Story

09 Nov 2018 Gosh, this made me love the void elves more When I read this in-game, it made me just love the void elves even more, especially the bolded parts he says. Magister Umbric ... Me: So you sought the power of shadow? Umbric:... Me:The Void nearly claimed you Umbric:... Me: Now you fight for the Alliance Umbric:... Love it !! Go go Magister Umbric. It would be so cool, if blizzard forged a strong relationship between the void elves and the night elves - especially the priest, demon hunters and mage groups within the night elves. The priests can relate via the shadow/void thing, the demon hunters via the pursuit to master every magic at their disposal and the constant struggle against the whispers while perservering through it, the arcnae wielders who wield and understand great power can be used for good. It works with thsoe parts of the night elves because like the Farondis/Shen'dralar and current arcane night elves who survived the sundering and have joined us in the fighting, everyone of them have learnt the folly of hubris. This is what makes them ideologically fit. We have yet to explore the shadowy side of the night elves too, afterall, they're described as "shadowy" beings, and WotA does mention a section of the priesthood using shadow/void magic (not evil) , and it appears there is a link to the dark side of the moon. --EDIT ADD -09/11/18-- Gosh, I'm loving this guy even more, just saw this convo between Shandris and Umbric: Hinting more at night elf/void elf relationship? especially after blizzard is revealing the void shadow powers the night elves have always had in the night warrior scene. This has some promise. ... I really like that the void elves are not like when the night elves went all reckless with arcane magic, or when the void elves went all reckless with fel magic nor the same as the demon hunters whose experience with fel was one of sacrifice. Whiles the night elves do get redeemed, especially the arcane wielding shen'dralar and nightborne from addiction and recklessness, as do the blood elves, its nice to see that this experience with dark power is different, and the dark power is not quite what we thought it was. I mean, when you think about it, what's the difference between death, fel and void? there has to be differences, I use to think void was just another "evil" power, but with night elves using it in the order of Elune from way back and not being evil, and Tyrande been shown wielding that aspect quite well, not to mention the netherlight temple shadow priests not being evil, it would appear wielding void, even deeply doesn't necessarily corrupt, i like that. For all those who are wishing the void elves to go evil and insane and be the alliance's "grey" scapegoat - i'm so so glad blizz isn't taking them down this line.. i'm so freaking tired of everything cool geting corrupt and evil and having to take it down, it's nice to see another group outside demon hunters actually succeed in mastering this !@#$. Love that highborne and nightborne elves have mastered the arcane free from addiction Love that demon hunters can wield fel holding onto their souls and do so for good not evil. Love now that the void elves are able to do the same with void, and we are seeing an aspect of elves and the void that doesn't necessarily dominate and control its user.Sariel75 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 Night Warrior scenario update 2.0 Night Elves rejoice ! 1-Most night elven souls now refuse to be raised, and rise as wisps to fight back against the Horde ! 2-Brynja can't raise all the Night Elves, the numbers of Night Elves that you can raise has been reduced greatly making it a rare occurrence. 3- Nathanos no longer expects us to be surprised at the resurrection of elves by the Val'kyr ( horde PC) which indicates a correction in the narrative. 4-Tyrande will now cast powerful spells named Dark of the Moon ( exploding moon that deals massive AOE VOID damage) and will also cast full eclipse, turning everything dark/foggy.Many new spells relating to Elune added, all look dark/silver/void like. 5-Tyrande's damage has been greatly increased to the point that horde players will quickly die if they engage her, she 1 shots you, and Nathanos will lose his hp quickly. 6-Tyrande now grants Alliance players Fury of the Night Warrior Buff and other empowerment/Aura, which increases your damage/max health/regen greatly just by being close to her. Overall great job by Blizzard once again, they made it clear that only 1-5% of the Night Elves can be raised( additional explanation might be added), and the Night Warrior is now seen as a huge threat, that even Horde PC need to be careful around.Mälfurion106 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 Sargeras his sword So after a few days doing intensive research and asking my self the question why Sargeras would stick his sword in to Silithus... So this is where the speculation adventure begins, so i came up with a few possible reasons. Since Azeroth is a round formation logical wise it should not matter where to stab went to since eventually it would al reach the same destination. But after doing some exploration myself and realizing that Un'goro crater is a titan forging ground where they experimenten with the creation of life and it would make sense to corrupt the place where life it self first began, destroying it would not make sense as the rest of the planet would not influenced by a destruction of one of the many titan forging grounds, or there needs to be more then that then we know so far.... However it merely could have been a mis stab but i somewhat doubt his lazy eye xD His sword has been a image of his cruel ways to end worlds, yet this a huge symbol of his characters being, and i think it was intended on Silithus because of a connection with Un'Goro as trying to destroy a old god was all that Sargeras despised and not giving them the satisfaction that Azeroth would be corrupted by the void. However could this mean that what Sargeras his sword was seeping down into Azeroth be a means to empower us against the battle of N'zoth, since we know now that Magni is a pawn in the old god there game, and rather adds up if you think about it. Magni being the first one to speak to in the sword and telling how much damage it is doing to Azeroth would hence to be the exact opposite of what it is doing. What do you guys think?Ravensheart6 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 How do you feel about tweaking WC3 story? Apparently thats the aim Christie Golden and Justin Groot have in mind at the moment. Will it be for the better or the worse?Zarao22 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 Problems of good authors Hello folks. So this is something, I was thinking about posting for a while now. Reading the latest news about Reforged made me decide that it was an appropriate time to do so and think this is the most appropriate place to put it. First of all let me please clarify that I don't want discuss any of the persons I am going to mention in my posts. I don't know any of them personally, so every judgement about them could only be based on baseless assumptions. I instead want to give a little insight about my feeling about their works. Also for the sake of simplicity I will only look at their most recent piece of writing each. To jump right into it: I feel like the quality of many characters portrayed in Mrs. Golden's work is rather poor. And by this I chiefly mean, that they often come across very mono-dimensional. Let us look at "Before the Storm". All the main characters in this novel easily described in one or two adjectives: Anduin is noble and just, Sylvanas is psychopathic and Greymane is vengeful. Now I don't consider it bad for characters to have a strong over-arcing character-trait, but Mrs. Golden takes this "over-arcs" to extremes where they just feel comical. I'm thinking of instances, for example, where Highking Anduin carries out menial tasks himself because it would not be noble to leave them to the servant who is employed to do them. Even worse: It makes characters predictable and boring, because literally everything they do is dictated by their singular character trait. Every time Sylvanas speaks or thinks in Before the Storm she acts like a vile psychopath, even when talking to maybe the last person she still harbors feelings towards: Nathanos Blightcaller. There is not a single line of dialogue or monologue in Before the Storm where Sylvanas is given a break of acting in-you-face-psychopathic. Now let us compare this to another depiction of her in a recently released WoW-story: A Good War. In A Good War - just a short-story bear in mind - Sylvanas is also depicted as a vile and careless ruler ( as should be ), but not her every action is dictated by that trait. She acts differently towards different characters, she is even allowed to express doubt, actually self-criticism; when the acknowledges it was her mistake to leave alone Saurfang with Malfurion. In short: Although she is just a side character in this short-story the reader gets to see more facets of her than in an entire novel where she is one of the main characters. If was to be cynical I could summarize by first point as such: If Christie Golden did write "A Good War", she would have made sure that Saurfang says "Honour" at least once in every sentence. So why is the title of this rather lengthy post not "Christie Golden is a bad writer"? Did I just want to be polite? No; because she has also demonstrated, that she can do better. Let us look at Before the Storm again. There is this little side-story in there about a little gnome and her goblin boyfriend. It is rather disconnected from the main story, but you know what: It is actually good. Not the second coming, but it's a solid, nice little, heart-warming story about to little tinkers with actual character development and more than just one trait to them. Now the difference is that Grizzek and Saphronetta - as these little buggers are called - are Christie's own characters. She had could do with them and their personalities whatever she wanted to. And that brings me to my second point: I feel like the main problem with Christie Golden's writing is, that she has trouble dealing with concepts, she didn't come up with herself. Another place where this shows, is that her stories are often very "gamey". For example: as most people are aware, the Azeroth we see ingame is a heavily downscaled version of what Azeroth is supposed to look like in the lore. Well most people; but not Christie Golden. In Before the Storm a person standing on Thoradin's Wall can read the facial expressions of a person standing on the walls of Stromgarde. In A Good War Saurfangs needs and entire day to traverse the Felwood. In Before the Storm Sylvanas can fire an arrow from the Wall half-way across the distance to the keep. In A Good War Saurfang has trouble to shoot across the Falfarren River with his catapults. (On a little side-note: Is it just me or was this a sly little statement by Brooks on what he thinks about the way Teldrassil got burnt down.) The most jarring example of this to me though was the way Calia Menethil died in Before the Storm: Because her Power Word: Shield was on cooldown. I am not even exaggerating: Anduin rides towards her and sees her popping her shield thinking to himself: "This spell while expire before it is ready to be cast again." At this point I'm glad there was no passage in the novel where Anduin can't pick up Shalamayne because he is a priest. So what am I saying with all of this? I am not saying: "Blizz gotta fire Christie" nor "Omfg she so stupid". First and foremost I just wanted to express how I feel some of the latest story bits - talking to the void if you want to. If there is something I want to say with my post, it is this: Dear authors. Working with an established franchise is a bit like working with a larger than life story. Many people have contributed to it, not all of which are still around. Please be respectful with what you work with and take the time to consider, appreciate and understand. Even - and especially - if you yourself have been contributing to that world for a long, long time.Ronaeriel3 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 How do you count the Blood War's score? Everyone seems to have their own subjective opinion of how well the war is going for each faction and each race, despite what characters say in the aftermath of the Siege in 8.1. So how do you personally count the score of this war? What counts as a point and what doesn't? Does the destruction of the enemy's capital on a faction's primary continent score any points? Or does it only raise the score if it's achieved in a certain fashion? What about the assault of a settlement? How much damage needs to be inflicted before points are scored? Are those points still scored if the hostile force is pushed away before completing their assault? Does the killing of any named character on the enemy's side score any points? How many nameless characters need to be killed before it counts as a point scored? Are more points scored if those characters are civilians, or less? Does the reanimation of characters score points, even though the act of reanimation isn't one that directly hinders the opposing faction? What about the possession of plot devices like Gallywix's Pride, Jaina's boat and the Vindicaar? Does holding any of those score any points? Are there any other specific actions taken that you feel haven't been mentioned that have allowed a faction to score more points? It's something I'm curious about. Try to lay bare your personal analysis of the story so far and how you're able to tell which side is winning, or which side is favoured over another by Blizzard.Taxania124 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 Zandalins, Rastakhan's Rumble,... Man, i was REALLY hyped by the troll lore at Blizzcon. I may have missed it, but did they announce what class mount would Zandalins have?Zarao24 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 a good day to be a blood elf. https://www.wowhead.com/news=287980/patch-8-1-ptr-build-28151-blood-elf-heritage-armor This screams Sin'dorei!Sariku74 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 Suggestion for levelling lore/story continuity? Good afternoon fellow geeks/nerds/trolls/murlocs. Its a rare occurrence that I post on the forums. Now, however, I think its time having found something in the game that I feel could really be improved upon and maybe leave those that are sat in my position from grinding their teeth much further. So, to start with - I have to say straight up that this post is entirely presented from a lore nerds perspective. I truly love the lore, and when there’s tiny little loop holes that I've noticed - it niggles at me. I think this particular one has been niggling for quite some time and perhaps what I post here could potentially be a solution in the right direction of fixing it. If a blue wants to throw it towards the quest and lore development team - please do feel free! The small point that has been playing on my mind is the holes that have developed in the levelling questing and lore experience,, brought on by the forward development of the game and its expansions. With the release of cataclysm - holes seem to have developed in terms of story continuity when levelling. If I recall rightly - the Blizzard team have said before that each expansion is set a 'year' after the last one. The example used was Deathwings emergence was a year after the death of Arthas in WotLK. So we now go to a level 1 just starting in the world. That hero progresses through the game 1-60 and depending on the route taken, is presented with quests and lore that are like "Before Arthas's demise" and "Deathwing tore the world apart". In short - the quest lore from 1-60 is saying OH HEY - Arthas is dead. Deathwing is the new bad guy. Fast forward to the 70-80 experience - "Arthas we must kill Arthas. Arthas is DOING this this this and this". Mmkay so, the new quests are saying Arthas was dead - Now we're going to Northerend, the expansion that featured Arthas as the main antagonist, and he's alive! Yay! The reasoning for this - is of course obvious - the new questing experience 1-60, was introduced for Cataclysm, the expansion AFTER WotLK... but the loop holes are still there - it still to me feels weird that we're being told "hey this guys dead"/ "hey we're going to stop him and his terrible ways". With Mists around the corner - We simply have more of this to come; 80-85 will consist of "down with deathwing" - "deathwings doing this and that". Hopefully people can see the slight confusing from a lore point - We're going from present to past to present. THE SOLUTION So, I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now in terms of how this can be fixed to help develop the continuity and give players an actual reason for why this 'hole' occurs in the timelines. Answer? - The Bronze Dragonflight Now before I have other lore nerds jumping on me, hear me out. With Deathwings demise and the ending cinematic showing that the dragonflights have lost the vast majority of their power, but not all. It was indicted that - the Dragon Soul returned back to its own time line because Nozdormu had lost his power to intervene and say - bring things to the present. It doesn’t however say that they've lost ALL their power. Ysera is still able to visit the dream, Just like Nozdormu is able to say - Travel the time ways - the only difference being he can't directly affect anything as it has been before or see the futures. So where do the Bronze Dragonflight come into this? Well before we've had quests more often than not provided by our cute little friend Chromie. She's been directly involved in 'showing' us events that have transpired - so why not include her here as a 'fix' to these holes. 1-60 I do not feel requires such intervention However when we get to say - 60-70, 70-80 and 80-85 - This is where she could become useful perhaps? "Greetings <class>, Over the past few years there have been several major events that have threatened the very existence of Azeroth as we know it. The opening of the Dark Portal, The downfall of Arthas and the Rise of the Destroyer. Although these events are in the past, I feel that they would be beneficial for your development to witness such atrocities, in order to understand the events of the present Although we cannot directly interfere and change these events, I can provide a direct link to this period so that you can experience them for yourself through the eyes of another prominent <race> <class> of that period, so you too can witness and learn from these events" Obviously not exactly like that - it would have to be developed further, but it removes the holes - Hey - These events have happened, but its beneficial for you to witness them for yourself - so I'm linking you to that time line - You can't change anything - it will all happen exactly how it did. Done. So please, geeks, nerds, trolls and blues - Do let me know your views. Changes? Opinions? Am I just over thinking things?Griimjaw7 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 What is honour in the World of Warcraft? Go ahead and tell me, because I don't bloody know and Blizzard hasn't given us an actual definition of honour according to the cultures of Warcraft.Taxania31 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 Question of lore Fellow lore keepers i have a few questions for you. In chronicles cosmology, we see the Light/Shadow concept of the art work, yet the burning legion is closer to the light and the titans closer to the Shadow, does this implement that the titans have the arrogance over there knowledge of the unknown it would make sense however they claimed Azeroth being a world soul with much potential yet they left us and dropped keepers to store knowledge for there own intellect. Sargeras nonetheless being a bit mental has somewhat of a sentimental heart and wants to corrupt world before the void gets to it...... Believe whilst typing this it actually make's sense somehow.Ravensheart6 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 Suramar in TFT Reforged? What do you guys think will Blizzard do with Suramar in the Reforged Frozen Throne night elven campaign? Its ruined state has been retconned in Legion and is in no way compatible with current lore. Do you think they will release it as it was or will they change that part of the campaign? Maybe they could simply say that it is a different ruin than Suramar? With both old and new voiceover being present in the game, I am leaning more towards the former, but I have heard rumors about Blizzard possibly making some changes to the campaigns that go beyond just new maps and unit graphics. What do you guys think? Will Blizz release something in 2019 that is no longer consistent with the current lore?Allastra16 09 Nov 2018
09 Nov 2018 A-H relationship in the future? So, reaching the end of BfA how do you see things turnings out to be? Can we have peace again and a new "Ok we forgive you" MoP style from the Alliance? Personally I hope not, it would be unrealistic. It is obvious that each faction can never be too careful against the other so I'd prefer a toned down ongoing hostility over the coming years. Bonus question: Can BfA be considered the 4th War? ( Or the 5th one if you count Legion, since WC3 was against the Legion as well and was considered the 3rd War)Zeraldias46 09 Nov 2018
08 Nov 2018 Forest Trolls as allied race Forest trolls, one of the oldest horde races and yet not playable. The story behind them wasted with a single raid. Does anyone else feel like newer races like Blood elves and Nighborne are changing The Horde to something too similar like the Alliance. Even upcoming Zandalari trolls are more "human" version of the original trolls. Thats why im feeling like we need few races less pretty, like Forest Trolls or Ogres. Zandalari Trolls opens the door storywise and they have rich backstory witch would be easy to continue. I personally would prefer Amani as playable clan, because story would have to get really interesting between them and the Blood Elfs and Zul'Aman would make great starting zone. But if that would be too much there is of course Raventusk clan, long time friend of the Horde. And for the Alliance counter race, i personally would pick Wildhammer clan another forgotten gem. I know these would mean that the Horde would have 3 races of Trolls and the Alliance 3 races of Dwarfs but at least numbers would add up. Please do comment if you agree or disagree, and open up your opinion Thank you for reading.Moistzerker66 08 Nov 2018
08 Nov 2018 Does the Alliance now have two variants of Void Elf? https://gfycat.com/NarrowLikelyElk It seems like the 'dark side' of Elune manifests as void magic. isn't this a little worrying?Taxania10 08 Nov 2018
08 Nov 2018 Free will? Nathanos: "Derek Proudmoore is being kept In the Hall of Ritual until preparations are completed to properly twist his mind"Alestra62 08 Nov 2018
08 Nov 2018 Warcraft III Reforged Anyone else hyped for this? I already love it! It will bring me back to the good ol' days of Kaldorei power! I can't wait to have it! Especially since Warcraft 3 got me into the whole Warcraft franchise to begin with! It will be good to go back to when the Forsaken and Kaldorei story were still good and not ruined by so many faults and flaws!Moridunum127 08 Nov 2018
08 Nov 2018 Why aren't there any dark rangers in your ranks? In the preparation phase of the Seething Shore battleground, Nathanos is sad that only pathetic classes joined his ranks for the azerite mining. "Let me have a look at you. Hm, pathetic. Why aren't there any dark rangers in your ranks? Well, you will have to do." Do you think we could possibly get them as a playable class? Imo, it could be true, as there were only melee additions to the classes in the past.Soflay10 08 Nov 2018
08 Nov 2018 Sylvanas will not be Garrosh 2.0 From the people who brought to "Wait and see!": https://www.wowhead.com/news=288415/thrall-sylvanas-and-garrosh-story-hints-from-the-blizzcon-2018-q-a ... ... I do not know why people are so mad at the story. Each expansion had a theme, it is just that BfA's theme is comedy.Darvingar80 08 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 Zandalari demoniac So the Zandalari have no connection with fel!?!?!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFaMntOsKh4 Check your lore blizzard: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Demoniac According to this they have potetial for warlocks and demon hunters! And could be even stronger then other raecs. Nice day to you all.Shoga12 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 Warcraft book lore. Could you keep up with most of the lore through the books and comics if you quit wow or have never played before? I've been getting into other games because wow is the only game ive been playing for a number of years now, but I don't want to fall behind on the lore, what do you cool dudes and dudettes recommend I do?Smileyborne4 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 What is Human Potential? I hear this term thrown about a lot and I never understand what it means? So what does human potential actually mean?Telriem24 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 Which class best represents a troll witch doctor? In the vein of the discussion about which class best represents tidesages, I have a question. Would you suggest a priest, a shaman, a mage or a warlock for the role of a troll witch doctor?Taxania11 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 Kul Tiran Mages Kul Tirans can't be Mages even though their leader, Lord Admiral Jaina Proudmoore, is the most powerful Human sorceress alive. #Logic You would think that, since Boralus is one of the busiest and most popular trade hubs in the world (so lots of cultures and traditions interact and intermingle there), and Kul Tirans descend from the Gilneans (who can be Mages), that they would have some knowledge of Magic, albeit rudimentary or lacking compared to "older" (NOT WISER OR SMARTER) races like Draenei and Elves. Apparently, Pandaren Mages (I have literally never seen a Pandaren Mage NPC in the game) and Mag'har Mages (who were never allies of Undead/Blood Elves, so I don't know how they learnt Magic in the first place...) make much more sense than Kul Tiran Mages.Arctur58 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 Tyrande to finish off Azshara After seeing that 8.1 video with Tyrande at the end, she looked like f*ing night elf Queen, I really wanna see her stick it to Azshara, especially if it turns out Azshara orchestrated the genocide of the Kaldorei by manipulating the horde - all part of the old God's design ofcKalibas46 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 It's official now - Saurfang is traitor That new cinematic.. another backstab to the horde pride. Before - some could assume he will do stuff alone. Now he's actually teaming up with Alliance "I hoped you could stop her" Yeah. Lets kill himEdgyjojomeme457 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 Am I missing something? So Derek Proudmoore is the guy we see at the end of the Siege of Boralus cinematic, right? When he comes with the fleet. Now I see this. https://youtu.be/fp7q3_SKULE When did he die and why is Sylvanas resurrecting him?Wickfield2 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 Horde faction pride Hello As a preface, I've played the game since 2006, and I'm an avid lore-hound and have a decently good grasp on the story (even if before the chronicles it was mostly just narrative spaghetti-noodles). I started Alliance, because the Horde races intimidated me with their unfamiliarity, but then I swapped over due to a friends' prompting and haven't looked back since. This post is essentially just me registering observations, as I felt the need to put them to paper as it were, where others can see them. Battle for Azeroth is an expansion in which 'faction fantasy' or 'faction pride' is a driving word, as much as Legion used 'class fantasy' as it's own thematic engine. We have indeed been made keenly aware of a lot of factionleaders that have been silent until now, especially on the Horde, a faction which as a whole went dormant after Vol'jin died. The death of Vol'jin and the ascension of Sylvanas to his seat has driven a spiritual wedge straight down the middle of the Horde proper, a wedge which could be and has been mined for drama and character development. We've seen Varok Saurfang (the player character of the Orc campaign in warcraft 2) take centre stage in want of other known 'core horde' leadership.. and then promptly disappear. The overtones of the War of Thornes were obvious and transmitted well, Sylvanas order to burn the Night Elf capital and the world tree it was built on is to be viewed as a heinous genocidal atrocity. One which we, the Horde players, were made intrinsically complicit in. There is no such thing as a good war, and Saurfang/Zekhan was used in their cinematic (Old Soldier) as a way to reflect on reactions people have when they are thrust into bad situations. Saurfang ceded hope and sought nothing but death, Zekhan desperately clung to his idol-worship to take cues from. They both survived the fall of the Undercity, even if the Overlord was clapped in irons by the alliance king and sent to his dungeon, a dungeon-sentence we were poised to cut short in our mission to free the Zandalari. This is the critical point, the point where rebellion/resistance could logically form or Saurfang could tap out and remain a broken old man who had lost it all. The second choice was taken. With Saurfang removed from the storyline for a good while, the only real voice of the core horde has been Baine Bloodhoof, a character which has seen a sudden surge of activity.. even if that activity tends towards just being ruthlessly cowed (har har) by Sylvanas. Saurfang gone and Vol'jin dead, our player characters forced to play ball with a faction which only shines a light on the Forsaken for the entire first chapter of the war campaign. There is never a choice whether or not the wanton scourge-style necromancy being used should appal our characters/us as players, no choice to opt out of being hand-picked for an extended grave-digging romp throughout Kul'tiras. We're just made mute and complicit yet again, acting as Cameras to view the story rather than participants within it. And then the latest pre-rendered cinematic dropped (Lost Honour), in which Anduin Wrynn and Varok Saurfang have an exchange in the Stockades, followed by the young king letting the old soldier out.. with the express intent to seek aid from him in defeating Sylvanas. This is the point in which 'Horde faction pride' shatters. Sylvanas is most probably being positioned to be deposed, the old Core Horde is desperate to find their representation again, player characters are given some measure of agency in the conflict between absolute genocidal ruthlessness and complicity.. and the hope for a redemption towards the old ways. But it doesn't matter. High Overlord Varok Saurfang didn't escape with us when we found him, he didn't escape on his own, he didn't linger in the cell to sit out the war, he was released by the 'High king' of the Alliance himself.. in exquisite pre-rendered detail. High Overlord Varok Saurfang has rather than acting on his own agency made himself into a tool wielded by Anduin Wrynn. SOMEHOW a short exchange with the boy-king has made the old soldier see the light and go forth to oppose the sitting warchief. Once again, the Horde faction is being set up to be thankful towards the tender mercies rendered upon us by a member of House Wrynn. Is being indebted to an Alliance king the cost of faction Horde pride? Is it this, or being a complicit animated camera filming Sylvanas and Nathanos do sick flips over stacked Night elf skulls and impaled babies?Sherincal61 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 Sylvanas Raid Predictions Hey guys, let's predict what bosses and encounters will there be in the inevitable SoO 2.0. Right now, there is a very significant lack of important Forsaken to be used as loot pinatas, so Blizzard will have to improvise. Perhaps old characters could be raised from the dead, like Garithos?Ashval18 07 Nov 2018
07 Nov 2018 How many Kaldorei did you save during the Burning? As the Burning of Teldrassil was such a memorable event that will stick in the hearts and minds of the Alliance forever and justify any action taken against the Horde from now on, I am curious, how many Night Elves do you recall saving from the flames when you did that mission on your main, or your primary Alliance character? Did you save as many as you could or were your efforts more like https://i.imgur.com/DBfaDH0.png? It's been a few months now, so I'd like to know how strongly this world-changing event has stuck with you.Taxania51 07 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 Night Elf Heritage Armour Just stumbled across this, what do you all think? https://i.redd.it/592owox1npf11.jpgTelriem14 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 Sylvanas using the blight I found this interesting reply on MMO Champion ... Plus to the above, The alliance players should be ashamed. They keeps saying all the time Sylvanas is lich queen and she must be killed and turned on just because using the blight once. I would like just to say, Alliance forces include void maniacs. But did anyone said anything? OH NO SYLVANAS ATTACKED MY BOYDUIN! SHE MUST BE KILLED FOR THIS WAR CRIME! SHE IS GARROSH 2.0! the worst part of this thrill is blizzard writers ( which is obvious they are alliance fans ) support the alliance community in this nonesense. What a shame....Rashingan40 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 Characters presence I have something I need to ask and I know this might purely be for gameplay mechanics and whatnot and may be to hard to implement but I had to say something. After all these years and what our characters have faced down, the cosmic horrors and such, you would think that the bog standard run of the mill bandit would piss himself at the mere presence of a Warlock or a Death Knight atleast. Usualy it boils down to ¨' Ey lads, let's shank em¨, having 4 bandits with knives attacking a undead killing machine clad in dark armor and almost certainly giving off a aura of dread, or a dark sorcerer oozing with fel and shadow. Maybe I am just overthinking but I would assume that we would strike fear into the lowlife atleast, same could be said for all the other classes aswell, though others could be alot less obvious clearly, just had to give my two cents, have a good day still.Franshesca4 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 Do you think they are building up to bring Arthas back? Perhaps it is just my inner fanboy talking but there does seem to be a lot of hints and references. Also this is spoilers ahead for people still questing in the zones and haven't done Jania's story arc questchain. Uther's Tomb being updated with little to no reason yet, Arthas got a new model which has quite a resemblance to Anduin (honestly his old WoW model looked so !@#$ing derpy glad they actually did it), him being so intertwined with both Jania and Sylvanas who seem to be the main leader of each faction currently. Thros/the Blighted Lands looks and resembles the Shadowlands a lot, if not completely and could be the same. Many more things like the daughter of the Lich King coming into the play, more Scourge joining the Forsaken etc.. I can't be the only one who feels like this is leading somewhere. I feel like Blizzard might be building up to bring him back like they did with Illidan. While a lot of people, including myself partly, think Arthas's story is over and done with I can't help but feel excitement if he does, along with a bag of mixed emotions as well. But if he is done well (pleasssssssse) then I can't possibly do anything but love it xd. They have the means to do it, within the game and outside of the game. If people are willing to forgive Illidan and Sylvanas, even actively defend her then people should surely do it with Arthas as well. At least Arthas did it while basically being controlled unlike Sylvanas. His body is still missing as well and is never explained where it went... Anyone else think that perhaps his body was buried beside Uther in his tomb!?Frozengrip46 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 The Shrine of the Storm Spoilers) So a recent interview with Jeremy Feasel, Senior Game Designer, shed some interesting light on N'zoth's current location: "During the Crucible of Storms raid, the factions will learn that there is something dark under the sea and that a portion of N'Zoth is right under the Shrine of the Storm." Fascinating! So a portion of N'zoth himself (his actual body, as we can see from Warbringers: Azshara N'zoth is mastodontic) lies right beneath the ominous Shrine of the Storm, the seat of House Stormsong from which the legendary Kul Tiran Fleet is blessed by the wise Tidesages so that it may suffer no rival. What a chilling thought, to think that N'zoth has been so close to Boralus for over two thousand years, and no one even had a clue. No wonder that Lord Stormsong fell to madness. I have no doubt now that Kul Tirans will play a pivotal role in stopping N'zoth's nefarious plans. They control Azeroth's finest Fleet, their aid will be of great importance to us, and no other race on the Alliance/Horde is as close to N'zoth as they are. I must commend the people of House Stormsong for resisting for so long despite a fraction of an actual Old God located under their homes! Their mental fortitude truly is astonishing. Most people would be driven mad by a mere general of the Old Gods (looking at the Quel'dorei).Arctur11 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 Sylvanas, Xal'atath, will she use it on Alleria? So, apparently Xal'atath gets released from the black blade... Supposedly the black blade can 'hold' an old god (with Xal'atath being an old god waay back in the day, weaker than the other old gods on Azeroth). This would mean that the blade is now an empty vessel. An empty vessel that Sylvanas ends up getting her hands on. Do you think Sylvanas might be planning to seal Alleria into the blade? The three sisters comic showed us that Alleria's whispers were going crazy when she got in touch with Sylvanas. The void in Alleria called Sylvanas the true enemy, and urged Alleria to kill her immediately. So if the void considers death the true enemy, do you think Sylvanas might be fighting the void, and in order to defeat the void, imprison Alleria into the black blade? Or better yet, do you think Sylvanas might be wanting to seal Alleria into the blade in order to not have to kill her own sister? Is she even capable of such sentiment anymore? One might argue that she is not, though the comic clearly showed that there is a semblance of humanity left in Sylvanas when she called off her Dark Rangers from killing Alleria and Vereesa.. What do you guys think?Alarisiel12 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 Ok Sylvanas people, you convinced me. After seeing this cinematic, I am 100% convinced. Sylvanas was right. Look at that Warmongering beast Anduin. No way he wouldnt have attacked us if we hadnt attacked first. I mean, look at him, how he is relishing this war, how he enjoys every second of it. See these eyes full of bloodlust? Yeah, he would have attacked us in no time. We had no chance but to attack first. Please forgive me for misjudging Sylvanas. She was right and everything she did, she did for the Horde!Xemeron44 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 8.1: Meaningful choices with a story of their own https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nGnT6WZbeI Interview with Afrasiabi. Bit regarding players agency about siding with Saurfang or Sylvanas. 21:48 onward. Recommend to watch. They are discussing about actually having completely divergent quest lines until resolution at the end. They aren't treating the choice about siding Sylvanas or siding Saurfang as something like the 'good path' and the 'bad path'. Two story-lines. Two perspectives. The ones loyal to Sylvanas, and the ones loyal to Saurfang. And build two different lines that, and i quote Afrasiabi, "do both sides justice". This.....is kind of reassuring. Won't get my hopes up, but if this means what it seems to mean, then there is some hope. Opinions?Zarao37 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 Zandalar storyline was trash... Do you disagree? Because if so,I'd love to hear why. I just forced myself into finishing it after reaching max level from clearing Nazmir and Zuldazar. It felt weak right from the start,the horde intro quest was incredibly bad,and it didn't get much better from there,but what really left me just confused was the culmination,the Zandalar forever scenario/cinematic... What the hell was that? Mythraxx randomly out of nowhere comes to Zandalar,apparently noone saw him coming from a mile away,and he just chills on the outskirts,at one point Talanji tells you,don't worry we will keep him back,this is LFR mode+I saw fatboss were fine,go with my dad. Zul Confrontation: Rastakhan demands Bwonsamdi to fulfil his end of the bargain,which is apparently grant Rastakhan the ability to jump high,Zul just gives up midfight,Mythrax fires a random beam and apparently just leaves? Along with the entire Nazmir force? And Rastakhan says they have won the battle but haven't won the war? Can someone please explain to me which parts of this I need to enjoy and at which parts do I need to react with "Woaaah epiccc" cuz I'm seriously feeling like the Horde got the shaft...hard.Behelít35 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 Darkshore Warfront, a Illidari missed. While i do love the Trailer for the Darkshore i do feel sad that so far from what i have seen, there are no Illidari involved. I mean how better to help show the edgyness of the new night elves than by fighting with their cursed brothers and sisters. So far i have yet to see any of them what happens to them Blizz?Koradan19 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 BFA = Battle for the Alliance? Now this is not some Alliance biased baseless topic. But seriously the way we look at the story at the moment. -the Alliance uniting strongly, growing stronger. -the Horde is fighting among themselves and slowly turning against each other growing weaker. For some reason whenever we've a faction conflict in wow, the Horde needs to turn upon itself, have a soul search and what else bloody not kind of not good a thing to do while at war with a Juggernaut of military force! Which honestly makes little sense if you look at the structure of the Horde. -If you dislike the leadership you can claim it through ritual combat. so, why is the Horde never actually using this to simply deal with the -unapproved leadership- the Warchief is the ruler of the Horde with ultimate authority. You don't like the way the person run things? Mak'gora it is and into the Ring. Garrosh did it with Thrall. Cairne did with Garrosh. So, why in the world does the Horde need a bloody soul search? Next we've the whole with the Horde always going crazy. Leaders for some reason just goes on a murder spree and what not. or does some random stuff to say: this person bad for the Horde! It happened with Garrosh who went from: Stand Strong with the Horde, to Only orcs are worthy. It is happening with Sylvanas that burned a country down and is raising the dead left and right discarding them as quickly as they use them. BFA Does not feel like a story that was meant for the Horde to feel any faction pride, it simply feels like an ego stroke to the Alliance. While the Horde has to feel ashamed of their very existence now. 8.1 shows some promise but seriously it can't be that hard to write a faction war without having the Horde turn on itself. I want to see the factions go at each other, and not the Horde fighting itself and the Alliance. Why does the Horde always get these highly unnecessary out of nowhere inner conflict slapped atop of it? Why can't we have the Alliance go upon a soul search for once? or even better have them go on the offensive against the Horde, since now would had been their best chance to enforce an Alliance peace upon the Horde. (Start of BFA) we had the entire set up from Before the Storm making it clear that Anduin had made a decision to remove Sylvanas when he was able. But instead we get the -the Horde is at it again cos'. a good war did put up a pretty good reasoning behind the attack of the Night elf lands. But do you know what would had been even better? the Alliance sending their armies to the UC to remove Sylvanas Since by Anduin's own words from MoP. -the best thing is to replace the leadership to one we can work with. It would had provided a far more interesting narrative as a Horde character, and not in any way had ruined anything for the Alliance. Horde Players would actually feel like fighting the enemy rather than going: I wonder when SoO v2 is happening.Sariku104 06 Nov 2018
06 Nov 2018 Mag'har Unlock - Inconsistencies and Impossibilities For reference: https://youtu.be/cEaurbg7XtQ Anachronos: "Is it time for you to visit me already? Yes, I suppose it is then." Thematically inconsistent: “Unto you is charged the great task of keeping the purity of time." The Bronze Dragonflights task is to prevent any interference with the timeline. Throughout history, they were repeatedly approached for help, but they always refused to turn back time. Even in the one exception of the War of the Shifting Sands where they themselves were threatened, they acted in the present, not in the past. Their entire task revolves around preserving even the most terrible events: The opening of the Dark Portal, the razing of Stratholme, the creation of the Dragon Soul. Yet, when a Horde adventurer comes asking for help connecting the timeline back to the alternate universe Draenor in order to gain allies for their war on Azeroth, Anachronos agrees without a moments hesitation. Sources: - Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects, page 286 - Day of the Dragon, page 104 - The War of the Shifting Sands - World of Warcraft - Several Dungeons Anachronos: "It was there that Gul'dan used a piece of the Vision of Time to travel between realities." Chronologically improbable, technically impossible: The Vision of Time was shattered on Azeroth during the trial of Garrosh, prior to the events of Warlords of Draenor. Chromie gathered all the shards, save for one, which was taken by Kairozdormu to Draenor and later handed to Garrosh. This is the only shard Gul'dan could have retrieved. There is no known instance of Gul'dan visiting Nagrand between the events of "Gul'dan and the Stranger", and Grommash putting him in chains after the events at the Throne of Kil'Jaeden. After his release at the Dark Portal by the adventurers, he does go into hiding, but neither he, nor the Legion have a presence in Nagrand. Though he does at some point retrieve Gorehowl from Garrosh's corpse in Nagrand, he doesn't know about his origins, the Vision of Time, or time magic in general. Even if Garrosh had the shard on him at the time of his death, between that, and the beginning of the Tanaan campaign, there was no time for Gul'dan to learn to use it, let alone in a way that exceeded a single shards power. Kairozdormu himself admitted that the shard could only resonate with the original Azeroth, where the rest of it's pieces lay. Sources: - War Crimes - Hellscream, pages 4-6 - Gul'dan and the Stranger - World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - Intro cinematic - Patch 6.1 - The Legendary Quest Continues Eitrigg: "Durotan was chieftain of the Frostwolves. Never have I known a more honorable orc. He was a true leader who loved his people. I miss his wisdom." Impossible bond: Eitrigg was born a Blackrock clan member. He became a Blackrock clan lieutenant during the Horde preparations of the attack on Azeroth during the First War, overseeing the building of the war machinery in Gorgrond. He would serve under the Blackhand, then later follow Ogrim Doomhammer as advisor. Durotan and the Frostwolves made up only a miniscule portion of the Old Horde with about 80 members. While the Frostwolves followed the Old Horde to Azeroth, they did so with little other choice. Soon after the invasion of Azeroth, the Frostwolves were removed from the Old Horde. The adoration Eitrigg holds for Durotan can impossibly have come from actual knowledge, as they served the same banner for about 4 to 5 years, and had no contact even during that time. Sources: - World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 83 - World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2 page 129 Eitrigg: "Heroes from my world once freed yours from the grip of tyrants." Now Azeroth faces a similar threat" Logically inconsistent: The tyrants Eitrigg could refer to are Imperator Mar'gok, Gul'dan, Garrosh, and first and foremost Grommash himself: The Gorian Empire had long since been reeling, and had little influence on Draenor. They would have been destroyed be the Horde in the years to come. Gul'dan "ruled" over Tanaan for only a very short time and only picked up an already existing social structure. Garrosh only commanded the Warsong and he did so under Grommash. Grommash was the only true ruler of nearly all of Draenor for the longest time. What Eitrigg is saying here, is, that Grommash owes the Horde for crushing his empire and killing his not-quite son Garrosh. Sources: - World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 64 - World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 96-97 - World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor Eitrigg: "Now Azeroth faces a similar threat" Twisted logic: The Horde launched a full on attack on the Nightelven capital during a time of peace, murdered countless innocents after already having won the war, kills their own soldiers in a gas attack, and blows up one of their own capital cities to prevent the Alliance from claiming it. Yet, Eitrigg formulates this as if the Alliance were tyrants similar to Grommash, trying to kill everyone who opposes them. Sources: - War of the Thorns - Siege of Lordaeron Eitrigg: "You are the daughter of Durotan and Draka. I see them both in you." Impossible bond: Eitrigg claims to see a Warchief from a small clan he had no possible business with, as well as the Warchiefs mate, both people who have been dead for 42 years, in a woman he has known for five minutes. Sources: - World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 83 - World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2 page 129 Geya'rah: "My father fell in battle to the Lightbound." Shifting Alliances: Durotan and the Frostwolves had almost been killed by Grommash and, together with the Draenei, played an instrumental part in his downfall. Still, Durotan chose to ally under the new old Warchief of the new Mag'har Horde, against the Draenei he fought together with to free his people. From Grommash. Sources: - World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - Battle for Shattrath - World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - Fury of Hellfire Geya'rah: "But without demons to fight, the draenei became fixated upon their precious Light. Their naaru masters compelled them to spread their influence among the orcs." Inconsistent characters: Assuming the naaru on AU Draenor are the same naaru that landed with the draenei in what is Outland, that would mean the following naaru now occupy AU Draenor: K'ara, D'ore, and K'ure. K'ure is killed after transforming into a void god, and D'oro would need another 20 or so years before regenerating. The next point would be, if more Naaru arrived on Draenor to lead the draenei, who would that be: The same Naaru that came to Outland when Velen and Khadgar called for help. After all, it is extremely unlikely that on all of space, several ships just happened to be close to the same planet. This would mean that the "naaru masters" who compelled the draenei to force the Light on the orcs were A'dal, who took in the Bloodelves and commanded the attack on Illidan at the Black Temple, Xi'ri, who led that attack, and O'ros, son(?) of Xe'ra, among others. The very same naaru who had so little connection to the fanatical arm of the Light that they killed "the chosen one". Sources: - World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 51 - World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 3, pg. 140 - World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade Geya'rah: "The tyranny of the Light must be ended!" Inconsistent portrayal: The Light has saved both Azeroth and Outland countless times, providing the only real means of defence against overwhelming foes. The Light is often said to bring about feelings of positive emotion— hope, courage, comfort— and the like. This is the first portayal as of the Light as an antagonist, without providing any meaningful reason for why things are happening. Source: - Ask CDev Answers - Round 3 - Warcraft 1, 2, 3 - World of Warcraft Geya'rah: "No... a naaru... Not again!" (as a Naaru casts some sort of area attack, shackling every orc. It is implied this will result in them turning to the Light.) Inconsistent abilities: There are numerous instances of Naaru being involved in battle - Xi'ri, M'uru, K'iru, O'ros - and all of them remained passive supports to the point were some of them died. There is only one instance of a naaru attacking, K'ara the former Dark Star in the defense of Karabor, and that involved a lenghty wind up, which resulted in the destruction of several enemy ships. Yet Geya'rah reacts to a naaru appearing in the middle of an outpost, out of thin air, instantly incapacitating every orc in a huge radius, like a recurring occurence. While it is certainly possible that not all naaru have the same powers, Azeroth and Outland have seen 15 different Naaru, of which none have shown to have a comparable power. Sources: - World of Warcraft: Illidan, chapter 29 - World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade - Blood of the Highborne - WoW: Legion - Quest "Bringer of the Light" - WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "The Defense of Karabor" Exarch Orelis: "Cease this pointless defiance, Mag'har!" (Entering in a Warframe) Impossible technology: The Exarch pilots a Lightforged Warframe. Assuming it is the Tempest Keep with A'dal that landed on AU Draenor, there were no Lightforged Warframes on board of the ship. If the Draenei had somehow gotten their hands on the knowledge to build the pinnacle of Light war machinery, they could have still not build it on Draenor, as they lacked most, if not all materials to build it. Should they actually have managed to make such rapid advances in technology in just a 30 year time span, it is unlikely the Mag'har, which consist of the remnants of the decimated Iron Horde, could have held their own for this long. Sources: - WoW: Legion - Quest "Scars of the Past" - WoW: Legion - Quest "A Touch of Fel" Orelis: "The Light can heal the scars of war!" - Geya'rah "Our scars are not yours to take!" This is an unnecessary mirror of the "Rejection of the Gift" cinematic between Illidan and Xe'ra. Xe'ra "Your old life has past; the Light will forge you a new one." Illidan: "It is not yours to take!" Xe'ra: "The Light will heal your scars." Geya'rah: "[...] until Draenor is free!" A direct reference to the scene at the end of Warlords of Draenor, when Grommash screamed it at the death of Archimonde. Back then, Grommash was the driving force behind the enslavement and death of nearly all non-orcish life on Draenor. It is unclear whether this is meant to signify that Grommash was right, and all draenei should have been killed. Yrel: "We must make Draenor whole again." Missing reference: It is not clear to what Yrel is referencing here, as Draenor was never truly unified. The Orcs originally lived in clans who would fight each other and only convene once a year semi-peacefully. After they united into the Iron Horde, the orcs tried to kill all draenei. After the events of Warlords of Draenor the orcs and draenei fought against the legion together, but the Legion had many followers from those races as well. Not to forget that ogres and arakkoa also still exit. This might be a reference to how the draenei and orcs fought the demons left on Draenor together. The problem with this is, that there are no demons left to fight fight together, and if the goal was to fight alongside the Army of Light, then they would have to leave the planet, which would make a war for unity moot. Yrel: "The Light will forge a new future for the orcs" Another mirror of the Rejection of the Gift. Yrel: "The Light Mother has blessed me with visions." Impossible contact: The "Sermon of the High Exarch" you can find on the corpse of Orelis, explains how Yrel had received visions from X'era, detailing the Army of Light's exploits and plans. This is in stark contrast to our timeline, where Xe'ra died, send her core to Azeroth, a planet important for several reasons, and there conveyed visions in the most roundabout way possible, to champions who where essential to the fate of the universe. In the timeline of AU Draenor, Xe'ra can somehow make contact and show visions to some unimportant backwater planet with a Draenei population that had lost a lot of it's technology, as well as been nearly wiped out. They didn't even have a working spaceship - the Genedar, now Oshu'gun, is completely wrecked and insalvagable. There is no discernable value in the planet or its populace. It makes no sense for the Naaru that arrived to bring these visions either, as the last ship we know to have landed on Outland having been completely oblivious to the Light Mothers great design. Sources: - Wow: Legion - Light's Heart - Wow: Legion - Shadowmoon Valley - Wow: Legion - Oshu'gun Yrel: "Exarch Hellscream has been an example for his people to follow." Dead end: Grommash's own son converted willingly to the Light, and there is no background or follow up on this. It's just a bare-bones information with no further value. On the Draenei's supremacy over the planet Inconsistent numbers: Both orcs and draenei had taken heavy losses during the events of Warlords of Draenor. One reason, why the Orcs could so quickly amass such terrifying numbers, despite their hunter-and-gatherer lifestyle was due to them reaching maturity before age 10. Their life expectancy is arguably short, and their mating cycle can mean that within the 30 years Draenor had been uninterrupted, three new orc generations could have reached fighting age, and a fourth could have been borne. Draenei on the other hand live to be +25.000 years old (also said to be "ageless"), and are considered young at 230 years old. Even if the Iron Horde had been nearly annihilated, and the Draenei kept all their original numbers, it is entirely impossible for draenei to outnumber the Orcs after 30 years. Sources: - Wow: WotLK - [Brazie's Dictionary of Devilish Draenei Damsels] - Rise of the Horde - Rise of the Horde, pg. 158 - The Art of World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor, pg. 139 Grommash: "It is the Light that has doomed this world!" Inconsistent portrayal: The Light and its worship is ancient. The Draenei have been following it for millenia, and the humans centuries. It has saved the world on several occasions, and protected life more often than not. Yet, after 30 years of Light worship on Draenor by Yrel, the planet becomes Light corrupted. There actually is a "Light-corrupted" place on Azeroth, too. It's Light's Hope Chapel in the Eastern Plaguelands. A place so infused with the Light, that the corruption of undeath and darkness are powerless within it's reach, and life springs forth against all odds. Yrel: "It pains me to lose an old friend, Grommash." Thematically inconsistent: Hellscream nearly brought ruin to both Draenor and Azeroth. The Alliance, Horde, Draenei, and Frostwolf had taken great care to remove him from power. Yet, Grommash Hellscream became the Warchief of the Mag'har. Grommash had personally overseen the killing of Yrel's sister. It was under his orders that her people where captured and sacrificed like cattle. His forces had attacked and desecrated some of the draeneis most holy places. Yet, 30 years later, he's an old friend. Sources: - World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "The Dark Side of the Moon" - WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Talador - WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Karabor Sylvanas: "I trust honor means as much to you, as it does to him?" Inconsistent character / duplicitous: Sylvanas asking about honor after the events at Darkshore and Undercity is either completely inconsistent with her character as ruthless and coldhearted mass murderer, or a clear deceit of the Mag'har. About the "Mag'har" Thematically inconsistent: "Mag'har" is orcish for "uncorrupted". The Outland orcs named that themselves after the Old Horde had drank the blood of Mannoroth, turning over 90% of the population into the corrupted, green orcs. The Iron Horde Grommash led in Draenor was never corrupted, and the few who joined Gul'dan did not make up even 50% of the remaining orcs. There wasn't this one defining moment at the Throne of Kil'Jaeden where the fate of the Orcs was decided. For all intents and purposes, the Iron Horde, the orcs who had not drank the blood and still chosen to attempt genocide, could count as the corrupted, as they had been drunk on their "racial supremacy". There is no reason the "Mag'har" are uncorrupted - there aren't even any corrupted orcs left on AU Draenor. Sources: - Wolfheart, chapter 4 - Ultimate Visual Guide, pg. 115 - Beyond the Dark Portal About Yrel's fanatisim Thematically inconsistent: Yrel had ended up a slave in the mines of Tanaan after the Iron Horde declared war on all other races. Her sister, friends, and whatever other family she had, had died due to the war. Her mentor sacrificed himself to save the draenei. Yet, once the world had been saved from the brink of destruction to which the Legion and the orcs had brought it, Yrel decides to start another war - to end wars. A lot of people very dear to her have died, so now she sends more of her people to die. To put this more into a perspective, the draenei have been incredibly consistent in their overall portrayal, as well as their individual character behavior: The draenei are refugees from a planet they left 25.000 years ago, switching planets whenever danger loomed. Velen opposed the Burning Legion 25.000 years ago and has since poured his all into keeping them save, knowing that the Legion is no enemy they could fight. They always tried to keep peace and a low profile, going as far as to hide their cities. Yrel is High Exarch for less than 40 years and turns from someone whose dearest wish is keeping her people save, into an unbeatable juggernaut with powerful Naaru warmachines at her disposal, conquering the planet and annihilating everyone who opposes her. This is all in spite of her not striking down Grommash as he was bound to the crystal in Hellfire Citadel. Or the fact that the draenei had been traveling space for millennia without ever meeting any more Naaru or receiving help from the Army of Light before, regardless of nearly having been wiped out several times. Sources: - WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "The Dark Side of the Moon" - WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "The Battle for Shattrath" - WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "Darkness Falls" - Rise of the Horde - World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 63 - The Burning Crusade Townhall/DraeneiYiqiandiren35 06 Nov 2018
05 Nov 2018 We are coming for you! I just want to say tnx to Ion Hazzikostas. NE are not tree hugging hippies, just like you said. This cinematic was the best! This owl made my cry! For Kaldorei! For Teldrassil! For Elune! Warriors of the night assemble! Sylvanas we are coming for you!Призраклеса234 05 Nov 2018
05 Nov 2018 8.2 What's next predictions. What do you guys think is going to happen in the Whats next panel in just over half a hour? Given recent events I'd say this has to be the height of the faction war, I highly doubt they will bring Old Gods into this just yet. But what it will involve I wonder. What do you guys think will happen in 8.2?Frozenshadow8 05 Nov 2018
05 Nov 2018 Bilgewater Cannon and the Alliance consequences Well, guys, it looks like the Alliance's war-crimes in 8.1 have finally provoked the Horde. As per the Q&A, Gallywix has had ENOUGH and will be firing the Bilgewater cannon! We already know as of the new cinematic the Alliance has no soldiers left and are relying on farmers now, it looks like the Bilgewater Cartel will be finishing the job done at Lordaeron. So I ask you the following questions: ... For me, I think that Gallywix may destroy the Vindicaar first. My Lightforged, Draamphus the Pure, will be one of the victims and will be turned into ash, screaming a final "Noooo! This can't be happening! Anduin, help meee ...!" as he explodes. What are your thoughts? I'd love to hear your input, please no attempts to derail or troll this thread. All trolling will be reported! Can we get 15+ likes if you agree? For the Horde!Tootz84 05 Nov 2018
05 Nov 2018 The return of the Original Warchief Hey, So now on Q&A, Metzen made a stellar appearence. And this was what he asked: ... How would players feel about having Thrall return to the warchief seat? This doesn't mean its happening. This doesn't mean Sylvanas is dying, or that is stepping down*. Nothing has yet been confirmed in either way, or in a official manner. *Note: in fact they made a whole video at Blizzcon that highlighted her important role in warcraft par on Tyrael from Diablo and Kerrigan from Starcraft. Its just an hypothetical questionZarao26 05 Nov 2018
05 Nov 2018 Blizzard, please do a class change for Sylvanas Yes, you heard me right. This is another Sylvanas thread. And yes, you also heard that one right- she should change character class. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that she's an undead archer. Her repertoire includes cursed arrowheads and shadow magic that eats away at her opponent's lifeforce, while vanishing from sight and appearing elsewhere, firing her arrows with unerring accuracy. When fighting her as Alliance, she can even summon skeletons, though this is hardly ever shown elsewhere. However, I find faults at her lacking skill-set. Given the fact that she is "The Dark Lady" and queen of the Forsaken, she should've mastered the art of necromancy- which she has yet to do- a long time ago. At the end of the day, she is just a banshee possessing a corpse, and has her underlings do all the raising for her, be it necromancers or val'kyries. As the Queen of the Forsaken, the Dark Lady and the supposed Queen of the Dead, she sure is lacking in the necromantic department. As her stature demands, she should lay down her bow for a while and begin studying. She should pick up a staff and her spellbook, and begin casting and chanting instead of shooting and performing acrobatics. Not mastering necromancy, not being able to raise countless hordes at a whim does not do for a supposed "Queen of the Dead". It only makes her an overrated undead archer. Hell, with Scholomance so near (and captured by players so long ago) she should be in no shortage of necromantic spellbooks and academic lore. She is literally surrounded by necromantic academics that could teach her the arts. So Blizzard, I implore you: it doesn't have to be forever, and it doesn't have to be this expansion or the next. But please, take my advice and turn Sylvanas, the Queen of the Forsaken, into an actual necromantic, staff-wielding powerhouse, some time in the future. An undead faction rests on the head of their faction, and there is certainly something wrong with it when the leader can only raise a few skellies on occasion. A true necromantic force to be reckoned with would be one that could raise dead- human, elf, orc, dragon, it doesn't matter- for miles and miles around, and control them all separately- a feat so far only achieveved by the Lich King, in the Warcraft universe. Make the change, and you will see that Sylvanas can and will be a better character from it.Ellieth13 05 Nov 2018
05 Nov 2018 Baine and Saurfang are pussies I just wanted to say that both Saurfang and Baine are spineless weaklings for not going all out against the Alliance during WAR. I mean, I have personally never partaken in a war, but I imagine it would be pretty easy to put your life on the line and to kill other people, so the fact that Baine and Saurfang fail to live up to my ideal of a situation I have never been in proves to me that they are cowards. I mean, how hard can it be to put yourself in a situation in which you die? I do it all the time with my character in game and that definetly a good standard by which to judge the mental fortitude of actual warriors. So what if we killed a million elf children? This is WAR! In WAR you are supposed to kill everyone on the other side. Sylvanas told me so, and she is pragmatic, which I think means smart. I sure as hell would not have qualms about it if I were in their shoes, I imagine, so they are spineless traitors for having any doubts. I mean, who has not burned down an orphanage once or twice? I wish we could just get rid of them, because we have so many other well-established characters that could take their place. After all, there is no place in the Horde for diferring viewpoints. Everyone should just agree with Sylvanas. That will not be boring or one-sided at all. There is of course no way these characters create a balance and variety to the faction or that they could be critical to the story in a way I do not understand because I am not part of the creative process, and they defintely could not be developed in a manner I will ultimately enjoy in the future, so they should just be killed off, not wasting any character potental like they did with Garrosh.Darvingar39 05 Nov 2018
05 Nov 2018 horde get a choice - why don't alliance? I'm a bit out of the loop narrative-wise, but as far as I can gather 8.1 gives Horde players a choice: side with Sylvanas and continue the Path of the Edgelord, or side with Sourfang, live with honour, and defeat toxic masculinity or whatever. Basically, the Horde can either be edgy, or not. The Alliance, meanwhile, can follow Anduin in his soy-fuelled quest to win the war and bring the perpetrators of war crimes to justice, or they can do that whilst also having black eyes. Where's my opportunity to play as a vengeance-seeking war criminal who summons treants into the orphanages of Orgrimmar and doesn't afraid of anything? Why do the Horde get to choose one of two nuanced options and I get stuck with sad little Manduin?Owlsong48 05 Nov 2018
05 Nov 2018 How is Anduin plans to win a war? He won at siege of zuldazar... and then just stopped without finishing, because it will make him "as bad as sylvanas". Giving horde time to retreat>regroup>strike back And how exactly Anduin going to win a war if he just going to stop every time he's close to victory? Is he hope that Horde will give up? Is his plan to actually kill Sylvanas with Saurfang hand, make Baine warchief and declare peace?Edgyjojomeme47 05 Nov 2018