I demand free items for doing nothing

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04/10/2016 16:07Posted by Írida
04/10/2016 15:43Posted by Ignasius
I don't understand why people are saying this. It has always been rng when I used to run BWL with my guild back in the day I would pray for my tier 2 pieces to drop and most weeks they wouldn't.


That system was !@#$ty and it was scrapped in TBC in favour of tokens usable by multiple classes. And the reason tokens were introduced was of course to give players an RNG protection of sorts. Like, the thing we need now.


I could be wrong, but as I remember it, the tokens were introduced at the same time the instances and raids were nerfed big time, so that the player base that didn't had time/skill or both to progress could get into end game raids and experience that.
Which is a good way of doing it, introducing it late in the game, so the ones that wants a challenge can get that and the rest can get it later as they nerf the game a couple of months before release of new xpac and then start all over again with no tokens.
04/10/2016 15:08Posted by Imbalanxd
the entitled players of today


I swear you have been copy pasting this !@#$ing sentence into every thread addressing this issue.
04/10/2016 16:07Posted by Imbalanxd

My curve, is m4+ as of this moment and the "marvelous pug HC raids". I am not even going to bother explaining to you how commonly armory stuck (yes totally the last week i have done only heroics dungeons), I am showing you how much "titan forged" means. And if you bother to exit your comfort zone, you will notice how much devalued your work is outside of raiding. Hence the taunt to explain to me and to everyone else the following thing : "How many god damned heroics/mythics/m+ and raids on normal/hc/mythic" must we do before we start getting some fake bis items? I


Clear heroic EN every week, maybe Nythendra mythic, and hit at least 5 or 6 +6s a week. That is what you need to do. Then you will deserve an iLvl of 865.
Until then, stop wanting items for free.
That is what you need to do.

The average item level on Exorsus when they downed mythic Xavius was 868. Do you think you deserve anything remotely close to that?


Yes. Since they cheated. Now get out of my topic.
04/10/2016 15:01Posted by Synéa
Well let's see how many reply just looking at the title.

You know, I'm sick and tired of anyone who wants a change to the current status quo of massive RNG being accused of wanting free gear for no work.
Apparently, if I'm unsatisfied with the fact that I can spam mythic+ dungeons all day and get absolutely nothing of worth, then at the end of the week open my chest and get a useless piece of gear with bad stats and would like some remedy to that, this means I want something for "free".

Ignoring, of course, that I'd still do the dungeons, the mythic+, the raids, the WQs, whatever. Just with a little more control or hope for what I need in order to progress.
But no, that's "free". That's "welfare". It seems that a sizable amount of people here have no understanding of what a free handout truly is, and it is always irritating to have to sift through their meaningless, arrogant replies on the matter.

TL;DR: Nobody wants free stuff. We want a bit of fairness and less RNG.
If less RNG means welfare to you.. well, I'm not sure what's going on with your life. But it can't be very pleasant.


another no lifer. get a grip and go outside.
04/10/2016 16:27Posted by Sooky
04/10/2016 15:01Posted by Synéa
Well let's see how many reply just looking at the title.

You know, I'm sick and tired of anyone who wants a change to the current status quo of massive RNG being accused of wanting free gear for no work.
Apparently, if I'm unsatisfied with the fact that I can spam mythic+ dungeons all day and get absolutely nothing of worth, then at the end of the week open my chest and get a useless piece of gear with bad stats and would like some remedy to that, this means I want something for "free".

Ignoring, of course, that I'd still do the dungeons, the mythic+, the raids, the WQs, whatever. Just with a little more control or hope for what I need in order to progress.
But no, that's "free". That's "welfare". It seems that a sizable amount of people here have no understanding of what a free handout truly is, and it is always irritating to have to sift through their meaningless, arrogant replies on the matter.

TL;DR: Nobody wants free stuff. We want a bit of fairness and less RNG.
If less RNG means welfare to you.. well, I'm not sure what's going on with your life. But it can't be very pleasant.


another no lifer. get a grip and go outside.


It's a complaint/opinion thread just like any other, why don't you go post your reply on all the other threads?

No lifer, get a grip and go outside.

Gimp.
04/10/2016 16:27Posted by Sooky
another no lifer. get a grip and go outside.


You're perfectly welcome to go outside yourself instead of posting this from your parent's basement.
Unless they locked the door in order to not deal with their mistake.
Finaly, I'm not the only one who sees the tumorous mentality of people who claim about others wanting free stuff while the accused said they want to work to a reward, not a lottery ticket.

Of course, getting completely rid of RNG doesn't make it any better. There should be a mix. It's nice to hit the jackpot with luck and get the item you were longing for, but if you spend a lot of time and effort, you'd at least expect to get something good out of it that was worth the time and effort.

No one, and I repeat, no one (unless you can prove it), who said about RNG being a bother, has mentioned that they want everything for free, handed over on a platter with a huge ceremony going on by sitting in Dalaran picking their noses or what else ever.

Whoever thinks like this is just mentally challenged and should look for professional help. I'm sure there's something for that and you won't have to feel ashamed about it. Everyone will understand and accept it. Don't worry.

There will be people who praise the Rigged-- I mean, Random Number Generator, and there will be people who prefer working towards something that's not behind a lottery ticket, as well as people who like a mix.

------

TL;DR :
People who are bothered by RNG just want to work for a towards a reward worth of their time and effort and not handed over to them while being AFK in the middle of nowhere.

TL:DR 2:
My daddy beats your daddy.
Take away all legendaries from people with a certain (low) ilvl :D
Lock out for legendary at least 2 weeks and not get 3 in a few days.
Result: more fair,more fair to the word legendary, But i guess commercialy seen i understand if lots of newbies subscribe with the thought they can be legendary without effort.
04/10/2016 16:30Posted by Leighdan
Of course, getting completely rid of RNG doesn't make it any better. There should be a mix. It's nice to hit the jackpot with luck and get the item you were longing for, but if you spend a lot of time and effort, you'd at least expect to get something good out of it that was worth the time and effort.


Exactly. Who has even advocated to an end to RNG anyway? A good mix is what's important.

TL:DR 2:
My daddy beats your daddy.


My dad's giant robot would beat up your dad's giant robot.
04/10/2016 16:30Posted by Leighdan
People who are bothered by RNG just want to work for a towards a reward worth of their time and effort and not handed over to them while being AFK in the middle of nowhere.


Funny thing is that WoW used to be like that. The gear was in dungeons and raids and the only way of getting it was that way. Though people started complaining that it was too hard to get gear and that you had to commit too much time to get somewhere in WoW and that it was too fixated on raids. The result to this was first of expanding the LFD tool to introduce the LFR tool, try to work tokens more into the mix, try some reputation vendor tricks to the mix and lastly, the items having a chance of upgrading through RNG.

And now people complain there are too much RNG, and they want to work towards a goal and have a high chance of getting that item they want. In other words, how WoW used to be.

I don't mind that they remove gear from world quests and "hide" them once more behind raids, so that you have to work towards getting it, and that they don't upgrade to higher ilevel gear. But I can also guarantee that most people would mind that gear is once more for "the special few", that is those who raid. They could also make it so you could craft gear much in the same way as in Guild wars 2, where the ascended gear is only something you can craft, and have it require hours of work and dedication to get the ingredients to make one item. But then what, what would people say then? That gear is too hard to come by.

Bottom line is that there will always be complaining surrounding the gear and RNG. It's either too much or too little.
There is clearly a problem when us players have gear rain upon us in droves, but all of it are complete and utter garbage. I get so much gear raining out of the sky everytime i log in and do content, 1 drop every other mythic+ run. The problem is... I dont want any of that gear. I'd rather have an empty chest 10 runs in a row and then on the 11th run get a really good USEFUL item for my spec.

Instead of having 6 garbage items drop in 11 runs which will only serve to eat bank slots, just incase. You never know you might have to padd your item level some day to get group invites?
04/10/2016 16:45Posted by Melthazina
04/10/2016 16:30Posted by Leighdan
People who are bothered by RNG just want to work for a towards a reward worth of their time and effort and not handed over to them while being AFK in the middle of nowhere.


Funny thing is that WoW used to be like that. The gear was in dungeons and raids and the only way of getting it was that way. Though people started complaining that it was too hard to get gear and that you had to commit too much time to get somewhere in WoW and that it was too fixated on raids. The result to this was first of expanding the LFD tool to introduce the LFR tool, try to work tokens more into the mix, try some reputation vendor tricks to the mix and lastly, the items having a chance of upgrading through RNG.

And now people complain there are too much RNG, and they want to work towards a goal and have a high chance of getting that item they want. In other words, how WoW used to be.

I don't mind that they remove gear from world quests and "hide" them once more behind raids, so that you have to work towards getting it, and that they don't upgrade to higher ilevel gear. But I can also guarantee that most people would mind that gear is once more for "the special few", that is those who raid. They could also make it so you could craft gear much in the same way as in Guild wars 2, where the ascended gear is only something you can craft, and have it require hours of work and dedication to get the ingredients to make one item. But then what, what would people say then? That gear is too hard to come by.

Bottom line is that there will always be complaining surrounding the gear and RNG. It's either too much or too little.


And none of that changes the fact that right now it's too little.

Also, why must it be this that or the other?
Why can't hard work come from multiple sources?

Let's say, for the sake of argument and simplicity, that a good 865 item of your choice costs 100 tokens.
A mythic+ could reward 10 tokens per run.
A regular mythic could reward 5 tokens.
An hc 1 token.
Completing 10 WQs could reward 1 token.
Completing a PvP bg could reward 1 token.

And so on. Don't take my example as something in any way balanced. I'm just giving an example of a system in which multiple ways to play can be used to work towards an effective reward.
Things like WQs requiring more time to reach the same reward because they are "easier".
https://imgur.com/gallery/dmhHw1F

The standard level of argument that comes from the usual folks on WoW's forums in a nutshell.
04/10/2016 16:27Posted by Synéa
04/10/2016 16:07Posted by Imbalanxd

The average item level on Exorsus when they downed mythic Xavius was 868. Do you think you deserve anything remotely close to that?


Yes. Since they cheated. Now get out of my topic.


Cheated ? Did I miss something ?
04/10/2016 17:20Posted by Leweth
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Yes. Since they cheated. Now get out of my topic.


Cheated ? Did I miss something ?


The notion the since Wrath world first has lost a lot of its charm due various reasons, including the beta, a lot of alts, guilds merges and so on.
While I certainly don't think that the current status of guild first is "cheated" (E-sport level of gameplay required), I can understand why so many players don't see it as legit anymore.

PS: Also what heilong said, but due to "not sure if this was the exact case", did not mention the legendary item and ursoc trinket.
04/10/2016 17:20Posted by Leweth
04/10/2016 16:27Posted by Synéa
...

Yes. Since they cheated. Now get out of my topic.


Cheated ? Did I miss something ?


Either they mean the cheesing of the t18 set on Ursoc Mythic which one BRM did (which led to the set being nerfed to the ground) or they mean how they multiboxed like 5 identical toons at once in order to have 5 times the chance of a legendary drop then mained the one that got the legendary items/most legendary items/right legendary items etc. Then there was the bug that cause legendary items to drop more if you already had one exasperating the entire issue even more.

Not sure which one it is, but this is the kinda crap that has been making it to live for a long time when it shouldn't.
04/10/2016 16:54Posted by Synéa
Let's say, for the sake of argument and simplicity, that a good 865 item of your choice costs 100 tokens.
A mythic+ could reward 10 tokens per run.
A regular mythic could reward 5 tokens.
An hc 1 token.
Completing 10 WQs could reward 1 token.
Completing a PvP bg could reward 1 token.


865 is HC Raid quality; can you not see how it would negatively affect raiding progression if players could consistently grind even 1 item per week at 865 from tasks like Heroics/Mythics/WQs? Normal would be trivialised for all those guilds that don't already sweep through it in a week and then people would just get stuck at 865 rather than 855.

Also, what if the badge gear doesn't have the stats you want? I know from your posts that you'd not want an 865 helm packed with Mastery but my Arms Warrior alt would love it. Do Blizz have to offer all possible combinations of 50/50 split secondary combos for this to work?
04/10/2016 16:54Posted by Synéa

And none of that changes the fact that right now it's too little.

Also, why must it be this that or the other?
Why can't hard work come from multiple sources?

Let's say, for the sake of argument and simplicity, that a good 865 item of your choice costs 100 tokens.
A mythic+ could reward 10 tokens per run.
A regular mythic could reward 5 tokens.
An hc 1 token.
Completing 10 WQs could reward 1 token.
Completing a PvP bg could reward 1 token.

And so on. Don't take my example as something in any way balanced. I'm just giving an example of a system in which multiple ways to play can be used to work towards an effective reward.
Things like WQs requiring more time to reach the same reward because they are "easier".


Because it undermines the raid as end-game if you can get the same item without going through raid. And balancing it out so that getting that gear is as hard as going through a raid, is a balance you'll never find. Per example, doing 100 heroic dungeons to get 100 tokens is a whole lot easier than doing 10 mythic+, just to build on your example.

In per example The elder scrolls: Online, most of the "best" gear you can get is crafted. The "end content" is trials, but what's the incentive of doing trials? You can get gear, but you don't need it. You can try to beat the clock, but that's rather boring after a few trials.

Thing is, gear is also a very high incentive to raid, and not only is it fun to defeat the bosses but also see what loot drops and hoping you get. So any system set in place can't undermine the incentive of going through the raids. And you're never going to make it "as difficult" to repeat the content 100 times as it is to kill the boss in a raid, where you require to apply tactics and cooperation with the group to manage.
04/10/2016 17:32Posted by Irongym
865 is HC Raid quality; can you not see how it would negatively affect raiding progression if players could consistently grind even 1 item per week at 865 from tasks like Heroics/Mythics/WQs? Normal would be trivialised for all those guilds that don't already sweep through it in a week and then people would just get stuck at 865 rather than 855.


No it would not be trivialised at all. Because hc raiding would still get these items faster.
I am sick and tired of this all or nothing attitude, that we have to continually butter hardcore raiders up with exclusive access to the best gear, and the prettiest gear, and the titles, and the mounts.
How many bribes do these people need?

Also, what if the badge gear doesn't have the stats you want? I know from your posts that you'd not want an 865 helm packed with Mastery but my Arms Warrior alt would love it. Do Blizz have to offer all possible combinations of 50/50 split secondary combos for this to work?


Yes. Why not?
04/10/2016 17:32Posted by Irongym

865 is HC Raid quality; can you not see how it would negatively affect raiding progression


How?

What does it matter to you if, for example, I got my 865 after months of grinding out easier content earning hundreds of tokens, as opposed to you getting a lucky drop on harder content?

How does how I got my gear make one iota of difference to your raid progression? It doesn't.

One could logically argue I have consistently put MORE effort in to get that gear than someone who just got a lucky RNG loot roll after a handful of runs.

And as we keep on hearing effort should be rewarded; problem is most people banging that "pro RNG" drum aren't nearly clever enough to understand that lucky RNG loot rolls have absolutely NOTHING to do with rewarding effort.

All The Best

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