Do people really want Vanilla servers?

General
Prev 1 2 3 4 11 Next
I think people like the idea of it more than they'd like the reality of it, it's pure nostalgia, they'd get very bored of it very fast.
26/05/2015 15:24Posted by Semina
26/05/2015 15:06Posted by Enusath
You comparing Vanilla raiding with LFR is a bit silly too, considering they're aimed at two very different types of players. Comparing Vanilla raiding to today's HC raiding would be a much more accurate comparison. One at which your point falls completely apart.


In which way exactly? From what I've heard, the level 60 Naxxramas was easily as challenging as the hardest of mythic raiding today.

Kinda irrelevant anyway as very few people ever raided in vanilla. Then again, very few people raid at the heroic or mythic level now. Raiding has always been a niche scene at best. If I got a vanilla server, running the same boring raids that are in the game today would be the last thing I'd do.


I've gotten halfway through Naxx in Vanilla, back when I played on the US servers. And you're right, it was hard, but not in the same way raids are hard today.

Killing bosses in Vanilla was pretty much a gear and numbers check, much less of a mechanics check, even though Naxxramas was an exception to that. Not only that, class rotations were stupidly simple as well, coming down to a 2-4 button rotation for many DPS classes. Some even fewer than that.

That's why I said it would get old quick. Not because it was necessarily less challenging but because both boss and class mechanics were considerably less compelling than they are now.
Yes people want it.... Read all the threads about it. Currently there is a private server with 8000+ players online daily on one single server.

Vanilla had it's problems, But it had atmosphere and passion.

It was all a much better game in total then we have today which is hardly worthy of being called anything else then a Garrison simulator.

My 10days trail soon runs out. Then i will be leaving this trash "game" it have become.

This game was great during vanilla and bc, It was what it was ment to be.

Now im signing out

- Vanilla rank 14.
26/05/2015 16:25Posted by Hengwulf
Mechanics are the same as in WotLK Naxx, which means they are really easy by today's standards. However, 40 man Naxx was very inaccessible, very demanding logistically.


#1 Not all boss mechanics were the same.
#2 Player abilities were vastly more limited in Vanilla, WotLK abilities trivialized stuff.
#3 Threat was a major thing in vanilla, from WotLK forward it hasn't been. Trivilizing more stuff.
#4 Tuning in WotLK Naxx was a joke. It wasn't in vanilla.

All in all, drawing ANY conclusion about Naxx 40 from Naxx 10/25 will result in errors. It is very comparable to drawing conclusions about Mythic BRF from running only LFR.
26/05/2015 15:06Posted by Enusath
You comparing Vanilla raiding with LFR is a bit silly too, considering they're aimed at two very different types of players. Comparing Vanilla raiding to today's HC raiding would be a much more accurate comparison. One at which your point falls completely apart.


In which way exactly? From what I've heard, the level 60 Naxxramas was easily as challenging as the hardest of mythic raiding today.

.


Only because it wasnt so accessible back then and players even in top guilds were much worse than players today.
Naxx wasn't as hard as the harder encounters in Mythic today, no. Was it as easy as Heroic is though, nah.
26/05/2015 10:27Posted by Aphrodìté
Honestly, i see people asking for vanilla servers, with these recent outrages, i honestly am not sure if they really would enjoy playing these servers.

First of all: these servers would never add no new content. these would be stuck on a certain patch and would get dull as quickly as the current endgame has.

Secondly, people have been outraged by the confirmation of removal of flying in WoD. honestly, there was no flying at all in vanilla servers. Guess you didn't think this stuff trough, now did ya.

Some people wouldn't enjoy this as much, they prefer playing their main classes (Deathknights/monks) which weren't around back then, or the feel of the class may have completely changed since vanilla.


It never occured to you that perhaps different people like different things?

First of all, because things take longer on Vanilla servers, no you won't run out of things to do as quickly as in Cataclysm II, the more because the appeal of those servers for many is The Game, not End of Game. By the time you'll have used up all permutations of Classes, Professions, Factions and (if you go hardcore) Races and Brackets (twinking), you'll be a loooong way ahead.

Note that the most succesful private servers (using code Blizzard itself doesn't no longer have, or something) seem to be all PvP Servers, which creates its own content.

Secondly, its a different World. Also, the outrage ppl feel is partially because of things e.g. Rossi explained

http://blizzardwatch.com/2015/05/25/flying-world-warcraft/

(in short, Flying fits the current game, and has become an impetus for a lot of gameplay, like Mount collecting) and it being a display of the all-too typical 'we know what you find fun, not you' behaviour sinc esp. Warlords of Deathwing.

Thirdly, see the first point. If you literally only like playing Nelf mages or whatever, then perhaps such a server isn't for you. The sheer and utter horror of not all 60-odd million people that play(ed) WoW liking the exact same things.

Last but not least, Blizzard could once again use ideas of other companies, and allow for the running of Buccaneer/Privateer Servers, ie officially allowed private servers. That way they won't have to risk money on them, and they don't lose their grip on players as much (the logic being that as long as they play some version of WoW, they don't completely drift away from the market)

http://massivelyop.com/2015/04/29/everquest-emulator-group-gets-a-written-agreement-with-daybreak/
26/05/2015 16:37Posted by Enusath
That's why I said it would get old quick. Not because it was necessarily less challenging but because both boss and class mechanics were considerably less compelling than they are now.


I also don't think that would make a whole lot of difference to most of the people who want vanilla servers. Not everyone raids. In fact, most people don't. Only 3% of the entire player base ever cleared Naxx 60 which kind of indicates that most people didn't raid.

26/05/2015 16:37Posted by Enusath
26/05/2015 15:24Posted by Semina
...

In which way exactly? From what I've heard, the level 60 Naxxramas was easily as challenging as the hardest of mythic raiding today.

Kinda irrelevant anyway as very few people ever raided in vanilla. Then again, very few people raid at the heroic or mythic level now. Raiding has always been a niche scene at best. If I got a vanilla server, running the same boring raids that are in the game today would be the last thing I'd do.


I've gotten halfway through Naxx in Vanilla, back when I played on the US servers. And you're right, it was hard, but not in the same way raids are hard today.

Killing bosses in Vanilla was pretty much a gear and numbers check, much less of a mechanics check, even though Naxxramas was an exception to that. Not only that, class rotations were stupidly simple as well, coming down to a 2-4 button rotation for many DPS classes. Some even fewer than that.

That's why I said it would get old quick. Not because it was necessarily less challenging but because both boss and class mechanics were considerably less compelling than they are now.


Good points, but it's still worth mentioning that there are private servers that have been running for years and people still play on them. The argument that "people would get bored because of X reason" is a very old one and I think generally boils down to "I don't have any interest in a vanilla server, so I've decided no one else does either".

The main reason I can see in favour of a vanilla server is that it would bring a lot of people back to the game who have quit for one reason or another. And right now, what with the 3 million subscriber drop and decision to remove flying, that's what Blizzard needs more than anything.
May i ask why you care that people want to play on vanilla servers? Why do so many care to say no to vanilla servers? Just dont play on them. It's that easy...

Why cant the thousands of players wanting retail vanilla servers get it? I know Blizzard blame on " content moving forward" blabla, But when that content is complete !@#$ and not worthy of seing the light, Then that reason is void....

But what i really dont understand is the players refusing others the joy of vanilla servers.... I would love to play vanilla wow on retail and pay my monthly fee for it... But no, Blizzard rather want to lose those costumers and focus on content that is killing the game.

What i see time and time again is those who pretend they played back in vanilla talk about nostalgia.... Please stop making yourself look like idiots.

As im posting this we are 7313 people online on a vanilla server.... Think about the potential....
It's stupid to say that "people don't want Vanilla". Some people evidently do.
Some of the more recent private servers have gotten insanely high populations, so those people must want Vanilla servers.
I'd prefer a Wotlk server over a Vanilla server any day.
Vasty less difficult group content? Hmm, not really. Dungeon trash were significantly harder, bosses were easier mechanicswise but sometimes a bit unforgivingly tuned. Raids were a bit all over the map, but Mythic/"pre-WoD heroic" is the only difficulty I'd say is in general harder than every raid in vanilla, and even then there are certainly bossfights in vanilla that were harder than some modern Mythic fights.
WoD has a much wider range of group content. I'm from the world of Mythic raiding and challenge modes, so for me the vanilla dungeons and raids were vastly easier.

If you play at a lower difficulty your milage may vary, but you also haven't experienced the hardest that is available, so it is a moot point.

26/05/2015 14:27Posted by Jeniwyn
I don't think it is that easy. How do you remove things like "threat isn't an issue"? If you only remove say the group finder then you are left with faceroll dungeons that you will clear in 10-15 mins with no need to say anything only difference is that you have to spend a lot of time forming your group and travel to get to the dungeon.
That particular example is actually very easy. All you have to do is to nerf the threat generation from the tank stances and threat will come back as a mechanic. Threat has never been removed - it's still here and it still works just the same as it did in 2004.

But actually, I don't want to go back on such things. There may be a decent argument in some cases, but I think those sorts of changes should be game-wide. What I want is to recreate the social experience that results in emergent gameplay, as I explained earlier.

I'm going to link this to you again:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13987930597

Because it explains exactly how to get rid of faceroll dungeons. The thing about these really easy dungeons and the open world content is that it's just undertuned. It has all the mechanics it needs to be challenging - indeed in every single case it has more mechanics than the equivalent mobs did in vanilla, yet it's a lot easier, because it's undertuned.

Remember when 6.0 came out and the squish had gone wrong so that everything had 2x as much HP and damage as it was supposed to? Just bring that back and remove LFR/LFD, and it's Mission Accomplished.
Yes, and you guess why nobody says yes here? Because old wow lovers are not losing times here and they are actually having fun on private servers. Ofc you wont get yeses here because all those few people here are WOD lovers... its like asking person that hate computers why doesnt they read computer forums.

Im here just in hope that blizz gets old or bc servers back, or maybe lk. Wod is bad and there is no discussion. How ever you brag it 90% of forum threads are against WOD so there you go, disslike or not it wont change anything :P..
26/05/2015 19:51Posted by Ishayu
WoD has a much wider range of group content. I'm from the world of Mythic raiding and challenge modes, so for me the vanilla dungeons and raids were vastly easier.

If you play at a lower difficulty your milage may vary, but you also haven't experienced the hardest that is available, so it is a moot point.


I can't say based on the Mythic bosses that I did that they are actually harder then Vanilla C'thun and certain Naxx 40 bosses. I was kinda slacking this expansion, it's true, so I'm not the best authority on WoD raids, but I can safely compare last expansion with higher accuracy (and difficulty really didn't change significantly between the two) that SoO didn't have more then 3 really hard bosses on former heroic (Siegecrafter because many things happened in quick succession or in the same time, Paragons because it lasted very long and thus there was high room for error and a lot of different mechanics and Garrosh, which at least in 10 men had very tight hps and dps requirements). Besides those, Malkorok was definitely easier then for example Heigan the Unclean (having comparable mechanics) given the skillset in MoP with the amount of instant casts and raid aoe heals and all, bosses like Galakras or Amalgam of Corruption or Spoils of Pandaria were a joke, while Sha, Thok, Nazgrim were nothing special - again, considering the skillsets we had available for them. Also, lower raid sizes make things much easier to coordinate.

Even this expansion, at least from the bosses I killed, I can't really say any of them has anything that is actually hard to do. I imagine Blast Furnace, Maidens and Blackhand mythic are really hard and complex though.

Thing is Vanilla raids had to have a more steep progression in difficulty in them, since there were no lower difficulties to smooth up the curve.
Players will run to addons websites to make vanila servers easier, because that is what players did back then. (Where is my quest location?, Boss Identifier for Raids/Dungeons, Atlas for Instances, Loot Drop Database Addons and more and more). these addons were required for Vanila Contents even Guilds wont invited you if you had no sort of kind addons they required. - I have used them myself
26/05/2015 17:24Posted by Jeniwyn
26/05/2015 16:25Posted by Hengwulf
Mechanics are the same as in WotLK Naxx, which means they are really easy by today's standards. However, 40 man Naxx was very inaccessible, very demanding logistically.


#1 Not all boss mechanics were the same.
#2 Player abilities were vastly more limited in Vanilla, WotLK abilities trivialized stuff.
#3 Threat was a major thing in vanilla, from WotLK forward it hasn't been. Trivilizing more stuff.
#4 Tuning in WotLK Naxx was a joke. It wasn't in vanilla.

All in all, drawing ANY conclusion about Naxx 40 from Naxx 10/25 will result in errors. It is very comparable to drawing conclusions about Mythic BRF from running only LFR.

LFR and mythic have vastly different abilities, so analogy is really flawed.

This is exactly the kind of stuff that maks people want to go vanilla - people blowing some vanilla features to legendary proportions. Naxx was much less accessible than even mythic these days, but it wasn't nowhere near as hard, in fact the mechanics are laughable now. Day long AVs were certainly epic, but also incredibly frustrating and pretty boring. Southshore vs Tarren Mill was certainly fun, but got old rather fast after couple resses.
Naxx 10/25 is also incomparable to Naxx 40. Totally incomparable. I don't know what to say to convince you of this. The content isn't here anymore. Lvl 60 chars with their very, very limited abilities aren't here anymore. The closest we have are the private illegitimate servers where the only one I know of that has any sort of Naxx Blizzlike action going has a total of 1 guild able to kill all of Naxx. Why isn't this server full of guild clearing this "easy" content?

There was a reason guilds farmed for hours for Flask of the Titans. There was a reason you went and got all world buffs. Etc etc.

If you want to believe that it was as easy as heroic. Content that thousands of guild dance through on week one then feel free. I'm telling you that you are wrong about this, but I honestly don't know what I can do to demonstrate this to you.
I had more fun on a vanilla private server in two weeks, than i did whole WoD. Pvp, Rp, Pve, Lore you name it and im only lvl 30 by now.
26/05/2015 22:26Posted by Hengwulf
26/05/2015 17:24Posted by Jeniwyn
...

#1 Not all boss mechanics were the same.
#2 Player abilities were vastly more limited in Vanilla, WotLK abilities trivialized stuff.
#3 Threat was a major thing in vanilla, from WotLK forward it hasn't been. Trivilizing more stuff.
#4 Tuning in WotLK Naxx was a joke. It wasn't in vanilla.

All in all, drawing ANY conclusion about Naxx 40 from Naxx 10/25 will result in errors. It is very comparable to drawing conclusions about Mythic BRF from running only LFR.

LFR and mythic have vastly different abilities, so analogy is really flawed.

This is exactly the kind of stuff that maks people want to go vanilla - people blowing some vanilla features to legendary proportions. Naxx was much less accessible than even mythic these days, but it wasn't nowhere near as hard, in fact the mechanics are laughable now. Day long AVs were certainly epic, but also incredibly frustrating and pretty boring. Southshore vs Tarren Mill was certainly fun, but got old rather fast after couple resses.


Even allowing for Naxx's lack of accessibility, how do you account for the fact that only 3% of the player base cleared it in vanilla? 3% seems a tiny amount for a raid that isn't "nowhere near as hard as mythic" and which "has mechanics that are laughable" today.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum