is this not p2w?

General
21/06/2015 17:41Posted by Spam
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skill or price?


I want to be one of the best druids in WoW. How much gold or euro does that cost?
I want to win over all in both pvp and pve.
I am a casual so i dont have much skill but i want to buy me some.
So. How many euro to be the best druid pvp without any effort?


Last time i checked it was about 824 euros for rank 1 in 3v3. full mythic gear +mounts etc goes for half of that.
...

I want to be one of the best druids in WoW. How much gold or euro does that cost?
I want to win over all in both pvp and pve.
I am a casual so i dont have much skill but i want to buy me some.
So. How many euro to be the best druid pvp without any effort?


Last time i checked it was about 824 euros for rank 1 in 3v3. full mythic gear +mounts etc goes for half of that.


Perfect. Do i have to pay more if i want to buy skill in another class?
21/06/2015 12:53Posted by Alberik
If horrible gear = win to you, then yes.

It's not terrible Gear for a Newly 100 person Maby for the People who are alrdy decked out in Heroic/mythic gear it is..

21/06/2015 13:38Posted by Dottie
Silly question but if you don't raid what is the point of high iLevel gear?


Doing More damage is always fun, Character Progression Just because you want to get stronger in order to push higher numbers in LFD or LFR (Yup i actully care about my performence even in such content)

If i'm Low on the dmg meter i'd feel bad, so I'll take any gear i can :D

21/06/2015 12:50Posted by Eggs
Even if you did that, you'd still be considerably behind everyone else in gear. Basically wasting your money.

675 is still better than Having The gear you have as Newly dinged

it is pay to get gear... if that means you automatically win something... its pay to win...

..


I think people see it like this, Getting any sort of gear = winning, So when people Get Gear with gold or IRL money it's Pay-to-win Or Pay-to-progress?

21/06/2015 12:54Posted by Sebbro
how is this p2w, what have you won


Better Gear than what you had before you bought it,
I think people see it like this, Getting any sort of gear = winning, So when people Get Gear with gold or IRL money it's Pay-to-win Or Pay-to-progress?


I think people don't know what they're talking about then, tell people to go play a korean MMORPG if they wanna see pay 2 win, weapons that are far better than what's available without paying money and it can be yours for the low low price of $5.99, that's pay 2 win
21/06/2015 21:01Posted by Reallegit
I think people see it like this, Getting any sort of gear = winning, So when people Get Gear with gold or IRL money it's Pay-to-win Or Pay-to-progress?


I think people don't know what they're talking about then, tell people to go play a korean MMORPG if they wanna see pay 2 win, weapons that are far better than what's available without paying money and it can be yours for the low low price of $5.99, that's pay 2 win


Which Game is this ? Because I've tried plenty but never found anything where you could actully Buy Gear from the ingame shop
21/06/2015 14:33Posted by Reallegit
P2W is paying for stuff not everyone can get

Pay to win usually just means paying to get past an 'obstacle', of some sort. Skipping ahead of the game's content, where you normally would have to spend several hours/days/weeks or acquire a certain 'skill', to bypass.

One could argue that this has essentially been in the game ever since Blizzard decided to remove the 'Binds-When-Picked-Up' tag from several TCG items; effectively allowing players to buy the items with real money, to later sell them in-game for gold, which they could then use to improve their character, one way or the other.

Over the years, gold has become easier to acquire with the use of real money, on several fronts.
Third party websites, who make it easier for people to locate and buy TCG items directly, from safe suppliers. While this may not entirely be Blizzard's doing, it's no secret that this has effectively improved peoples' options for buying gold with real money.
While you may not like to hear it, the option to buy a WoW-token and sell it for gold, does add fuel to the fire. It opens yet another option for people to obtain in-game goodies, with the use of real money.

21/06/2015 14:14Posted by Esubane
Oh boy, here we go again :D

And again bringing this horrifically overpriced and crappy 6.1 apexis crystal gear. Geez, do you people even know what an AUCTION HOUSE is?

If you knew that, you would also know that there are 685/700 ilvl pieces posted RIGHT NOW for 8-25k gold buyouts. 685s from Mythic Highamul, 685s from Heroic BF and 700s from Mythic BF.

Do you know what will happen to this 20K gold gear in patch 6.2? NOBODY WILL BUY IT, just like 6.1 when it costs frigging 54,000 apexis crystals. If you are that hell bent on getting 675 ilvl just go to Tanaan Jungle with dwarven bunker built, you'll get quite a few free 675 tokens in not that long time.

You just brought forth a better argument to support the OP's message. I wonder whether you realise that or not...?

Anyway...

While gold may not buy you everything, it is still the main currency in the game, and unlike many other currencies, it never becomes obsolete.
Fact is, it has become easier for people to acquire gold for real money. Whether that justifies the statement 'pay to win', is open to interpretation.
Perhaps to you, winning in WoW means hanging out with your friends and guild mates; which may not be something you can just buy with a sack of coins.

Personally, I find it saddening to see Blizzard expanding on the in-game shop, as I believe it stultifies the reason for doing the content in the game. As you spend an extended amount of time acquiring stuff in the game, without success, it just becomes tempting to buy the stuff; whether it's the last mount/pet you need for the achievement, or you name it.
why the down vote's on op? every item that can be traded from a player to another, or these new 20k items, are being sold with gold. so a new player can, if they open their wallets, now easily leap up the ilv stairs and play with the " big boys ".

that is pay to win / progress / win the 100 ilv yard race faster. there is really no way around it. play real money, get in game gold, buy some of the best gear on AH or boosts.

not like this is anything new. but i wonder what the next step is.
Why would you pay gold for 675 items when you can get 695 from apexis? You'll win nothing with 675 gear so... No, it's not pay to win.
More like RipOffToNotActuallyWin.

Also: The Mythic Gear from the BMAH will be removed because of the Token. Blizzard is certainly taking steps against this pay-to-win aspect.

Obviously you can buy lots of Tokens and buy CM Gold runs, Arena Rating, Mythic Mount runs and whatnot. But it's all very inefficient and it's really not something you can eliminate. People bought services with Gold everywhere and even before the Token was even known. Just check out the "Boosting Arena cap for 350g/win" spammers on /2.

Also by definition pay-to-win means you get some advantage someone else cannot get without spending real money and this is simply not true.
Pay to win usually just means paying to get past an 'obstacle', of some sort. Skipping ahead of the game's content, where you normally would have to spend several hours/days/weeks or acquire a certain 'skill', to bypass


Completely agree. We can all put our own spin on it but I think anyone would be hard pressed to disagree with this. Although its the definition of "win" that's up for debate.

Do I win if I have enough cash to buy a boost through the latest mythic content but have to wait until others are in a position to boost?

Do I win buy buying the latest BoE's knowing that others will already have better gear/similar gear through no cash expenditure?

What do I actually win if I choose to spend real cash in WoW?
21/06/2015 13:38Posted by Dottie
Silly question but if you don't raid what is the point of high iLevel gear?


I don't think there is, it's why I don't ever waste my gold on gear for stat value, I think the only piece of high level gear I have are my gloves which were practically given to me as the person who listed them missed a naught off....

don't you just hate it when that happens <wink>
Well i guess pretty much all MMORPGs are p2w with their cash shops.
The gear's ilvl 675 so it's better than anything the majority of the player base will have at this stage (save for the legendary ring). The only people in better gear will be the heroic and mythic raiders who comprise only a minority of the player base. For most people, the gear is a significant upgrade.

As to whether that qualifies it as p2w, decide for yourself.
Win WHAT?

Beating the raid 'content'? LFR doesn't require you to have that gear.
Beating the world content? Doen't take that gear to beat it.
Beating anyone in pvp? Good luck with that...
Beating squirrels in front of stormwind? Ok, valid point. No... wait...

Really, with the "who cares?" state the 'content' in wod is in... who really gives a rats "§$"§% about gear that'll be undesireable within a week or two? It's a boost for alts to skip the few months of garrison camping once all those hunters reroll to rogue and the old rogues quit the game out of FOTM-Frustration. ^^
21/06/2015 13:25Posted by Sebbro
You can buy legend rank in HS, grandmaster in sc2, gladiator in wow etc etc too for real money, what's the issue?


It's not a huge problem in PvE but in PvP environments it's taking away something from someone else down the ladder. Doubt anyone falling one spot short of gladiator is too pleased with people who got boosted to safe gladiator rank by getting his account piloted by a rank 1 player.
21/06/2015 12:50Posted by Eggs
Even if you did that, you'd still be considerably behind everyone else in gear. Basically wasting your money.


Exactly this....

If the gear was a higher item level than the NEW gear then i would say P2W..... The fact that the old raid drops higher gear means this isn't pay to win.

It is however "pay to slightly speed up the speed your alts can get into higher level content" or "P2SSutSYAcgiHLC" for short!
For me it does not, for the simple reason unlike most games these days both sides of the player base can acquire them. Where all too frequently in many games today it seems that the only way to get the best stats and gear is to sink money into the game.

One glaring example being STO where you can only compete in PVP or indeed do some of the end game content, is to buy particular ships, often many of them lock boxed which involves a huge and uncertain cash investment.

Here at least such things are open to all players and it is inclusive.

It has always baffled me in such games, where addiction is rife, and where I have seen in my lifetime parents leave their children to starve so they can play, that so much focus is put on time spent in such an unhealthy and potentially negative way.

I know people complain that it's not hard enough, but really as a recreational hobby it should neither be too hard, too challenging, or need more than a prescribed healthy amount of time per week to achieve people goals on a universal scale.

In education today it is widely believed that anything more than an hour a day's technology time has the potential to negatively impact on a child's positive outcomes,

Even Blizzard in it's hint's tries with "bring your friends to Azeroth but go outside with them too"

However there still persists this dogged assumption that time spent in game is only positive, when society has shown us it's anything but. I think a large reason for this is people think that it matters what you do in this game to others, when really the people who judge people on their progress in this game is a minority.

Whatever we achieve here is actually empty development, many of the skills needed do not lead to other better real world or work achievements, the only positive I can think developmentally is that it increases cognitive and physical stimulation more than say watching the TV.

This is acceptable however because it's premise is a recreational time waster, children and adults need "some" time to play in order to thrive.

Rather than worrying about the P2W argument, it might be worth thinking why do I feel there should be something ground breaking to achieve here. And in the event I do am I largely unchallenged and unfulfilled in my life. Why does it matter so much what I have achieved in a game, just because other people are achieving it too. What makes it so special in the first place?
Actually, it might take more than 3 tokens if you don't hurry: this will make people buy more tokens and part of the 'gold for my sub' community may spend said gold on the gear as well. Make sure to go into tinfoil mode on how blizz manipulates the market and how tokens are dropping too fast when it happens, because no market would act like that if supply increased while demand is dropping.

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