she had some fling with 15 years ago?
I personally liked the Xel'Naga design. I thought they were cute...
To sum it up, SC2 feels more like fantasy story of bad fan fiction level. SC1 was science fiction.

Also I can't get over this artefact thing. You need to kill Zerg in huge batches? Sure, it can do that. Oh, now you need to de-infest an infested human. Of course it can do that. You want to resurrect a Xel'Naga? Sure, no problem. You want to stun Terran units? We've got that covered as well. You need a navigation map to find a place that probably doesn't exist? We have an answer right here. You need a temporary prison for almighty powerful creature that got resurrected and currently controls the Khala? We have that sweet comfy prison in there too.

I wonder if you can also grind oranges on that as well.
@Myth
Oh my, that text of yours, it got me so bad. I never read text walls, but yours... It is so perfect. Do you mind if I quote you if occasion arise, for the pityful images that my own brain is able to produce are so inferior to that magnifice that you produced?

Thanks for the feel.

PS SC LotV is the last game I preordered ever. SC has immunity compared to other games because I will hardly ever stop playing its multiplayer (though I might reconsider if they will put elves and bows into game), but gaming industry these days seems to make very casual products only. Piratebay first, buy second should be a golden rule.
My points, I agree with the end wad bad. Amon who actually killed almost all Xel'Naga by himself ~ killed the gods of the protoss and the zerg is dying to a little arrogant girl and lose to they creations, to the protoss.
And the last where Amon was just talking and didn't do anything... Lol.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
I don't know. He just can.

It altered it like it altered the Overmind.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
, this leads to Zeratul fighting Artanis and... dying?

Yes. Artanis had more power due to Amon's control, possibly. Zeratul was older (I doubt that was the reason) and didn't find another way to rescue Artanis. His sacrifice was not in vain as the Khalai wouldn't have wanted a Nerazim leader. Artanis had to be saved at all costs.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
as to Zeratul's transformation from a deadly Dark Templar into essentially a fortune teller, that'd be another story entirely

Fortune teller is a bit too much. Do not forget the missions where he actually plays his DT role at its fullest.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
Apparently throughout the years Artanis managed to completely surpass Zeratul in power.

Amon's rage through him.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
Wasn't it stated in WoL that there are hundreds of those facilities scattered throughout the galaxy?

You mean like the countless moons Duran talked about in BW? Maybe the protoss did not know of the others... I dunno'.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
Or the Shakuras mission - it was enough to disable the warp gates and the Zerg would be stuck on the planet without the means to leave, just like on Aiur.

How to get there? The place was already overrun (somehow) by zerg and hybrid.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
Was it really necessary to blow it up?

NO. How did they even do that? I think Aiur was filled with more Amon's minions than Shakuras anyway.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
Also, why blow it up by using the temple when according to that Tal'Darim executor, the Spear of Adun is more than capable of obliterating a planet

Wasn't at full capacity yet? The synthetic star was not completely operational?
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
Kerrigan getting thrown around by a hybrid and then Artanis, of all people, kills it, even though Kerrigan is supposedly much stronger?

Kerrigan is not invincible. She probably fought her way through the caverns. Maybe her energy was low at that point.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
Also, Tassadar doesn't exist.

He did back in the Original game.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
even though apparently purity of form (Protoss) and purity of essence (Zerg) were supposed to merge in order to create a Xel'Naga, not give Xel'Naga power juice to the purity of essence

True and also Kerrigan was terran too.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
Considering that SC2 had mostly stuck to maintaining somewhat of a realistic image of a sci-fi universe, this was more like high fantasy.

Not really. They decided to go meta on the physics.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
IMHO this felt much more like some sort of an RPG game than an RTS

To me HotS was less a StarCraft and more a Warcraft III than LotV.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
Amon's introduction basically ruined that by providing us the "ultimate baddie" that requires everyone to band up.

It wasn't bad. It was considered so by the others that did not share its view.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
but the strategic fights and battles had little meaning,

I agree with this because of the prophecy. If the prophecy wasn't, then I wouldn't agree.
23/11/2015 08:31Posted by Valerie
Also, the cheesy turn-into-dust death animation of Zeratul.

We still have to see dying protoss. In the first game I thought they actually died like spirits but they actually warped back.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
I wasn't sure back then why the overmind needed Kerrigan, but it was made apparent later.

The manual explains it.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
Such irony

You mean like the Overmind coming with the Swarm consisting of billions and billions of zerg versus probably not more than 1 million protoss?
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
where was this Golden Armada during those days?

Built between BW and WoL?
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
Oh, and apart from the Spear of Adun, which you could have easily activated the moment the Zerg made planetfall.

True.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
And apart from the capital ship which blew up Mar Sara in Starcraft.

Maybe it was destroyed by the zerg. Strangely, I don't remember them using the Purifier Mothership on Aiur.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
It turns out Kerrigan's swarm magically disappears, and that Amon suddenly has 10x the number of Zerg she has.

She didn't even try to get the zerg out of Aiur or at least control them for her.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
kerrigan should have been able to DROWN Aemon in zerg.

They should have psionically fought for control over the zerg.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
Because totally Kerrigan had so many Zerg she didn't need to round up these stragles, right?

Apparently so.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
we don't actually NEED the Uraj and the Khalis.

They were consumed in the blast.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
We don't even need a Templar and a Dark Templar to mix their templar juices together

Well, Artanis had both a warp blade and a psionic blade (without nerve cords, somehow). I guess that somehow qualifies.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
Wasn't Auir abandoned? I am confus.

I think the Warp Gate on Shakuras was sealed but Amon somehow unsealed it.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
Oh, OK then it was just for illustartive purposes.

I guess so.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
Not one mission in this entire game is just "build some bases, get some units, kill enemies".

There are missions that don't press the player with a timer.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
but retains her humanesque features.

So the others wouldn't freak out or maybe its how the others can see her as they can't get a more metaphysical view than that.
23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
or an angel from any abrahamic religion.

Sure, everyone has seen one...
23/11/2015 10:27Posted by vGǂIsti
Amon who actually killed almost all Xel'Naga by himself

I don't think it was alone doing that. It probably lead a faction.
23/11/2015 10:27Posted by vGǂIsti
And the last where Amon was just talking and didn't do anything

except shout and eat dirty floating rocks.
23/11/2015 10:17Posted by Störkaðr
@Myth
Oh my, that text of yours, it got me so bad. I never read text walls, but yours... It is so perfect. Do you mind if I quote you if occasion arise, for the pityful images that my own brain is able to produce are so inferior to that magnifice that you produced?

Thanks for the feel.

PS SC LotV is the last game I preordered ever. SC has immunity compared to other games because I will hardly ever stop playing its multiplayer (though I might reconsider if they will put elves and bows into game), but gaming industry these days seems to make very casual products only. Piratebay first, buy second should be a golden rule.


Knock yourself out mate, glad you enjoyed it.
23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
I don't know how many of you've played SC1, but back then Zeratul was essentially an unstoppable killing machine
Not a fan of Artanis I take it. As for Zeratul, he was wounded at some point (I don't recall when) and he's been limping ever since. If anything, him still being OP is the real plothole here. (Zeratul was my favorite char in SC, btw)

23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
So, where did it go really wrong? Hands down, the last mission and the epilogue. I seriously chuckled when I realised that the final mission was going to be an almost complete carbon copy of the final mission of WoL, with some changed variables.

No. It was a carbon copy of ''In Utter Darkness'', with some changed variables. And I do believe (based on the dialogue before it) that it was ment to feel as such.

23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
The Tal'Darim missions were masterfully done though - they were great and I really enjoyed them
Personally I didn't quite understand how the Tal'Darim went from ''a protoss tribe of seclusionists'' to ''Protoss Sith'' (or perhaps, ''Darth Protoss'').
For me the whole Tal'Darim part felt the most out of place in existing lore/story.
But considering how many seem to now be a fan of Darth Alarak, I guess they made a right choice in that design.

23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
At the point where this kind of mega death powers started getting introduced, I actually thought to myself "Is this actually happening? Is this really a part of LotV?". Considering that SC2 had mostly stuck to maintaining somewhat of a realistic image of a sci-fi universe, this was more like high fantasy.

I think Tassadar using his personal nuke at the end of SC set a high standard. While I do think they should of delivered Kerrigans power up in a better way, it's certainly nothing new to see something like that.

23/11/2015 01:19Posted by Ornstein
It'd be happy to know your opinions on this. Hopefully it's not really just me that's got something wrong. If it is just me, then I'd love to see things through a new perspective so please do still leave your explanation. I will try to look into it with an open mind
I think I agree/disagree about 50/50. A lot of it is subjective tho.

In case of the Epilogue, I don't view it as part of the LotV story, but rather the ''after the credits end'' of the entire SC storyline.

Personally I think the storytelling suffered from the desire to have all 3 races playable 'one last time'. I think Kerrigans power up would of made more sense if you didnt have this zerg swarm where there should be no terrain for them to use, etc. Final mission should of been Kerrigan only vs Amon. (imo)
23/11/2015 09:49Posted by Mojko
To sum it up, SC2 feels more like fantasy story of bad fan fiction level. SC1 was science fiction.

Also I can't get over this artefact thing. You need to kill Zerg in huge batches? Sure, it can do that. Oh, now you need to de-infest an infested human. Of course it can do that. You want to resurrect a Xel'Naga? Sure, no problem. You want to stun Terran units? We've got that covered as well. You need a navigation map to find a place that probably doesn't exist? We have an answer right here. You need a temporary prison for almighty powerful creature that got resurrected and currently controls the Khala? We have that sweet comfy prison in there too.

I wonder if you can also grind oranges on that as well.


The true secret to the keystone is that it holds a Sonic Screwdriver inside of it.
Personally I didn't quite understand how the Tal'Darim went from ''a protoss tribe of seclusionists'' to ''Protoss Sith'' (or perhaps, ''Darth Protoss'').

It was introduced later on. Starting from WoL, probably, they didn't have a real idea of what to do with them and/or about their origin. Afterwards they decided they were the only protoss caring for Amon's return, that left with it after the Aeon of Strife, I guess.
23/11/2015 13:50Posted by Njala
In case of the Epilogue, I don't view it as part of the LotV story, but rather the ''after the credits end'' of the entire SC storyline.

That means, we didn't get a finale in LotV as they said we will.
Whoa! I didn't expect that my post would spark so much conversation, but I am glad it did!

@Myth

23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
WoL was basically "a few good men" fighting the "big evil empire" and then suddenly going on a wild quest to get the McGuffin to save the damsel in distress. Even though we got plenty of McGuffin missions perviously (Get the Khaldarian crystals for the overmind. Get the Uraj. Get the Khalis. Get to the Temple. Get to da choppa! and so on). Oh, we also have a "hold out until dropships arrive" mission, copied from SC1. We also have a "rescue the general from his crashed battlecrusier", copied from SC1 (but Duke was a much better character than Warfield. Even his name sounds like an a$$pull. he's a general, he can't possibly have a regular surname. it has to be Warfield).


TBH I have to admit that the 3rd mission (the holdout one) is my guilty pleasure. I've probably played through that one the most, together with the other holdout missions such as the Hellion one. I do agree however that it gets slightly annoying when you are just running around chasing objects. It feels like there's not really a lot of... significance to your actions. I guess that made sense canonically though, since Raynor's Raiders were just a small band of mercenaries, essentially.

23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
Except that here comes HotS and she re-zergifies to "save Jim". Why couldn't Valarian spring him? Or Sarah as an extremely gifted psionic ghost? With the help of the Raiders? At the end of WoL the Raiders had enough manpower to save their own commander. Anyway she rezergifies and does stuff because reasons and she saves the mansel in distress, but he is angry at her because he can't have sexy time with her any more (too many spikes and claws and such). Then we get to own the hybrid and Duran, and we've been waiting for that since SC1 and the bonus mission with Zeratul.


You are actually mentioning a plot hole that had me really, really obsessed back when HotS came out. Considering that Sarah was basically an unstoppable god-tier "assassin" (more like destruction incarnate), being capable of obliterating professional Dominion ghosts like it's nothing as shown in the cinematics, then why didn't she just snipe Mengsk? Again, judging from the cinematics he speaks in surprisingly open spaces. It would've been easy to kill him. However, I guess trading your humanity for even more god-tier superpowers and the chance to butcher billions (again) is too good to pass up.

23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
Seriously blizzard, you need separate art teams for your games. Warcraft proportions, warcraft shoulder plates, warcraft floating rocks and warcraft octopus faces belong in Warcraft. Not Starcraft.


You missed orcs in space. Heh. Get it? SC1 references? Real slick, right? :D

23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
Wait. Wait. Wait. What happened last time? The zerg followed us to Shakuras by using our own Warpgates. Rgiht. We had to get the McGuffins to do the plot thing to do the base defence mission so that we can burn them all off the face of Shakuras. So, who'se bright idea WAS IT to leave the warp gates open? Wasn't Auir abandoned? I am confus.


Apparently, since Aiur had fallen and the warp gates were no longer functioning on their side, I guess the Shakuras IT department, very much like a human one, thought "why bother?". Of course, one would assume that if your entire planet was on the brink of annihilation once before due to the same 'why bother?" attitude, one would take precautions to ensure that unauthorised forces can't use the warp gates. I guess the Protoss are yet to invent workplace policies.

23/11/2015 09:04Posted by Myth
And Kerrigan becomes a Xel'Naga, but retains her humanesque features.


TBH the single moment during which I felt real suspense was Kerrigan's transformation. Was she going to become a giant squid, or retain her humanoid looks? I think that's what was on Raynor's mind as well, for one reason or another. He didn't need much convincing though. I guess that was good, since the "impactful scene" of Kerrigan's "sacrifice" to become a Xel'Naga really wasn't a sacrifice, since she apparently gained the ability to change forms and become the good old her, before flying away with Raynor towards the rainbow.

@Mojko

Your comment made me laugh really, really hard :D Thanks for that!

@AlexOdhin

It altered it like it altered the Overmind.


Yeah, but the Overmind is a tangible being, so it kind of made sense. The Khala is a sum of the collective thoughts of the Protoss. Even if we assume that Amon can access the Khala (which shouldn't be possible IMHO, since he's definitely not Protoss), how is he capable of forcing his thoughts on others through it? None of the other Protoss showed the ability to control each other through the Khala - only empathise. And even that was rare.

Yes. Artanis had more power due to Amon's control, possibly. Zeratul was older (I doubt that was the reason) and didn't find another way to rescue Artanis. His sacrifice was not in vain as the Khalai wouldn't have wanted a Nerazim leader. Artanis had to be saved at all costs.


I don't think it works that way. I don't see why it should. Artanis is still Artanis, even when under Amon's control. He shouldn't have any additional powers, he's not been modified in any way. he was just being controlled. That aside, with his nerve cords severed, Artanis also basically became a Nerazim, as did all Protoss. He was even shown generating a dark templar blade.

How to get there? The place was already overrun (somehow) by zerg and hybrid.


I don't know. I would assume that they'd have to go there the same way they went to the temple. What is that way? No clue.

Wasn't at full capacity yet? The synthetic star was not completely operational?


That's a possibility, although I would imagine that a core capability like that should always be present. Either way, that would just be speculation, so let's just say, why did they have to blow it up right then and there? They could go through with their business and when the Spear of Adun was at full capacity they could just go back, blow it up real quick and run away. They would've even killed more Zerg that way.

Not really. They decided to go meta on the physics.


That is true, maybe a physician would've laughed at my claim. However, to me it looked mostly realistic. Or at least, standard Sci-Fi stuff. Besides, I'd trade realistic physics for LazerzTM any day. The issue is that the story seemed realistic and that's no longer the case.

It wasn't bad. It was considered so by the others that did not share its view.


That Rohana preserver commented on how Amon pretended to be ideologically driven to "erase pain by erasing life", but deep inside he was filled with hatred and wanted his creations to suffer and all that stuff. And even if he considered his acts just, a nihilistic demi-god destroying the universe, even if his moral compass tells him is good, doesn't really present that much of a dilemma to everyone else. Essentially, we did end up with "good guys protecting the universe vs big bad immortal guy".

We still have to see dying protoss. In the first game I thought they actually died like spirits but they actually warped back.


We do actually get to see dying Protoss in the "flashback" in LotV where they fight each other during the Aeon of Strife. You can clearly see that they don't disperse and that they drop dead on the ground.

@Njala

Not a fan of Artanis I take it. As for Zeratul, he was wounded at some point (I don't recall when) and he's been limping ever since. If anything, him still being OP is the real plothole here. (Zeratul was my favorite char in SC, btw)


He was wounded? I failed to notice that (maybe due to his ridiculous jumping around all over the place despite any injuries he might have). Him losing to Artanis makes sense then.

No. It was a carbon copy of ''In Utter Darkness'', with some changed variables. And I do believe (based on the dialogue before it) that it was ment to feel as such.


I saw the artefact and the same exact "timer", so I automatically associated it with WoL's final mission.

Personally I didn't quite understand how the Tal'Darim went from ''a protoss tribe of seclusionists'' to ''Protoss Sith'' (or perhaps, ''Darth Protoss'').
For me the whole Tal'Darim part felt the most out of place in existing lore/story.
But considering how many seem to now be a fan of Darth Alarak, I guess they made a right choice in that design.


TBH for a small splinter group - a tribe, as you said - they had a surprisingly huge domain. They even had a "death fleet" (LOL). How does that even work? Weren't they supposed to be weak, just like all splinter Protoss? Ah well. I don't quite get what you mean by "Protoss Sith" - perhaps you mean their extreme competitiveness and brutality? We didn't know much about them in the first place, so we couldn't have possibly known if they were brutal or not. However, I just found the flow, the dialogue and the mission design of the Tal'Darim missions to be ridiculously good. It just had that feeling to it that the entire LotV campaign was missing. I guess the sick black/red colour theme and the spooky mist also helped out a bit, but it just felt natural - it actually felt like Sci-Fi and like Starcraft, mostly because there weren't any demi-god destroyers, I think.
Regarding Zeratul versus Artanis, Zeratul was at a significant disadvantage in that he was fighting for a very specific goal, whereas Artanis (who may have had some power boost from Amon anyway) was only fighting to kill. The only injury Zeratul wanted to inflict was a precise strike to the nerve cords, harming Artanis in other ways that would make it easier, like cutting his limbs off, would have been bad for Artanis' immediate future leading the Protoss, so Zeratul had a big handicap in the fight, and he managed to get his win condition even if he died in the process. Lot of other points I agree with, but I don't think it Zeratul appeared weak in that fight.
@Njala

I think Tassadar using his personal nuke at the end of SC set a high standard. While I do think they should of delivered Kerrigans power up in a better way, it's certainly nothing new to see something like that.


IDK about you, but for me Tassadar's "nuke" felt natural too. He was basically the strongest Protoss to ever live and he melded both Dark Templar and High Templar energies together - something that was never done before and was supposedly a huge deal. Besides, it's not like he just smited that puny, mortal Overmind. He charged his Carrier with the templar energies and then rammed it into the Overmind. Besides, the Overmind wasn't really that tough as a whole. The explosion was enough to kill the Overmind, but nothing much more than that. If I had to compare it with something in LotV, it'd be the Protoss fleet firing that Planet Cracker LazerzTM at Amon's physical body and destroying it. In contrast, Kerrigan's LazerzTM just felt like something taken straight out of a superhero comic book. And not even a good comic book, a bad one where the hero is ridiculously overpowered.
then why didn't she just snipe Mengsk?

Because he gots himself protection, that's whys.
It would've been easy to kill him.

Mengsk surely had ways of monitoring himself and his surroundings. The Spear of Adun on the other hand... man I don't know....
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
The Khala is a sum of the collective thoughts of the Protoss

It's a metaphysical program. It can be infected, no problemo!
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
Even if we assume that Amon can access the Khala (which shouldn't be possible IMHO, since he's definitely not Protoss), how is he capable of forcing his thoughts on others through it?

Because Amon helped uplifting the protoss. It understands its intricacies. It's like Amon was a scientist or ITist that knew how to work with it.
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
None of the other Protoss showed the ability to control each other through the Khala - only empathise. And even that was rare.

Actually the Conclave and other superior psionics possessing protoss could influence other protoss through the Khala. However, they could not mind control them.
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
Artanis is still Artanis, even when under Amon's control.

Then Tassadar should have been Tassadar and the Overmind should have laughed its eye out when the Gantrithor hit its fleshy existence.
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
He shouldn't have any additional powers, he's not been modified in any way

Think it as his psionics increased tenfold thus increasing his physical strength too.
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
He was even shown generating a dark templar blade.

Which belonged to Zeratul. The problem was that he even generated a psionic blade (the blue one) without the Khala...
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
That's a possibility, although I would imagine that a core capability like that should always be present.

Didn't it react to the Keystone? I don't quite remember exactly...
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
They could go through with their business and when the Spear of Adun was at full capacity they could just go back, blow it up real quick and run away.

Or they could have just used the purifier and save one of my favourite planets. Or, they could have used the SoA to destroy the effin' Warp Gate.
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
We do actually get to see dying Protoss in the "flashback" in LotV where they fight each other during the Aeon of Strife. You can clearly see that they don't disperse and that they drop dead on the ground.

Can you tell me the name of the cutscene please? I want to see it again as I don't remember it.
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
He was wounded?

Yes. That's true.
23/11/2015 18:11Posted by Ornstein
How does that even work? Weren't they supposed to be weak, just like all splinter Protoss?

Not really. They had plenty of time since the Aeon of Strife to construct and gear themselves up. Not to mention, maybe Duran helped them.
23/11/2015 18:17Posted by Ornstein
He was basically the strongest Protoss to ever live

One of the-let's not forget Adun and Khas.
23/11/2015 18:17Posted by Ornstein
something that was never done before and was supposedly a huge deal.

I think you might be right. Did a recheck on Adun and it seems he didn't use the Void at all but only taught the way of the Templar to protoss that did not want the Khala (they still had their cords on). Later on, after they became as powerful as the Templar, they cut their cords off to mock the Conclave. So there were other nerve cords bearing protoss other than the Khalai and Tal'darim (later on introduced).
23/11/2015 18:17Posted by Ornstein
If I had to compare it with something in LotV, it'd be the Protoss fleet firing that Planet Cracker LazerzTM at Amon's physical body and destroying it.

I doubt it's the same. They could of very well use purifiers on the Overmind then (if they still had them).
23/11/2015 18:17Posted by Ornstein
In contrast, Kerrigan's LazerzTM just felt like something taken straight out of a superhero comic book.

Imagine that Kerrigan just became more than the Spear of Adun itself in what her powers were concerned. She was not human, nor zerg, nor protoss anymore. She was much, much more. She became that which cannot be understood by mere mortals. Anyways, why didn't Ouros fight Amon instead?
@AlexOdhin

23/11/2015 20:22Posted by AlexOdhin
Because he gots himself protection, that's whys.


Yeah, but from the looks of it his protection sucked. What kind of a multi-planet dictator speaks in a wide open plaza?

Then Tassadar should have been Tassadar and the Overmind should have laughed its eye out when the Gantrithor hit its fleshy existence.


The thing is that Tassadar had mastered the two templar energies - Khala and Void. He wasn't being possessed, he was actually using his own power, so it's perfectly logical that he was strong. Artanis, on the other hand, looked like he was just being possessed, which shouldn't result in a power increase.

Think it as his psionics increased tenfold thus increasing his physical strength too.


Even assuming that Psi can actually increase physical ability, how does his Psi just "increase" by simply being possessed? There's no evidence for that.

Which belonged to Zeratul. The problem was that he even generated a psionic blade (the blue one) without the Khala...


Was the green blade generated from Artanis' psi or Zeratul's gauntlet? I wasn't paying attention to such detail. That aside, yes, generating a blue blade without access to the Khala was definitely odd.

Can you tell me the name of the cutscene please? I want to see it again as I don't remember it.


Alas I don't even remember at what point of the campaigning it was played :X I remember that it involved Rhoana, if I am not mistaken, and Artanis, obviously.

I doubt it's the same. They could of very well use purifiers on the Overmind then (if they still had them).


I meant the scale of the attack, not the nature of the attack. The Overmind was only vulnerable against Dark Templar energies for some reason, if I remember correctly, so any non-Void attack would've been worthless.

23/11/2015 20:22Posted by AlexOdhin
Imagine that Kerrigan just became more than the Spear of Adun itself in what her powers were concerned. She was not human, nor zerg, nor protoss anymore. She was much, much more. She became that which cannot be understood by mere mortals. Anyways, why didn't Ouros fight Amon instead?


That's one question. Still, it feels cheesy to introduce a superpowers-based godlike character in a science fiction.
Actually we know that only a Xel'Naga can kill the other. The cinematic where Amon shows his host body to Artanis. More than 4-5 Dead Xel'Naga. (I do not understand, then Ulnar is the same place as Void, it must be in.) Only Xel'Naga which followed Amon was Narud. There were other Xel'Nagas who followed Amon and are they dead? Or how could protoss kill Xel'Naga?
The end is weird anyways because Amon could kill her izi... I agree with Ornstein, the story was made by number1 kerrigan-fan. SC1, she gets 8 to 12 psionic index (haha, she was so bad, Nova had 10), then she gets deinfest, then primal infest, she gets more powerful. Then she becomes a "god" and easy rekt the experiented Dark God who was talking only instead of killing her...

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