Why can people kick from raid while in combat

General
So I joined a group for normal SoO. It was a mess, but at the same time 9/10th of the people were in the raid and doing their jobs even if it was a bit messy. So the leader is stupid enough to not be in the actual raid before the boss is pulled. So whilst we are 80% of the way through killing Immerseus he tells us to wipe. All of us are like LOL no way dude, if you aren't in here then tough. Only 2 people died due to stupidity.

So basically he starts mass kicking everyone. Bang, bang, bang people are dropping from group left and right.

People are screaming left and right like it's a war /yell-ing abuse and etc. from within the raid map.

The boss goes down with 20 seconds to go. A few of us get to loot the chest but I am trying to rez my friend and in the end well obviously I didn't have enough time.

Exactly how is this scenario fair? The leader was a total moron, and didn't enter the group himself, but was telling people to get into the instance and asking us to 'communicate' despite himself not even being in there.

So..

1. Why can people kick in combat? - Why is it possible to just boot everyone whilst they are in the middle of a boss fight? I understand if you want to allow people to be booted whilst in combat if they are ninja-pulling trash. But if someone is killing the boss. Then they should not be allowed to be kicked.

-- Subsequently, if someone in particular is ninja pulling and being an !@#, then when they die, obviously you can just boot them the moment they die. So there shouldn't be any complaints about "What if 'x' and 'y' scenario is happening?" You can still boot jerks and time-wasters without the entire leader throwing a spaz. Sure in the end you're all probably going to be booted for going against his wishes but still at least you get your boss kill and you can loot the gear first.

Which brings me to...

2. Why the $%^- do we only get 60 seconds until we are ejected out of the raid area if we are not raid's group anymore? At least raise the time limit to 3 minutes or something after a boss is killed so people have time to rez and then loot the boss/chest....

3. Also when we were kicked my friends and I got a boss lockout for Immerseus but then when we went back in just my friends and I, Immerseus is still alive and it's not possible for my friend who was dead to loot the chest, because he's alive again...

So what... now that we're all supposedly locked out? It says so in 'O' -> 'Raid Tab' that Immerseus is defeated. There's some bug that we can kill him and loot him again if we get booted and kill him before the 60 seconds hits us?
05/11/2014 17:45Posted by Persettä
Exactly how is this scenario fair?


Because it was his group and therefore his rules. Its not exactly fair, but raids are dictatorships not democracies.

TBH if you pulled without the raid leader there it was entirely predictable that he would pull a stunt like this.
TBH, I don't really blame him.

You should have waited for him (within reason, obviously).
There was no ready check but regardless. The other tank (not me) did a DBM pull timer and we all went on the pull. Even if the leader was a slacker and wasn't even in his own raid.

The Point Blank Period is that you SHOULD NOT be allowed to kick someone whilst in combat.
If people think that is unfair and worry that ninja pullers can be abusive, then you SHOULD NOT be allowed to kick whilst in combat with a BOSS. Bosses reset very fast if you run out of range, and/or wipe very fast.

You either risk people not getting ANY loot for which they worked hard for (and still suffered a damn lockout for that boss) or you lose 14g in repairs or whatever. The former is far more unfair. Either way, the current system is NOT fair.

Restrict people from being kicked if they are in combat with a boss, much like how Blizzard already restricts people from entering or resurrecting whilst there is a boss in combat. It gives people who are already working hard to kill the boss, the chance to kill it and get loot.

Or allow people to stay in after the boss goes down so they can get the loot they deserve.
1. You shouldn't have pulled without him.
2. It's his group, therefore his rules, as already stated.
3. Because for instance, the kick system in LFD is horrible, you get one kick per group, and you can heavily abuse that if you are a slacker/troll. Multiboxers, trolls, flamers, extremely low dps (like, when heroics are a new content, you literally can't get past a dungeon cause of them doing no damage), and similar stuff could get away with it knowing they are safe. So at least, in manually made groups, like your raid was, leader can do whatever he wants, and I am grateful on that. Tough luck you guys got kicked, but it could have been a lot worse system than that...
Had the same issue with a PUG group before with a few of my friends.

We killed paragons and got to Garrosh when a few people were leaving to presumably sell the lockout.

I got made the leader and we got replacements. I promoted the maintank leader so he could control markings etc, he was well geared and seemed experienced. As the boss was pulled we were doing well and all was good. Then in about phase 2 somewhere, 3 or so players got killed including myself, not sure how but as soon as it was next phase we all got kicked and missed out on the rest of the fight inc the loot.

Pretty harsh and quite a d*** move but hey ho....
If i put my time into organizing raid, spamming in the city/fishing off the group finder/Oqueue, generally dealing with those people and... then they even wouldnt have the damn courtesy to wait for me or god forbid summon me? And then killing the boss without me? I sure would be pissed.

It was a pleb move from him, but i cant say i dont understand him. I wouldnt do the same; id probably leave - if you cant wait, then eat the boss and choke on him. But i dont feel sorry for you, not in the slightest - you got what you deserved.
05/11/2014 17:45Posted by Persettä
So the leader is stupid enough to not be in the actual raid before the boss is pulled.

Wait ... you pulled the boss without the group leader being in the room?!?
I know the people who are only use group finder tools might think it's nothing but a title, but outside of those the group leader is pretty much all powerful.

Let me get the story right.
You give a guy all the power in the world and then you try to deny him the kill. Then he uses those powers (which you allowed him to have) and denies you the kill instead. How did that scenario not play out as expected?
So.. the raid leader tells you to go ahead and clear the trash to immersues while he is not in the instance yet.

Some impatient moron pulls the boss before he can get there.

You get kicked for for denying the raidleader the first boss due to impatience.

Sounds about right.
Well the leader has to stay in Shrine to look for people in Trade.
Of course he will be the last person to enter.
Why the hell do you pull without him?I would have done exactly the same as he did , kick you all.

And most importantly - this is not Raid Finder.The Leader can kick anyone.Anytime. Of course he can kick during combat.He can kick anytime , thats why he is the leader , its his group.This is not LFR!

05/11/2014 17:45Posted by Persettä
So the leader is stupid enough to not be in the actual raid before the boss is pulled.


Are you serious?Are you actually serious?The raid starts when the leader says it starts.The boss is pulled when the leader says so.As long as everyone is ready ofc.Thats how it works.He was probably looking for more people , of course he will be the last to enter.

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