Legion Pet Battle Tuning

Pet Battles
We’re getting close to deploying some changes to pet battles that we’ll test in the Legion Alpha. We wanted to outline some of them here for you, so that you have a thread in which you can talk about this with us. As always, these are changes we’re testing, subject to further change, not final, etc.

Undead racial
  • During its invulnerability round, the active Undead pet will now do -25% damage.
  • Developer note: The Undead racial ability has been one of the most powerful, and this change should help bring it in line with the others.

    Frog Kiss + Sleeping Gas
  • Now has a 1-round cooldown.
  • Dev note: The ability to chain stun opponents (until resilience kicks in) simply feels bad. Rather than a blanket change to resilience, we’re trying a surgical change to one of the more aggravating aspects.

    Thunderbolt, Avalanche, Grave Destruction, Carpnado, Arcane Storm, and Psionic Strom
  • Base Damage reduced by approximately 15%
  • Thunderbolt
  • Will now have a 5-Round cooldown, to match the other abilities with similar damage and effect.
  • Cleave
  • Added 1-round cooldown
  • Dev note: AoE abilities are very powerful in the current battle pet metagame, especially “meteor”-type abilities, which are quite effective against both groups of enemies and single targets. This should bring them closer to their intended power level.

    Graves
  • Clobber and Bonestorm slots swapped
  • Dev note: Graves has a bit too easy of a time damaging the entire enemy team. Though we see other setups with Graves, it’s been too easy to AoE, and a bit too powerful among AoE pets. We are wary of opening up additional new Graves combos with this change, and we’ll be testing this closely and reading all of your feedback.

  • Graves’ base stats changed: At level 25, Graves’ Speed will now be 244 (was 211), Power will now be 297 (was 314), and Health will now be 1587 (was 1668).
  • Dev note: Graves’ base stats, along with the Undead racial (which favors slow pets), made him an unfortunate opponent to play against. Combined with high AoE and Consume Corpse, he had very few downsides. This change should help bring his output in-line with other, similar pets.

    Overall, this constitutes a triple nerf to Graves. However, depending on your ability choices, you may consider the Clobber/Bonestorm slot swap an improvement. Please feel free to leave your feedback in this thread, and we’ll be here reading (and responding where necessary).

    Thank you very much!
    Wow, I really didn't expect this degree of tuning being done to pet battles. It's a shame that we won't see the changes take effect until Legion comes out but this is still awesome news. I really hope that these nerfs, especially the Graves one, succeed in bringing some variety back to PvP. I do hope that Graves can keep doing what it does, just not in a way that completely distorts the meta around it.
    These dev notes sound so amusing.
    Don't get me wrong – of course, it may be so because they seem obvious now, but I don't mean anything bad: just all that time these opinions have been seen with curses and other expressive features and here we can read them in a way more formal way.

    @Vakeetah started on WPets (now quoted on US) and I hope I could quote that. :P

    • Undead racial – an interesting change, but like Vakeetah noticed, it would be analysed deeper:
    • Vakeetah:
      Still need to evaluate the impact of the Undead racial. It's not a bad course of action, but I'm concerned about it still benefitting slow and powerful Undeads, over providing some benefit to Speed.
    • Moves with random stuns – to me, it depends. Let's say it – these mentioned abilities DO have repeatability in their core, as it's indicated by their first part about the damage. So I would rather accept solutions of Vakeetah and Zepp (US) that have pointed out what's going on:
      Vakeetah:
      I think they may be overdoing it with the cooldown on Sleeping Gas and Frog Kiss. Chain stuns are terrible for the game (...) but the 1 round cooldown on abilities that deal very low damage and must be spammed to become even decent fillers is a terrible change.

      I think they should just add extra logic to CC effects so that they don't refresh themselves, or alternatively, spawn Resilience straight away, but without removing the present effects, just preventing application of new ones.
      Zepp (US):
      Frog Kiss / Sleeping Gas (not Screeching Gears?) - This was the wrong fix. Resilience should proc automatically when the stun hits, not when the stun breaks. The problem wasn't the OP spam damage, it was the lack of a proc.
      Screeching Gears is another story, as it doesn't have that repeatability factor and the cooldown would more fit to it.
      But the resilience fix alone would be just enough.
      And think that back in the time we didn't have resilience at all! That was horrible.
    • Split AoE nerf – yes, but not exactly. The original damage split between three pets is just fine, when compared to cooldowns. I'd rather apply a fraction after a pet dies (like: 75% of the base when two pets are alive, so MPD's Thunderbolt's output would be 222 instead of 296), but I guess that there would be a problem with the wording.
    • CD of Thunderbolt – comparing to Carpnado, I'm not sure what to add here. And psst, Avalanche has entirely the same mechanic!
    • Cleave – I don't want to quotechain again, but Vakeetah and Jerebear (US) prefer a damage nerf over a cooldown and I do agree with them – dead rounds are hard to deal with!
    • Graves' slots – this is probably entirely the testers' thing. But I'm afraid that Clobber + Consume Corpse would be another laugh in the face, at least for several rounds.
    • Graves' breed – a good direction.


    Other things:
    • I (and probably not only I) would really like to see a note like this:
      If the only pet corpse is a result of Haunt, using Consume Corpse prevents it from being resurrected.
    • Currently Gravity can disable a critter.
    • Dragonkin racial should've procced only once per pet (though it, unlike now, might be affected by speed if undead speed thing can't be fixed!) unless an opponent heals themselves back.
    • Magic racial back to 30%.
    • Someone has mentioned that all multiple damage abilities should've worked like Flurry. I'd say: only these basing on the speed promotion like Flank, Quills, etc. Not sure about a bit different Pounce/Alpha Strike mechanic (would make Teroclaw Hatchling a powerdome :P).
    • About Blossoming Ancient: Please swap Stun Seed and Ironbark. Not sure about Broot, but it seems even worse!
    • Not exactly a tuning, but please give us a nice critter with 289 AP and a spammable aquatic attack. ;3


    Thank you. :)
    That is a HORRID nerf to Frog Kiss / Sleeping Gas... would make them incredibly pointless to pick if the damage stacking isn't adjusted accordingly to accommodate the round loss between stacks...

    I can't understand why you just don't fix the damn resilience to take immediate effect after being CC'd like every other ability...
    This is a PERFECT and LONG awaited and DESERVED NERV to frog kiss and sleeping gas.

    Noone has taken these abilities EVER beause of the dps they do but because of the CHAIN STUN ability.
    So HUGE thx to the devs for listening to the players.
    I would really like to see a note like this:
    If the only pet corpse is a result of Haunt, using Consume Corpse prevents it from being resurrected.[/li]
    this makes no sense at all to be nerved cause this is an ok strategy imho

    10/02/2016 16:17Posted by Remte
    Dragonkin racial should've procced only once per pet (though it, unlike now, might be affected by speed if undead speed thing can't be fixed!) unless an opponent heals themselves back.
    I dont see at ALL why this needs to be changed?
    First off, thanks to Remte for saving me the trouble of relaying my random ramblings over on Warcraftpets :p

    Overall not surprised that there are so many others agreeing that a cooldown on Frog Kiss/Sleeping Gas isn't the solution (not to mention Screeching Gears - used or not, it also has the same chain-stun potential).

    Addressing chain-CC directly (by category logic preventing CC refreshing, or granting Resilience on CC application instead of expiration) is the only way to ensure that chain-CC disappears - now, and forever.

    Cooldowns, are NOT a solution, merely a lazy shortcut to avoid the problem - that kills those abilities, and their users, in the process. If anything, we need a wider array of options, not narrower.

    On that same line, the cooldown on Cleave doesn't help much. Yes, it's spammable AoE, and smart-AoE at that (both of which are very unhealthy for the game) but the problem is that it deals way too much damage - beating specialized AoE and single-target damage. Since Weebomination is the only Cleave user, that also results in a very harsh cooldown-lock. Rather much get damage decrease, and keep it without cooldown. Over at Warcraftpets I suggested a base power of 18 (down from the current 24) leaving Cleave as a weak filler damage ability that will whittle away at your backline but not kill them, while also making Diseased Bite competitive.

    Bottom line? Don't DELAY problems with a cooldown, FIX them instead.

    Now, the least I can do is building upon some of Remte's very own feedback :p
    • If the only pet corpse is a result of Haunt, using Consume Corpse prevents it from being resurrected.

    I'd like to agree on principle... not just on that, but on consuming corpses-that-are-not-corpses in general, particularly because this gets past the restriction on Consume Corpse that restricts corpses to a single use...

    However, I think the cooldown and the overall healing amoung of Consume Corpse isn't really that troublesome. 50% Health seems like a lot, but compared to other healing abilities, it really isn't. The problem is more related to Undeads (as usual) than anything.

    I believe that your suggested measure just adds some obscure complexity, though! I'd be more inclined to instead disallow eating Haunted corpses completely BUT lifting the restriction of only one corpse at a time (which feels unnecessary). Check Wish, same heal, same cooldown, no restriction other than a delay - that in turn also adds versatility.
    • Currently Gravity can disable a critter.

    Didn't know that! Needs to be fixed - but Gravity also needs to be reworked into something more useful. I think it's weird that the first hit is the slam (dealing damage), and the second hit is the lift (merely rooting). I'd change it to work the other way around - first lift, then slam. It's logical!
    Possibly also rework the effects a bit (I have some ideas for it but don't want to spam more!)
    • Dragonkin racial should've procced only once per pet (though it, unlike now, might be affected by speed if undead speed thing can't be fixed!) unless an opponent heals themselves back.

    I'm fine with them being executers but I honestly dislike how the buff is working right now (every other round, and possibly carrying over from one pet to another). I think it'd be an option to remove Dragonkin passive as a buff completely, and instead let them deal extra damage against wounded pets at all times (but probably not as much as 50% extra damage).
    ex: "Dragonkin pets deal X% extra damage when attacking pets below half health."
    • Magic racial back to 30%.

    I'd prefer to instead remain at 35%, but over the course of the round - not just per attack. It's not huge (considering regular damage intake), but main difference would be resisting howlbombs, which is also good to improve the strategies of Boss pets.

    And apparently the forums subtly hint me to stop typing already... character limit. So I'll get back to the remaining points at a later time!
    Overall i like the changes except for the frog kiss , which will make the ability useless .

    Also like Remte said attacks that attack multiple times should do that even when a decoy is up . This is to make decoy/buble counter-able .

    What i can add is this :

    Something has to be done about blocks
    Some absorb 200+ damage . These simply last too long (3 rounds - 4 if the enemy pet is faster ) . Considering most pets do about 290 ish damage on basic attacks it`s too much .

    Calculation of damage on a block feels wrong . Right now the system first removes damage from an attack and than applies any further bonuses only if the attack managed to brake the block (such as haul /racial benefits ets . For instance your atack might be doing 150 damage buffed to a pet , but if it shields itself with a 90 point shield , it blocks the entire attack or you do something like 10-15 damage .

    Also mechanical pets are almost as bad as undead

    The problem i see is not that they have too much up time (large health pools , solid defenses and strong racials ) . Its the fact that they are the once that have almost all cleave abilities .
    On the other side we barley see any critters and humanoids at all . I think a nice fix to all these families would be just to move most if not all aoe abilities to critters/humanoids . It would make critters/humanoids stronger and nerf mech/undead .

    Overall putting cleave abilities on pets that can survive a lot of damage is what makes cleave too strong .

    Also there are abilities that are technically being put on the ground rather than the enemy team , yet you can dodge them or block them with decoy , such as Spore Shrooms .
    Thank you, Aerythlea, for giving us this post, and thanks to the devs for noticing.

    Looking at the discussion here and in the US, I agree with the general opinion that:

    - Nerfs to Graves are due
    - Nerfs to split-AoE/Cleave/'Meteor' are due
    - One round CDs on Frog Kiss/Sleeping Gas are not appropriate
    - One round CD on Cleave is not the right change
    .

    1. Undead Racial

    I think the Undead racial needs a bigger nerf. A 25% reduction in the Undead round reduces the effective value of the racial, for most Undead, from 2 rounds to 1.75 rounds, still leaving it far more powerful than the second-place Mech racial.

    I will further add that the least of the racials, Critters, could use a buff. An added miss chance against Critters (because they're small!) is one nice idea I've seen.

    .

    2. Frog Kiss+Sleeping Gas

    The chance for two stuns in a row is 1 in 16. I have never been chain stunned except once or twice at Mirecroak. So I have never seen the problem.

    Further, both of these are ramp-up abilities, so adding a CD simply kills them for regular use.

    If anything needs to be done, my preference would be (in order)

    1. Make CC-immunity proc on the first round
    2. Reduce the chance for the stun to proc
    3. Remove the ramp-up, increase the base damage to compensate.

    .

    3a. Nerf to damage of Thunderbolt, Avalanche, Grave Destruction, Carpnado, Arcane Storm, and Psionic Storm.

    I haven't done the math, but -15% sounds about right

    I would also like to see a change in the way the damage is split or applied across the opposing team. Having helpless backline pets who can't defend themselves take full damage just feels bad. Quake, where the frontline pet takes more damage than the backline, is an example of cleave done better.

    3b. Thunderbolt to become 5-round CD

    I don't have strong feelings on this.

    3c. Cleave to get a CD

    Weeb is the only tameable pet in the game with Cleave. This will effectively remove the Weeb from PvP play. I don't want to see pets removed; I want to see more pets viable. I'd prefer a different nerf. Some have been suggested already in the US.

    .

    4a. Graves slots swapped.

    I don't see this as a nerf. Maybe a removal of training wheels? :)

    I had always assumed that Haunt->Consume Corpse was an oversight/bug. Even without Haunt, Consume Corpse is still a very viable slot for Graves. Grave Destruction will still do ~587 damage after the nerf, (before the Graves power nerf, maybe ~550 after?) making it a very viable nuke to save for the last pet.

    To clarify that last para: Consume Corpse, along with Grave Destruction, means that saving Graves to be the last pet, with a still-very-strong Grave Destruction, will make Graves no less powerful; it will just change the way he is used.

    4b. Graves stats change

    I'd have to math out the new numbers to comment sensibly.
    sorry, but noncing around with per battles as a priority when state of Alpha for gameplay is so borked ...
    speechless
    thank you blizz, i made a post about this, about graves and AoE comps being OP. thank you for listening
    10/02/2016 17:37Posted by Drukta
    This is a PERFECT and LONG awaited and DESERVED NERV to frog kiss and sleeping gas.

    Noone has taken these abilities EVER beause of the dps they do but because of the CHAIN STUN ability.
    So HUGE thx to the devs for listening to the players.


    Because it was one of a very few ways to kill your Sunflower+Ancient Blossom pet comp? If they add a cooldown, they should add damage boost.

    Eh, I generally don't like the change to Cleave. Will make weebos entirely useless, even though I don't play with Weebos. I'd simply reduce damage v. 2 or 1 pet and keep 100% v 3 pets.
    Also, why can't you just introduce those changes *now*, way before Legion?
    - One round CDs on Frog Kiss/Sleeping Gas are appropriate

    fixed that for you mate :)
    12/02/2016 16:23Posted by Gráinne

    1. Undead Racial
    I think the Undead racial needs a bigger nerf. A 25% reduction in the Undead round reduces the effective value of the racial, for most Undead, from 2 rounds to 1.75 rounds, still leaving it far more powerful than the second-place Mech racial.
    I barely play undead and I can say, no, they dont need a nerf.
    12/02/2016 16:23Posted by Gráinne
    2. Frog Kiss+Sleeping Gas
    The chance for two stuns in a row is 1 in 16. I have never been chain stunned except once or twice at Mirecroak. So I have never seen the problem.
    I am doin pet battles since they were introduced in mop and let me tell you when you do more then 250 pet pvp battles you will see chain stuns happen way to OFTEN from these both abilities.
    But hey Im only down like 45k pvp pet battles what do I know, right? :p
    12/02/2016 16:23Posted by Gráinne
    Further, both of these are ramp-up abilities, so adding a CD simply kills them for regular use.
    then just change them so they still can ramp-up, even with the urgently needed 1 round cd.
    12/02/2016 16:23Posted by Gráinne
    1. Make CC-immunity proc on the first round
    2. Reduce the chance for the stun to proc
    That'll both be nice but would probably need more time then blizzard is willing to invest
    (see the FFF 1.0 debacle)
    12/02/2016 16:23Posted by Gráinne
    3a. Nerf to damage of Thunderbolt, Avalanche, Grave Destruction, Carpnado, Arcane Storm, and Psionic Storm.
    why? they are fine as they are (and thats from, someone who doesnt use them and only encounters them)
    12/02/2016 16:23Posted by Gráinne
    I would also like to see a change in the way the damage is split or applied across the opposing team. Having helpless backline pets who can't defend themselves take full damage just feels bad.
    Why not just kill every AOE abilitie.... seriously thats way over the top.
    Split damage is fine as it is.
    3c. Cleave to get a CD
    Weeb is the only tameable pet in the game with Cleave. This will effectively remove the Weeb from PvP play. I don't want to see pets removed; I want to see more pets viable. I'd prefer a different nerf. Some have been suggested already in the US.
    Seriously?
    Pets these days are 99% Graves + MPD + Random with some AOE too and rarely you see Weeb anymore...

    I had always assumed that Haunt->Consume Corpse was an oversight/bug.
    I allways though of this as clever gameplay....

    @Sandalf: yes, ofc, because elementals are so hard to kill...Oh right, they are not every aquatic kills them with ease :p

    Apart from that my thoughts on testing pet battles in the alpha:
    - you don't have any pets on alpha
    - I don't know any pet battler in alpha (but hey the yt/twitch are more important :))
    - "Especially since completing a Pet Battle on Alpha = game crashing 99%" from the US forum
    - this thread is another example why topics like this SHOULD NOT be split in US and EU....
    (as Brightpawn has shown theres only ~170k pet collectors imagine how much SMALLER the pool of pet battlers then is...)
    @Gráinne – I was going to ask where are you. :)
    @Vakeetah – excuse me for my previous tyra(n)de, I shouldn't have been rushing the discussion so greatly. Now I feel interrogated and I do deserve it! :D
    But seriously, as we've concluded the other way, there may be various solutions that can't be treated separately from other features.
    Let's arrange things better first.
    @Aprix – a nice post and important addition. Didn't want to repeat too much from US, but that calculation thing is a deeper problem.

    EDIT (30.04.16):
    I'm going to make a shortened version of the concerns for people a bit lost here.
    Will be edited in time.

    Original issues:
    • Undead racial seems to heavily influence gameplay, especially PvP one.
    • Suggestions: 1) original one – 25% less damage during the last round.
    • Some abilities can immobilise opponent two or more rounds in a row, what was supposed to be prevented before.
    • Suggestions: 1) original one – adding a 1 round cooldown to them; 2) giving a target immunity to next CCs before the current debuff expires.
    • AoE abilities, especially with a divided damage distribution, are too destructive to maintain the recovery.
    • Suggestions: 1) original one – lowering general damage output of them; 2) shifting the weights of them a bit.
    • NERF GRAVES!
    • Suggestions: 1) original one – changing his stats and swapping abilities.
    • Nerf Howlbomb
    • Suggestions: 1) original one – swapping abilities of the Pandaren Water spirit; 2) original one – reducing the Howl duration to one-time only; 3) better protection of opponents that appear alone.
    Other features mentioned here:
    • Shield calculation ignores racial buffs and some other damage modifiers, rendering higher output mitigable.
    • Shell Armor is too strong – addressed in the April patch note
    • Some terrain-related abilities can be avoided by a generic mitigation, while some not.
    • While Consume Corpse is intended to be used up to twice, Haunt allows to perform it more times.
    • Suggestions: 1) keeping their usage together, but not allowing the haunting pet to come back. 2) making Consume Corpse a more "standard" healing ability.
    • Some pet types have too dull sets of abilities or poor stats to be considered competitive.
    • Dragonkin racial is unclear at the first sight and sometimes hard to be used properly.
    • Suggestions:1) making the buff occurring once per pet 2) making the buff occuring all the time until the wounded pet dies, but it wouldn't affect the other pets. [Heals above the half, of course, still take the buff away.]
    • Magic pets don't benefit from their racial very often.
    • Suggestions: 1) shifting the limit back to 30% 2) giving the limit to the rounds as a whole (discarded behind the scenes)
    • In the past, great amount of healing used to severely affect gameplay too – what may return with damage pruning and reintroducing tanky pets.
    • Suggestions: 1) a fatigue-like mechanic (Think Hearthstone), 2) just considering the new strategies.
    • Minor bugs of some abilities, like Gravity.
    • Flurry is the only multi-hit move that breaks decoys and bubbles in one round, what is inconsistent.
    • Suggestions: 1) giving that advantage to all abilities with the same mechanic (Think Flank or Batter).
    • Stone Form's healing over time is self-interrupted by the stun provided.
    • It isn't sure how the basic critical strike chance works. (From another thread)
    What else I can write:
    • DoT reduction on Aquatic pets looks fine on a paper, but is rarely useful in gameplay due to the subtle nature of DoTs. (The only real benefit comes on sticky bomb procs that are DoTs too.)
    I barely play undead and I can say, no, they dont need a nerf.

    Normally I'd agree, but the problem with Undead is that it allows them 2 extra rounds of life, which is a very big deal. One could argue that so do Mechs - but in their case, they need either Speed or Health to make use of their extra round(s) without dying straight away, which are the stats that the Undead passive trivializes completely.

    Still, I don't think this is the way to address the Undead racial. It helps, but it's just sweeping the problem under the rug.
    I am doin pet battles since they were introduced in mop and let me tell you when you do more then 250 pet pvp battles you will see chain stuns happen way to OFTEN from these both abilities.
    But hey Im only down like 45k pvp pet battles what do I know, right? :p

    I hope you got better arguments than that. Really, it's like saying "I am better than you, so I'm right and you're wrong". In fact, as it happens, both of you are right - the chance is 1:16 (which is relatively small) but over the course of a lot of fights, you'll end up finding streaks of chain-stuns due to sheer probability.

    So yeah, chain stuns are rare, but can happen; which is why addressing them is long overdue. Up to this point I think we all can agree.
    then just change them so they still can ramp-up, even with the urgently needed 1 round cd.
    That'll both be nice but would probably need more time then blizzard is willing to invest
    (see the FFF 1.0 debacle)

    ...and this is where the agreement ends xD
    "Urgently needed cooldown"? No, what we need is a proper means to prevent chain-stuns. And if they're getting around to touching pet abilities for once, might as well touch the right things and save themselves future problems in the process.

    It's like two lines of code, really. Takes more effort to add cooldown to all abilities one by one than to provide a chain-CC safeguard to Resilience.
    why? they are fine as they are (and thats from, someone who doesnt use them and only encounters them)
    Why not just kill every AOE abilitie.... seriously thats way over the top.
    Split damage is fine as it is.

    AoE is relatively unhealthy for the game, but it can remain - if kept in check. Split AoE is also fine for the most part, but there's something awfully wrong when it beats both single-target and AoE attacks, as is the case with Cleave and Thunderbolt.

    Things like Spiritfire Beam (which is specialized AoE, not split) are also arguably too good in terms of overall "dps" - more so when the pets in the background can't defend themselves.

    AoE doesn't need to be removed, just needs to be properly taxed so that it is sub-optimal, compared to fighting the pets head-on.
    13/02/2016 01:39Posted by Drudatz
    Seriously?
    Pets these days are 99% Graves + MPD + Random with some AOE too and rarely you see Weeb anymore...

    All the more reason to work in making more pets viable, no? ;)
    13/02/2016 01:39Posted by Drudatz
    I allways though of this as clever gameplay....

    "Clever use of game mechanics" is often an euphemism for exploiting, probably not in this case, but anyway... :p

    I don't really mind consuming corpses with "haunt", it's more about the ability making sense. There's a once-per-fight restriction, so it's safe to assume that "consuming" a corpse means fully eating it or otherwise leaving it in an unusable state - so there'd be little more than a gnawed carcass when the "soul" of the haunting pet comes back to it.
    13/02/2016 14:38Posted by Vakeetah
    the problem with Undead is that it allows them 2 extra rounds of life, which is a very big deal. One could argue that so do Mechs - but in their case, they need either Speed or Health to make use of their extra round(s) without dying straight away, which are the stats that the Undead passive trivializes completely.


    Indeed. But when comparing racials, we are not only talking about Mechs. Both Undead and Mechs do very well out of racials. Both of those racials outclass all the others.

    Having the Undead racial be "Undead gets to use one ability after going to zero", which has been discussed a lot, would seem about right to me. It gives an incentive to use Speed.

    13/02/2016 14:38Posted by Vakeetah
    AoE doesn't need to be removed, just needs to be properly taxed so that it is sub-optimal, compared to fighting the pets head-on.


    Nicely said. :)

    I will make two separate requests

    1. Prevent Endless Battles

    I would really, really like to see Healing Dampening introduced. It shouldn't be excessive. Healing is an important part of team formation and play, and I wouldn't want to see that damaged. However, any battle going on after 50 rounds or so needs to have its healing reduced.

    This is not just about spam Sunlight teams. Crabs and Crawdads, as the sole survivors of normal teams, will never kill each other.

    Either declare a forced draw, or introduce a stacking nerf to healing after 50 rounds.

    2. Clarify the result of a battle

    Many times, a battle has finished, and I actually can't figure out the result.

    Once, I actually got the "Battle Finished" message rather than the "You Won" message when I had two pets still alive.

    Most of the time, I know whether "Battle Finished" means I lost or I drew. But there have been some odd cases.

    I'd like to see a clear "You Lost" or "Draw" as the closing message.
    I hope you got better arguments than that. Really, it's like saying "I am better than you, so I'm right and you're wrong".
    No its more of the line like "I have more experience with it then you", which is a big deal for pet battles because the more you fight the more you gonna know what abilities the pets of your opponent will have.

    13/02/2016 14:38Posted by Vakeetah
    And if they're getting around to touching pet abilities for once, might as well touch the right things and save themselves future problems in the process.

    I doubt that blizzard is able to do so. See the History of pet battles: FFF 1.0 , DAH 1.0, ..., Graves 1.0
    You do realize the system there?

    13/02/2016 14:38Posted by Vakeetah
    It's like two lines of code, really. Takes more effort to add cooldown to all abilities one by one than to provide a chain-CC safeguard to Resilience.
    And you call me arrogant.? :)

    13/02/2016 14:38Posted by Vakeetah
    AoE doesn't need to be removed, just needs to be properly taxed so that it is sub-optimal, compared to fighting the pets head-on.
    In other words you want Aoe pets removed from the game. Because thats what you get with this.

    13/02/2016 14:38Posted by Vakeetah
    13/02/2016 01:39Posted by Drudatz
    I allways though of this as clever gameplay....

    "Clever use of game mechanics" is often an euphemism for exploiting, probably not in this case, but anyway... :p
    and THATS why I said gameplay and NOT mechanics because its not a cheat but a perfect example of what blizzard is facing since the FFF 1.0.
    People are allways gonna be way more clever than Blizzard and figure the next FOTM out, faster than Blizzard can nerv them.

    Prevent Endless Battles
    I would really, really like to see Healing Dampening introduced. It shouldn't be excessive. Healing is an important part of team formation and play, and I wouldn't want to see that damaged. However, any battle going on after 50 rounds or so needs to have its healing reduced.

    Why? if you dont like long games -> FORFEIT :)
    Plus this kind of thing would ruin some gameplay and propose others, like for example
    "Hey lets drag this fight out as long as possible, so his heals get turn into nothing"
    which you then had to fix again, and so forth.
    13/02/2016 18:02Posted by Drudatz
    13/02/2016 16:43Posted by Gráinne
    1. Prevent Endless Battles
    I would really, really like to see Healing Dampening introduced. It shouldn't be excessive. Healing is an important part of team formation and play, and I wouldn't want to see that damaged. However, any battle going on after 50 rounds or so needs to have its healing reduced.

    Why? if you dont like long games -> FORFEIT :)


    To take a clear example, P/P Emperor Crab vs. Magical Crawdad is a drawn endgame. Neither can ever kill the other.

    Having two people stay there all night just pressing buttons out of stubbornness is not a fun game.

    I don't want to replace an Undead AoE Supremacy with a Legion of players spamming Sunlight and Photosynthesis for days on end.
    13/02/2016 18:13Posted by Gráinne
    To take a clear example, P/P Emperor Crab vs. Magical Crawdad is a drawn endgame. Neither can ever kill the other.
    Having two people stay there all night just pressing buttons out of stubbornness is not a fun game.

    Not for you! I prefer these games over games that are done after 2 minutes.
    If you dont like it like you claim, why dont you forfit?

    13/02/2016 18:13Posted by Gráinne
    I don't want to replace an Undead AoE Supremacy with a Legion of players spamming Sunlight and Photosynthesis for days on end.

    Care to explain, why you think this would happen? compared to graves the combo is BA and SS is in game way loooooooonger as Graves yet most people DON'T use it apart the fact that its a good counter to graves? I tell you why: because it takes time.
    And people these days - be it raids, dungeons, pvp, pet battles - are allways claiming to be in a hurry.

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