Draenei fate after Legion: rename and maybe more?
Hello all! I might get backlash or downvotes or other but please read ahead, as this trully got through my mind. With Blizzcon, we now know 7.3 will be Argus, so not an expansion of its own etc. What that means is that we attack a big foothold of the Legion, maybe we'll go further after in the Twisting Nether, who knows (since we did during Archimonde Mythic fight, we totally can). What that means is probably the true defeat of the Legion, and Sargeras. But what does it mean for the Draenei, and the Man'ari (those we always call Eredar in casual talk, the "corrupted Eredars" while draeneis are "self-exiled eredars"). If the Legion is defeated, a cleansing will start to happen. Fel controlled Man'ari might regain their counciousness (we can notice some neutral in Dalaran or Highmountain already) while some will continue to fight, die etc. That will also mean the Draenei might not consider themselves self-exiled that much anymore: yes their world is no more, but they still retook it. Velen still considers Argus as their home after all. So with the newly neutrals/allied Man'ari, and Argus retaken, the Draenei could be renamed as Eredar again, including red skin color now too! You might say "yes but this would not fit the draenei starting zone" and i agree with you, this would not fit TODAY'S starting zone of the draenei to have Man'ari, but you must consider, like the Blood Elf starting zone, it requires rework. The quests are still of us who recently crashed onto Azeroth, nothing is cleansed (while it has been years already), and many people keep asking for such rework. We must also take into account that the Exodar will be GONE (or at least, not in the ground anymore) since Velen aim to use it to go to Argus! So definitly a change to take into account in term of zone, landscape etc (unless the Exodar crash again at the exact same spot, but I doubt it). To resume, with the hypothetical defeat of the Legion and hypothetical retaking of Argus, the Draenei and the Man'ari might make one again, the Eredars, once again, once the Legion expansion is over, also possibly leading to the draenei (and maybe blood elf) starting zone rework. I would like to hear your opinion on this future lore theory (so WoW story etc). I hope this is the right forum as there is no Race forum and "Story" seemed to fit!5
Strongest armies Pre-WoW
Hey guys, just wanted to ask which army do you guys think is, or rather was, the strongest army, before the batterdown of WoW. WoW has significantly changed the power balance of armies since balance has been included to the lore. For example, Night elven armies consisted of Mountain Giants, which were essentialy moving mountains, almost immune to magic. Yet, in WoW, and correct me if I'm wrong, there's not more than 2 of them helping the Night Elves, in Feralas. But there's not a single one of them helping the Night Elves in Ashenvale, nor were there during Gromash's invasion. In my personal opinion I think that if demons were'nt involved, the Night Elves could have reppeled the Orcs from their forests. Unlike seen in the new Warcraft books and in WoW itself. 10 Mountain Giants, as large as those seen in WoW, can easily destroy most Orc armies, with some support from other units of course. At any rate, i guess you're getting my point. What do you think?10
Are Thalyssra & co worthy to rejoin the NElves?
Question: Are the nightborne under Thalyssra worthy to rejoin the night elves? You know, we often criticse the night elves a lot - and i know we've been very dissatisfied with their activity in world of warcraft, but still, sometimes it's easy to forget what they've done or been through, and after reading this response to a dissatisfied fan, it cause me to rethink a number of things. ... At first seeing the wonder of Suramar and the magical might and advancement of her people I had initially felt the night elves who badly need the magical might and upgrade would be lucky to recount Suramar and it's people amongst their ranks once more. Perhaps the question was never are the night elves able to rise to this or handle the occasion or level of the nightborne, but are the nightborne under Thalyssra worthy to join such company they have in the night elves or stand alongside as proud equal partners in their own right. The nightborne did choose to hide after their astounding victory over the legion closing the second portal, but in fear chose to save the city rather than march out with the rest of the Suramar populace to finish off the problem. 10,000 years later, the legion has once more come knocking, and in fear of destruction, Elisande has instead surrendered to them handing over the crown jewels as she sees it "in order to save her people" - not just on a hunch but after spending 3 days searching the timeways. However instead of surrender to a fate and life with the demons and their great evil, Thalyssra and others instead of chosen, to remember their noble past, those who fought to defend them and instead of hide and cower, at what would equate to a death sentence and certain exclusion from the nourishment of the nightwell, have defied their leaders decision and staking their lives on it, chosen to fight alongside Azeroth in destroying this menace and defending both their city and the planet from it. This time, the nightborne with Thalyssra have chosen not to hide or be silent, but even if it means starving or dying - they would not be a party to the Legion and instead will complete what they should have 10,000 years, and go all the way. Free their city, free their world. In this, I feel by their efforts and actions. Thalyssra and her people have qualified themselves to rejoin and stand alongside their ancient kin, family, friends they separated from. In this the night elf highborne of Suramar, now called the Nightborne earn the right to stand as equals alongside their kin.29
If you could choose what Elune is, what would it be?
So, right now I don't think we know what Elune is, we don't know whether it's a titan or a naaru or what, but.. If you could decide what she is, what would you choose? As for my choise? A mortal, one of the first generation of Night Elves, she would be one who, through the well of eternity, managed to connect to higher powers (naaru perhaps), and became so adept in the connection to the light (and perhaps darker paths aswell) that death did not stop her, her spirit would watch over her people, to this day, she would channel the holy (and perhaps shadow) energies of those which she communed with to the priestresses, she would be just about as powerful as, say, Bwonsamdi, a once-mortal race (well, night elves were not mortal, but you get my point), who ascended beyond that mortality10
The Lich King, most successful villain
By Kel'Thuzad The roots of the Scourge are sewn in the folly of all races. Our rise to power is the product of the sins of those who mean our end. The so called 'heroes' of the land fall before us by resorting to a measure of our ideals to bring forth their envisioned victory. Their victory is a vehicle to the realization that without resorting to what they define as deplorability to achieve it, we would have overcome them instead. In both outcomes, win or lose, the Scourge invariably wins. When this is recognized, submission to our will is inevitable. The Master, our Lich King, was born under this very doctrine. To conquer is to corrupt. To corrupt is to take what it is to be righteous and hopeful, to be living, and invert it through any means in your arsenal. The attributes of the living all have synonyms with fatal flaws that are their undoing: hope is dogma, righteousness is zealotry, living is empathy. Recognize what makes that which lives desire to live, and turn it upon itself. Knowing the most direct path of corruption is the pinnacle of wisdom. A simple weakening of the heart, dismemberment of vital organs, or direct disease will work for most. However the conquer of most is not the decree of the Master, but the conquer of all. It is foolish to spend excessive resources in warping the mind of a simple peasant where the common plague will suffice. But it is equally unwise to try the same plague against the seasoned and hearty. Reasoned study of any formidability will reveal useable weaknesses. The Decree of the Scourge Chapter 2 The largest misconception the living have of the Scourge is our penchant for what is considered 'evil.' For the sake of demoralization we allow this error to perpetuate, and indeed spread it on our own. The true nature of The Scourge is our transcendence of the shackles that keep any of the living races from becoming as prosperous as we. For example: What benefits do emotion and honor really hold? They serve to validate the living, to make them feel 'good.' Now, what flaws do they hold? Emotion is directly correlated to the ignorance of logic and reason. Honor is, at most times, the sole perpetrator of able resources fighting a losing battle. It is baffling even to me that the living can be so unaware of how eager we are to play the part of their villain, to nurture their greatest flaws by becoming the embodiment of all that incites irrational behavior. Moral ambiguity cannot be 'cleansed.' Antipathy cannot be 'healed' or 'assuaged.' Greed cannot be 'dispelled' and wrath cannot be 'cured.' We choose to be the embodiment of all these things, and yet there are some still foolish enough to believe that the Scourge can be defeated and removed completely. So long as the most attractive sins of the living remain our banner flag, there will always be those eager to flock to our will. I myself was born under this doctrine. The Decree of the Scourge Chapter 3 The Scourge is infinite in potential. We are not, however, infallible by any means. Always be well aware of your limits, and the resources at your disposal. Always have an exit strategy. Sacrifice of eager minions to your ends is a cornerstone of Scourge philosophy. All manner of bravery, martyrdom, or compatriotism for anyone but the Master is imprudent and severely punishable. Another fallacy outsiders hold of the Scourge is that our power resides in the residual will of the living, that we are an advanced form of parasite, and without a host of regenerating life would simply wither away. Again we do not deny such ignorant though for our benefit, but this could not be further from the truth. We are nothing but an ever-improving form of adaptation to a land once riddled with endless struggle. We are immune to the tribulations of dissention, over-population, individuality, selfish opinion, short-sightedness, and even morality. We hear the will of the Master, and the Master brings us all that we will ever desire. It is true that we take architecture, technology, and physical prowess from assimilated cultures. This, like so many 'evil' acts of the Scourge, is done entirely out of pragmatism. The Scourge has neither the time nor the desire to generate a culture of its own. A member of the Scourge that creates without influence will hold an inherent attachment to it, a right to see it viewed and used. This leads to individuality, which leads to dissention. Creativity is a flaw of culture, but a minor obligation when dealing with simple needs like buildings and equipment. It is not your duty to question or care the origins of your resources, only in how usable they are. The Scourge is the will of the land. All manner of life kneel to our will with an ease that yields a single conclusion: That they need us, they yearn for our salvation. There is no resilience to our practices, no immunity to our commandments. We are every bit the inevitability that natural life holds: Death. Death comes with every life, and undeath comes with every death. The sooner the living recognizes this immutable fact, the easier their transition will be. This is truth that Kel'Thuzad, backbonde of the Scourge and the most powerful necromancer to ever walk this world, except for his creator and master, the Lich King himself. My loyalties have always been towards the Lich King, even though I have been with the Forsaken. But as a Shadow Priest and shadowcaster, I started to explore the far reaches of the Void. And in the middle of my ritual, a voice called out to me. A voice I found very familiar. He gave me a vision, show me the darkest truth of the universe. And from that point, I knew the God of Death was right. With the wisdom, cunning and mental powers beyond comprehension, the entity we call the the Lich King, had now found the ultimate avatar, a human Death Knight with the strenght, stamina and agility of a young and formidable warrior, Together, the master could walk this world again, freed from the demons grasp. I have been patient, I have positioned myself under the Banshee Queen, hoping she would soon realize how valiable the Lich King and his power over death is our most benefitial ally. The Lich King, knowing how threatening the Dreadlords can be against his position, has already sent out the Ebon Blae to track down and exterminate every single Dreadlord that walks this world. Soon we will rise, our forces have already grown with the Ebon Blade under his influence! This is the time for the undead race, soon all will face their inevitable end and all lifeo n Azeroth will end.22
The Whispers of Il'gynoth
So it seems that Il'gynoth is a pretty chatty tree, there is several quite interesting messages that he will whisper to people while in his area, which I think are not just random gibberish, but actually relevant to the current expansion, and some even hinting at things yet to come. Here is each of them and what I think they mean. "The King of Diamonds has been made a pawn." This one is fairly easy, I think its quite obviously referring to Magni who was a king who got turned to diamond and is now a servant of the titan spirit in Azeroth. "Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator." This is probably just a reference to the curse of flesh and the old god who caused it, N'zoth I think. "Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it." This I think is referring to Azeroth herself, and more specifically the Well of Eternity (now the Maelstrom) and the old god N'zoth residing in it. "The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you." This one I think refers to Wrathion, who even told us during mists of pandaria to not trust him if I remember correctly. "From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength." This I think is also referring to Wrathion, and how he as a black dragon draws strength from the earth, and the old gods are imprisoned under the earth, perhaps a hint to Wrathion being corrupted? "Its surface blazes light, masking shadow below." This I think is referring to the Naaru, who are beings of pure light, but can turn into creatures of the void. "Five keys to open our way. Five torches light our path." This I believe to refer to the pillars of creation, and perhaps that using them to seal the tomb of sargeras will release the old gods somehow? "The Lord of Ravens will turn the key." The part about turning the key is likely linked to the previous one about the pillars, but I am not sure who the 'lord of ravens' is, as it could mean several different individuals, the most literal would be Anzu, but I don't see how that would make any sense, there is also Medivh and Khadgar who can both turn to ravens, and then there is Odyn, who has the pet ravens Hugin and Mugin which are quite prevalent during the Stormheim questline. "At the hour of her third death, she ushers in our coming." I think that this one refers to Sylvanas, as I can't think of any other female characters that have died twice already. So will Sylvanas release the old gods? "To find him, drown yourself in the Circle of Stars." This one I have absolutely no idea of what it could be referring to. Find who? What is the Circle of Stars? So what do you guys think?30
Wish list for further expansions
This wishlist has already been posted in the general forum http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614404189 However, I wanted to share it here as well to see the opinions here, considering that different players lurk on different forums. Some may lurk exlusively on the general forum, some on the PvP forum, some on the story forum, etc. Maybe you people have some additional wishes regarding future expansions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is my wishlist for World Of Warcraft future expansion features. It doesn't have to be this or the next expansion. These are just things that I want to see as content being added to the already massive world of Azeroth. The list is prone to updates. Customization Unlock all hairstyles for all racesHair is a very important feature to me. If all races could wear all hairstyles, regardless of faction side, for instance, putting hair currently unique to humans on a blood elf, or vise versa. More beards. New hairstyles.Different body types If we truly want to be immersive, we should have different body types. This could include: A height slider A weight slider A skin colour slider/wheel Idle stances Body types I.E using zandalari model appearance instead of darkspear model Playable races VrykulI think the vrykul are among the coolest races in WoW. I could be biased because I'm norwegian, but vikings are just bloody cool. Vrykul value strength over anything, and both the Horde and the Alliance have proven their strength many times over. Obviously, with vrykul as a new playable race, the expansion would have to be vrykul-related. Vrykul would be playable by both sides, like the pandaren. Vrykul starting zone could be one of these: Somewhere in the Howling Fjord (Phased) Jandvik (Phased) A new island, kind of like Iceland or Greenland?New classes VampireVampires are bloody cool, no pun intended. When I first saw the Darkfallen San'layn in WotLK, I fell in love. They have wings, and possess dark abilities such as blood draining and turning into bats. Vampires can turn to bats as a means of transportation. All races can become vampires. Vampires use plate gear. Their talent specializations could be: KnightSpecialization focusing on tanking. This spec uses two handed weapons. It focuses on draining the blood of its enemies and allies alike, and mitigates damage by parrying, dodging, curses and mind magic. They posess a vampiric aura that turns damage into healing for the vampire. Knights can turn into feral bats that massively increases their stats for a short period. They can summon ghosts and gargoyles, and terrorize their opponents with mind magic and terrible curses, such as reflecting pain back to their opponent or making their vision hazy like they were drunk. LordSpecialization focusing on spells. Lords can use wands more efficiently than any other class, but they also use staffs, one-handers and off-hand held items. Lords drain the blood of their enemies and casts blood magic. They raise the dead and sic bats on their enemies. Lords are capable of vanishing into thin air and summon large packs of bats to survive hard encounters, they can also turn themselves into pools of blood to corrupt and feed upon blood that is being shed. I wanted a third spec that could either be melee or range DPS, but not sure how it should play so I left it out. Apparel Blizzard Store CostumesI think one way to appeal to players is to sell cosmetic gear on the Blizzard Store. Sure, some people hate to pay real money for ingame content, but I see it as a great opportunity to grant some players cool outfits without having to quit their jobs to practice and run mythics every two weekdays for the dream transmog. This could be gear like: Val'kyr armour San'layn armour Hymdal's armour Arthas' armour Kael'thas' robes Medivh's robes Warden armour Etc. Geography Updated Blood elf and Draenei zones to fit the current state of affairs. Repaired Silvermoon Barber in Silvermoon and the Exodar Raids Timewalking raids Heroic and mythic settings for "Legacy" raids36
Would the belves even want the nightborne?
There all sorts of aspirations from the player base to do with the nightborne and where or with which elven group if any their future should lie. They are going to be in need of allies for sure, after this legion conflict, no longer in isolation. lost large numbers, and just a city of magic users, and the way blizzard does things, if they are to play a part in world affairs they are going to have to pick either the horde or the alliance. To me the horde seems a more attractive option to them, with the blood elves who are in a stronger position right now than their night elf counterparts and more on their own level or par with magic as compared to the night elves who are way behind and considered a drag...as complement to the sister post on the night elves here http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614484742, I'm wondering if the blood elves would even want the nightborne? 1. Would the Blood elves even want the nightborne? 2. Would the nightborne need to join a faction to stay relevant. My Response to: Would the Blood elves even want the nightborne? Actually, no I think. At first I thought, yes ofc, obvoiusly, but let's face it, what can the nightborne bring that the blood elves don't already have? Both Silgryn and Victoire comment on how formidable the blood elf magic is - this indicates to us that offensively at least, the blood elves are either on par or near on par with the nightborne. We see one of the blood elf magister scouts able to unravel one of the chief nightborne's protective wards he very confidently states he can before showing so, pointing out how sloppy the spellwork is, "we blood elves know a thing or two about magic" The blood elves pragmatically are far better off looting the nightborne for any additional magical knowledge and secrets these elves have in their vast library to add to their arsenal rather than shoulder the burden of a people. They don't need the nightborne for magical knowledge or magical strength. They don't need the nightwell either, nor do they need the nightborne cure for addiction as Rommath stated they have forged their own path and their own solutions, their glory is their own. My feeling here is whiles the additional advancements would be nice, especially the lost knowledge, they don't need it, the BElves already have cool stuff going, they're not desperate for the magic. What strategic value do the nightborne bring? They are in the middle of night elf country and would likely also mean acquiring the broken isle night elves who've been working with Thalyssra - would they want the blood elves? Would the blood elves want night elves? and if they don't want them wouldn't this open up another warfront for the blood elves - is that something they need right now having their own issues to deal with including the high elves and the darkfallen with Quel'thalas still not recovered. I'm trying to imagine a blood elf trying to fit in nightborne society or a nightborne in blood elf surroundings and despite their love for magic they are very different night and day apart - like literally. My Response to: Would the nightborne need to join a faction to stay relevant. My answer? Yes !! Face it, it's the horde and the alliance that get involved in all the key stuff. And they can't join both as a whole nation. they'd have to join either one or split into two groups. This is how blizzard writes this game. The factions are too involved, becoming an ally with one will forfeit the other. And I don't think the nightborne can be alone. I don't think the horde and alliance would trust them to be by themselves with the nightwell. Although once they get to know Thalyssra that might change. I think one of the two sides will have to get the nightwell. And whiles blizzard could write them neutral regardless, they won't stay relevant that way, and besides it is not the best writing to do that given how they've set them up. They could make them a dalaran state - but I think players will hate this as it would yet again making humans masters of magic now robbing the night elf arcane group of it's magical pre-eminence by coming under the shadow of the kirn'tor. Let's face it, if your race is not playing a role in either the horde or alliance, you very quickly disappear, become very minor or fade into obscurity.19
Who would you be?
If you could be and live as one of the characters in the Warcraft story, who's fate do you feel the most related to? And I hope people don't chose overpowerful gods like Sargeras or something. Because of course we all wanna be powerful but it's harder to relate to those. I'm just curious how people think and react to certain characters they can relate to or are their favorites for whatever reason. So you only pick one please, you can only be one person. Mine is of course Prince Arthas, born into power and heir to the greatest nation of humans. But when the undead Scourge starts to slaughter his people, he loses control over the situation and himself. Trained by Muradin, he was already a skilled warrior. Now, with Frostmourne in hand, he was invincinble he felt. And the constant whispers, which he at times even replied to like a mad man, they gave him guidance and empowered him even more when he needed it. His new power was so much more than the Light could ever offer. Sure, I gave my soul for this power, but it freed me from all the shackles of being a mortal man. Emotions, remorse, fear and even love. He travels to his fathers throne and kills him, succeeding his father as King of Lordaeron. At the same time he unleashes the Scourge upon the unsuspecting crowds. The Scourge grew to be vast. And when he puts on the Helmet of Domination, what a rush. o merge with this god-like entity, we became as one. All he knew, all the wisdom, all memories of both of us melted together as we both had lived them. We were now the most powerful entity on Azeroth, our mental powers could reach people half across the world. The Lich King even controlled parts of the Shadowlands at the same time he was commanding his forces here. With a mind like this, doing multiple tasks at one time isn't very hard. So they sat frozen for five years, while we commanded the Scourge to build us our new kingdom. We were in a dreamlike state, where Ner'zhul was present. In the dream however, I also carried Frostmourne. We argued over my loyalty and commitment to be this powerful entity. So I took Frostmourne and pierced the boy, feeling released from his grip. And then I turned to Ner'zhul, doing the same thing, piercing him with Frostmourne and supressed Ner'zhul's influence (I believe he just supressed Ner'zhul's influence), becoming the dominant personality in the Lich King. Now he awoke, with powers unlike any he could've dreamed of. Not only was he physically skilled with unholy strenght and basicly couldn't be wounded. But he also had a mind so vast that no mortal could ever understand. He now knew and could see things no one else could comprehend. He telepathically ruled an entire army just with his thoughts, from his Frozen Throne to both Lordaeron and Kalimdor, wherever his subjects had spread. I know. he did not live forever. Arthas is probably the greatest and biggest traitor Azeroth has ever faced, first he betrayed his people, killing his father, betraying the Burning Legion and finally his own master. Arthas kill count on actual characters holds the record by far. In his time, Arthas/the Lich King, killed three kings and destroyed three kingdoms. He went from a mortal man, who sacrificed it all, even his soul for powers beyond imagining and that was also what he got. He became a god, who could've won that war and conquered all of Azeroth, making it stronger and safer, for if the Legion would ever enter, he the Lich King would instantly know. He gave his soul to the blade that was gonna save him and his people, but wielding Frostmourne came with a price few men would pay. And on the part where I can relate, it actually due to personal issues that affected me deeply in my teenage years and continue some years as a young adult. I was deep into morfin addiction that grabbed me completely, it took over my life in every aspect. I became a very destructive person, poisoning and destroying both myself and all around, including family and friends. It was like I was two persons, one who was the normal me, who wanted to do well, to do the right things and throw away the pills. But as soon as my withdrawal started kicking in, it was like I became a completely different person. I did everything In my power to aquire money and more pills, no matter the consequences, no matter who I hurt in the process, I felt no remorse for it. Sometimes I could tell myself to not do this or that, but when this other side of me, the thought's that constantly told me to do the opposite, the thought's who started making different excuses as to why I should keep on and that I wasn't the one doing anything wrong, it was all the others. Those who were against me, they had it coming once I allowed that side take full control. So that is why I feel related to Arthas and the whole Frostmourne scenario, when a force stronger than any of your other thought's competely dominates your mind and you follow it no matter what, straight into the darkness. This is mine, how about yours?45
Alliance and Horde attitudes
When I was questing through Shadowmoon Valley on an Alliance character (forgive me Horde, I swear it is for espionage only) I met with the Draenei and their leaders. Once gathered, Khadgar is able to open a portal back to Azeroth, but just briefly, so he sends over the best of the best. And in comes no other than Baros Alexton himself! And his first quote when I arrive on a planet he never been before and standing in a circle around several AU Draenei, and the first thing Alexton shouts is: "This is it, boys! Let's break some ground and take this world for the Alliance!" Chocked? I for one are not. There are plenty of Alliance supremacists scum who acts exactly like Baros Alexton. Here we are and the Draenei is ready to offer us aid and food. But they heard him quite well, we aren't there for fun. The military's goal is to take this world for the alliance, either by force or by negotioations, doesn't matter as long as the Alliance flag is hanging over every town in Draenor! So don't tell me Garrosh was unique, because there are dozens of other just like him, except they aren't the King/Warchief atm.65