Class Development

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32m Shadow in 7.2.5 & beyond Hello everyone, We of the HowToPriest staff have decided to write a large feedback document in order to display some of the problems we foresee shadow could have in the future - not just concerns about numbers, but also about some gameplay issues as we see them. The purpose of this document is to instigate discussion regarding shadow going forward in Legion. As such, feel free to post your own thoughts on whatever subject pertaining to shadow in either the EU or US thread for this document as long as it’s done in a constructive manner. Disclaimer beforehand that our point of view is mainly that of a raider’s, but we also briefly mention dungeons here and there. A brief summary of what we write about in the document (we urge people to read the full document for more in depth explanation though!): Shadow’s strengths are well defined, and if fights are well suited to our strengths then we look good during progression, but our talents don’t offer us any good means to specialize in areas beyond what we are already strong at. This is because we basically have one set in stone talent build for all situations, and quite a few of the talents we use are good at everything. This means that the talents that aren’t as versatile are left in the dust, and even in their niche they don’t necessarily outperform the more versatile talents. The three talents that we currently consider to be too good are Twist of Fate, Lingering Insanity and Power Infusion. Beyond these three talents being really good numerically right now, they also feel like an integral part of the shadow playstyle and fantasy. Giving up these talents feels bad in a lot of cases for that reason. Simply nerfing the talents that are currently picked all the time is too short sighted, as the reasons for not picking other talents don’t just boil down to the other talents being too weak. Mind Sear’s Shadow Word: Pain requirement makes little sense on top of adding frustration and extra set up to what is already a boring and unrewarding AoE rotation. The playstyle that The Twins’ Painful Touch forces you into in order to benefit from it optimally is silly, unintuitive and very unfriendly to newer players. Spamming our dots instead of Mind Flay doesn’t seem like an intended way to benefit from an already niche legendary. Future changes to shadow seem like they’re overshadowed by the existence of Surrender to Madness. It feels like the safe route is chosen in order to minimize the opportunity that Surrender to Madness becomes a thing again. Examples of that suspicion include our new traits Fiending Dark and Lash of Insanity, and also our (as of right now) T20 set bonuses. All three of these affect our guardians in some way or another, and they have no further synergy with anything else in our kit. Shadowfiend is a boring cooldown that you press every 3 minutes without it giving us feedback that it’s doing anything in any way, nor does it synergize with anything else in our kit. The damage it does is also mediocre compared to a lot of other 3 minute cooldowns. Our T20 set bonuses are boring because they do nothing but give us more and stronger Shadowfiend/Mindbender casts over the course of a fight. Therefore, the set bonuses do nothing to make our boring cooldown any more exciting. In terms of damage, Shadowfiend also scales way better with both Fiending Dark and T20 than Mindbender does, especially if you take into consideration that you lose Power Infusion by picking Mindbender. Legendary imbalance is also a concern here.The full document in question can be read here: US thread: Thanks in advance for reading!Isentropy220 32m
1h Healer balance in 7.2.5 So, at this point it really comes more down to the player, rather than the class they are playing (at least this goal has been achieved much better than in 7.2). But, since I like to think that I'm a rational person, I compared 7.2.5 and 7.2 healer performance. Specifically raidhealers, where basically all that counts is raw hps output. For the sake of argument, let's ignore the fact that disc priest actually delivers insane damage for a healer, hands out damage reductions to every atonement target, and that holy priests can chug 2 leytorrent potions per fight, making mana management for holy priests a !@#$ing joke. In 7.2 Druids were made overpowered thanks to the T19 4pc + Legendary shoulders, thanks to Blizzard's QA/Designers' incompetence and not being able to foresee that a ridiculous synergy like that would result in high numbers. Fast-forward to 7.2.5: Druids get the shoulders almost destroyed (with a 2/5 nerf to the Shoulder effect) AND get their best mythic progression talent nerfed by 16% (Cultivation) AND get a significant 4% nerf to ALL healing spells AND Druids of course get a %^-* T20 that is pretty much unusable, unless it titanforges AND you use it perfectly AND it's a fight where large amounts of damage come in when the group is stacked. Looking at numbers again for 7.2.5, Holy priests happen to be on top by a pretty large margin, just like Druids were in 7.2. Now, this is the same scenario as in 7.2, only with another healer class at the very top, and it would only be logical if Priests get !@#$ on in 7.3, right? I mean, you can't be so incompetent that you treat one healer this way and the other a different way, especially if you completely neglect complaints that have been uttered about the T20 for multiple ToS mythic IDs now. Just wanted to get this off my chest. Actually getting annoyed with the balancing team (it's probably just one guy who has to do overtime LUL - in that case: sorry, that one guy). TL;DR: Get your !@#$ together and fix stuff. This is not a competitive shooter where everybody can just have the exact same loadout. At some point you're stuck with a class and rerolling is not an option, unless you nolife and farm legendaries (for which there are still no catch-up mechanics in place, btw. Really good job on that. RNG garbage is fun).Tarmena14 1h
2h Revert the ring nerf? On the behalf of whole warrior community (ARMS) I'd like to ask if you can revert the ring nerf to it's original state (1,8 ppm , not 3.00!) ?Fanatìk11 2h
2h PvE Tuning Changes for July 26 We're looking to make the following changes with maintenance in each region next week: Classes Death Knight Frost Fixed a bug preventing Hungering Rune Weapon from generating a Rune at the correct rate of once every 1.5 seconds. All damage abilities increased by 5%.Paladin Retribution Blade of Justice damage increased by 10% (unchanged in PvP). Crusader Strike damage increased by 10%. Items Rogue All Specs Mantle of the Master Assassin duration reduced to 5 seconds (was 6 seconds).Subtlety Denial of the Half-Giants cooldown reduction reduced to 0.2 seconds per combo point spent (was 0.3 seconds).Warrior Arms The Great Storm's Eye damage bonus per stack reduced to 2% (was 4%). Ayala's Stone Heart now procs 40% less often for Arms Warriors. Aerythlea20 2h
9h Mantle of the Master Assassin Hi i just saw your planned changed die the rogue legendaries. While I agree with the nerf on the bracers cause they really feel like needed to be able to parse, I disagree with the mantle nerf. The mantle nerf doesnt affect subtlety as much as it affects outlaw (they lose around 8 seconds of uptime on a 5 Minute fight) while outlaw is already in the Bottom of the Pack.Anyon5 9h
10h Who is the aff lock dev? Cause man, that guy needs to go. Item - Warlock T21 Affliction 2P Bonus - Drain Soul Increases UA Duration When Drain Soul deals damage, there is a 0% 15% chance to increase the duration of Unstable Affliction on the target by 0 sec. 1.0 sec. Item - Warlock T21 Affliction 4P Bonus - Corruption Causes Drain Soul Tick Faster When Corruption deals damage, you have a 2% chance to increase the speed at which Drain Soul deals damage for the next 0 sec. by 100 for the next 10 sec. They want us to Drain for life. Please Mr. Dev. just go... Not even diving into pvp design. Clearly these devs never played WoW before Legion.Jinskdh4 10h
10h Ret paly 7.2.5 Numbers will be fixed i hope. However mechanics will not which is sad, because of the BOW is just bad, random cd reset doesnt fit a rotation well. Which is issue what i predicted when BOW was changed at first time. ( Divine Hammer idea was not so much better, because it was dull, but fortunately for rets it was not unproductive, in reality it saved us for a while.) There is lot of issues with it, as the GCD which is the same problem as divine purpose, you get a proc, but wait judgement isnt on the target. Then what ? Pick up more haste which doesnt work, numbers without the versatility and lot of critical are too low. The scaling has been destroyed by reducing the Crusade power in 7.2, what i wrote earlier then it came alive. I am playing the WOW almost 12 years and mistakes are happening, i am okay with it. However the class balancing every week isnt the best way how to fix the game issues. These hotfixes seems to be impetuously and unfair Its something what I cant expect from Blizzard Devs It looks as pure amateurism when the gamer can calculate the wrong mathematical decision in his own head earlier then you push it alive. ideas 1. The BOW and VB will never be so strong, as it should be until you buff the core of these spells something as holy dmg instead of physical, shorter cd or incrieased critical strike chance of it as ret passive. Until this time Divine hammer agaist it, is still strong, cause of holy dmg, zero RNG, haste scale, low gcd dependancy or zero wasted HP with it. 2. The reliq dependency, combined with ilvl weapon dependency should go away 3. Change retribution passive to something useful or cosmetic for the raid, it doesnt metter. as the party dmg reduction or heal, by just few percents for 10 sec, in the same situation as it works today. 4.Made the Crusade baseline and put the another talent which is not so powerful instead of it (as generator dmg boost or judgement dmg boost). 5. Give us 5% haste baseline, it will fit us well at low lvl. and make a class more enjoyable on start. 5% haste baseline will increase the value of the another stats in the endgame. 6. Dont ignore the player base on PTR as you do it in legion blizz, i beg you. Its not fair becouse of it hurts after all those years. a) Convergance of fates 7.1.5 (ptr) b) Retribution aura (legion beta) c) Crusade talent itself whole the expansion (i am fan of Crusade its supercool and its skill meter, which is rare as black pearl in Legion) 7. Remove auto Divine shield, it makes us a joke in the eyes of another players. The Joke is good thing when its funny, unhappily this one isnt. I realy wish to hear some response about rets design and plans for the future dear Blizz. I am not alone, i presume. At this point i will be realy grateful when the other rets will share their own ideas in this threat without any vulgarism. PS: Goodbye gentlemen, I am sorry when it was too offensive, but this is how i feel it.Liaara30 10h
13h shadow priests are !@#$. shadow priests are !@#$. Traditional dps ranking by [Spec Class] is fundamentally flawed because it doesn't take into account reasonable option value. Legendaries/AP are still substantial barriers to spec switching, but for the most part players have the option to invest playtime towards what is perceived to be their best spec and we see this bias in number of parses from certain specs. I think a more relevant ranking that reflects real world raiding would be by [Class]. For example, Class A has 3 damage specs Spec 1 - Very good Spec 2 - Average Spec 3 - Very Bad Class B has 1 damage spec Spec 1 - Average Traditional [Spec Class] ranking will give the false impression that Class B is middle of the pack in the wild. A1 A2 / B1 A3 Ranking by [Class] however will reveal the effect of players min/maxing such that we expect to see A B Since blizzard servers are having a huge outage today, I decided to do exactly this. I play spriest, which is why this question interests me. Personal experience and traditional [Spec Class] rankings do not seem to match up for many people. How bad is Priest really? Terms Weighted Class dps weighted among number of parses. Spec 1 - 70 parses (100dps) Spec 2 - 20 parses (80dps) Spec 3 - 10 parses (60dps) Weighted dps of 92 (0.7*100+0.2*80+0.1*60) Min/Max Max(spec1,spec2,spec3). Using above example gives 100 dps. Avg Rank Dps consistency measured as the average ranking per boss from 1-12 using a weighted dps figure. Lower is better. If a class smashes one boss in particular but performs badly on all others, it will show as a high average ranking. A crude proxy indicator for relative dps volatility. Results All bosses, without Skorpyron (meme boss), without Skorpyron and Botanist (for spriests). Won't let me post images or links so you're gonna have to open them in a new tab. Even though mythic Skorpy isn't meme, included those numbers for comparison with heroic if you want to do that. Heroic 75th Percentile 95th Percentile Mythic 75th Percentile 95th Percentile Best Spec per Boss 95th Percentile Mythic NH Some observations Monk and Spriest consistently score very low across the board. Rogue is not doing very good either but we should expect their weighted dps to increase over the long term as players gain better ability to switch between specs. High Priest dps volatility between bosses goes down the harder the content (more hp adds). A large part of the performance range imbalance of 10-13% is coming from warlocks(affliction) outperforming by a large margin. When we exclude warlocks, the performance range between classes decreases to 5-8%. Shaman, Hunter, Mage see 50-60k average dps increase over all encounters by switching specs per boss. Mage is very dps volatile between bosses. A lot of Mages are sticking with fire (up to 40% of total parses) even though it is the lowest performing mage spec by 10-25%. Mage players change specs the most depending on boss. Shamans and Druids are the most "stubborn". They like to stick with their favourite spec. Consistent 60/40 split between ele/enh and 85/15 between balance/feral respectively irregardless of which spec performs better on a boss. Class Tiers From 75 percentile Mythic NH (All Bosses, Spec Min/Max), classes seem to be divided into distinct performance groupings God Tier +17.2% Warlock Good Tier +8.7% Warrior Hunter Death Knight Middle Tier +7.5% Paladin Shaman Mage Druid Meh Tier +4.2% Demon Hunter Rogue Monk Garbage Tier +0% Priest TL;DR Priest is not doing so hot in 7.2 Sheets Data pulled from warcraftlogs.comLayeth17 13h
14h Delete BM, please. Hi there, I think that what I'm about to say is what every non-bm and many bm players are thinking. We need to remove Beastmastery from the game, not nerf, not replace just straight up delete. Some of you may think that I'm just triggered after I got totally murdered by a BM hunter (which is true), but I also have done some research by logging onto my hunter and becomming BM for a few arenas. What I saw was truely disgusting, I was sending millions of beasts out every 2 seconds and then all I had to do was kill command, boom guy just got straight up deleted. So trust me when I say that beast mastery is unethical and just morally wrong. Please Blizzard, remove Beast Mastery. -thanksEboshi3 14h
15h Affliction Warlock PVP talents and viability. Hello there! I'm a 3000+ rated warlock who mostly plays pvp as affliction spec, so I'm mainly concerned about pvp. I'm creating this topic because, the new pvp talents that came with 7.1.5 were supposed to be equally good choices versus Endless Affliction and Amplify Affliction. However they still werent as good as EA and AA in their row. After their introduction they got nerfed by a lot, so basically they are as useless now as their predecessors. Tier 5: Soulshatter: Sounds good to have a personal bloodlust with a minute cooldown, however this totally kills all your dmg (it removes all of your dots), because the main dmg in pvp is 20 stack agony, which already takes like 25 seconds to stack up that high. Death's Embrace: Was good with the 100% dmg done, but ppl abused it with rot and decay 5 uas and it basically oneshotted ppl from 30%. However RaD is nerfed, so I don't get why this talent isn't reverted. Endless Affliction: Even tho casting UA feels unrewarding at all (even multipled ones), this is still the best overall spec. Tier 6: Curse of Shadows: The idea is interesting to have another curse to enhance our dot dmg, however our single target dmg is so low this isn't even a viable option. We'd need longer UA durations for this talent, and also even dps specs are just dispelling it. Rot and Decay: This mainly promotes a single target gameplay for affliction warlock in pvp, which is just simply unviable in the current meta/patch. Affliction ST dmg is really weak in pvp and it's just really easy to lock down the warlock. Amplify Affliction: This is just a must have for affliction warlocks. Right now I can't even imagine a situation when anyone would'nt pick this talent. This boosts our dmg at least by 30% or even more. The fast gcds are just must have to keep up all our REALLY SHORT duration dots. I'm not saying the new talents are totally useless, they are a step into the right direction, however they are still worse then EA and AA. I'm mainly concerned about going into 7.2 or 7.2.5 without getting any meaningful changes. I don't want Blizzard to make affliction really op, however I want some quality of life changes for pvp, because the spec right now just feels dull and plain boring. It just feels bad to cast UAs and you can barely feel the difference in the dmg. However without going into theorycrafting about the new PvP talents, I'd like to have: -UA dmg buffed slightly -Longer dot duration -Demon Skin 50% nerf reverted for affliction / soul link reintroduced to affli / 1 minute wall for affli too (we are one of the squishiest cloth casters, when we are supposed to be one of the tankiest). ((Hello firemages.)) Thanks for reading! Any constructive criticism is welcome. :)Atosy379 15h
15h PvP Tuning Changes for July 26 We're looking to make the following changes with maintenance in each region this week: Druid - Balance PvP Template Armor reduced by 10%. Each rank of Bladed Feathers grants 12.5% additional armor in PvP, down from 25. Ironfeather Armor now grants an additional 25% armor, down from 50% armor. Celestial Guardian now grants 10% spell damage reduction, down from 20%. Moonkin Form now grants 125% additional armor in PvP situations, down from 200%. Druid - Restoration PvP Template Intellect increased by 2%. PvP Template Mastery increased by 20%. Mage - Frost Frigid Winds increases chilling effects by 10% in PvP situations, down from 15%. Chilled reduces the movement speed of targets by 40% in PvP situations, down from 50%. Priest - Holy Ray of Hope's cooldown is increased to 60 seconds, up from 45 seconds. PvP Template Intellect reduced by 4%. PvP Template Mastery reduced by 30%. The heal over time effect of Renew now heals for an additional 75% in PvP, down from an additional 100%. Shaman - Restoration Riptide's heal is increased by 15% in PvP situations, down from an additional 30%. PvP Template Intellect reduced by 4%. Warlock - Affliction PvP Template Intellect increased by 4%. Warlock - Destruction PvP Template Armor increased by 30%. PvP Template Versatility increased by 5%. Aerythlea13 15h
20h Spectral sight in PvP What do you think about Demon hunters spell "Spectral Sight"? I might just be a horrible player but I think that Spectral sight should not be around in the PvP environment. Please give me you suggestions..Fikarn9 20h
20h The State of Havoc - 7.2.5 This is a copy! Original post on the US forums by Zarania! ( ) State of Havoc Demon Hunters Who am I? Hi everyone. It’s Zarania here. For anyone who doesn’t know me, I’m one of the maintainers of the Demon Hunter SimC module and am one of the people who writes the DH theorycraft. I like to think that I present thought out information and this post will hopefully demonstrate that. The main focus of this is going to be Mythic Raiding - I do not have any experience in PvP for this expansion and in M+ Demon Hunters seem mostly “fine” and the issues here apply there as well. Single Target - We’re ok M Goroth - H Goroth - M Maiden (smallish sample size) - H Maiden - M Avatar - 0 DH kills with public logs ( H Avatar - So, on pure single target fights we’re doing fine. Not great, but fine. On Maiden where it lines up well with our CDs we’re in the top 3 - not really a surprise since our CDs have always been great. On Goroth where there’s no extra damage phase we are upper middle of the pack, which is fine if that’s where we’re supposed to be tuned. However, given the concerns below about our cleave and AoE I question if this is where we should be ST. Avatar is a bad melee fight in general, though due to the other classes being able to maintain a bit more uptime due to things like AMS, Cloak, and leap into charge (FR -> VR has a shared CD so we can’t immediately rush out then VR back) and our HIGH reliance on boss uptime we suffer greatly here, though that comes with being melee to some extent. Sustained AoE - Extremely low M Sass - H Sass - M Host - We started the xpac with extremely good sustained aoe from Momentum + Fel Barrage triggering from our AoE repeatedly, along with TG + Bloodlet. All of that has been nerfed to the ground and the once kings of AoE are now near the bottom. During the AMA they said that Demon Hunter isn’t a “sustained aoe class” but that we’re a burst aoe class. We’ll cover that below, but our sustained AoE is EXTREMELY low. Burst AoE - Not as good as advertised M Harj - H Harj - Heroic Harjatan is more of a ST fight due to the adds dying so quickly - that’s why balance also is so low here compared to where they are on mythic. So, looking at mythic our burst AoE is extremely low as well. Looking at one of the BEST case scenarios here - I use my Nemesis on the boss (Harjatan is a giant for some reason so we can’t cheese the buff there), Chaos Blades, Meta, and a Sephuz proc. I also have up my Umbral Moonglaive trinket, as does Panzar here which inflates both our aoe. log link if you want to investigate. In the 20-31 second time period of the first set of adds, I do 50.38m damage and Panzar does 64.81. Of that, I did 32.47m to Harjatan to Panzar’s 26.55m. This means that I did 17.91m to adds to Panzar’s 38.26m. One of our rets Shouldice did 18.55m, without having up Crusade in that window, nor was he using the legendary chest DESPITE me using an aoe trinket, having up 2 CDs AND and AoE CD. Our moonkin were only slightly behind as well, again with no CDs. So if we are supposed to be a burst AoE class, why is our burst AoE so low? T19 - Good initial set In general initial tier sets are pretty passive and simple. People are learning everything that changed in the expansion and giving a basic set is expected. The tier 19 set follows that to the T - give some more fury, make our best move crit more. Over time as Chaos Strike has become a better and better button to hit due to Chaotic Onslaught, more fury generation from haste, more points in Critical Chaos, and more weapon ilvl the tier 19 bonus remains very powerful - so much so that people are finding it difficult to replace and see a reasonable gain. Sure, people are starting to drop it for mythic t20 gear but that's mainly because the ilvl is 25+ higher per slot - not because we're excited to get the new bonus.Neverlyn6 20h
20h Teach me math. I have a low level warlock. In pvp before the hotfix nerfs, my dot used to hit 150. Now it hits for 25 after the nerf. I cant figure out why it got reduced by over 50% after reading the notes.Idk2 20h
23h Warrior consistency suggestion Now that the legendary ring used for execution procs is getting a nerf (again), it will be more inconsistent than ever. The ring nerf is not the only problem for the current rotation (I don't even have it), but the way rng works for Tactician passive. Sometimes you have no procs for 20 seconds straight, sometimes you have 3 in a row. This inconsistency kills the sustained dps of this class because there will be windows where your mastery is completely useless due to no colossus smash on target. My suggestion is to make Tactician's rng into a pseudo rng. For those who don't know, it kinda works like bad luck protection for legendaries, but this swings both ways (meaning the chance of a proc decreases after each consecutive successful proc). It would help warriors maintain colossus smash more reliably on single target. This could be a nice solution not only for warriors that are really well geared, but for those who have modest gear. The dps curve according to gear is too exponential for warrior. This could also make it more linear, so you won't feel your single target dps is nonexistent if you don't have a high enough itemlevel. P.S: I hope I posted it in appropriate forum.Celestialray1 23h
1d Feral Druid Changes in 7.3.0 Hi Cats, We have a number of changes to Feral Druids coming soon. The general goals of these changes are: 1. Reduce (but not necessarily displace entirely) the dominance of the big three complexifying and powerful talents: Savage Roar, Jagged Wounds, and Bloodtalons. Each of those talents is (on live) winning by a large margin in terms of throughput against other talents on their rows. 2. Balance out the power level of the last 3 talent rows, allowing more talents builds to be viable. 3. Increase the skill floor and reduce how punishing it can be to error when playing the rotation. 4. Compensate for power-level-reductions of talents with baseline damage increase to the spec so that at the highest level, performance isn’t really affected, but the bottom of the spec is brought up. The most major changes: All damage done increased by 33%. Jagged Wounds reduced to 20%. (down from 33%) Savage Roar duration increased by 50% at all combo points. Damage bonus reduced to 15%. (down from 25%) Bloodtalons damage bonus reduced to 25%. (down from 50%) Looking back at the development of Feral Druid in Legion: when Savage Roar was moved from a baseline ability to the talent tree, in order to bring the power level of the ability closer to most talents (+25% damage to everything for a long duration is far stronger than most talents are), rather than reducing its damage bonus, its duration was significantly shortened instead. This contributed greatly to the overconstrained and overly punishing Feral rotation that you see on live today. Additionally, Jagged Wounds was added as a new talent, reducing the amount of free combo points Ferals had available to finishers such as Ferocious Bite (which was basically pushed out of the rotation entirely). Both talents probably would have been fine on their own, but taken together (because they were the strongest) at the live tuning values led to a more pressured Feral rotation than we felt was right. Additionally, a few talents are being rearranged in the talent tree: Jagged Wounds moved to lvl 75 row. (from lvl 90 row) Savage Roar moved to lvl 90 row. (from lvl 75 row) Brutal Slash moved to lvl 90 row. (from lvl 100 row) Elune’s Guidance moved to lvl 100 row. (from lvl 90 row) The primary gain here is moving Brutal Slash to a sort of multitarget/AOE lvl 90 talent row along with Sabertooth (which can be well-utilized in a sustained low-target situation), giving the lvl 90 row a solid talent for dungeons. For now, we want to go with an arrangement that keeps Jagged Wounds, Savage Roar, and Bloodtalons on separate rows so the current most common live build is still possible. Other less major changes include quality of life and tuning adjustments to some talents to balance out the rows: Prowl cooldown reduced to 6 sec (down from 10 sec) for all Druid specs. Rebirth is castable in all forms, and consequently, is no longer affected by or consumes Predatory Swiftness. Sabertooth damage bonus to Ferocious Bite increased to 20%. Incarnation: King of the Jungle energy cost reduction reduced to 50% (down from 60%) and only allows the use of Prowl once. This it to balance out that talent row with the new Jagged Wounds and to reduce the frequency of Rake stuns in PvP while still allowing Incarnation to function as an effective Vanish. Moment of Clarity now causes Omen of Clarity to trigger twice as often and increases the damage of the affected abilities by 25%. This is to better space out what is essentially a large energy proc and reduce slightly the impact that a single talent has on the resource income and pacing of the rotation. Elune’s Guidance cooldown reduced to 30 sec (down from 45 sec) and combo points granted reduced to 5 + 5 over 5 seconds (down from 5 + 8 over 8 seconds). Overall, with these changes, balance for the last 3 talent rows and consequently overall should be better in general. We expect the current most common build/playstyle of Jagged Wounds + Savage Roar + Bloodtalons to still remain one of the strongest builds, but it should no longer win by a huge margin over other competing talent builds and also should be a little less strenuous to play. These changes should be available in an upcoming PTR build. As usual, we may make further adjustments – especially tuning – as PTR progresses.Lore42 1d
1d Paladin Mobility No offense but our mobility compared to other classes are just simply garbage... we have 2 (with talents) divine steeds, 100% Ms for 3 sec, and that's all, we have NOTHING else to increase our movement speed. This is hillarious in PvP and in PvE aswell... The only thing tha comes to my mind is the legendary feet, but that's all. In PvP we get kited by basicly every 1, we have some capabilities to kite back, but we have nothing to compensate with our insanely bad mobility. In PvE every 1 outruns me in Dungeons, i feel like a slug.... During Raid encounters i'm spend more time running from mechanics than actually dpsing.... i have to PREmove in order to handle mechanics, hence i'm loosing dps. (Yes we have other methods to inc our MS, by for example getting buffed by other players... but this should not be necessary, when every other class has a way to handle this...) Please for the love of God, buff the mobility, or give us other capabilities to increase our movement speed :(Sentwin9 1d
1d hey Blizzard what did we do to you? What is with the continues nerf to our abilities? At first you nerfed all damage and Spirit Bomb shortly after your ptr deep testing. I agree that Spirit Bomb was op but the total nerf of 38% makes you wonder if you even tried casting it before it went live. We were fine after these changes. Only then you decided to further nerf Fracture and again Spirit Bomb. Is it not intended for us to do damage now? Why are those brm running around with being able to be invisible and doing high damage and we cannot even compete with them in any of those?Slagathor3 1d
1d Developers, you have it all backwards It appears you think there has to be a "carrot" on the end of the stick for people using your product (playing the game). Well your partially right.. WoW E-sports, and now Mythic Dungeon Keystone, with price pools. Imho, we all can see how hard you try to "save" WoW & make it popular. Your efforts to advertise WoW arena, and now mythic dungeons. Actually this is exactly what i was expecting from the current developer team, nothing more. Instead of fixing the problem, throw money at it. I'm not saying these are dumb ideas, just that, before you do all this you should make your game a good game. You have played games you just "fall in to", games you can sink what seems as limitless amounts of time. This is what you should try to do with WoW (LIKE IT USED TO BE). Not advertising a crap game, that you put so much effort in changing/destroying. I know you read that sentence and you discard this topic. But please hear me out, this one time. To the point: If your game is good, so to say it is not riding the wave of previous successes, as you have been so far. PEOPLE WILL PLAY IT LIKE THEY DID BEFORE. You NEED to realize this, and correct your mistakes immediately. To be blunt, you have been given an opportunity to run the most successful game of all time. You can not destroy the game in a couple of years, but give it time and you will be able to do that. And your on a good path for that to happen. The problem with the game is NOT that people have become bored with it. The problem is that you have destroyed the core of the game with your utterly stupid design decisions. I doubt, but if you would be able to correct you insanely stupid design decisions (im not saying everything has gotten worse), but those things that have (the big ones), PLAYERS WILL FLOCK TO PLAY THIS GAME. It is that simple. I can not put it any other way. The decline of WoW subs is only the developers fault, and your continuing to destroy the game with ALMOST every change you make. We all can see this, except you. I know this will be another "rant" among the thousands of rants you get. But this is in fact the truth, believe it or not. You, the developers are the reason this game has gone to !@#$. And i truly mean no harm, i am just being honest with you. But it is your fault you have lost the subs. It is your fault this game sucks. It is not the players that have changed. WE LOVE THE GAME. Or at least, we used to.Babybackribb16 1d
1d How much do I suck? I've been trying the Arti Challenge....A LOT. I finally got to Phase 2. Once. After at least 90 wipes according to DBM. AFTER I stated using DBM. At ilvl 915. I've seen YouTube videos of it being done with no legendaries. I've seen comments from players who beat it in 7 tries. Those facts beat down my motivation more than dying all the time. I don't want the challenge to be nerfed, Blizzard said it would be hard and they delivered. I want to know if I'm currently the worst DH on WOW? How pathetic are those numbers compared to other DHs who have attempted this?Terrid3 1d
1d Ret paladin goes to bench Dear, I wanna share my exp as a ret paladin troughout 7.2.5 I play in a casual / semi hardcore raiding guild. we a re 7/9 HC and are progging on Avatar HC, wich is kind of a dps check in Phase 2.. Paladins bring nothing to a raid at this moment in legion. we have no dps, we have nearly no mobility. The only thing we can do, is survive a fight. wich doesnt really matter in the end when you need damage. I'm not asking blizzard to make ret a top damage class.. but could they just please give us something? next week i'm prob on the bench.. i love my paladin, i have been investing a ton of time in this toon! At this point in the game it doesnt really feel forgiving wich is sad. I also wanna mention i dont have the waist legendary yet, wich makes a huge difference. but hey, some ppl aint as lucky as others with their legendary's! without the waist ur even more useless in a dps fight, wich is why i am hoping i'll get it up next. if i dont get my waist next, i might aswell just play another toon untill paladin gets some buffs. This makes me sad.. dident read a single thing about paladin changes coming up.. in the meantime dk's get changes... even when nobody complains about dk's at their current spot. Could we get a response please? so we know your really working on a fix for paladins?? feel free to share your toughts about this aswell. Thanks for reading, XeothXeoth17 1d
1d Surv Hunt 7.2.5: Tuning and design flaws A bold claim, but here we go. Survival is currently the worst performing DPS specc. With a requirement to think further ahead than most other speccs, if not all other speccs, to get to the middle of the pack on the DPS meter (usually, reaching for the top of the DPS meters often seems like a impossible task.). It is a specc filled with overlapping abilities, which very often puts you in a position where you might make the wrong decision for what ability to use. Which in turn screws you over on DPS output. This might result in a minor DPS loss or a huge downfall on your DPS. The overlapping abilities can also be very overwhelming, forcing a player to go with a simpler 'rotation', aka Flanking Strike, Mongoose Bite and Lacerate spam, with the occasional use of other abilities. This means the player(s) simply can't use the specc to its full potential, making it dull and boring. With that said though, I personally like a complicated specc, but this is too much for most players. And the punishment for doing a misjudgement of what to use, or for simply being really unlucky with your mongoose bite resets, is too huge, and difficult to recover from. But you ended up with giving us a flat out 3% bandaid buff, which might've just been a 0.1% buff as the problems with the core of the specc is still present. Some sample 'fixes': Bake T19 2PC into the specc, to minimalise the RNG of mongoose bite further. Which is a counter to the punishment of making a wrong judgement. Combine Raptor Strike and Lacerate, so that when you deal dmg with Raptor Strike, you apply the Lacerate DoT. This means that if players choose the talent "Serpent Sting", they will now apply a DoT dealing nature damage in addition to the bleed DoT, Lacerate. In essence making Raptor Strike apply a poisonous wound. Bake "Way of the Mok'Nathal" into the specc, but consider to tie it to Flanking Strike instead of Raptor Strike. Replace "Way of the Mok'Nathal" with a talent that focuses around Mongoose Bite, a chance to give two Mongoose Fury stacks for instance. Or a talent that focuses on your pet. Bake "Aspect of the Beast" into the specc and replace the talent with something that focuses on your melee abilities, something simple, like reducing the cost on one of your abilities or something along those lines. This is because there are already two talents that focuses on pet or traps in that tier. Carve is a very useless ability, replace it with Dragonsfire Grenade, and make the current talent focus on Dragonsfire Grenade, further empowering it. This is because survival, in most cases, focus on either AoE or single target, rarely are we any good at cleave (2-4 targets). But keep it so that when you choose the Butchery talent, it replaces Dragonsfire Grenade, forcing the hunter to still have to choose what DPS style to focus on, single target, cleave or AoE. For the T20 4PC, this might be too late, but have it rather focus on Mongoose Fury instead of Mongoose bite. Further increasing the dmg by Mongoose Bite per stack of Mongoose Fury. Which would enable survival hunters to have DPS peaks that are more similar to other melee DPS-ers, but still tied to a survivals unique damage rampup through Mongoose Fury. Say for instance, each Mongoose Fury stack further increase your Mongoose Bite dmg by 5 or 10 percent. This is what I can think of per now. I really hope that there will be put more focus onto survival, as I personally really enjoy the idea behind the specc. The synergy between the hunter and his pet in close combat. A agile hunter whom got a filled toolkit, traps, harpoon and so forth. Remember that this post is based on a subjective point of view, and the ideas are something that hopefully will get a discussion started. I originally made the post here: 1d
1d The Lead of Class Developers must get Fired! Over 6 months and they proved they are just clueless, careless and do not bother to even investigate a problem at all. Even small tiny businesses compare the performance of the services offered to their customers. While those incompetent class developers pathetically failed to fix the huge percentage gap in raid dps between class specs over many many months, which even gets specs kicked from raiding. Don't you know how to test the dps results of all specs before releasing dozens and dozens of patches or they didn't teach you how? Or what the heck are you doing all these months? When class developers take over 6 months to fix under performing specs with "3% damage increase" and failing to realize the problem is with single target dps in raids. This is more than evidence that you are not worth the job! You are a failure and you need to get fired! Obviously those amateur developers who keep ruining the game are completely disconnected from players and isolating themselves the community. They do not care to the examine issues and they just listen to their inner circle of players. Not to mention the loads of complaints in forums on classes, specs and pvp issues etc. You are lucky you have people complaining which is free feedback on your poor job performance. It's been so long and you are just repulsively careless. Those developers have been pampered and sugar coated(like you'd obviously see in posts below) and they really do deserve to be "penalized" to take this seriously. It is clear that no one is assessing the performance of those developers at all. You choose Activision Blizzard, to keep listening to your poor performing developers or your subscribers.Erode33 1d
1d Resto Druids Talent Spring Blossoms is bugged On yesterdays Mythic sisters progression I realized an issue with the restoration druids talent "Spring Blossoms". TLDR: Spring Blossoms is the factor that determines which target gets healed by Efflorescence. So if a target has the SB HoT, but is not at full health, it CANNOT be healed by Efflo because of the HoT. For those unfamiliar with it - Spring Blossoms makes your Efflorescence leave a small HoT on the targets it heals. That means that on every tick of Efflorescence, 3 targets will be affected by the Spring Blossoms HoT. Since it has a duration of only 6 seconds, its usually not possible to get SB rolling on the entire Raid. This however changes if you use Flourish as your lv 100 talent (which is your default choice in 99% of the raids). Flourish extends the duration of all active HoTs by 6 seconds and thus allowing you to get SB rolling on the entire raid. And this is where the problem begins. Due to the mechanic of SB, Efflorescence always tries to heal targets that are not already affected by SB to maximize the HoT uptime. Since all of our raiders are affected by SB, Efflorescence starts to heal all kinds of pets, demons and other summoned creatures, because those are the only targets where the SB HoT is not present. This leads to alot of misplaced healing, especially during phases where you want to maximize your healing with Flourish. Proof can be found in this log:,26&source=4,3&type=healing&ability=81269 On the left (Neroky) is my healing without the SB talent, which leads to Efflorescence only healing raid members, because they are not at 100% life. On the right side however (Dschadscha) you can see that his Efflorescence heals alot of useless pets and other stuff (mostly overhealing them, since they are full health anyways). This is due to the fact that he uses Flourish to extend existing SB HoTs on the raid, leading to everyone beeing affected by it. That results in Efflorescence healing the pets. This log is especially good to show this issue since we both used Efflo 16 times, and we both used Swiftmend 20 times (Druids use swiftmend to empower Efflorescence with their 4pc), but my Efflorescence heals almost double the amount of his, while mine is doing 31% overhealing and his is doing 60% overhealing. So please Blizzard, fix the Spring Blossoms talent in a way that it doesn't affect pets and summoned creatures anymore but instead just refreshes the HoT on raid members, because in its current state its not just useless, its effectively lowering your healing! WOULD PLEASE SOMEONE BE SO KIND AND POST THAT ON US FORUMS, SINCE I ONLY PLAY ON EU?Neroky0 1d
2d Restricting us to a weapon type This might be wrong place, but as it is an issue that affects every class, I figure why not. Legion came and gave us artifact weapons (I dont enjoy it, but k) and it also restricted us to 1 weapon type (for most). Could u please change this? Allow us to change the weapon to any of the weapon types our class original was allowed to use. Restricting us to 1 weapon type really makes gameplay sad and alot of our transmogs no longer function due to it. I hope blizzard will change this soon. Do u hope that as well? feel free to leave a comment if u feel the same way, or if u dont want them to, explain why. Thank u!Thyru3 2d
2d Frost Mage feedback (7.2.5/7.3) Gameplay Travel time and impact timing The recent changes to Flurry have been great. Frostbolt, Ebonbolt and even Glacial Spike can be Shattered much more reliably, and there’s no need to dance around the 10 yd threshold anymore. However, a few problems still remain. Ice Lance’s travel speed should be 50 yd/s according to the spell data, but it’s still 38 yd/s in game. This leads to various issues. The most prominent one is that the Flurry/Ice Lance combo ceases to work at certain ranges and Haste values. Here’s a quick calculation:,+0.75)+%2B+d+%2F+38,+h+%3E%3D+1,+d+%3E%3D+0%7D The combo is reliable only if the distance is shorter than roughly 39 yd. After that point, you need to have Haste values at certain intervals for the combo to work. At 102 yd or above, it’s impossible to pull off. For example, spells can travel up to 90 yd on Immerseus and at that point, your Haste needs to be between 62% and 151%. Fallen Avatar is another boss with this problem. Changing Ice Lance’s travel speed to 50 yd/s should solve all these issues:,+0.75)+%2B+d+%2F+50,+h+%3E%3D+1,+d+%3E%3D+0%7D The fix to double Ice Lance was largely successful. While it is still possible via Shimmer, it’s only rarely done in practice. If the Shimmer combo is still unwanted, the changes should happen to Flurry/Winter’s Chill/Ice Lance; not to Shimmer. Glacial Eruption is also missing the Shatter window at certain Haste values. This could be solved with a shorter delay. Finally, Water Jet is another source of travel time troubles; more on that below. Ideally, these interactions shouldn’t rely on actual travel times, but that’s something that would better be addressed in the next expansion, not in a class balance patch.Norrinir19 2d
2d Can we... Have the old talent system? The excuse was that it had "too many passives", well the current ones have 50%+ passives aswell, wasnt this new talent system supposed to battle this? The only problem with the old one was the fact that it cost way too much to respec and wasnt possible to do so in between fights, creating a "cookie cutter build". Now that the cost is next to nothing we could go back to it. Instead of having to farm artifact power for a full expansion, having depth in the trees would make the game so much more fun and you could see some "strange" builds that become really good. tyJinskdh14 2d
2d Tank balance(lack of) - Guardian OPness still New tier, guardian still reigns supreme god-mode undisputed tank kings. Blizz nerf guardians magic reduction and claim they will be in line with other tanks then make a raid with virtually no magic damage... Pala, DH and warr still trash for another tier DK/Monk is on good/OK level Is the goal to make all lesser tank spec re-roll fotm to be viable? Will guardian be brought in line this expansion? My guess is no, still time to re-roll if you want to get a tank-spot... Yeah I am salty as !@#$... Being put on bench for raid-spot for 2 tiers for a bear makes game feel kinda uninspiring. I must be an idiot that haven't re-rolled?Lofar10 2d
2d I main paladin. I played all 3 specs from begining. 1. Retribution Worst single target dps, nerfed t19 set, mastery all over t20 set. Best performance takes lives of party members, not your gear or skill, but even with 30%+ retribution uptime you won't be the best. I understand the slow tactic with Blessing of the Ashbringer (4% strength), but hell it's makes you worthless until end game highest ilvls. 2. Holy Worst now overall, t20 basically yells "AoE heal for struggling" but without 2 HPalas with Beacon of Lightbringer instead of Beacon of Fate you alone no longer "Main Tank Healer". 3. Protection Dead on Heroic KJ by 5th stack of Fel Claw even with 34% haste with 3 sotr charges saved without "Cheat-Death" cd. Overall performs pretty bad in fights where is a lot of environment damage(not coming from the boss). Like breaking more than 2 spires on Goroth or Unbound chaos from melees on Fallen Avatar. Thx to the lowest hp pool, lowest uptime of mitigation and inability to do the mitigation being away from enemies (SotR 4.5 sec, most of other tanks 6 sec). What should I do now, blizzard? Reroll from 100?Джестерино6 2d
2d Paladin, Holy power, Ret Blizzard, please bring back the paladin from wod and mop. Im sure im not the only one who miss the holy power from both Holy and Prot paladin, and why did you make ret like this? ;-; For the love of god and all thats holy (hehe) Please, bring back the paladin!Sãrah0 2d
2d MW Monks and Mythic Raiding Hello all, hope everyone is well. I made a post in the 7.1.5 PTR forums when they first went up about the state of our spec and there was a lot of relevant, well communicated discussion going on in there. After conversing frequently with a Blizzard CM recently (thanks for your time, effort and responses, it is majorly appreciated. I didn't want to mention you by name as I didn't think it my place to do so) I have decided to write up a more in depth thread that hopefully is better written and easier to read. I'd like to start off by saying that I genuinely love playing the Monk class and I have thoroughly enjoyed the direction that Mistweaver has taken in Legion in regards to being a pure healing spec. I'm not one of the top Mistweavers in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but I love playing this class and progression raiding. I've mained a riad healer since Vanilla (R.Shaman > Holy Paladin > Holy Priest > R.Shaman > MW Monk) and have exclusively played a R.Druid in PvP since TBC. I welcome all kinds of feedback and discussion to this post and encourage any MW who plays the class frequently to share their experience with the community, but please keep it on topic and most importantly of all, keep it civil. I also wish to add that I will be covering a wide range of 'issues' that have been talked about in my previous thread on the PTR forums and from various sources such as the Monk Discord channel, other WoW Forums (reddit, MMO-Champ, monk blogs, etc). As I stated in the last post I made, please do not take what I have said as 'Fix all of these issues' That would be absolutely insane. I would simply like to draw attention to things that myself and many in the MW community have issue with, which we feel jeopardises our position in mythic raids, especially progression and hampers our class. Table of contents : 1. Sheilun, Staff of Mists 2. Talents 3. Our Toolkit 4. Mana consumption 5. Legendaries 6. Proposed 7.2 changesAernoth524 2d
2d Will you buff Vengeance survivability? That's by far the least used tank in mythic raid progression. It lacks survivability compared to others and is totally unpopular it seems. Can we expect some changes to address that issue? I have 2 suggestions - Make "Charred Warblades" artifact trait heal for 20% of fire dmg dealt rather than 15% - Make "Demonic wards" increase armor by 85% rather than 75%. I believe with those 2 changes we will clearly be positive about seeing more DH tanks in raid progression simply because their self-sustainability will receive a slight boost and most of all their armor will provide for about 5%-8% additional physical dmg reduction. That's more than enough to soothe the large damage taken and spikiness.Bornog7 2d
2d Havoc Discussions - 7.2.5 Mechanics and Feel The revert on the change to Demon Blades was probably the one thing I feel should have been avoided. Everything else would have been better to adjust if you wanted to change anything further. With this revert, you have forced us into a spot where we still do not have the consistency to give you quality feedback. We will be giving you either really good feedback, because we had good luck, or absolutely terrible feedback, because we were forced to do nothing but wait for fury from Demon Blades again. The 60% proc rate of 12-20 leads to a feeling of "feast or famine," where you either are waiting on fury during your cooldowns due to no procs (either by AA misses or non procs), or you feel like you literally cannot spend all of your fury. This was mostly solved by the 100% proc rate, which, combined with the new 18 second duration chaos blades meant you would always have fury during your cooldowns, which lead to less feelsbad moments. Numerically, the two were basically equal, so it seems to be a mechanical only change - and one that seems to be a step backwards. Also, the inconsistency of this implementation of Demon Blades swings the variance too far in the wrong direction. The stark difference between good and bad luck - which cannot be manipulated in any way by good or bad play - makes it very difficult for the average player to identify when things are actually going wrong, or when they had poor luck. This is exacerbated by healthy RNG elsewhere in the spec (read - Chaos Strike crits) that when combined has an unpleasant playstyle effect on players. This is especially noticeable when you read feedback from players that identify the massive swings between positive and negative streaks of RNG during cooldowns - something that has by now become a core part of the specs gameplay. For feedback on Prepared, Vengeful Retreat's cool-down of 15 seconds, and the 10 seconds it takes to receive the fury, is too long to be worthwhile to take. Over 1 minute, it only generates 400 fury, and that's assuming you can use it every time it is off cool-down, without delay, from the 0 second mark to the 60 second mark. When boss mechanics that require specific positioning are included in this situation, its fury generation decreases, since we may not be able to use it as often as necessary. We also run the risk of being out of boss range, or away from a priority target that needs to die quickly, because of Vengeful Retreat's movement. The 100% Demon Blades was providing us with 409 Fury per minute, and the feeling of consistency we have been lacking for the majority of the expansion. It allows us to maintain specific positioning required for certain mechanics, as well as the ability to prepare ourselves in advance for burst phases on priority targets, by giving us a consistent resource generation to pool with. I ask you to please reconsider this revert. I love this class, but eventually everyone gets tired of having a random number determine their fate. Please return Demon Blades to 100% chance, so that we can gain the consistency required to give you quality feedback on the performance of the class. Sincerely, Kalino, Zarania, Wordup, Strifelol, Lazel, Fragnance and the DH Community US Link :éïna346 2d
3d BM spec alignment I see nothing on the first couple of pages so I feel I should make this. Firstly, the hunter class as a whole is in an atrocious place and I don't know how devs don't see this. Take one look at any logging site and at all percentiles, hunters are not where they need to be as a pure DPS class. Sure, MM is in the top 10 but that's only with very optimised gear and an extremely RNG dependant spec. Take a look at BM and SV hunters at the 90th percentile and where are we? Sandwiching Frost DK's at the very bottom... Now frost is getting some pretty major buffs incoming, but what exactly do you intend to do with a spec that's below even them? Or are you just intending on forcing every hunter that wants to compete or not get benched into rolling an MM spec?Monolithics4 3d
3d Everyday I keep searching Everyday I'm on youtube searching for new 7.3 holy paladin animations - yet nothing to be seen! How come the other healers get new animations, and we as holy paladins are stuck with our vanilla looking animations. (Light of dawn) portraying a cone in front of you to be healed, yet heals everyone around you - that animation is just pure king! And where is our option to have our class mount be used as our mobility spell (the pony, don't remember name) Makes me wanna reroll priest for anims lol.Kanyeblessed5 3d
3d Frost Death Knight in 7.3 The next PTR build should have a round of changes aimed at addressing various concerns with Frost. The major issues we're focused on are: The spec is too dominated by Breath of Sindragosa (which has knock-on effects on talent choice throughout the tree). Breath of Sindragosa, when you do use it, can be maintained for far too long. In addition to causing the talent/legendary lock-in around it, it means the demand for continuous time on target is very strict for extended periods of time. The spec has many talents/legendaries that (individually or taken together) flood it with resources. Breath contributes to this by encouraging you to take all of them, but it's also a problem on its own. Talent balance generally has to be reviewed, especially after addressing all of the time. We're trying to limit the scope of the changes in the patch, to address the above without opening up the core rotation for changes. All damage abilities increased by 27% Hungering Rune Weapon (L58) and Glacial Advance (L100) swapped positions Breath of Sindragosa damage increased by 10% We want to preserve the identity of Breath of Sindragosa, including the steady resource drain being the main limiting factor, and the expression of skill in optimizing around that. So in trying to avoid less natural solutions like capping the duration or redesigning how it works, we're trying to limit the talent/legendary synergies that cause huge variance in how long Breath can be maintained. And breaking the Breath of Sindragosa/Hungering Rune Weapon interaction, on its own, goes a very long way toward making Breath's duration more reasonable again. DPS adjustment for the change is being put mostly into the baseline spec rather than into the power of Breath, because it's currently so far ahead of other setups. Murderous Efficiency (L56->L57), Frozen Pulse (L57->L90), and Runic Attenuation (L90->L56) swapped positions Hungering Rune Weapon duration 12s (from 15s) and additionally grants 20% haste Bugfix: Hungering Rune Weapon correctly generates a Rune every 1.5s instead of every 1s Murderous Efficiency chance 50% (from 65%) Horn of Winter cooldown 45s (from 30s) Koltira’s Newfound Will generates 1 Rune (from 2) and now causes Obliterate to deal 10% extra damage Using even a small subset of all of the above effects causes the rotation to be quite flooded. They are all being either weakened in power (with compensation to the baseline spec), or given non-resource-granting effects for part of their value. In addition, the two most egregious offenders (Murderous Efficiency and Horn of Winter) can no longer be taken together. Overall, there should now be a much broader set of talent combinations that produce a good-feeling rotation in which there are resources to do something on most GCDs, but you're still able to spend them down. Including, for example, during Hungering Rune Weapon, which is overly hectic or frustrating right now when you can't spend all of its resources. In addition, the talent rearrangement puts Frozen Pulse on a row with two predominantly AoE talents, which is a better home for it. The Frozen Pulse/Icy Talons ("machinegun") synergy is preserved, but can no longer be taken alongside Runic Attenuation as well. NB: The Hungering Rune Weapon bug may be fixed on live shortly as well, after we test the fix and analyze the impact. Icy Talons bonus 15% (from 10%) Shattering Strikes bonus 60% (from 40%) Freezing Fog effect 20% (from 30%) Obliteration duration 10s (from 8s) Frozen Pulse damage reduced by 39% Minor talent rebalancing to match the above rearrangements and talent changes; numbers are likely to be updated as the rest of the changes settle into place. EDIT: Added Frozen Pulse change which was missed when I copied changes into the post earlier. As with the other changes, this is meant to make Frozen Pulse balanced within its new row, and meant to be accounted for in the overall DPS increase above. Breath can retain its role as a talent that encourages building around it to some degree (and its synergies with things like Runic Attenuation, Koltira's Newfound Will, and Seal of Necrofantasia are preserved). But without the overpowering Hungering Rune Weapon interaction, there is a lot more room for other builds to compete, and we've buffed the spec's baseline damage a great deal to shift the landscape towards all talents being closer together in DPS. As always, we'll continue to examine all of these changes based after people can start to test them on PTR.Sigma56 3d
3d please give Pursuit of Justice baseline 20% increase passive movement speed 5% per holy power pooled gives rets more mobility without a gap closer win winAddiez8 3d
3d @Sigma: re AMA and on the topic of scaling. In the most recent reddit AMA, an interesting discussion ended up popping late; not because it was unimportant but rather, I believe, because you were trying to answer it properly. I will adress this in particular to sigma and quote you a lot, to begin with by this: ... I hope to provide enough for you to enjoy your job here. The topic was class scaling, and wether or not looking at the data/simulations were an accurate way to assert either.Although this will again be centred on Windwalkers, I will try to make most things generic enough than a lot of it could be applied to many specs. I will start by saying that as you said you would, I will put on my scientist hat, which I don’t really take off, and avoid logical missteps. I’ll avoid assuming that generic windwalker guides provide perfect information for every scenario, that players are playing perfectly at any level, that simulations are an accurate representation of gameplay performance, that public logs are a full picture of the game, I’ll avoid forgetting about windwalker’s aura buffs to other players (master of combinations and windwalking.) However I know you’ll find mistakes in my reasoning anyways, because this is such a volatile matter it is hard to treat.And to begin with, I’ll go through your last answer, and state where I disagree partially or totally. ... It is very interesting to look at the relative slope of windwalker’s performance compared to other specs. However, as months go by, gear increase is obviously not the only thing affecting the data sample in logs. The population who has access to clearing content increases, just like the fact that more and more “alts” are able to clear. This has an effect on the data. Also, the way encounters are dealt with changes drastically. But also, mid tier patches happen with somewhat relevant changes. Windwalker has for instance been subject to regular “band-aid” buffs mid tiers. These skew the data: for sure wind walker barely performed worse as tier 19 went on, but it received a buff to it’s abilities mid patch, and allthough the two most popular legendaries saw their effects reduced, one of them saw such a substantial change (the emperor’s capacitor) that it’s use became overwhelming in the following patch. Just the same, 7.2 unlocked new traits, modifying the relative balance of specs greatly. Split personnality is a trait that affects windwalker’s behavior so much we cannot look at the data and ignore these changes.As I stated, as a tier goes on, encounters are dealt with in a different fashion. AoE becomes less relevant as fights get shorter usually: for instance, if a fight has regular spawns of adds, the shorter the fight, the lesser the amount of extra health you have to deal with. Spellblade Aluriel’s health did not vary between week one and 7.2.5. However, we went from killing 6 waves of adds on mythic difficulty to only 3: if the fight got 50% shorter, the adds probably lived 75% shorter. This is obviously something you’re aware of, and a big reasons classes you force to rely on cleave behave worse and worse as time goes by. Just the same, bloodlust uptime goes up as patch lasts longer and fights become shorter. This historically has not benefited windwalkers as much as others. Just the same, I could show this kind of factors usually make shadow priests fall out of flavour and Arcane mages perform better. A bit of a simplification but you’ll find some truth in this I’m sure. I will also admit the most recent iteration of wind walker with tier 20 and the set up we have been running at the highest level of performances has way less of these issues to some extent: with tier 20 4pieces bonus, we are way stronger than before in shorter fights with higher bloodlust uptime, and less reliant on adds to perform well as our AoE isn’t as strong as before on 2-4 targets.Pandanaconda12 3d
4d Elemental 7.2.5 Discussion ...Arianrhod99 4d
4d Frost DK/Ret changes, not enough? Sorry to be that guy who comes forth and asks for a little extra, but frankly, you've broken most your promises regarding class balancing this expansion so why not go a little further? I would like to ask those of you who believe these slight changes will be enough to bring Frost DK and Ret paladins up to "the middle of the pack crew" because at this point I am guessing that is what Blizzards intention is, to close the gap. And yes we are underperforming specs. But is it REALLY enough with these hotfixes? Also, on a sidenote, no further balancing for moonkins or affliction warlocks? This has been heavily discussed, I mean, have you seen how they are performing? On a sidenote I would like to inform Blizzard that there is a cheese tactic with the helmet for warriors that has been heavily exploited before every single boss encounter, and that is simply that you can Bladestorm and gain the helmet buff, then swap to ravager and put it on a 0 second cd but keep the helmet buff pre-pull. Maybe something you overlooked when you nerfed the helmet for warriors? You seem to have no issue at all fixing Frost DKs Hungering rune weapon not generating runes at the correct rate, why not fix this and revert the nerf to the legendary?Cóve0 4d
4d Pending Arms changes July 25th Short and sweet: why now? Storms eye, fine it is a very strong Lego, still though you need to make these damn changes BEFORE raid tiers. Ayala's.. I don't get this one though, from what myself and others are seeing we're only getting about 8 procs a fight out of the thing and it has a ton of crit, not a stat we want. Back in 7.1.5 I feel I remember you swatting this thing for about 40%-50% on the proc chance so back when it used to have an average of 16 or so procs we're now sat at about 4. That's a QUARTER. A 400% nerf since conception. Did you honestly overtune it that much? What reasons are there behind such heavy numbers being thrown out the window constantly? Did you actually source data and test this ring at all? It's not 'ruined' as I'm sure many people are screaming right now but seriously we NEED an explanation behind such big number adjustments and PROOF that you acknowledge the potential impact of, once again, pulling this crap half way through a raid. Also no mention of a third stat added for compensation.. so ya.Roponmatsu0 4d
4d Awful class design makes me not wanna play. Seriously what happened to the class design this expansion?Pruning,passive abilities doing 10 things for you everywhere.And then there are rng legendaries and this whole "class fantasy".I like your changes to the specs in 7.2.5...but you made changes to like 5 specs and totally ignored everyone else.So many specs are just not really underperfoming in % but they are mechanically broken.People were waiting since 7.1.5,you ignored them in " the biggest patch ever 7,2" and told them to wait till 7.2.5 where you will "fix" classes.Fire mages are stacking haste instead of crit,yes haste,Arcane mages doesnt want mastery that much anymore do I have to tell more?You can buff mages by 10% and their broken design will start to show after some time again.You also lied with the improved communication,you literally responded couple of times to your 5 favored specs and most of the responses were"yea some bug has been hotfixed"soon after once again you went radio silence.I don't know how many people are working on classes but either you guys are lazy and dont want to touch classes or you really need more people.As a player playing fire mage,stacking haste and praying for the rng legendaries that require me to perfom well I will probably unsub till 7.3.5 And god,you dont want to see my face at the end of this year when you will ignore mages again. [TLDR] I love this game but lazy design of classes is just making me not wanna play,you need to start fixing more specs per patch,currently a lot of specs are just mechanically broken and not a single buff can fix them. P.S Sorry for my poor English,also keep the convo civil I want devs to see how important class design is.Revoker36 4d
4d Tanks banned One thing makes me very upset. Blizzard does not have a problem with the arena to allow fight in 2v2 team like paladin and druid resto. Either prist and shaman heal. Why in that case we cant join as two tanks. Healer does not spoil the balance but the tank already do?Oriatsu1 4d
4d Some aff/destro survivability suggestions I've seen alot of talk about a versa increase to aff lock. Tho I do agree it's needed against melee; I strongly disagree they need it against casters. It would make them far to tanky for caster if they buff versa to the amount needed to survive melee onslaught. So, I would suggest another way to increase survival to melee, yet leaving them as they are to caster (wich a flatout versa buff can't do) Give demon skin a new passive; Upon beeing struck by a melee attack, ur dmg taken is reduced by x% for x seconds). Now why do it like that and not just give them a passive physical dmg reduction? Well the problem here is that the melee nowadays have so much magic dmg baked into their spec, DH does chaos, enh nature and fire, assa poison, DK shadow. It would have next to no effect. Doing it like I mentioned before would leave tankiness against casters unaffected; while reducing dmg from all melee (since they all have white auto attacks) Another idea would be, like mentioned a thousand times before, Soul Link. The only problem I see tho is the pet beeing insta gibbed or purely dying cause of the dmg transferred to it. We would need a new ability that makes us instantly summon or main pet back (at the cost of a shard, no cd) The reason why I say no cd is because even voidwalker wouldn't cut it (still gets raped instantly). Now where do place such an ability. I would put it in the row of our other pet related talents. Replacing pet sac (cause honestly who in their right minds takes that garbage) That would open up the talent row to actually have a choice in it. Rather then just going grimoire cause the rest is useless. It is in the pve talent section tho, and tbh theres not much use for it in pve.Rhumor11 4d
4d Enhancement in 7.3 Hello, Following a really successful 7.2.5 feedback cycle, myself and a few of the other long term Enhancement players have had some really interesting discussions about 7.3. Whilst a lot of our damage toolkit is much better, for the purpose of raiding, we've come up with areas of concern that we'd like to address on behalf of the community. We all thoroughly enjoy playing this spec and want it to be the best and most balanced it could possibly be whilst maintaining the heart of the design. The main goal of this feedback is to identify areas we think the spec can have issues with; and as such we'd like you to focus on the problems instead of any proposed solutions. Feedback in this post has been compiled from: Wordup <Echoes> | 9 Years Played Purge <Addiction> | 12 Years Played Rusahh <Addiction> | 7 Years Played Hekili <MetaCortex> | 4 Years Played Ryethe <Midwinter> | 8 Years Played Gengi <Divergence> | 5 Years Played Bay <Crisp> | 9 Years Played This group maintains the majority of Enhancement Theorycrafting resources currently available to the public in most channels. Additional shout-out to the Enhancement MVPs in the Earthshrine Discord for all their feedback and support. We've consolidated our feedback down to a google doc same as the last few PTR cylces; please see the posts below or if you'd like to save a copy, the google doc located at US Forum sister post: [] I understand as usual a lot to take in here and we sincerely appreciate any time taken to read our feedback. We'd like to open this discussion up to others to get the ball rolling and hopefully get the community more involved in helping to fix some of these issues. You'll notice we're mostly very happy this go-around! No more Stormbringer complaints, and personally I think the 7.2.5 rework that happened was a resounding success so major props to the design team on that. However, we do feel that these are all critical problems in the raiding landscape still. Thanks for reading - WordupWerdup11 4d
5d Soul of Highlord(Prot pally) Change given talent from Holy shield to either Crusader's Judgement or First Avenger. I don't wanna get benched for doing no damage as ret. I don't wanna get benched for being dead 'cause I got no active mitigation left as prot. I don't wanna be a second holy pala in raid, since it's just dumb. I don't wanna say to my raid leader that my Holy Shield with freaking 40% block didn't block this time so I died. I want to prevent my death by using active mitigation in time(SotR uptime supported by Crusader's Judgement) and have enough hp(50% of Avenger's shield damage supported by First Avenger). I don't want stupid rng involved in tanking, I want to have control for situation as tank. With all my love to my dearest Fel Claw creators :*Джестерино0 5d
5d Monks and Spinning Crane Kick cosmetic. Look, i am not a hardcore raider and i don't want to be, so i mostly care about the good-looking, fun and flashy things from this game, Spinning Crane Kick is one of them. So, once MoP came out, this spell was the very reason i created a Monk, i don't care how good it was, it just felt very satisfying to kick your enemies in the face for constant seconds, i get why it was nerfed, i really do, but 1.4 seconds of the spell is incredibly low, and unsatisfying. Could we have a cosmetic version of this ability that lasts longer?Thedraes0 5d
6d World pvp suggestion Many people want to make dueling viable with giving resilience which i think is fine to implement back into pvp gear, but the current state of healers and tanks in world pvp would make it horror movie with resilience . So my suggestion is add resilience to pvp gear but also give healers and tanks vulnerability (increased damage taken from dps).Insoul3 6d
6d Retribution Paladin need improvements 1. Remove Divine Steed (nobody wants it anyway) 2. Re-introduce Long Arm of the Law - Casting Judgement removes all roots and slows and increases movement speed by 60% for 3 seconds. 3. Change our Mastery so it is no longer a carbon copy of Arms Warrior Mastery 4. Introduce a new Mastery - Spending Holy Power grants Vengeance (new Mastery) - Increasing our Holy Damage and Critical Strike by % (mastery) - Lasting 10 seconds - Simple and effective, Can even give it the silver glowing hands like Vengeance had in Vanilla. 5. Remove Holy Wrath - Replace it with "Hammer of Wrath" - our old execute!!!! 6. Remove the Cool-down on Word of Glory 7. Give execution Sentence its Heal Back, Remove is Holy Power cost and give it a 1 minute cool-down 8. Judgement of Light removed and replaced with "Crusader Aura" - 2 minute cool-down, Grants all friendly targets within 20 yards 100% increase movement speed for 3 seconds.Addiez9 6d