Classes In WOW

General
Hello and apologies in advance because this is goin to be long.

First I must congratulate Blizzard on the design of most classes and specs in Legion, I believe that most of them are going in the right direction. One example is the Holy Paladin focus on positioning, with aura effects, close target healing and other effects that make them really distinct from other healing specs, personally I have no idea if i will like it, but even if I dont its alright because someone will love it for sure, and there will be some other healing spec for me. Instead of liking all the specs, there will be one that I will fall in love with, and that is a very good step in the right direction.
Another example is the survival Hunter, you made something really amazing with that which will feel awesome and new to Hunters, really great job there.

Now on to the bad stuff: Death Knights.
I love the concept of Death Knights and I have always played that class, unfortunately in all expansions they move a step closer in the wrong direction. The most important part of a Death Knight is the diseases and in Legion diseases will be all about empowering the character, but diseases should not be about empowering the user, they should be about depowering the victim.
When a person plays a Paladin they are expecting to empower themselves and their allies using the power of Light, on the contrary when they play a Death Knight they are expecting to spread disease and destruction on their victims, its not about killing them, its about making them suffer like a psycopath.
I understand that diseases being debuffs in terms of "gameplay" are harder to balance because they represent a burden to the enemy in pvp and in pve the bosses are just immune to some effects which effectively negates some abilities, and no one likes that, so you chose to go the "easy" way instead.

I think you can no longer go the "easy" way, if Blizzard wants to take back its players it needs to be at the vanguard of innovation, making things that no one else thought about, shaping video game design like it did so long ago, not just going "the easy way", that is something the world can no longer tolerate (pun totally intended). We (players) pay you enough for you to take risks, if no one can come up with new ideas to shape the video game industry then you need to fire some people and hire new ones. If you take risks its natural that you will make mistakes, but that is understandable, because you will also make awesome stuff, and we miss awesome stuff.

Continuing on the "easy way" train, I read somewhere that if it was today some classes would have less specs, because you cant make each spec feel completely different from the others, that is why you only made two specs for Demon Hunter. Again this is going the easy way, because by having less variables you can balance them more easily. This is something that you need to change, because players want more customization options, and being able to chose more specs is important, and I know it will upset the balance of the game, of course it will, but then again you need to be able to balance it, come up with new ideas to make the specs feel different and unique. I know this wont be easy, but if you are not capable of doing it, YOU NEED TO FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN. If you dont, the players will find someone who will give them what they want.

Examples of new specs could be an earth element tank shaman. Shamans were able to tank in classic, and currently there is the wind thematic for the enhacement spec, fire for elemental and water for restoration but there is no earth. Also i believe the "Ascend" thematic is awesome, so you could focus on that and make an earth ascend.
Other example is the Balance Druid, why not make two different spellcasters, one focused on moon magic and another focused on solar magic, with different rotation, spells and mechanics.
You could also make a necromancer mage, it would be different from the warlock because a warlock uses demons, while a necromancer uses undead and its all about blurring the lines between life and death. In terms of gameplay maybe it would not be different enough from demonology warlock, but I dont think that is an issue. because it would appeal to those players who like mage. but also like things from warlock, so this would be a mage, but with a twist with some warlock mechanics and their own.
How about a warrior spec. We have the orc warrior archetype with fury, and we have the more "trained" soldier with the arms spec, but we are missing the sentinel or spell weaver type from the elven warrior, or even the warden like we had in warcraft (maybe this is more a rogue spec that warrior)
Finally we could have a dps Holy Priest spec, it could even be called "Inquisitor".

These are just some ideas that I thought of, some maybe are impossible to make, or could be just wrong, but this is my contribution to the discussion, and that is the important, to start a discussion and talk about what we want, because they value our opinion, and they need the players to speak up and call them out when they make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, even a colossal company, what is important is that we learn from them and understand when we are wrong.

PS: the argument to make only two Demon Hunter specs because anything else wouldnt feel like Illidan is not valid because the druid spec has the cat form, and that didnt exist in warcraft 3. Neither Malfurion nor Cenarius had a cat form, or any other druid shown there, but it was a nice addition that players liked. Illidan was the first demon hunter, but he is no longer the only one, Demon Hunters as a class can develop itself, other Hunters can discover new ways of using its powers.
I completely agree in ur first 2 lines.. Cuz i read some of it and then i got scared of all the texts.. Reminds me of school :P
23/05/2016 17:54Posted by Darkritz
Another example is the survival Hunter, you made something really amazing with that which will feel awesome and new to Hunters, really great job there.

Original idea for surv was mele.Classic Wow, Survival tree untill hunter patch, not single ranged spell.Stun, daze, cc, mele abilities and final talent lacerate dot.Thats nothing new, they just pulled it out from void.
edit:
1 info pls, in legion frost dk will be only 1h dual?No more choice betwen dual and 2h?
Feels like a long-winded give DH an additional spec post.
i think necromancer should rather be a "glyphed demo" lock, where instead of imps, you summon skeletons, your spells have different names etc. and soul shards feel like a decent resource for necromancy. balnce should not be split up, the whole point of the spec was it had a solar and a lunar rotation, witch you had to be able to swich any time (#wotlk). And the sentinel seems -for me- a rather rogue-related thing.
In my opinion many of this could be achieved without adding more specs, instead making talents, and glyphs.
23/05/2016 18:47Posted by Chîef
23/05/2016 17:54Posted by Darkritz
Another example is the survival Hunter, you made something really amazing with that which will feel awesome and new to Hunters, really great job there.

Original idea for surv was mele.Classic Wow, Survival tree untill hunter patch, not single ranged spell.Stun, daze, cc, mele abilities and final talent lacerate dot.Thats nothing new, they just pulled it out from void.
edit:
1 info pls, in legion frost dk will be only 1h dual?No more choice betwen dual and 2h?
They changed their mind, because doing this would violate the integrity of the class (basis - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17610601495?page=1#12 ), but this negative tail of failed ideas pursued SV-hunters through all vanilla (>> mmo-champion.com/threads/1094236-vanilla-1-0-talents-then-and-now?p=15831005&viewfull=1#post15831005 <<). Hunters started to move in the right direction in BC and in LK were formed precisely in form which they were to remain until today.

Legion solution was quite simple (with hunters):
- I - survival >> qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d4cd604aed6a86162944428d36e47c3a?convert_to_webp=true << - bow,
- II - mm >> appheroics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/game-of-war-troops.jpg << - gun,
- III - bistmastery >> thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/simon-morris-image-of-a-mongolian-eagle-hunter-in-the-altai-mountains-of-western-mongolia.jpg << - crossbow.
If someone disagrees with me, I'll understand. But main problem is in linked to artifacts stuff. I hate them at least because of one simple reason - they limits imagination (RP) and gameplay ( http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17612321151 + talents, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747655583 ). This is new feature of "Legion", which is addition limitations: everywhere in every place of the game - talents, specialization, classes and even visual part (I mean character models). Walls, walls, walls. I see them everywhere (even in PvP http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747735504?page=2#26 ), they are mirrored, which makes it difficult to detect them, but it's walls and boundaries detection will take you some time.

So, what are you talking about is not a "hunter" - a grenadier with bayonets, bombs, cannons and other crap. He does not need a pet, he is an engineer. Simple and original solution would be trite to take another (new) class that could accommodate all their new imagination. Let's call this class conditionally "Tinker" (it's not in classical sense, more like this >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht <<). 3 specializations: chemistry (debuffs: acid, smoke bombs (treatment, reduction / addition of the parameters, the restriction of / empowerment, and so on)), engineering (grenades, missiles, cannons, m.b. robots?), throwing / shooting (guns, harpoons, whip, nets, bleeding) - it's if in general terms. Here you can be pirate, grenadier, cowboy and even ordinary engineer, who are asked for a long time, , but remove this !@#$ty fantasy from rogues and hunters (it doesn't fit there).

Here is my "canon" sv-hunter (>> imgur.com/LSVb4fM.jpg <<; s*t, I had a 15" monitor back then, and it's still alive in my parents house), here is my "canon" combat rogue (>> imgur.com/0w31om9.jpg <<). But charm of the old talent-trees/approach to classes was just that they could withstand ( http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17611501090?page=2#35 ) the most unusual combinations ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742794899 ), but "new fancy" yet so narrow that consciousness is necessary to be huddle so much for fitting into this framework http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748736095#post-12

Leave hunters with their main fantasy: range weapons, pets, traps - that's all (I don't mind if they return melee attacks+weapons+dead zone for shooting, but main features should stay the same); rogues with their main fantasy - poisons, stealth, agile blade-fighter (blader) (if you don't have enough imagination for inventing abilities - here you go >> ninjaencyclopedia.com/weapon/ <<); shamans - tatems, causing injury/treatment element's magic http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748075254 (they all and everyone spec should be able to have this stuff because it's the foundation). And just as with all other (auras/seals, stances, shapeshifting) classes... but there is no need to forcibly shove all this walls.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745544772

Remember vanilla? But this is the only thing for which it's now criticized - limiting class's capabilities during encounters. And you want the same problems in Legion? This is despite the fact that you are not able to balance even stuff that already was cut off. You will have a real problems, and don't speak then, that you were not warned. Go back to the LK (>> wotlk.openwow.com/talent <<, you have done almost all classes more or less useful (without losing in the complexity of the encounters, without breaking fantasy and foundation of classes and cutting game's RPG part - stats and characteristics), and therefore they can be considered equally sapid) stuff, talent trees can be wider (they can even sometimes overlap), you don't need to fear large number of talent points, you need to imagine, to invent, to add, not cut all the roots http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17611491478?page=1#11

ps. We had a choice, a fantasy was meaningful, but now there will be neither one nor the other. And you didn't listen to anyone... again.
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