Feeling Neglected

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And I don't really like how Rp-ers here act entitled.


I'm sorry you feel this way, when we feel far from this reality you perceive. We are people who never make demands, we grumble and moan about Blizzard not doing much for us but when we feel we've been robbed, we try to voice our opinion. That doesn't make us entitled, it feels you're just using this word to make us look bad for wanting something.

We are in no way a single victim of Blizzard's neglect however this felt like a kick in the nuts for most of us who used b.net (myself included Cenarion Circle aligned and all) for cross faction communications and many of us are voicing our opinions.

Our world is a lot different to yours, seemingly a PvPer from your armoury, The more surprising thing is you're on a RPPvP server, one that used to be a great source of said such. So this just shows me that RP realms no longer are cared for, considering you yourself do not engage in RP when you're on a RPPvP server.

27/03/2016 22:01Posted by Nèmo
That's typical. Here come the insults. But don't worry I expected this, so be my guest, insult away, fit the stereotype. Please tell me why I'm being childish? You keep telling me my arguments are all wrong but all I see are just half arsed opinions about when random people think faction identity died and so on.


Let's not try to victimise ourselves here, Nemo. It seems you have had poor times with RPers in the past. But I myself have had poor experience with PvPers calling me bad or such when they just seem my realm tag. It is not one person who defines the entire group. You yourself are outright accusing us of being entitled and hateful group. You're kicking the hornets nest expecting us to sit back and allow you to make accusations.

Our arugments are actually well recieved by much of the community. Your opinion on our arguments are rather hostile if you ask me.

And I agree with you that faction identity is a thing many would want to percieve well but you can still have faction identity without the languages. What makes a faction is what it is made up of, not the language. Culture =/= Language. Look at our own world as an example. America and Great Britain are a country who shares a language but are very different culturally.

Other than that, your 'arguments' have been accusing RPer's of all sorts and labelling them as things. What bothers me more is that you reside on an RP realm which has the intent of RP on it, yet you choose not to engage in activities. It's a pet peeve of mine to see people thinking that it's okay to attack RPers of things yet use a server designated for the very thing. Kind of like taking a crap on the floor of a friends house.
Of course, having the ability to speak cross-faction doesn't mean a rise in neutral RP. Just means more opportunities for adversarial RP with wider development.

Nemo, out of interest, do you talk to friends via Battlenet? If so, do some play Alliance while you play Horde? If so, do you purposefully not talk to them at those times, because it would break the rules? If the rule was so stringent, why did Blizz allow that functionality, and still maintain it with 1 to 1 whispers?

I wouldn't mind one day for the language barrier to be totally abolished. But that isn't a fight that will be won anytime soon if at all. And it isn't the reason for this thread or the ones like it, although the discussion does tend to gravitate that way.

The thread is about a convenient and liked feature that was removed, with little fanfare and no explanation. RPers aren't wanting new things. They'd be happier with having the same tools they had before this patch. Or at the very least some acknowledgement and reasoning. Is that really too much to ask?

And the feature wasn't used exclusively for the purposes of RP. In the times I have RPed, I have never used it myself, although it was used during events I have taken part in. However, I have used it for keeping in touch with friends I met in my early wow days.

When i started back in early Wrath, I was on Azuremyst, and met many wonderful friends. When Real ID arrived, I added a lot of my friends from there. One by one many left, later to return. Over the course of the years we've scattered. But there have been times several of us were on at once and we fancied a catch up while going about out day to day business. Hence, we used bnet convos. Even all on the same faction, if not the same realm. Now, I won't have that experience, of talking to several friends in one chat and reliving the old times unless we all gravitated back to a singular realm, or otherwise grouped up. Sometimes we just want to chat while questing, soloing an old raid or something else.

While the protests have been spearheaded by the RP community, it is wrong to suggest that they were the only one to use it, or that the system was only used for communicating cross-faction. It is not wholly an issue of RPers, and it isn't about entitlement. Blizz removed a useful feature that could be used for RP, but was more intended for social interaction. During the content droughts, it hasn't been Blizz keeping me here. It's been friends, being able to keep in touch, and, yes, RP. Personally, I don't want anything new. I'd just prefer to have the same features I did a week or so ago. Is it really too much to desire what we have happily had for a long while? Is it too much to ask and hope for an explanation? And is it really a display of entitlement to be annoyed at having features stripped away? I don't believe so.
On the other hand, in a much more logical point of view:
Whenever the amount of players drop below a certain amount after Legion (say 3 million) and I am sure they will, Blizzard has to do something instead of going into full "wait and see" mode the way they do currently.

Allowing cross-faction communitcation would be a solution to reanimate the chat and RP state in neutral locations and towns that are not Booty Bay. And it would be a very good opportunity to merge the, then, already crippled amount of players.
Perhaps we should return to topic.

Nemo's dislike of roleplayers doesn't really have a lot to do with the fact that a complaint was launched for three weeks over 30+ page threads and in spite of multiple people begging on twitter and blues getting involved, we never had a single drop of feedback.

It doesn't really matter what kind of feature was removed. It matters that a feature was removed and Blizzard didn't give a fig about even telling anyone why.
23/03/2016 22:41Posted by Ranor
All I want is for us to be treated evenly as other players. If there's a big hub-bub over a PvE or PvP change, you'll get blue posts commenting within a week or two. We're past two weeks and the last post was from well before the feature was removed, and now it's removed.

You lot seem to be big on being treated evenly, so its only fair that as a whole you match what PvE or PvP players pay to get preferential treatment

If you lot want to be treated evenly, you have to provide the same amount of revenue that Blizzard gets from PvE or PvP players.

Any business will cater to those that makes them the most money, it isn't personal, which you lot seem to think that it is, based on your Being Treated Evenly argument.
28/03/2016 12:09Posted by Canabal
23/03/2016 22:41Posted by Ranor
All I want is for us to be treated evenly as other players. If there's a big hub-bub over a PvE or PvP change, you'll get blue posts commenting within a week or two. We're past two weeks and the last post was from well before the feature was removed, and now it's removed.

You lot seem to be big on being treated evenly, so its only fair that as a whole you match what PvE or PvP players pay to get preferential treatment

If you lot want to be treated evenly, you have to provide the same amount of revenue that Blizzard gets from PvE or PvP players.

Any business will cater to those that makes them the most money, it isn't personal, which you lot seem to think that it is, based on your Being Treated Evenly argument.


Well, that's a poor argument right there and I'll explain why.

Why should then Blizzard bother making Mythic modes for raids and spending so much time and money when there's only a tiny portion of the player base able to play such mode? Would be better to just remove that mode and concentrate on the bigger portion of players and that's the ones that can't get to that raid setting.

The same can then be applied to the high ranking PvP Arena so we can then remove funding for making those and put it into the bigger portion of the player base instead and improve the game there. And it would be best for business as you're not catering to the higher number of players and if that's casuals then you would reap in more revenue by removing the high end content completely.

Not so fun when that argument now starts to eat into your own part of the game is it? Which may happen if numbers keep going down and the bigger portion of the money for the game isn't from hardcore players but from casuals the game may see a shift towards that to maintain the bigger slice of the pie.

But that point is already happening. WoW isn't making as much revenue anymore so you can't expect them to make big content patches with lots of stuff to do within them when they are making more money off Hearthstone, Hearts of Stone and no doubt will make more money from Overwatch.

Maybe that's why Warlords has a lot less content, we're not providing enough revenue anymore to justify on a business point of view to put as much content into the game anymore as they used to.

And now that argument isn't so great, is it?
28/03/2016 12:09Posted by Canabal
23/03/2016 22:41Posted by Ranor
All I want is for us to be treated evenly as other players. If there's a big hub-bub over a PvE or PvP change, you'll get blue posts commenting within a week or two. We're past two weeks and the last post was from well before the feature was removed, and now it's removed.

You lot seem to be big on being treated evenly, so its only fair that as a whole you match what PvE or PvP players pay to get preferential treatment

If you lot want to be treated evenly, you have to provide the same amount of revenue that Blizzard gets from PvE or PvP players.

Any business will cater to those that makes them the most money, it isn't personal, which you lot seem to think that it is, based on your Being Treated Evenly argument.


As said, by that logic we should remove Mythic raids. Oh and high end PvP balance and all it's relevant rewards that only a tiny number of people will actually see or make use of.

At the end of the day we are still paying customers, we're not asking for preferential treatment, only equality.

For a long time I liked Blizzard for not stomping down on RP, even if they didn't do much -for- it they never trod on our toes whereas most MMOs lack RP servers, addon capability, emotes, or even remove RP-centric features (GW2 Townclothes anyone?) because raisins.

But since about Cataclysm, they began to gradually squeeze down on us, or so it feels. It started with removing the SW Park, which was a major RP hub (As it had many empty but intact shops, taverns, etc). But then we started getting obscene amounts of phasing, making RP in some zones impossible unless you had your entire guild do a quest line (And at times it'd get you stuck with some kind of permanent effect, see the Stonetalon tabard...). And now we have this whole shinding.

All we want is to just be able to RP in peave without having our area disrupted. We don't need raids, battlegrounds, or heck even new zones. Just... the ability to RP in -peace- is all we really need, and any RP-centric boons are welcomed on the rare occasion they're given.

28/03/2016 09:18Posted by Koriandr
fact that a complaint was launched for three weeks over 30+ page threads and in spite of multiple people begging on twitter and blues getting involved, we never had a single drop of feedback.

It doesn't really matter what kind of feature was removed. It matters that a feature was removed and Blizzard didn't give a fig about even telling anyone why.


This is my biggest grief. We're getting a feature chopped out, but nobody knows why. As mentioned I know several non-RP friends who used the feature for easily speaking to officers across alts and the like.
As said, by that logic we should remove Mythic raids. Oh and high end PvP balance and all it's relevant rewards that only a tiny number of people will actually see or make use of.


Not even close. Blizzard makes a huge amount from large scale PVP tournaments, enough so to award cash prizes in the higher end of five figure sums of money.

The Mythic raider player base might be not as large as normal or HC raiding, but its still massive and has enough interest that world first races are still a big deal, even if Method and Paragon are giving it up.

Roleplaying is all well and good, but its not high on Blizzards list of priorities because it doesnt draw people in. There are no massive RP events getting covered because its a niche market. Alot of online games have small Roleplaying communities with zero dev support, be thankful to Blizz that they have dedicated servers for you.

Cross faction conversations going is a bummer for RPers, but if theres a chance it can affect competative PVP then it'll go.
Well, it's been present since Cataclysm. It seems a little odd that it'd have to get ripped out now. But even so, if that was the case, would it hurt Blizzard to come out and say it?
28/03/2016 13:54Posted by Koriandr

Well, it's been present since Cataclysm. It seems a little odd that it'd have to get ripped out now. But even so, if that was the case, would it hurt Blizzard to come out and say it?


Best to keep doing what you're doing. Keep kicking up a stink on the forums, Facebook, Twitter, everything.

They cant ignore it forever or they'll lose even more subs.
http://i.imgur.com/tPZ6H8a.webm

Footage of this Pandaren roleplayer who managed to infiltrate Blizzard HQ was recently leaked. According to reports he was screaming "Nom nom nom nom", indicating a demeanor of hopeless neglect.
27/03/2016 15:17Posted by Nèmo


You don't need to rub butts with humans and nelfs to be able to RP. You have been doing fine for a long time before this neutral RP became a thing.


Neutral RP has a been a 'thing' since Vanilla when Tauren and Night Elf druids held joint ceremonies to honour the moon. On RP-PVE servers druids have certainly been roleplaying their class lore since the start of WoW .
Conversations via b.net made it easier and it blossomed but it's been around longer than BG's, or Arenas or raiding as they were introduced in patches/Xpacs
28/03/2016 12:23Posted by Shoazaze
Why should then Blizzard bother making Mythic modes for raids and spending so much time and money when there's only a tiny portion of the player base able to play such mode?

So you're taken the premise from what I said in a general statement and applying it to a specific scenario to debunk my argument?

The PvE community in general provides a significant amount of the revenue Blizzard receives for World of Warcraft, separating that community by difficulty doesn't remove that tier from the community, herein lies your mistake, you actually think that it does.

So my Previous Post still stands as correct.

At the end of the day we are still paying customers, we're not asking for preferential treatment, only equality.

This isn't Civil Rights, its business, it doesn't have anything to do with Equality, but everything to do with Preferential Treatment.

If the revenue receive from you lot was on par with that of the PvE and PvP community, maybe, just maybe, they might be more sympathetic to your concerns.
That still doesn't really answer the thread's question: Why do complaints backed by hundreds get exactly zero response?
28/03/2016 16:52Posted by Koriandr
That still doesn't really answer the thread's question: Why do complaints backed by hundreds get exactly zero response?

Figure It Out

If I was to answer that question, the response I give won't be acceptable to you, the only acceptable response for you, would be from you Figuring out the answer yourself.
Funny how some people think roleplaying is all RP'ers do in this game.
28/03/2016 01:04Posted by Nydraen
Our world is a lot different to yours, seemingly a PvPer from your armoury, The more surprising thing is you're on a RPPvP server, one that used to be a great source of said such. So this just shows me that RP realms no longer are cared for, considering you yourself do not engage in RP when you're on a RPPvP server.


I didn't choose this realm because it was a PVP realm, I started playing on the Earhten Ring server back in Vanilla. I switched to Sporeggar in TBC and finally to Defias not long before the servers got merged. I said it myself in this thread that I like the bonus the RP brings to the game even if I don't do it myself. I give credit to the contribution it has on my experience in WoW in fact I used to fake afk just to listen to people roleplaying in major cities and wherever... in fact I still do it. But that does not mean I have to agree with anything someone who brands himself a RP-er says.

28/03/2016 01:04Posted by Nydraen
Let's not try to victimise ourselves here, Nemo. It seems you have had poor times with RPers in the past. But I myself have had poor experience with PvPers calling me bad or such when they just seem my realm tag. It is not one person who defines the entire group. You yourself are outright accusing us of being entitled and hateful group. You're kicking the hornets nest expecting us to sit back and allow you to make accusations.


You think I'm victimizing myself? I'm not. Your opinions, not just yours personally, but several here seem to be making me the enemy of RP which is simply not true. I've been around RP for a long time, I've seen many things that formed my opinion. The sense of entitlement is real and not just in a few. The drama is also real. There is a tendency for drama even in this discussion, even regarding my presence in this thread.

Yeah there are bad seeds in every aspect of the game. And it would be fair, for both of us, to admit that every aspect of the game is partially defined by these bad seeds. Like it or not you carry the baggage when you try to represent your entire play style and pretending they don't exist or refusing to acknowledge them is not something that inspires me or anyone else to take you seriously. And the fact is roleplay in warcraft can bring about quite a bit of drama and a bigger tenancy towards it. If you think that is an unfounded accusation then be my guest and prove me wrong.

28/03/2016 01:04Posted by Nydraen
Our arugments are actually well recieved by much of the community. Your opinion on our arguments are rather hostile if you ask me.


Just about as feral buffs would be recieved on the druid forum but that does not matter. This does not concern just your community it concerns more than that and the reason i sound hostile is because many of you don't seem to understand that or simply refuse to. But fine... I guess I could try to sound less hostile.

28/03/2016 01:04Posted by Nydraen
And I agree with you that faction identity is a thing many would want to percieve well but you can still have faction identity without the languages. What makes a faction is what it is made up of, not the language. Culture =/= Language. Look at our own world as an example. America and Great Britain are a country who shares a language but are very different culturally.


You know, when i hear people trying to bring up real world examples to justify game play mechanics I feel the hostility returning. There is a reason we can't understand each other in game as players but we are able to understand some NPCs and how NPCs are able to understand each other all the time. So please, let's stop using real world examples for this part of the game because as I stipulated before, in the real world when you get killed you don't get to corpse run and resurrect yourself. You stay dead.

28/03/2016 01:04Posted by Nydraen
Other than that, your 'arguments' have been accusing RPer's of all sorts and labelling them as things. What bothers me more is that you reside on an RP realm which has the intent of RP on it, yet you choose not to engage in activities. It's a pet peeve of mine to see people thinking that it's okay to attack RPers of things yet use a server designated for the very thing. Kind of like taking a crap on the floor of a friends house.


And what bothers me is that you are making things up about me without actually knowing. I do respect and endorse ropleplay, but that does not mean I have to blindly agree with every other roleplayer out there for every request they make. Let me underline this once again - I am not against roleplay, I have a different oppinion regarding this subject and about a decade of experience around role players.

28/03/2016 03:34Posted by Katarina
Nemo, out of interest, do you talk to friends via Battlenet? If so, do some play Alliance while you play Horde? If so, do you purposefully not talk to them at those times, because it would break the rules? If the rule was so stringent, why did Blizz allow that functionality, and still maintain it with 1 to 1 whispers?


Yes to the first question, yes to the second. I talk to them whenever I fell like it or they do. And when I feel like talking to all of them I join them on an alliance character. This is just my opinion and like I said I don't engage directly in RP, but as a Horde character I have nothing to say to them. I was never a fan of this "fraternizing" especially when I saw Alliance players in Horde cities but I tollarated it because it felt like a prick move to gank them... unless they were !@#$ing gnomes (i'm not kidding) which I would %^-* up on sight... unless they !@#$ed me up first.
Roleplay survived well enough without B-net conversations. Yes it decayed over time but that is not attributed just to Blizzards supposed neglect of the roleplayers but due to a good degree of drama, quite a few poor story and aesthetic decisions and a general drop in quality.

To conclude my point, let me tell you that you are a much smaller community than the EU battle group but we still don't have an answer why russians were shove right up our bums (and no before someone misinterprets this too, I don't hate russians I just hate the fact I can't interrupt them...ever.).
So perhaps you should be joining us in asking why we get no feedback instead of writing your autobiography.
28/03/2016 18:26Posted by Hargorin
Funny how some people think roleplaying is all RP'ers do in this game.

Perception is Reality, what we actually do, doesn't define us, what does is what we're perceived to be doing.

You're perfect example of this, you called them RP'ers, why?

Btw mate, if you have a point you're trying to make, make it, don't just state something that's obvious, you're wasting your time in doing so but more importantly your wasting Mines.
28/03/2016 18:54Posted by Canabal
You're perfect example of this, you called them RP'ers, why?


Well that is what they do right, what other name do you suggest I use?

28/03/2016 18:54Posted by Canabal
Btw mate, if you have a point you're trying to make, make it, don't just state something that's obvious, you're wasting your time in doing so but more importantly your wasting Mines.


I am not trying to make a point, merely stating something as you just said. I'm wasting your time? You're the one who decides to respond to what I say, so the only one who wasted your time is none other than yourself.

Further, for some reason you add this unnecessary hostile tone to your comments. Disagree with someone all you want but for goodness sake keep it civil. Talking like a richard doesn't make me take you any more seriously.

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