Don't just prune abilities,remove racials too

General
Overpowered much ?

New beta build sees the following

"Racials
Human

The Human Spirit Increases Agility, Intellect, and Strength by 1% (old build). Human Racial. You gain 2% (new build) more of all secondary stats (Haste, Critical Strike, Mastery, Versatility) from all sources. Human Racial.

In contrast, as a belf I get to replace all of 15 energy every 1.5 mins (but have to press a key to get that oh so massive increase), 1% increase to crit, and a 1% decrease in arcane dmg (which is irrelavant as it's not a dps buff) . (The 2-3 sec silence is also more or less irrelavant outside of pvp and is also irrelavant for the purpose of this thread as well as it's not a dps buff).

I won't even speak of the human racial that gives a whacking 10% increase to rep.

Clearly, in comparing what a human gets to what a belf gets, the human racials are way OP.

Clearly, as far as ALL racials are concerned, some races are top of the pile and some are wallowing in the dirt, so never mind just pruning abilities in Legion, just REMOVE ALL RACIALS as well.

WoW is supposed to be "bring the player not the class. That should extend to bring the player not the race (but on the face of it, progression guilds will be mandatory rerolling human with the VERY nice passive and permanently up dps buffs they're on course to get if nothing gets changed from the upcoming build until Legion goes live).

JUST REMOVE RACIALS AND PUT EVERYONE ON THE SAME LEVEL PLAYING FIELD
20/05/2016 04:23Posted by Lswindrunner

JUST REMOVE RACIALS AND PUT EVERYONE ON THE SAME LEVEL PLAYING FIELD


I'd rather have OP racials than have no racials. I'm tired of ripping everything in this game in the name of balance. Who the hell plays THIS competitively? 0.0001% of the players?
Why would you remove something when it could just be disabled in competitive environment...
They fixed the op EMFH in legion. Racials add flavors so they must be kept.
20/05/2016 05:05Posted by Benjamin
They fixed the op EMFH in legion. Racials add flavors so they must be kept.


Removed the racial that made humans the must play class in pvp, and gave them a racial that will make them the must play class in pve instead.
20/05/2016 04:40Posted by Xrystal
20/05/2016 04:23Posted by Lswindrunner

JUST REMOVE RACIALS AND PUT EVERYONE ON THE SAME LEVEL PLAYING FIELD


I'd rather have OP racials than have no racials. I'm tired of ripping everything in this game in the name of balance.

I'd rather have balance, it's then about the PLAYER, not the class or race.
20/05/2016 05:15Posted by Lswindrunner

Removed the racial that made humans the must play class in pvp, and gave them a racial that will make them the must play class in pve instead.


Actually if that were true Pandarens would be very popular for PvE, which just isn't the case. Their Epicurean racial is far superior to this human racial.

That's 2% from secondary stat sources...

So, example:

2000 Mastery becomes 2040 Mastery, 2167.5 with food.

Not exactly game-breaking... Pandaren's food buff racial would be 2000 -> 2250.
20/05/2016 05:15Posted by Lswindrunner
20/05/2016 05:05Posted by Benjamin
They fixed the op EMFH in legion. Racials add flavors so they must be kept.


Removed the racial that made humans the must play class in pvp, and gave them a racial that will make them the must play class in pve instead.

It's not like it's a plain 2% increase to all secondary stats. It's a 2% to sources, so if you have 30% worth of crit you will get 0.6% increase. Which means it will first be OP if you can manage to get ridiculous secondary stats (50%+ in multiple secondary stats).
Envy >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy <<
is a sin >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins <<

Racial bonuses are RPG element. They have removed a huge amount of RPG elements such as property of different characteristics (now only a base one), resistance to various schools of magic, separate magic and physical bonuses and a lot of other stuff, and you're asking for more?
-> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3-WxWT1JX4g/UcqXsPaVQDI/AAAAAAAAATk/IsBc1MhYVIs/s1600/build.png
-> http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/bf/Fallout_4_perk_poster.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151005052434
It's 2%
I doubt that will make any significant difference.
20/05/2016 04:23Posted by Lswindrunner
The Human Spirit Increases Agility, Intellect, and Strength by 1% (old build). Human Racial. You gain 2% (new build) more of all secondary stats (Haste, Critical Strike, Mastery, Versatility) from all sources. Human Racial.

In contrast, as a belf I get to replace all of 15 energy every 1.5 mins (but have to press a key to get that oh so massive increase), 1% increase to crit, and a 1% decrease in arcane dmg (which is irrelavant as it's not a dps buff) . (The 2-3 sec silence is also more or less irrelavant outside of pvp and is also irrelavant for the purpose of this thread as well as it's not a dps buff).


Assume that a human has 12.5% haste, crit, versatility and mastery from all sources. If they get 2% more of each, they get 12.5%*0.02=0.25% more of each, or a total of 1% more secondary stats. Anything under an average of 12.5% on secondary stats, and human racial is effectively giving less then your racial. Anything over, and it gives effectively more.

If you look at your own stats from now, and consider that now is the latest patch in the expansion and thus the best gear is available, assuming these new racials would be already implemented, you would be better off being a belf then a human (you gain 9.19% crit, 11.65% multistrike, 10.33% versatility from all sources, while only mastery gain is higher then the 12.5% average required to make the human racial better, and even that is not by much as you gain 2.2% damage increase from 1% more mastery gained from mastery rating).

Not surprised you have no clue.
If they remove any more in WoW, it's going to have to remove its RPG name. There are so many things that have been removed that enhanced the RPG feeling, such as talent trees and multiple spells and abilities, all in the name of "balance". Instead of going back and think things over, they simply removed them.

While I understand their logic, I don't agree on their solution. And removing racial abilities, would be the final nail in the coffin in terms of this game going from RPG to Action oriented game.
Blood elf crying about racials, nice bait.
20/05/2016 09:29Posted by Eva
Blood elf crying about racials, nice bait.


Looking at armory, i'll give her the benefit of doubt. Op, any decent rogue playing arena in Legion will swap to belf.

Edit: I'd have to agree about removing racials though, but alas, cashing in for those faction changes must feel nice.
20/05/2016 09:23Posted by Bluetiful

Assume that a human has 12.5% haste, crit, versatility and mastery from all sources. If they get 2% more of each, they get 12.5%*0.02=0.25% more of each, or a total of 1% more secondary stats. Anything under an average of 12.5% on secondary stats, and human racial is effectively giving less then your racial. Anything over, and it gives effectively more.

If you look at your own stats from now, and consider that now is the latest patch in the expansion and thus the best gear is available, assuming these new racials would be already implemented, you would be better off being a belf then a human (you gain 9.19% crit, 11.65% multistrike, 10.33% versatility from all sources, while only mastery gain is higher then the 12.5% average required to make the human racial better, and even that is not by much as you gain 2.2% damage increase from 1% more mastery gained from mastery rating).

Not surprised you have no clue.


I have no clue what you're looking at, but I am sitting at 42% CC, 52% Mastery 12.5% Multistrike and low haste/vers. And it is all unbuffed. I would !@#$ing kill for 2% of secondary stats. I give you granted, it is the end of expansion and at the very beggining of new one the 1% might be equal or slightly better than 2% of additional secondary stats but gear evolves quickly and progression at the end of expansion is far superior to the beggining. Even if I unequip both my weapons and get to the BRF level of gear I'm at 40% CC, 43% Mastery and 6.5% mutlistrike. Still I'd kill for 2% of secondary stats.Tauren racial does not even come close to the dps value gain at any gear level and more so sucks at the start of new xpac. But hey, I forgot, Taurens for example have whooping Cultivation racial (15 more herbalism leves)! That is awesome racial. Not the kind of crap like 10% increased reputation gains, right? Not to mention that Taurens have freaking 2s aoe stun!...which takes 1.5s of casting... not the kind of crap like EMFH, right? EMFH is still invaluable in world PVP even though it got nerfed (or did it?) in regular PVP.

And that is just humans...Nelves had OP pvp racial for years as well as humans, I am wondering what they're getting as a compensation. It's no secret blizz has some kind of special feelings towards humans, holinka probably writes poems every week to his human "retardin" character about bubble-HS strat.
20/05/2016 11:03Posted by Tankarden
I have no clue what you're looking at, but I am sitting at 42% CC, 52% Mastery 12.5% Multistrike and low haste/vers.


Yes, you have very good gear, and thus something that provides a percentage from all sources would be better for you. BTW, you have 42% crit, but some of it is innate. You have 52% mastery, but some of it is innate - thus not gained from sources and won't be increased by the racial, just as they aren't increased by e.g. spec perks nowadays.

20/05/2016 11:03Posted by Tankarden
Even if I unequip both my weapons and get to the BRF level of gear I'm at 40% CC, 43% Mastery and 6.5% mutlistrike.


Your secondary stats don't go to BRF level of gear if you unequip the weapons. Part of the budget for weapons is weapon damage or spell power, depending on circumstance, and thus when you unequip them you drop a higher percentage of item levels then of secondary stats.

20/05/2016 11:03Posted by Tankarden
Tauren racial does not even come close to the dps value gain at any gear level and more so sucks at the start of new xpac


Quite right. Your racial gives you stamina, which is useless for dps, and 2% crit damage, which is not that great, and it's even worst if you happen to play a spec that doesn't prio crit. Then again, your racial nowadays doesn't come close to:
- orc
- panda
- draenei
- troll
to say the least.

20/05/2016 11:03Posted by Tankarden
But hey, I forgot, Taurens for example have whooping Cultivation racial (15 more herbalism leves)! That is awesome racial. Not the kind of crap like 10% increased reputation gains, right?


You are trying to be sarcastic, but I can tell you that for me 10% increased rep is just as (un)valuable as 15 herbing levels. This is merely a matter of perspective, of what you expect from the game. If your gameplay style revolves around grinding reputations, then humans are nice for you. If it revolves around collecting herbs, 10% rep will do nothing for you. If it revolves around neither of the above, then neither means anything, and believe it or not, there are people who aren't playing the game to be exalted with 100 factions, but for different reasons.

20/05/2016 11:03Posted by Tankarden
Not to mention that Taurens have freaking 2s aoe stun!...which takes 1.5s of casting... not the kind of crap like EMFH, right?


2 sec stun is not that bad, it can be used e.g. to get a free cyclone or other kind of CC on someone, to interrupt a vital cast, to stun a low hp rogue that is in evasion and execute her, and so on. Sure, it's limited, it's a racial ability after all, if it wasn't limited it would not be right (as the human racial was in the first season after they buffed the on use trinkets, or all throughout MOP, Cata or Wrath). Current EMFH is also not something to write home about, but this is contextual, due to how PvP trinkets are itemized, and how the medallion is.

Another thing is that pvp title cutoffs will be faction specific, so how a Horde racial matches with an Alliance racial is not really that important.

20/05/2016 11:03Posted by Tankarden
EMFH is still invaluable in world PVP even though it got nerfed (or did it?) in regular PVP.


Nobody cares about World PvP, and even if someone did care, the imbalances in world PvP start way before racials actually are factored in. Whining about fairness in world PvP can't possibly begin with racials.

In rated pvp, EMFH will be better then it currently is. It will fall in the same broad category of racials that provide extra CC breakers, currently the undead, dwarf and gnome racials, but it will be better then any of the above, because stuns are a more frequent type of CC then fear, silence and roots, and it is more potent (by some degree) to break a stun then it is to break any of the above. Still, this has nothing to do with Lswindrunner's whine, but only with your tantrum.

20/05/2016 11:03Posted by Tankarden
And that is just humans...Nelves had OP pvp racial for years as well as humans, I am wondering what they're getting as a compensation.


Nelves racial was only ever OP for druids (esp feral) and rogues, because of the extra openers. It was nice for other healing classes before the dwarf racial became the gold standard there, because if timed right, you could dodge a CC with it every two minutes. It wasn't OP though, and good luck to 98% of WoW players to actually use it properly in arenas. Not something to whine about though, as a matter of fact the dwarf racial is nowadays better for healers then the night elf racial ever was for them.

20/05/2016 11:03Posted by Tankarden
t's no secret blizz has some kind of special feelings towards humans


Might have something to do with the fact that 1 in 6 WoW players are human, and another 1 in 9 are blood elf, who knows. /shrug
I doubt it has anything to do with Holinka writing poems or anything ridiculous of that sort.
I'd personally take the most broken racials, overtune them even more and give them to the most under represented races such as pandaren.
Holly crap, 2% extra stats! Quickly, call the police!
why not just do it like this

dps get auto att nothing else

healers get a heal every thing skill for no mana and no cooldown

tanks gets a taunt all and go to sleep skill ;)
20/05/2016 12:10Posted by Ihatetotank
why not just do it like this

dps get auto att nothing else

healers get a heal every thing skill for no mana and no cooldown

tanks gets a taunt all and go to sleep skill ;)

poor casters.

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