[Alpha] Beast Mastery pruning

Hunter
Like many others I've been following the class changes in the alpha here on the forum and on Wowhead and MMO Champion. Since I'm not in the alpha myself, I'm not able to post in the testing forums, and it's strongly suggested that we "try it before we comment". I'm also not a theorycrafter, more a "feelcrafter" looking for fun! And I'm finding it impossible to keep my mouth shut any longer; the same issues with our beloved spec have been brought up again and again in the alpha-forum without being addressed, and now some developers have stated that the specs are mostly done, and only tuning is left. So am I already too late?

I’ve played this draenei hunter for 9 years now. She was my first character, and my main for the biggest part of those years. (I mained a monk in MOP and the first year of WOD.)

There were two big reasons I started to play a hunter back when:
1) The pet. I was entirely new to the game and the MMO-genre, and it felt safer to have a companion with me. That, and I love animals.
2) Aspect of the Cheetah. Since it took a long time to get to the level at where I could learn to ride back then (which was level 40), I was given the advice to take a hunter or a druid for the increased run speed.

Over the years I've gained several more reasons to why I appreciate this class so much; I love being the ranger with a longbow and shooting arrows on the move.

I've been through a lot with this hunter. I remember the pet happiness system, ammo, quivers, stutter-stepping between autoshots (autoshot wouldn't go off if you were moving), serpent/scorpid/viper sting, mana and actually having armor with intellect and mp5 (mana per 5 secs), volley, the MM armor pen-stacking days, old talent trees, etc. There's been so many changes over the years, and I'm happy to say that most have been good! I think the change to our resource system from mana to focus is my favorite change of them all.

I understand the reasoning behind “the prune”. After recently having leveled yet another hunter, this time as SV, I could clearly see how similar BM and SV are. And yes, even too similar. What stuck out to me the most, was how incredibly much I missed Kill Shot as SV! Other than that I've always enjoyed Explosive Shot, but all in all I could see that the two specs' development over the years had made them so alike that there is really no longer room for both of them. (I'm sure this goes for MM as well, but I haven't played that spec since ICC.)

For every hunter out there you will have a different view or opinion on everything. While I loved the change that gave us focus, someone else hated it. And while I think Hati seems like a cool idea, someone else will hate him. I hope that with the different improvements he gets with every alpha build, he will truely be a great companion in the end. While I think the artifact-gun is a bad idea that provides me with a forced class fantasy where I would have preferred to use my own imagination, others love it!
Me mentioning I have played a hunter for 9 years doesn't really mean anything. There's always someone else that played longer than me, and neither of our opinions are more important than the opinion of the girl or boy that has played a hunter for 1 year. Sifting through all these different opinions can't be easy.

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Summary so far: I've played hunter for a long time, I'm not scared of change, I understand that pruning needs to happen, and I realize that there's a vast sea of differing feedback.

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I sure stayed calm for a good while. But that stops now. I FEEL SO FRUSTRATED!

Beast Master hunters list of pruning:

  • We lose the 30 % increased movement speed that we had in common with shamans and druids, while they both keep theirs.
  • We lose our traps, while Survival keeps them.
  • We lose our Kill Shot. Monks also lose their execute, while warriors and shadow priests keep theirs.
  • Camouflage. SV and MM keep it.
  • Tranquilizing Shot. Druids lose Soothe too, Shamans keep Purge.
  • Arcane Shot. MM keeps the name. Cobra Shot is the new Arcane Shot for BM.
  • Cobra Shot AKA our entire playstyle rotation-wise! Now we do Kill Command + other stuff that has a CD, and weave Arcane Shot and Cobra Shot in, depending on if we need Focus or want to get rid of it. Then at boss <20 % it changes a bit, and we get Kill Shot. Our new rotation will be to hit stuff on cd, and then either use new Cobra Shot or wait around.
  • All hunters and shamans lose many of the < lvl 40 transmog sets we’ve had available to us since the transmog system was introduced in Cataclysm. I feel it’s fair that the platewearers get access to these sets, but I hate that they’re being taken away from us.


Why do this spec need to lose so much!?! Why the movement speed, the traps, Kill Shot, Tranq Shot, Arcane Shot, OUR ENTIRE VERY AWSOME CURRENT ROTATION and a whole bunch of transmog??! Is it really necessary? What are we supposed to be happy about keeping, our pets? Do we keep anything at all that another class looses, or were BM-hunters just so awsome and loved by everyone that they needed to lose it all?

What bugs me the most by far is the rotation. We've already lost Hunter's Mark and Serpent Sting, and now with Cobra Shot being reworked and Kill Shot being removed, our rotation is changing into something completely different all together. I trust Blizzard initially, but when one of the class designers state that Focus isn’t working as it “should” currently, and then I see the comparisons to rogues and feral druids in the alpha-thread, I feel like a non-hunter has decided that rogue/feral druid is the golden standard, and that hunter play needs to change from what current hunters like into something that a feral druid or rogue would like. And then my trust diminishes! How am I supposed to feel about this, when my two least favorite classes are rogue and druid? How can the way that focus has worked for 5,5 years suddenly be wrong?

I want to quote someone on the US forum: "The feel of the hunter (Cata-WoD) is you're always doing an action, with the recent incarnation feeling very Diablo-esque where you are always building or spending your resource. Marksman has retained this design but BM hasn't for some reason and it needs it back."

PLEASE don't be done with BM, please read the feedback on the alpha-forum that so many hunters have worked hard for to provide, and please take it to heart!

I’m not sure what to do if this truly becomes new-BM. Should I try to get used to this new spec? Or will I have to reluctantly go MM and stable my dear Spirit Beasts, just so I can get a good rotation and a bow-artifact? Or should I change my class again, and try to not become so invested and involved this time around?

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Build 21655 (the newest one): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743794497
Build 21570: http://us.battle.net/wow/en-us/forum/topic/20743654415
Build 21531: http://us.battle.net/wow/en-us/forum/topic/20743404341
Build 21466: http://us.battle.net/wow/en-us/forum/topic/20743164174
Build 21414: http://us.battle.net/wow/en-us/forum/topic/20742916582
Build 21287: http://us.battle.net/wow/en-us/forum/topic/20742814730
Build 21249: http://us.battle.net/wow/en-us/forum/topic/20742625219
Build 21232: http://us.battle.net/wow/en-us/forum/topic/20742734803

All hunter changes from WoD to Legion: http://www.wowhead.com/guides/classes/legion/hunter
I read this, and it was clearly very heartfelt and resonated with me. I'm open to the excitement and possibility of change, but when it is this dramatic, and takes away so much of what I know I have enjoyed about the class and spec, it has to be offering a really clear vision of the class/spec that I can get onboard with and that would generally resonate with the player base. That sense is completely and utterly absent from the Alpha period.

If the gameplay is as poor as the testers have been saying, then I don't see what this class has to offer current and returning players anymore. I really think Blizzard has to communicate about this.
Did some BM testing on beta and I'm kinda disappointed. Mostly because there's downtime where you are just auto attacking waiting for focus. This might of course be different at 110 with some gear but as of right now at 100 It's pretty !@#$
I watched some alpha and beta on twitch and it looks horrible. BM throws pets at people, looks goofy as hell, that retarded 90 year old, hardly moving dire basilisk? Wtf? No traps? No double deterr?

Survival goes melee so I'm not interested. (surv gets traps tho, so you can kite - but wtf would you since you're melee?)

MM - never played it.

I main 2 hunters. So what's left for me?


Beast Master hunters list of pruning:

  • We lose the 30 % increased movement speed that we had in common with shamans and druids, while they both keep theirs.
  • We lose our traps, while Survival keeps them.
  • We lose our Kill Shot. Monks also lose their execute, while warriors and shadow priests keep theirs.
  • Camouflage. SV and MM keep it.
  • Tranquilizing Shot. Druids lose Soothe too, Shamans keep Purge.
  • Arcane Shot. MM keeps the name. Cobra Shot is the new Arcane Shot for BM.
  • Cobra Shot AKA our entire playstyle rotation-wise! Now we do Kill Command + other stuff that has a CD, and weave Arcane Shot and Cobra Shot in, depending on if we need Focus or want to get rid of it. Then at boss <20 % it changes a bit, and we get Kill Shot. Our new rotation will be to hit stuff on cd, and then either use new Cobra Shot or wait around.
  • All hunters and shamans lose many of the < lvl 40 transmog sets we’ve had available to us since the transmog system was introduced in Cataclysm. I feel it’s fair that the platewearers get access to these sets, but I hate that they’re being taken away from us.


I am deeply concerned about the loss of skills, i can understand from Blizz point of view that these skills add nothing to raid rotation (their only concern) but they make the class fun to play when exploring PVE

the loss of AotC which has been with us since day one for a PVP escape skill is totally unforgivable IMO

i will mourn the loss of spirt bond, as for me it creates empathy between me and my pet and forces me to focus on keeping him up, rather than just using it as a spam zerg tool

crows and barrage on the same line ?????? no crowd control as we have to take intimidation as an interrupt

i really am baffled by blizzards logic, we are supposed to be a mobile kiting class, now with no CC ????

WoD "there will only be raid content" 50% of the playerbase quit

LEGION "you will get lots of none raid content, but we are going to make most of the classes raid rotation skills only!" ????

I will add I will hold judgement on the loss of cobra shot until i have tried the new resource gen and it sounds far more interesting, potentially
Everything is better than what we have on live, no pet interaction, a buildup mechanic called focus fire that has nothing to do with being a master of beasts. Also all three hunter specs on live are basicly the same with minor changes, im happy blizzard has the balls to ignore the vocal minority and go through with their plans!

The only thing a bm hunter need for traps is the one for freezing a pet while taming, and that can be solved by skill or a sooth beast spell or whatever, you do not need traps. Deal with it, we are no longer gods that let pet do all the tanking.

And like you said you have not set a foot in the beta, you have not experienced the new classes just saw it, and read about it, just wait till you got your hands and THEN complain if there is still something bad about it.
17/05/2016 10:04Posted by Tammo

The only thing a bm hunter need for traps is the one for freezing a pet while taming, and that can be solved by skill or a sooth beast


this is the sort of stupid feedback from people who have zero idea how to play a BM that has resulted in the current skill cull / fun removal

freezing trap is a core part of general PVE play (as is AotC and FD), if you know what you are doing, rather than just mindlessly mashing buttons with your forehead
I couldn't relate to & agree more with this.
My very first character was a Hunter back in TBC.
We've lost allot over the years like many other classes have but this feels we're losing so much that makes the spec my favourite.

Camouflage.
I love my ability to stealth. It's a valuable tool, especially in PvP. I'm no Rogue but it helps.

Cheetah.
Why must we lose our speed buff? I fully understand removing Pack as it's used to troll more than anything.
But Cheetah....I have that on all the time. I even have the glyph to remove the stun.
It's as integral to my playstale as my bow or pet.

Traps.
I also love my traps.
I use all three of them all the time.
Must of this pruning just feels like taking our toys away & giving them to the other specs to make them feel special.

It's ironic how they talk about class identity being important while removing much of what we love about our class.
Beast Master is the last true Hunter spec.
Marksman are nothing more than archers without one of the most enjoyable parts of being a Hunter, the pet.
& Survival is taking away most of our toys to be relevant again while waving around a spear.

I loved Eyes Of The Beast. But at least that was just a novelty ability.
They are now taking away the things I use the most.

Why not take away Druid flight & travel forms from all but one spec while you're at it guys. Because that;s what it feels like you're doing.
Taking things away without giving us anything in return.
Our entire comfortable & fun rotation with no downtime is going.

I know how whiny I sound here but this is & has always been my favourite class & spec & they just seem to be screwing us over for no other reason than to make the other specs more appealing.

I hope they at least change their mind about Cheetah. I'm going to feel so slow without it.
19/05/2016 08:43Posted by Pranda
freezing trap is a core part of general PVE play
Let me correct you on that, Freezing trap is a core part of general class CC, PvE wise its only used to CC a lone target on that odd fight or trash pack here and there.

Other than that, not much I can nitpick, BM looks even more boring on beta than it currently is on live, which is a shame, used to be such a fun spec to play a few years back.

Ability pruning, more like no fun allowed and lets dumb an already fairly easy and forward class even more down.
Still no changes in beta, and I've seen no comments from devs if more changes are coming. I'm worried.
31/05/2016 09:49Posted by Laeleiweyn
Still no changes in beta, and I've seen no comments from devs if more changes are coming. I'm worried.


i am very worried, i love BM even in our current already nurfed and pruned state from 5.0

we are potentially 8 weeks from 7.0 launching and zero feedback acknowledgement
BM litterely has become a 3 button spec. There is little to no challenge to it, however i can't say if this is intended so that new players will have an easy time getting theg rasp of a hunter before witching to MM.
I won a beta key from Wowhead, so I have now started playing in the beta! So far I got my artifact weapon, did some quests in one of the new zones and killed a couple of rares.

The new rotation isn't 100 % bad (with Chimaera Shot and Murder of Crows). It reminds me more of how ret pally or enh shaman is currently, more than rogue/feral; you use all your stuff when you can and sometimes you get gaps where you can't do anything. I still don't see the point of changing something in the name of "making it more different", and then make it more similar to something that already exists though. Our rotation is unique (to hunters) on live, and on beta it's not anymore.

I want to request that you let us keep current Cobra Shot, Kill Shot and Aspect of the Cheetah (you don't have to give us the glyph if that's what makes it OP), and then I'll let traps, camo and Tranq go...
Hunter is one of the only classes where I truly know every spell that I have, and my fingers will securely fire off the right keybind for the situation, be it situational abilities like Counter Shot, Tranquilizing Shot and Master's Call or lifesavers like Feign Death, Deterrence and Camouflage. And I miss them so much on beta! I tried a Ret Pally for a little bit while testing the demon invasion, and although their rotation is also very (too?) different (like ours), they have kept much of their utility! They have heals and shields and hands and taunt and stuff. So again it seems like we lost so much that others didn't.

The only spells we have that I rarely use on live are Eagle Eye, Beast Lore and Feed Pet. Not that you should take them away, I'm happy we get to keep them, but... I'm just sad about all that we lose.

I've gotten used to the new rotation kind of. It's definitely a step down in "fun" from what we have in WoD, but I've gotten used to it. (So much so that when I was doing Brawler's Guild on live yesterday, my muscle memory thought I was still playing beta, and messed up quite a lot.)

I'm happy about Hati, getting used to having the two pets. I've already grown tired of his base skin, but I'm closing in on level 110, so I should be able to change it soon. I hope that Shadowed Unit Frames will give me a bar for him though, so I can keep an eye out for his health and aggro.

Another thing I think is fine, is actually pet health. As long as it's the same for all players, I don't mind the more difficult questing experience. Mobs take longer to die, and they hit harder. As I said, if it's more difficult for everyone, I don't mind it. AOE-ing down 5-6 mobs may seem effective, but not sure how fun it is.

Last point: Aspect of the Pack. We're running SO slowly now! A 3 minute cooldown for a sprint, it's not even a band aid for losing 30 % movement speed all the time, it's more like an insult! Why do shamans and druids get to keep their increased speed and not us? Can't you rather remove it when we enter combat if you think it's OP? Why do new classes like monks and demon hunters get to be so freaking mobile and fast, and we're slowed down so much?
BMs are dire on the PTR, i will however give it a decent amount of playtime over the weekend but so much has been lost :(

AotC is now the worst skill in the game, why was it necessary to ruin AotC?
Been MM hunter since forever. Just tested MM on the PTR and this is maybe the first time I am considering another class. Two things I hate: Aimed Shot is now a "stand still" shot (can't be used while moving) and Cheetah became completely useless (3 minutes cooldown for few seconds of speed burst).

Overall the hunter class feels slow as fu*k when you're on ground. You mvoe at 100% speed, which is horrendous compared to the good old Cheetah + glyph speed buff. Seriously, this is like a basic Warrior movement speed: slow and freaking annoying.

MM was totally revamped and I can't still give any opinion. Damage meters addons don't work so it's nealry impossible to have a real dps feedback. I loved the Volley idea but -sadly- it's currently useless as its damage is extremely low compared to Multishot (same tier, still a must-have).

I hope Blizzard will revert their Cheetah change.
17/06/2016 11:22Posted by Crossbow
Damage meters addons don't work so it's nealry impossible to have a real dps feedback.


Recount works on Beta, so it might be that it works on PTR too.
Damage meters addons don't work so it's nealry impossible to have a real dps feedback.


Cool I will try it now then :)
I'm now level 110 and have done most dungeons, visited all zones, done some world quests, killed many rares, and done LFR.

Pets really are squishy! Even with using Mend Pet, Exhiliration, Spirit Mend and Gift of the Naaru on cooldown!
If I fight the more difficult rares, the pet dies very quickly. So I use Heart of the Phoenix, and I can probably use one manual Revive Pet, but that's it. My own health will be so low by then that I have to Feign Death and run away.
Some places it's impossible to pull only one mob (especially where there are murlocs or harpies), and the pet doesn't die immediately, but health goes down slow and steady, despite Mend Pet.

Also fighting rares and named quest mobs, I really really miss Master's Call and Tranquilizing Shot. These mobs are getting smarter and smarter with their stuns and self-buffs, but my hunter is getting more and more stupid on how to get out of difficult situations!
Shouldn't Master's Call be the ultimate "BEAST MASTER CLASS FANTASY" ability really, getting your pet to come to your aid, removing snares etc that are on you?
haaha i rly dont know who fa fuk is downvoting these guys xD ,its hillarius to see a guy making a 5 min read post and ppl downvote him for making a usfull feedback.

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