Retribution paladin descent in PVE
Retri paladin was very good since 7.1.5 patch has been released. After few nerfs was still pretty good since RETRIBUION passive gave him good advantage. Since many raiding groups learn fights over the time, retribution paladins fell quite behind all other classes. Latest rankings shows approx. 15th place, depends on fight type. I consider it quite disturbing. I believe people who made this change to happen still watch the numbers descent and will fix it.48
Blood DK Feedback (long, concise, insight?)
Hey, wanted to give some Feedback of the current state of Blood and what Problems we are imho having right now. General Thoughts: The Change to Boneshield Charges only being consumed by connected melee attacks in 7.1.5 was a huge improvement. Playing blood became way more fun because we got more control overall and dont have to spend so much runes just to keep BS up like in EN. Overall DK right now is not 'bad' and is capable of doing every Content. A lot of Players - me included - just feel bad because we are comparing ourselves with the Monsters Guardians are right now. But there are still some issues, mostly about talents and the artifact. A lot of these things have already been mentioned in different Topics in the US and EU Forums, i´ll try to summarize as good as i can, so Overall it will be a long one but i'll try to be concise in the different Points ;) I will often refer to Troxism, imho the best Blood DK Theorycrafter. Talents: In general there are imho not enough meaningful choices in our Talent tree. In many tiers there is a best Talent for all situations, no real diversity. Before going into the different tiers i really like to emphasize Soulgorge. Soulgorge was supposed to be the advanced Talent for skilled players. Soulgorge is unusable in 5man Dungeons (Mobs do not live Long enough) and with a lot of Targets the Rotation is just a complete mess. If you play it absolutely perfect it is a small DPS increase on 1-2 Targets. But as soon as you make one mistake you end up hurting yourself. There may be situations where a Boss transitions, you have to run out with an artillery debuff etc. and you cannot Keep Soulgorge rolling. On top of that you have to spend 2 GCDs at fixed timers (Soulgorge, Death Caress) and may not be able to DS in this time if you drop low. So the tiny increase for perfect usage is just not worth the risk. And everybody who tested it once knows how annoying the usage of Soulgorge really is. So right now - looking at NH parses from LFR up to Mythic - no Blood DK used it in a single Boss Kill. You probably have even more Data looking into Soulgorge Usage. I have no Suggestion how to fix this, imho Soulgorge needs a rework, maybe something for 7.2.5. Tier 56 Going into Legion we took Heartbreaker 100% of the time. In 7.1.5 Heartbreaker got nerfed, Bloodworms and Blooddrinker got buffed. Right now it is Blooddrinker 100% of the time. Even in Dungeons with a lot of Targets Blooddrinker beats Heartbreaker. Im quoting Trox here: ... A lot of players dont like Bloodworms because they are random and therefore unreliable, also Bloodworms do not scale with number of Targets. Possible suggestions: Heartbreaker needs a small buff so it is better in Aoe/Cleave Situations than Blooddrinker. A lot of ppl still use Heartbreaker because they are not very much into Theorycrafting or reading guides. And when one looks at this row (s)he will come to the conclusion that Heartbreaker is the Talent for Aoe/Cleave. So this is some kind of trap for inexperienced players.16
MW Monks and Mythic Raiding
Hello all, hope everyone is well. I made a post in the 7.1.5 PTR forums when they first went up about the state of our spec and there was a lot of relevant, well communicated discussion going on in there. After conversing frequently with a Blizzard CM recently (thanks for your time, effort and responses, it is majorly appreciated. I didn't want to mention you by name as I didn't think it my place to do so) I have decided to write up a more in depth thread that hopefully is better written and easier to read. I'd like to start off by saying that I genuinely love playing the Monk class and I have thoroughly enjoyed the direction that Mistweaver has taken in Legion in regards to being a pure healing spec. I'm not one of the top Mistweavers in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but I love playing this class and progression raiding. I've mained a riad healer since Vanilla (R.Shaman > Holy Paladin > Holy Priest > R.Shaman > MW Monk) and have exclusively played a R.Druid in PvP since TBC. I welcome all kinds of feedback and discussion to this post and encourage any MW who plays the class frequently to share their experience with the community, but please keep it on topic and most importantly of all, keep it civil. I also wish to add that I will be covering a wide range of 'issues' that have been talked about in my previous thread on the PTR forums and from various sources such as the Monk Discord channel, other WoW Forums (reddit, MMO-Champ, monk blogs, etc). As I stated in the last post I made, please do not take what I have said as 'Fix all of these issues' That would be absolutely insane. I would simply like to draw attention to things that myself and many in the MW community have issue with, which we feel jeopardises our position in mythic raids, especially progression and hampers our class. Table of contents : 1. Sheilun, Staff of Mists 2. Talents 3. Our Toolkit 4. Mana consumption 5. Legendaries 6. Proposed 7.2 changes230
Havoc DH PvP
Hello It's been a while DH are in this state and I thought this problem was going to be resolved. But Blizz did nothing yet so I post here : DH are way too strong overall in PVP. Damage is really high but that is not necessarily a problem. The problem is they have no counterplay, especially if you are caster. DH have infinite mobility, which means you can't get away from them. Even though they have this mobility, their interrupt is ranged!!! Also, Consume Magic is not treated as a spell, which means it can be cast while silenced and it can't be reflected. It also has more range than DK interrupt although DK interrupt IS actually a spell... DH also have 50% ranged aoe perma slow with throw glaive. It is also their main damaging ability although it is ranged which means they can still deal a lot of damage without being in melee range. They have a 5sec Aoe stun, and another 2sec stun with eruption if talented. On top of that, Eye of Leotheras just totally destroy casters : either you take an absurd amount of damage, or you can't do anything during 5 sec. And by the way, even if you do nothing the eye can still be triggered by some AOE DOT effects like Flame Patch from fire mages (bug?) DH have a regen, some defensive cooldown, a big HP pool and can get "out of arms way" with the PVP talent Rain from above (which also deals an absurd amount of damage). DH have an insane amount of burst, which means they can nearly 100%-0% you during the time of a stun if you are not a tanky class. As a caster it really feels like you can't do anything against them - and even if you get away few seconds you will still get interrupted or Eye of leotheras'ed Well, if you need to nerf one thing : Make consume magic melee or make it a spell. It will be way less frustrating. Reducing talented throw glaive slow duration to 2-3 sec would be really good too. Or reduce the slow amount like rogues. Bleed damage could be reduced in PvP also. Number tuning alone is not a healthy solution in this case but if you are too lazy to do anything else, just reduce DH agility by 20-25% ... Or stamina by 20-25%. Would be better than nothing. I feel like PvP templates are a bad thing because you often do tuning around PvP template instead of trying to fix the real designs/gameplay problems Feel free to share your thoughts9
Frost mage feedback
General thoughts and issues Frost plays really well at the moment. The hotfix to Brain Freeze made the rotation much smoother and generally more fun (thanks to Frostbolt/Ebonbolt combo being viable/optimal way to use Brain Freeze). I actually like that Flurry isn't "whack-a-mole" style of proc that you just use when the button lights up. The cooldown reduction on Frozen Orb also makes AoE more fun and satisfying. However, there are still a few problems. Travel time and impact timing Frostbolt and Ebonbolt still need some distance between you and your target (about 10 yd for Frostbolt, 13 yd for Ebonbolt) for the followup Flurry to shatter them. While much better than the previous 23 yd, this is still not ideal. Similarly, the followup Ice Lance only does full damage if your GCD is 1.4 s or lower, with the timing being more strict the further you stand. And on the other hand, if you're standing very close (or even running towards your target), it's possible to fit two Ice Lances into a single Winter's Chill if your GCD is short enough. Some possible solutions are at the very end of this post. Water Jet I like that Water Jet requires some thought to get the most out of it, but it's nearly impossible to use properly at very long distances or high haste. At that point, the travel time of Frostbolt becomes the deciding factor of getting two Fingers of Frost out of a single Water Jet. You can see a lot of mages switching to Lonely Winter for Krosus mostly because Water Jet stops reliably giving you both charges. One possible way to fix this is to give Water Jet more room for error. For example, increase its duration by 50% but limit it to only generating two charges of Fingers of Frost. Proc management Brain Freeze hotfix solved one of the major gameplay warts, but proc handling is still not perfect. Some Fingers of Frost charges are wasted simply because they happen right around Brain Freeze Flurry and the mage cannot react to them. Simple example is casting Frostbolt, Brain Freeze Flurry and Ice Lance - this sequence has 12% (16.8% with Frozen Touch) of wasting Fingers of Frost charge. This also happens when the FoF comes from a different source (active Frozen Orb, legendary gloves - though the latter can be played around and offers some gameplay depth). I'm not sure what the proper solution to this problem is, because simply refunding the Fingers of Frost charge would probably be too powerful. Perhaps a simple bonus to Ice Lance damage - not enough to make the mage go out of their way to launch Fingers of Frost Ice Lances into Winter's Chill, but enough to make the Fingers of Frost charge not completely wasted.34
Shadowpriest pvp feedback
Hey there. This is my first feedback post after beta, almost 8 month later. During legion beta i spend much time trying to provide constructive feedback to make shadow a viable and enjoyable spec in pvp. Sadly, right now i think it worse than i anticipated back in beta. Here is some data: http://www.xunamate.com/charts http://www.arenamate.net/representation-graphs Shadow spec representation is very low right now and continues to drop since 7.1.5. Right now it is just above arcane mage and outlaw rogue. This is especially bad because both mage and rogue have two other damage specs and priest only has one and no other option if you don't want to heal. Why is shadowpriest representation so low? The Voidform mechanic is not very pvp friendly. Getting interrupted, stunned or just having to move is very harmful for a shadowpriest. It feels very easy to counterplay a shadowpriest because there is not much they can do against melee train but it is very easy to shut down shadow. So it is very rewarding to focus the spriest to minimize their damage and because they have low mobility and are squishy. There is a honor talent called Edge of Insanity which is currently the only reason we see shadowpriests at all in 2200+ pvp. But Edge of Insanity limits the gameplay to completly ignore the voidform mechanic, which makes the spec much less enjoyable. Two 2 Golden Traits and two major damage abilities only work in voidform. In my opinion this is not a good design. Instead i would like to see pvp talents that actually improve the voidform design to be more viable in pvp. I know the devs don't like hearing suggestions how to fix something but I'm thinking of a honor talent that stops insanity drain during stuns, disorients and interrupts (Driven to Madness as additonal effect). And there could be a mechanic to make Void Eruption and Void Torrent be immune to interrupts (Void Origins as additonal effect) or punish melees for training shadow all game, every game (Edge of insanity redesigned). Our AoE pressure is already in a decent spot, even in pvp. Psychic Link or Mind Trauma further improve this while our single target not very scary. We have the lowest mobility and are the most squishy too. I'm okay with having niches and downsides but i think with the voidform mechanic it is too much. Honor talents should help but for shadow they don't. We don't need a DRing silence on our execute and Void Shift should be in the Void Shield tier and replaced with a mobility talent. A quick but efficient(hot)fix would be to make psyfiend shieldable again, increase our stamina and single target spells. This should increase SP representation again. To make Spriest enjoyable and delicate not only for the passionate and tryhard pvpers like me, more drastic changes to the core design of voidform and the toolkit are needed in form of honor talents. I don't want shadow to be a "fotm dominate all" spec with no counterplay. But the goal should be to make Shadow more rewarding and fun to play in pvp again. 52
Arcane Mage Wishlist
Although Arcane Mages are a rare breed, our performance in the Nighthold has been mixed and could use some tuning. A lot of problems with Caster DPS stems from the nature of Nighthold fights, but regardless, our Single Target damage could use a small bump. Our burst AoE is through the roof, but it's not a sustainable niche to "main" -- our spec is similar to Elemental in WoD, who specialised in AoE and burst ST but fell behind quite rapidly. Moreover, Frost is significantly ahead in ST/Cleave and will remain the dominant spec unless we receive some tuning. For the sake of being constructive, I'm not going to focus this thread on how viable we are. Namely, I'd like to focus on proposing minor number/mechanical changes to our current talents - for months, we've had to stick with a fairly cookie cutter talent build, not only because it sims better, but because it's mechanically more fluid to play. This thread will focus on proposed minor changes to underused talents. I'll split up the changes in terms of numbers tuning and mechanical tuning. Numbers Tuning The following talents simply need a minor numbers boost given what we see from sims and logs, so I won't go into much detail here. 15 -- Arcane Familiar's mana increase equates to a 3-charge Arcane Blast. It wouldn't hurt to increase the mana boost to 15% (i.e. a 4 charge AB). 45 -- Mirror Image will probably never compete with RoP due to the nature of our kit, but it still doesn't hurt to buff it. 90 -- Nether Tempest also needs a numbers boost. NT is a lot more complex than our best performing talent - Erosion - and kind of "deserves" to be as good or better than Erosion. 100 -- Temporal Flux requires the most attention out of all talents. Despite the nerfs to Overpowered, it falls behind most talent permutations which include Overpowered. I propose TF also scales the damage of AB per charge -- the reduced AB cast time is nice, but reducing it even further will lead to a playstyle where we are too frequently mana-starved, and one which is too heavily dependent on Mastery. I would really like to emphasize that buffing TF will indirectly buff other underused talents like Unstable Magic or Arcane Familiar as well, allowing you to kill two birds with one stone. Mechanical Tuning 15 - Words of Power sims about 20k DPS behind equivalent talent builds with Amplifcation, but because most Arcane Mages will hover between 30-50% mana during Conserve phases, it's time to allow this talent to scale inversely. Otherwise, the talent is too heavily quantised -- let it scale by 0.5% proc chance per 10% mana. 30 - Mana Shield cannot work in its current iteration. Not just because you have to burn immense amounts of mana to make it work, but because it's on the GCD and feels really sluggish if you have to spam it in succession. I hate to say this, but even if the idea behind this talent is cool, it should simply buff Prismatic Barrier, reduces its CD, and remove its mana cost. 60 - Supernova is surprisingly fine in terms of numbers, but it feels very out of place in this row. Charged Up and Resonance add a layer of complexity to Charge generation/spending, so why not this talent? I propose this talent generates one or two Charges. Bonus I know it's been said to death, but please update visuals for our spells! We literally only spam 3 spells - Blast, Missiles, and Explosion - so it shouldn't take too much work. Thanks for reading, and I'd like to hear other Arcane Mages thoughts on what could realistically be changed coming into 7.2 and beyond. Our spec has kind of fallen under the radar because no one really plays it, but we shouldn't ignore the fact we are slowly drifting into an awkward niche and surprisingly low ST numbers.2
Tank Balance - Quo vadis Blizzard?
Hi everyone, as a long time Tank i´d love to talk about the current state of Tank Balance in Legion. First Off i know there have always been Encounters where some Tanks shine and other struggle but right now the Situation is unbearable (pun intended). Looking at available NH Mythic Logs we have 37.709 Tank Parses: Druid 13.202 35,01% Paladin 6.517 17,28% Warrior 5.772 15,31% Blood DK 5.457 14,47% Monk 3.856 10,23% DH 2.905 7,70% Guardian is already dominating . Taking a more in depth look i excluded the first 3 Bosses after which - imho - the difficulty ramps up significantly. Exlcuding the first 3 Bosses there are 8.948 Parses left. Druid 3.828 42,78% Pala 1.442 16,12% Monk 1.094 12,23% Warrior 1.073 11,99% DK 1.027 11,48% DH 484 5,41% So right now >70% of the hardest available Content is done by Guardians, Palas and Monks. And i claim the number of Monks would even be higher if they werent so bad going into Legion. So only a few ppl have a Monk ready for mythic raiding. I´d love to Play a Monk but i just dont have the time to lvl and grind another artifact. Guardian Druids dominating so heavily is concerning. Why is that the case? Lets look a diffenrent Points. Baseline Active Mitigation: Guardians have the best physical and the best Magic mitigation. Ironfur and Mark of Ursol are straight Forward. And here all the problems start. With all the Magic damage in NH Guardians can literally spam Mark of Ursol. On top of Mark of Ursol they have the Golden trait 'Adaptive Fur' which adds another 10% Magic DR against one School. (I checked some Krosus and Augur logs, Uptime is HUGE, sometimes >90%) So with Thickhide, Mark of Ursol and adaptive Fur they already have 1- 0.94 * 0.70 * 0.9 = 40.78 Baseline Magic DR with nearly unlimited uptime. (Feel free to add more DR from rend and tear or pulverize) Palas SotR is a strong and solid mitigation and works against every Tpye of Damage, but uptime is not even close to Guardian. If specced into Holyshield they can Block Spells. Monks Stagger is reduced against Magic but still there is a Kind of sustained Magic Mitigation. ---------- DHs got 10% Baseline DR since 7.1.5, Demonspikes 10% DR only works against Physical Damage. As Magic DR they got 'Empower Wards' which is 6 sec 30% DR against Magic with a 20 sec Cooldown. If you would cast it on CD (which is probably a bad idea) you could have max uptime of 30% Magic DR. DKs got 16% Baseline DR via Boneshield. Our Mitigation is Healing via Deathstrike, Bloodshield only works against Physical Damage. (Sidenote: Why is Deathstrike not off the GCD like most Active Mitigation Spells?) Against Magic Damage we have AMS which absrobs 30%max HP * Versatility Damage on a 1minute CD. No Magic DR available. AMS is probably the worst Anti-Magic Ability in the game. On a fight like Krosus it lasts about 1-2 seconds until its fully consumed. The CD is way too long compared to the other tanks. Warriors have great Physical Mitigation with Block / Shield Block. Warriors suffer the most when it comes to sustained Magic damage. Spellreflect is 5sec 30% Magic DR with a 25sec CD (the effect is also canceld if a spell is reflected), max uptime 20%. They have ignore pain, but this is not enough after the nerf to help them. This is a slap in the face for every DH, DK and especially Prot Warrior Artifact Abilities Guardian: Rage of the Sleeper is by a great margin the best Artifact Ability. With the golden Trait you get 25% DR, 25% increased Damage, 25% increased Leech, are immune to loss of controll and deal some ap based thorns damage. WOW. This really feels like a strong and rewarding Artifact Ability. (1,5 min CD) Pala Eye of Tyr: Solid 25% DR for 9 secs on a 1 Minute Timer, deals also minor damage. Monk: Targets miss you for 3 secs. Cant really say if this is super strong for Monks, could Need some help here. DH: Same as Monk, cant say much of the power, DHs pls help me out. DK: Consumption. A cleaving Deathstrike which heals for Damage dealt, 45secs Cooldown. Great for mass aoe and m+. VERY BAD for any kind of raid Encounter. On a ST Fight the avg. heal from consumption is between 5-6% of max hp. ( a Minimum DS heals for 10%). This ability feels massivly unrewarding when fighting a single target. The defensive value is _non existent_. We just hit it on CD for a tiny DPS increase. This is the ability to fight the Legion? :( Warriors: From what i heared a lot of Warriors dont use Neltharions Fury at all. This is even worse than consumption. Once again, i know creating completly balanced Artifact abilities is impossible. But the gap between Rage of the Sleeper and Neltharions fury is way way way too big. Cooldowns: Wont go into all of them, but here Guardians shine again. Survival Instincts is a 60% DR with 2 Charges, and at the end DKs stand with IBF a 30% DR (a lot of DDs have better ondemand DR) The sad part is DKs have no artifact traits interacting with IBF (more DR, shorter CD whatever) because going into Legion we did not have a baseline DR at all. Long Story short. The already best tanks against sustained Magic damage get strong CDs and strong artifact abilities on top. I know there was this Blut Post in the US-Forums abount Magic Damage: ... But i really dont unterstand how this has goten so far. Dont the ppl who design a raid talk to the ppl who design the classes? Like "Hey guys NH will be a huge amount of Magic damage, better give every tank something to handle it?" !? Shifting more magice damage back to physical damage wont Change much. Guardians, Monks and Palas will continue to dominate every Tier. After reading my post again this has become more QQ than intendend. My Intention is not to nerf Guardians. But bring DHs, DKs, and Warriors more in line with the other tanks. And it would be nice not having to wait till 7.2 or ToS, because this is months away, something needs to be done. I know at least that there has been given a LOT of Feedback regarding BDK and Warrior all over the US and the EU Forums, not sure about DH but it is probably there. But in General Infos from the Devs regarding tanks are super rare. I cant imagine the trend (>40% Guardians) is something Blizzard likes. This turns more and more into "bring the class, not the Player" ANY KIND of answer from a blue/dev would be appreciated even if you think Tank Balance is fine and every Tank is 'viable' (man i hate this word). PLS.TALK.TO.TANKS.103
Bad decision after bad decision
I dont know why, but it seems blizzard is deliberately making bad decision after bad decision which leads to a bad game. The only reason WoW sub numbers drop is because Blizzard designed the game in a way that people want to quit. After WoD you would think Blizzard learnt their lesson seeing what happened when they force their new "vision" (garrison, pruning, no content, etc). From a players point of view the problems are crystal clear (at least from mine). Not all is bad but this being the Class development section want to focus on that. Here is my clear concise list. - Ability pruning, BAD There has been some good pruning but most of it has gone way overboard. Generally speaking WoW classes "always" had many abilities, for those who played the game they loved it for what it was, they did not want it to change this much that you dont recognize the game anymore. It is not fun anymore. Never heard anyone complain about too many abilities but the contrary and one of the reasons WoW stood out from the other MMo's. - Talent trees, BAD What effectively has happened is stripping away any class customization. Today transmoging is the pinnacle of character customization. This is not what the game was about when people loved it. There were real choices and builds to be made. Instead of what we have now, you could have tried to improve on the old tree that was way more popular. Many loved putting points in OS trees to customize. - Glyphs One more thing removed no one ever complained about. They were not super interesting(for the most part), but still a fun small way to make your character unique. - Stats Every class had use of every stat (for the most part). This added interesting mechanics and good players could take advantage of this. If you wanted to alter your stats you could reforge this which helped with the bad feeling of getting a sub-optimal gear peace. No one complained about this ether. - Weapons Understandably legion focuses on artifact weapons, but a hunter with a bow and a melee weapon was FUN. It is fun to be able to switch between two one handed and a two handed weapon to customize your playstyle. No one complained about this ether. - Gear Same thing happened with gear. Its too simplified. Today we have stats people avoid like the plague, and a whole game mode PvP that does not consider your stats at all. This is a 180 from where this game was, and another reason people dont like it. No more clever use of items. It feels minimal what you can do with gear these days. - Professions Even they could add customization to your class. It was a great feeling to max out a profession and EARN your ability that was useful. ------------------------------------------------------------- There are some general themes going on here; - Removing almost all character customization - Simplifying things to the bare bone - Changing, altering and the removal of iconic classes and specs I bet Blizzard knows this, but in general if people do not complain about a given game mechanic they tend to happy with it or it is at least bearable/playable. The recurring theme of legion is that it is packed with content, gated behind too much grind and RNG. RNG is a easy way to add content/replayability, but is it the only right way? Classes and specs are dull and broken, PvP is a disaster. But the worst part of Legion is that the devs seem to be as stubborn as with Warlords of Draenor, a recipe for disaster.20
Disc priest: playstyle feedback
Hello, Since patch 7.2 seems to be getting released somewhere in the next month, and the PTR properly starting to shift its attention to the next class-balance patch (7.2.5 I assume) soon, I wanted to give some feedback on the current state of disc priests, before the first changes are being tested. I have split the threat in two, with the first part focussed on disc problems and general solutions/focus points for changes. This is the core part of the threat. The second part provides more ideas/suggestions, but should be taken with a grain of salt as they might just be too large for a mid-expansion patch. For a tldr just read the conclusion of each part. Part 1: Disc priest; Lack of options Roughly a month ago, a blue responded in a healing threat about the current state and playstyle of disc priests: ... While I completely agree with their statement that the current playstyle of disc feels to limited, I feel that disc current kit is just not suited for any other playstyle. Not because the atonement mechanic is just not suited for any other playstyle, but mainly that the current implication heavily favours a high atonement number/burst healing playstyle. To elaborate this I will take a closer look at the current atonement applicators, and atonement heals/damage spells.23
return of ranged Survival Hunter?
Once upon a time, Druid feral spec and druid "tank" spec was the same talent tree. They later changed that to two diffrent trees/speccs. However, in 7.0, they completely changed the spec Suvival for hunters. Not only making it a meele spec, but also removing the old ranged Suvival hunter spec completely. I believe this was a mistake. Ranged Survival should be kept in the game, as a hunters fourth spec, like the druids have four specs. The combination of magic damage; nature, fire, shadow, arcane and some frost abilities, with physical damage was a very unique spec, and it fun to play. 50% focus on keeping up all the Black Arrow, Poison sting, and explosive/immolation trap, and 50% filling out the "lock & load" procs with Cobra shot and arcane shot in order to keep the short but strong DoT from explosive shot. This combination created a very unique spec, that was fun to play. Not to advanced, but also with some procs to force you to react, giving it some excitement. Even tho the majority of the community doesn't care about getting this specc back, it would not require alot of effort. The biggest part would be creating a artifact-weapon for the specc, maybe re-calibrate the numbers for the spec, but otherwise just pretty much putting it as it was in WoD.. but perhaps without the insane ability to CC in pvp. Note aswell that Ranged Survival is a spec which has been in the game since launch, and not undergone TOO many changes. Just removing the spec completey* is to remove its legacy completely. Removing 13 years of history seems like a bad idea, when you just could have kept it in the game. TL;DR: Bring back Ranged Survival Hunter spec, next to meele survival hunter. The old Survival hunter spec was a unique combination of fire/shadow/arcane/nature/frost damage and effects, and the way the spec worked made it alot of fun to play. * Some of the abilities are still left in the game, such as explosive trap, black arrow and explosive shot, but they are either heavily altered, or completely diffrent.6
Feral in-depth feedback
DISCLAIMER: Although it might sound whiney (because apparently now complaining for a product you pay, giving feedback and allowing devs to improve it = crying) this post is a feedback. It's written on the sole purpose of trying and improve the state of ferals right now. Obviously I'm talking as a feral main since a very long time, and I'll try my best to describe what imho we should improve. Most players says feral it's a hard class to play, but let's face the truth: it's not. There are many classes with 2 buttons rotation, but this does not make feral a hard class, it makes it a "normal" class imho. You take a bit of time to understand it and start mastering it (as every other class should work). But then what is this post about? Well it's about ferals being more complex than other classes but doing A LOT less in terms of damages than them. Let's take another energy-CP-dot based spec: the assassination rogue. Assassination rogues not only can generate a huge amount of combo point faster than us, but they also have only one bleed to maintain, and that bleed lasts a lot. Their abilities cost a lot of energy, just like ours, but their energy regenerates so much faster than ours, even more if we're considering the standard Assassination meta playing with the Vigor talent and the Venom Rush. This results in their damage being strong, as they can easily have lots of energy at their disposal. Unfortunately, our class is not like that. Bleeds have a short duration (and yeah, if you don't run Jagged Wounds, your dps will be destroyed even by a tank's one), they need to be snapshotted, they cost a lot of energy, we also have a buff that we need to maintain, and the pandemic (which, considering the rate they should be refreshed, matters) forces you to play a very very punishing rotation. "Punishing" is the correct word, because whenever you have to move for a boss mechanic, or to just dps another add, or if you just mess a bit the rotation (and yeah, it can happen, we're not computers) you end up being without Savage Roar, with Rip and Rake expiring, without Bloodtalons, low Energy and zero Combo Points. And as I said, the rotation is so punishing that happens many, many times. I think I can say I kind of master the class right now, after all the years I've spent on it, but still it happens to me as well that I just want to use a Shred or a Ferocious Bite thinking that I can refresh the 15sec Rip in time, and it doesn't happen. The Shred should be one of our main sources of CPs but it costs so much energy that you just always have to pool, rarely casting it. The talents and the gear blizzard is giving us don't help: talent choice is just static. You can't change from the Savage Roar-Jagged Wounds-Bloodtalons if you want to deal some damages. Any change in the talent choice, which would improve so much our rotation, making it more enjoyable, would result in a ridiculous damage. I've read a lot of posts about classes having no talent choices overall; well, here's another one. "Now feral has AoE talents and viable quality of life improving ones" yeah but if I pick the Brutal Slash for the AoE or the Sabertooth just to enjoy pressing the Ferocious Bite, my damage goes down again. Speaking of which, Ferocious Bite is currently a useless spell. OK, when the enemy has 25% hp you can use it, but come on, it's just not worth casting, ever. Even if you have both SR and Rip up with so much time remaining, still not worth. It's gonna eat half of your energy and then you're gonna be starving for resources again. Also Clearcasting got nerfed! "But now using it on thrash you have more energy" . NO. Just no. Using it on a Savage Roar or on a Rake when we really needed it was so much better. Now we can use it on shred. Wow. Oh and quick mention to the tier set. The Shred tier set. Really. Ok, it increases your damage, but let's be honest, it sucks. Legendaries on Feral are about quality of life, which again makes you really desire some (like the Ring, which is even going to be hugely buffed on 7.2, making it even worse for those who don't have it) but since you can't really predict them... it's all useless. They said "we're gonna buff single target" ok, fine, but where are those buff? Why your attitude of "we fix the problem" has become "we'll fix this problem after 3 patches"? So yeah, now T20 is going to be strong for ferals but still, I spent the whole expansion struggling with this class. And still it's gear dependant, meaning that when the gear cap changes, we won't be as strong again. So, dear Blizzard, I'm not unsubbing because I think this expansion is very good, but some things are really missing. Since your forums are full of desperate people begging for the RNG, the legendary problems, the class being too simple or too bad, just READ IT. Read it and do your job. Thanks a lot, hope you liked the post. No flamerino please.3
Holy Priest - Prayer of Healing
I play priest since vanilla, and I'm honestly having a hard time adjusting to the new prayer of healing. I played in guilds ranging from rank 600-700 to rank 16-22. Is it just me or is the system too, let's say "weird"? Why is the prayer of healing only Healing the person and the 4 closest targets? Doesn't that constitute a huge problem when people stack or are constantly moving (e.g.: Elisande Mythic or even Star Augur Mythic)? From what I understand, blizzard wanted to move away from smart heals, but why not leave it group wide as in the past? Than at least we could prepare for incoming damage while PoH-ing each group once, as opposed to now when you use it 4 times and if people move while you are casting it, you might end up healing almost same people each time. This is my personal opinion, and of course that's why I ask you, the community, for your opinion, because maybe I am wrong. Thanks :).9
Feral Druid in Legion!!!
Well as Blizzard said: "Feral playstyle feels good". And it is actually! That's why we are here to make the spec better! Damage output sucks though, and is still not fixed. Feral complex rotation is not at all rewarding dpswise (damage output). Instead it is punishing if you miss a single OoC proc, or forget to buff your bleeds with bloodtalons! Our spec not only needs better legendaries! The problem is beyond items and gear! For the thing we WERE famous for, in Legion we are just mediocre! Ferals should and must do outstanding single target damage. We need better base damage on our spells, and better energy regeneration! A few things Blizzard should take under consideration: - Ashamane Frenzy: really lengthy cd. It would be better if we could use it more often! - Feels like bleed damage is so low! - our mastery % compared to Assassination Rogue is far left behind! - Ferocious Bite? Its a joke! Boss under 25% and FB just 50% of the damage compared to other classes finishers. - Help Ferals Cleave! A good idea is Ashamane Frenzy hit +2 targets - Savage Roar should again be into our basic spells and replace it with a another talent. It is really expensive to use and people struggle with energy starvation! - Energy Starvation should be managed! - Improve base damage of spells! Their base damage is totally unacceptable! To sum up, people play feral because they enjoy a kinda more challenging rotation, but this should be the reason to reward it as damage output! I really hate when i play with my rogue and demon hunter totally chilled burstin 1.4m of damage while with my feral struggle to hit my keys in the correct order not to make any mistake, struggling to be on time, just to find out that more easier rotations just hit harder, sustain better etc. It is really sad that our only advantage which is sustained single target that was getting better in long fights, is not advantage anymore. We are benched because other leather classes are FAR better. And they are. We need changes as feral community, and changes towards better. After all there are so few ferals left. Dont make the rest of us that still enjoying raking and ripping in our agile cat form, respec, reroll or quit! Dont waste an excellent spec, and make people play Rogues or Demon Hunters which are both easier, more beneficiary and hit harder! Feral Dev must see our problems and approach Feral community! Ferals must shine in raids not benched! The sad thing is that Ferals are in worst position than in Warlords! May Elune bless us all! Respectfully, -Mythoran p.s.: i link the us forum for feral issues: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753357722 Please feel free to describe and propose! Just be serious about it!97
Affliction T20 feedback
Some thoughts on the current T20 set-bonus for Affliction Warlocks: Currently both set-bonuses are tied to Drain Soul, which requires the caster to stand still for the duration of the channel (6 seconds w/o haste). I don't think this is a good idea from a gameplay perspective, since it's not very engaging. It's also pretty detrimental for WiA multitarget builds, where Drain Soul plays a very small part in the rotation, if used at all, especially with increasing numbers of targets. Even specced into Malific Grasp, the T20 4 piece will require us to stand still for the whole DS duration, which will suck on encounters that involve movement (nearly all encounters). It also goes against the way DS is used atm (re-channeling after a few ticks, to make sure to buff all UA ticks). A solution would be to tie the T20 bonus to UA casts, which all Affliction talent setups use, since it's the core spell. For example, give us a stacking buff per UA cast, that after X casts increases haste by Y amount and then resets to zero. This would alleviate the turreting, of the current T20 bonus. It would also give us something to play around, with the possibility of optimization and a higher skill ceiling, while at the same time being useful for all builds and not reduce the first row of talents to MG as only option.0
Hello. As a bit of a background - I’m not a mythic raider atm (I did not even clear heroic NH yet, mostly because I cba finding a guild so I’m raiding with my irl friends on another server) but I’m the current de-facto simulationcraft hunter module maintainer (if that’s worth anything). This is not going to be exhaustive, as that would be a lot of words, just some thoughts I had while playing / casually reading discord / testing stuff on the ptr / implementing things in simc. Marksmanship legendary gloves There is currently a bug where the buff fades as soon as you gain it (seen as a pair of SPELL_AURA_APPLIED & SPELL_AURA_REMOVED happening at the same time). There is no reliable way to trigger the bug (or make it go away) that I know of, it looks completely random, so there is no way to confirm/deny if it’s fixed on ptr or not. Steel Trap Currently the trap “triggers” twice, effectively pandemicing and extending its duration to 39 seconds. (It’s immobilization effect also triggers twice) Spitting Cobra Uh, this thing is *very* special. First, it does not look like it got the usual guardian treatment regarding pet AI as it has a lag of ~350 ms between each Cobra Spit cast (which is somewhat random actually, is affected by haste but non-linearly, it looks exactly like the DK’s Garg of old). Second, it (or, more specifically, Cobra Spit) double dips off *everything*. It effectively uses both the player & its own multipliers (so 5% vers increases it’s damage by 10.25%, 10% haste is actually 21% haste and the full 20 paragon traits increase it’s damage by ~31.1%). Third, it updates its stats (from players dynamic buffs) with a slight lag, with double dipping being clearly visible there (e.g. you get a +10% damage buff, the next Cobra Spit will do 10% more damage while the ones after will do 21% more damage etc.; which holds true for aura fades, only in reverse). Marksmanship Freezing Trap Aggros before triggering for some reason (does not happen while in Beast Mastery or Survival). Marked Shot This is not really a bug, but more of an inconsistent/inconvenient thing stemming from its server side implementation. The arrows don’t all fly off at the same time, there is a variable delay between each one of them of around ~90ms with Vulnerable being applied in the same “staggered” manner. This is kinda unimportant on single target, but there are 2 implications/interactions of it on aoe that are pretty awkward: Zevrim’s Hunger (Legendary ring); with high haste and (or) a lot of mobs, it becomes basically impossible to make good use of the procs as the gcd can come off cooldown *before* all of the marked shot arrows fly away and Marked Shot button stops glowing. (not like we can reliably track the ring procs in any case, I tried to come up with a weakaura for it and quickly understood that it would take much more code than I have motivation to write). Trick Shot; because Vulnerable durations are staggered you can end up in a situation where you lose some of the aoe value of it if you Aimed Shot right at the end of Vulnerable as all of the targets have different Vulnerable durations and your current target may be the only one with Vulnerable left.2
[Fire] Hello Baws ? Can we get some help pls?
Why are you waiting 7.2 to buff mages, and more precisely fire mages ?? Back to early Legion, during EN, you buffed Retardin as hell because the spec was underpowered and underperforming. The spec was dependant of the legiondaries just like fire mages atm. But you buffed them, and since that day, they are in a pretty good spot. Why can't you do the same with fire mages ? The whole community is giving you feedback EVERY SINGLE DAY, about how crap the spec is. Even the stoopid haters agree with us. FIRE MAGE IS NOT GOOD ( only in low m+ LUL ) This spec RELY TOO MUCH ON GETTING THE 3 BiS LEGENDARIES ( BlessedBracers, Belt and DB helm ). And EVEN with the 3 BiS, we CANT COMPETE with most of the other specs in the game. THE SPEC IS 100% RNG BASED EVEN WITH the 3 BiS ( bracers not procing / crit even once in a fight, yes it can happen ). No one wants to rely on a ROLL. RNG IS NOT FUN. We are even more screwed by our super-bad T19 ( the worst after feral and arcane ). Its like you wanted to make us leave the game during NH ( you did a great job on that pal ). You EVEN DELETED iceflow ?! Why the hell would you do that on one of the worst spec of the game ? NH is so good for melee spec, that ranged needs to be not competitive at all ( except ShadOPriest ) You are such HYPOCRITE. Remember when you nerfed Fire burst because you dont wanted us to rely too much on burst. And you created the EXACT SAME THING with the DH at NH. They can burst @3M DPS at the open of the fight. We are only good at AoE ( far from being the best tho ). Guess what, there more ST boss than AoE at NH MYTHIC ( so HC heroes dont quote me on that part ). Fire is only good for padding and cheesing on Skorp ( wow very hard boss ), Tich, and Aluriel ( and Arcane is better ). Its been 3 months since you DESTROYED the spec, fix it by telling us now if you want us to not play fire at all, I would rather unsub right now than wasting more of my time waiting for some NEEDED buffs.20
Unholy in 7.2
So far i havent seen a single fix to the core Unholy issues and with the increasing amount of stats we gate its getting even worse. Too much resources - I cant even imagine how much resources we are going to have with BIS Tomb of Sargeras gear, even now im often sitting at 3-4 runes and 50-60 Runic power and i cannot spend it fast enough. Something have to be made here, reducing the global GCD to 1 second from an example. Mobility issues - DKs are the slowest class in the game right now and yet not the strongest hitting one (especially unholy). Are you guys planning to do something about this? We really need some kind of passive movement increasing buff because 70-100% move speed for 3 seconds with 45sec cd is a joke. Also why Wrath Walk is on GCD? Lets compare DKs to warriors and paladins - warriors have charge and Heroic Leap, paladins have Divine Steed which can be used 2 times with a talent, also full immunity spell and a huge dmg absorb. Can you compare this to DK mobility spells? Quick target swapping - it takes around 3 seconds to build up wounds on the new target, then use Death and Decay and spam SS/CS to hit everything around the target. Most of the time adds are already dead by the time when i can do proper damage. Festering wound sounds good on paper but in the end its the same old combo points system used on rogues (and changed for good now). I dont get why you guys used the same mechanic on UH DKs while every single rogue hated it. Its like doing the same mistake 2 times. Bugs Dark Arbiter is still bugged, she is often standing still and doing nothing for 2-3 seconds. Also when her target is moved away, she often stops attacking. New weapon traits Festering Talons - why more RNG? The only thing Unholy need is more RNG. Please change this one to something else, like spell hits reducing the CD of Garg/DA? Overall i feel extremely disappointing from Unholy this expansion - lack of damage, mobility issues, rotation issues and insane amount of RNG. I really miss the old Unholy...9
Is fistweaving a thing?
Hello everyone! There has a been discussion with a number of blueposts in response to questions about holy paladins’ design as a "melee healer" and its capabilities of delivering healing through damage. This is the thread: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753646335 I thought that It might be a time to try and ask some questions about the same issue with monks. As monks were the first "melee healers" ever introduced in WoW I think that discussion is totally worth its time and place. Notice - I'll be speaking about PvE. What is the interaction between our healing and damage that we have? Or more general - what are the perks of being a melee healer that we have? Let's look at it. Well, you see, currently we have 2 abilities that do damage and healing together or have their damage and healing connected in some way - it's Chi-burst and Zen-pulse. We will also have Chi-wave in upcoming 7.2. But that's all. Chi-burst is a very valuable tool for raid healing as it's a free of mana cost spell that heals all targets hit. Obviously nice to have in raid. Though I've never considered its damaging factor. Zen-pulse is pretty specific. It's good to heal someone surrounded by mobs - that's all. Its value is also being our only healing spell that can deliver more or less significant instant healing. There are though other perks that can be considered as those that point out our "melee nature". We have two golden traits - Celestial breath and The Mists of Sheilun that provide some healing in 15yd radius in cone of front of a monk or around him. So they imply "be close to your allies in order get the benefit". We also have a few talents that provide some sort of a benefit to our healing (at least in theory) and also are melee in nature. It's Spirit of the Crane, Rising Thunder and Refreshing Jade Wind. Now I want to ask my fellow monks - did you try this talents? How did it felt to use them? Are they beneficial? I'm pretty fine with Rising Thunder, as having additional access to thunderfocus tea is always nice and just using one kick to reset may seem a bit fair, but I can say I clearly do not understand Spirit of the Crane. This thing gives an opportunity to go melee, spend 4 gcds, do 0 healing, quite bad damage, and regenerate ~2% of your mana (btw - Rising Sun Kick has a mana cost of exactly 2%). Which, if you're stacking haste like me (though most monks don't) will take you 4-5 seconds (4 gcd) during which you will also regenerate twice as much mana passively. To me that seems useless to be fair. Because, you see, if I really have the time to go melee (you can argue that already have to be in melee, but sorry i'm not glued to a mob or boss and I still have to stand still and cant a heal once in a while, and there are mechanics and so on) and spend 4 gcd's not healing at all, then maybe I don't really need extra mana? Maybe the things go pretty fine? Maybe nobody takes excessive damage? Also I can choose Mist Wrap talent on the same row - and move while channeling Soothing Mist - actually providing free-of-manacost healing? By the way I have legendary that actually makes me benefit more from doing so. And there is also another one, potentially, which I don't have yet. But there are none legendaries that work with Tiger Palm or Blackout kick by the way.3
Affliction Warlock PVP talents.
Hello there! I'm a 3000+ rated warlock who mostly plays pvp as affliction spec, so I'm mainly concerned about pvp. I'm creating this topic because, the new pvp talents that came with 7.1.5 were supposed to be equally good choices versus Endless Affliction and Amplify Affliction. However they still werent as good as EA and AA in their row. After their introduction they got nerfed by a lot, so basically they are as useless now as their predecessors. Tier 5: Soulshatter: Sounds good to have a personal bloodlust with a minute cooldown, however this totally kills all your dmg (it removes all of your dots), because the main dmg in pvp is 20 stack agony, which already takes like 25 seconds to stack up that high. Death's Embrace: Was good with the 100% dmg done, but ppl abused it with rot and decay 5 uas and it basically oneshotted ppl from 30%. However RaD is nerfed, so I don't get why this talent isn't reverted. Endless Affliction: Even tho casting UA feels unrewarding at all (even multipled ones), this is still the best overall spec. Tier 6: Curse of Shadows: The idea is interesting to have another curse to enhance our dot dmg, however our single target dmg is so low this isn't even a viable option. We'd need longer UA durations for this talent, and also even dps specs are just dispelling it. Rot and Decay: This mainly promotes a single target gameplay for affliction warlock in pvp, which is just simply unviable in the current meta/patch. Affliction ST dmg is really weak in pvp and it's just really easy to lock down the warlock. Amplify Affliction: This is just a must have for affliction warlocks. Right now I can't even imagine a situation when anyone would'nt pick this talent. This boosts our dmg at least by 30% or even more. The fast gcds are just must have to keep up all our REALLY SHORT duration dots. I'm not saying the new talents are totally useless, they are a step into the right direction, however they are still worse then EA and AA. I'm mainly concerned about going into 7.2 or 7.2.5 without getting any meaningful changes. I don't want Blizzard to make affliction really op, however I want some quality of life changes for pvp, because the spec right now just feels dull and plain boring. It just feels bad to cast UAs and you can barely feel the difference in the dmg. However without going into theorycrafting about the new PvP talents, I'd like to have: -UA dmg buffed slightly -Longer dot duration -Demon Skin 50% nerf reverted for affliction / soul link reintroduced to affli / 1 minute wall for affli too (we are one of the squishiest cloth casters, when we are supposed to be one of the tankiest). ((Hello firemages.)) Thanks for reading! Any constructive criticism is welcome. :)21
Enhancement Shaman T20 Feedback
Dear Shaman Dev Team! Well i gathered some thoughts about the upcoming T20 Enhancement Shaman Set Bonus and try to share some feedback with you guys. First of all i really like that in the upcoming patch will be more focus on the Crash Lightning Spell and thus we will see a significant buff to our aoe damage - which wasnt that bad, but yeah could be better - so really appreciated. Also i think CL is one of the more iconic Enhancement Spells which fits the class fantasy pretty well. So thats for the positive part - now for the things that im worried about how they will work out. If you were following the Enhancement Community at the beginning of 7.1.5 you wouldve noticed that before getting our hands to the godly T19 4p bonus, we were forced to run a different Talent Set to stay "in the game" and be competetive. Which was ok, but felt awkward having a range spell (Lightning Bolt) as our best dmg source as a melee class. While also having nerfed one of our best Trinkets (spontanous appendages) we pretty much had no chance to get into the patch using our go-to talent set, so we needed to adept to a slightly different playstyle. Many of us didnt like that approach since it made our rotation feel less smooth and more clunky and boring, as most of the time we were just casting rock biter to stay high on maelstrom. Stormbringer proccs were less meaningful and the fun part of the specc was even smaller. We are an rng heavy specc - without proccs we dont do dmg - some may hate that part, others (like myself) love it. That feeling when u get on a stormbringer chain is just so satisfying and makes playing the enhancement shaman an enjoyment. The T19 set is perfectly supporting that part of the class design and brought the specc to a whole new level- its easy one of the best set bonuses of that tier among classes (~10% increase)- thats why everyone loves it so much. With all that said and with my eyes on the upcoming T20 set, im a little worried HOW we will be able to keep that style alive. In 7.0 the enhancement rotation had Crash Lightning as a part of the single target rotation - not only to trigger the Crashing Storm talent but furthermore to "fish" for the mighty Stormbringer proccs. Since we may or may not loose the benefits of the T19 4p bonus, we will get back to that rotation somehow, and therefore CL will be cast a lot, even in ST situations. now that with T20 4p you want to actually hold on to CL longer to stack up that buff, you will be more likely to not procc SB alot, which will result in bad performance. Same applies to AoE situations where casting CL is even more beneficial, as the procc chance of SB is increased with every enemy. Also Lava Lash will fall back in priority - AGAIN. What im trying to say is - we wont see that buff stacking up to 10 very often, if ever at all. My suggestion would be - raise the dmg bonus and lower the stacks (maybe 60%, 5 stacks). As the set is pretty good for any cleave fights, its on the other hand rather low end for pure patchwerk style encounters. many of us are even going to hold onto that T19 4p as long as possible and maybe also try to combine those two tier sets - some say we will be forced to do so - because the bonus is just too good. This will result in people being forced to farm "old" content and hope for high titan forged gear. Is that something that you intended? A basic higher procc chance for SB on Single Target fights will be needed to compensate this. At the same time with more tier set pieces to combine, the options for different legendaries are also getting smaller - the chest and the head legendary will be less useful and we may stick to only the neck the trinket and the ring. (btw please fix the bracers - they are of no use!) Another thing that comes to my mind - T20 4p set is very crit hungry - feels like we will drop haste/mastery for alot of crit which will also result in less proccs and less maelstrom to spend - wonder how this will work. Even something like a crit cap comes to my mind. All in all - i know nothing is final and also we didnt get a chance to test things yet - but on the other hand, when just thinking about it, im a little sceptical about how im going to enjoy whats good about my class in the upcoming patch. so i hope you read this and take the feedback into account before finalising things. Best regards and have a good day :-)9