I demand free items for doing nothing

General
Prev 1 5 6 7 Next
04/10/2016 15:01Posted by Synéa
We want a bit of fairness and less RNG.

I didn't read all the replies, but the token system along with reforging in the past was a small compensation for RNG. You still spammed the dungeons, farmed them on your main, on your alts, because it gave you tokens that you could use for buying an item for upgrade or upgrade your current gear.

Token system could/should still exist, especially with the amount of RNG present in Legion (guess multistrike was too much RNG on the top of RNG, that's why they removed it - JK).

With mythic levels up to 15, the amount of tokens dropped could increase or the higher level you complete, the higher ilvl token item you could purchase. There is fantasy in that, testing and tuning required, but it would be a solid way to get upgrades for your efforts.
I just want to gauge the general feeling here. Could people post two numbers for me.
The first being their current equipped iLvl in their mainspec, and the second being the equipped iLvl they would like, or think they deserve.

I'll go first.

853
850
I thought that might shut people up.

Its a bit too hard not to sound entitled when someone asks you to put a number to it.
I have a hard time to see a correlation between what you're asking for Imbalanxd and the thread. I have per example 857 ilevel currently, only 2 items are from world quest upgrades, the rest are mythic farmed and mythic+ farmed.
Easy for you to say you have a legendary
05/10/2016 15:16Posted by Imbalanxd
I thought that might shut people up.

Its a bit too hard not to sound entitled when someone asks you to put a number to it.


I cant tell if youre trolling or not
This is just a crazy idea but could you not do the dungeons because you enjoy them and if something drops = yippee?

People wanting to know exactly how much time it will take to farm some new shiny is just crazy. They'll get it, show it off for a month and then quit due to a lack of content.

Play the game because you enjoy it. Talk to your guildies and maybe even other people on your server. Do things because somebody randomly suggests it and it's fun, not just because you need to farm in for 5 years for a drop. it's this curse of people constantly wishing for gear over fun that makes others hark back to vanilla.
06/10/2016 12:27Posted by Moistella
This is just a crazy idea but could you not do the dungeons because you enjoy them and if something drops = yippee?

People wanting to know exactly how much time it will take to farm some new shiny is just crazy. They'll get it, show it off for a month and then quit due to a lack of content.

Play the game because you enjoy it. Talk to your guildies and maybe even other people on your server. Do things because somebody randomly suggests it and it's fun, not just because you need to farm in for 5 years for a drop. it's this curse of people constantly wishing for gear over fun that makes others hark back to vanilla.


More like it's this course of Blizzard imposing this as the sole way to progress and see new content that makes people constantly wish for gear over fun.
05/10/2016 15:21Posted by Melthazina
I have a hard time to see a correlation between what you're asking for Imbalanxd and the thread. I have per example 857 ilevel currently, only 2 items are from world quest upgrades, the rest are mythic farmed and mythic+ farmed.


Here's an observation of mine. Maybe its wrong, maybe its right.

When you ask someone a question, an innocuous question, one that doesn't seek any personal or compromising information, and they choose to rather question why you are asking the question, rather than simply answering it, they aren't happy with the answer.
06/10/2016 12:27Posted by Moistella
This is just a crazy idea but could you not do the dungeons because you enjoy them and if something drops = yippee?

People wanting to know exactly how much time it will take to farm some new shiny is just crazy. They'll get it, show it off for a month and then quit due to a lack of content.

Play the game because you enjoy it. Talk to your guildies and maybe even other people on your server. Do things because somebody randomly suggests it and it's fun, not just because you need to farm in for 5 years for a drop. it's this curse of people constantly wishing for gear over fun that makes others hark back to vanilla.


Progression/loot is part of the enjoyment of an RPG for most people.
Its an effort reward system that keeps you playing because you know you're working towards something and will eventually obtain it.

I've enjoyed Legion so far but the loot RNG is too much. I'm no pro player by any means so I can't imagine how people who play loads more and still don't win the RNG lottery feel.

At the moment I'm aiming for trinkets to progress into mythic and mythic + with but with the current system I have never seen any of the ones I'd be happy with drop ever for anyone in any of my groups. The sample size on this is now too large to simply be bad luck. And if what I want ever does drop for me there is then a huge difference between whether or not it titanforges. And as for the legendary belt I want I may as well forget it exists as there is zero way whatsoever to work towards it.

I don't expect handouts. I want to put the effort in to get the rewards out. Putting in little effort for rewards is not a good system but neither is putting in a lot of effort for zero rewards and those rewards having too many layers of luck attached to them.

Sure I could just try and get into mythics and suck at them to get my ilvl up but i'd rather progress there properly. But with heroics locking out and targeted loot never dropping that isn't going to happen.

The current world quest mythic plus multi RNG style is blatantly a style adopted from Diablo. That isn't a critisism in and of its self but the way it has been implemented is too much. Remember in Diablo there are legendary upgrades in the cube and Kadala for targeting specific loot. A cube recipe to upgrade loot to ancient (equivalent of titan forge). An enchantress that allows you to completely re-roll a stat on an item. Wow has non of this its pure RNG. If people had a way through playing the game to upgrade to titanforge, add sockets and re-forging came back and drop rates weren't so poor I guarantee there would be a lot less QQ.
04/10/2016 15:30Posted by Imbalanxd
04/10/2016 15:21Posted by Synéa

I've done tons of mythic+ and never once gotten a good titanforged item. Those that have been have been a bad mastery helmet I wear because I have nothing else, ANOTHER mastery helmet I gave to a friend and a mastery ring. You may sense a theme here. In case you're not aware mastery is useless to me.


Let it be known. This is a player with 5 titanforged items and a legendary.
And he wants more.
Not for free though, mind you.


I know, right. It's amusing... "I want more gear! I want the perfect stats! this game is an abomination!"

I will agree with the OP on one thing, RNG stats suck, yeah. 880 bracers with mastery on them (my worst stat) comes to mind...
Diablo loot system in WoW is an abomination, especially without any customising like reforging, the least amount of enchants and gem slots ever seen in the game etc.

If I would want to play a slot machine, I would be playing Diablo. But I deinstalled this game after 2 weeks because it was just pointless. Now, we have the same insanity in WoW.

What was wrong with going to a boss, and KNOWING EXACTLY what he can drop?
i dont think people realize wow has always been largely rng

or they started playing in legion, thats always a possibility
06/10/2016 16:54Posted by Lansire
i dont think people realize wow has always been largely rng

or they started playing in legion, thats always a possibility


It was, but never to this stage.

Every boss had a loot table, you knew what you were getting so you'd grind out what you need.

Now? You might get what you need, but it could come with the wrong stats or be a lower iLevel than you need because it didn't Titanforge.
06/10/2016 16:54Posted by Lansire
i dont think people realize wow has always been largely rng

or they started playing in legion, thats always a possibility


Vanilla rng was better. Everything in vanilla was better stoopid...
06/10/2016 18:10Posted by Windocil
06/10/2016 16:54Posted by Lansire
i dont think people realize wow has always been largely rng

or they started playing in legion, thats always a possibility


It was, but never to this stage.

Every boss had a loot table, you knew what you were getting so you'd grind out what you need.

Now? You might get what you need, but it could come with the wrong stats or be a lower iLevel than you need because it didn't Titanforge.


The wrong stats only apply to crafted items, items in raids and dungeons are fixed on stats.

When it comes to "wrong stats", it's generally so that higher ilevel = better item as long as there's main stat. Very few classes have weights higher on secondary stats than on primary stats. Rings and necks are without main stats though, so there the ilevel doesn't really count too much.

That being said, many people think that a gear item needs to have their perfect set of stats, else it's useless. It's a very "absolute" type of thinking. As with older expansions in WoW, you always ran the risk of getting items that dropped from higher end raids than the items you had, but had the wrong combination of secondary stats, making it a crunching game if it was an upgrade or not.

I honestly don't see that much of a problem. The stats are fixed and you can see if something drops that have good stats for you, they may upgrade or they may not, and you know which source they drop from. The only item that isn't fixed on sources but have multiple ways of dropping, is the legendary. Though one thing about the upgrade system no one has mentioned, is that you can do content that doesn't have upgrades for you, but get one anyway because it upgraded. Be it world quest or mythics. On several occasions I've had gear drop that wasn't "good" for me, but upgraded and became an upgrade.

If I'm brutally honest here, I think people's irritation over not having a legendary clouds things up a bit. There's very little difference in Legion compared to other expansions with the exception of a possibility to upgrade gear, and get a legendary. Else the RNG is more or less the same.
06/10/2016 18:23Posted by Dalkisha
06/10/2016 18:10Posted by Windocil
...

It was, but never to this stage.

Every boss had a loot table, you knew what you were getting so you'd grind out what you need.

Now? You might get what you need, but it could come with the wrong stats or be a lower iLevel than you need because it didn't Titanforge.


The wrong stats only apply to crafted items, items in raids and dungeons are fixed on stats.

When it comes to "wrong stats", it's generally so that higher ilevel = better item as long as there's main stat. Very few classes have weights higher on secondary stats than on primary stats. Rings and necks are without main stats though, so there the ilevel doesn't really count too much.

That being said, many people think that a gear item needs to have their perfect set of stats, else it's useless. It's a very "absolute" type of thinking. As with older expansions in WoW, you always ran the risk of getting items that dropped from higher end raids than the items you had, but had the wrong combination of secondary stats, making it a crunching game if it was an upgrade or not.

I honestly don't see that much of a problem. The stats are fixed and you can see if something drops that have good stats for you, they may upgrade or they may not, and you know which source they drop from. The only item that isn't fixed on sources but have multiple ways of dropping, is the legendary. Though one thing about the upgrade system no one has mentioned, is that you can do content that doesn't have upgrades for you, but get one anyway because it upgraded. Be it world quest or mythics. On several occasions I've had gear drop that wasn't "good" for me, but upgraded and became an upgrade.

If I'm brutally honest here, I think people's irritation over not having a legendary clouds things up a bit. There's very little difference in Legion compared to other expansions with the exception of a possibility to upgrade gear, and get a legendary. Else the RNG is more or less the same.


Look through Atlas Loot. A lot of the loot dungeon drops outside tier drops from EN are set out like this:

1. Guaranteed Main stats
2. Guaranteed secondary stat
3. Random secondary stat
4. Minimum iLevel
5. Gem Slot Y/N if applicable

So you've got

A roll to get it to drop for you
A roll to determine the iLevel
A roll on the randomised secondary stat
A roll to determine if it has a gem slot if applicable

So not only do you need it to drop and you get it, you need it to roll at an iLevel that's an upgrade and a secondary stat that's good to usable for your class you then need to roll a gem slot on it too.

Now there are ways they can rectify this.

1. Decrease the gap threshold of roll in iLevel so it's more clearly determined and thus better to target upgrades

2. Change the pool of rolled secondary stats depending on class, so say for a Lock it can roll Crit, Mastery or Haste. Versatility is removed from that roll completely.

3. Add a way to add Gem Slots, be it a recipe from Gem crafters that they sell like enchants or a vendor that does it for Oblitarium /Blood of Sargeras

That would solve a great deal of the RNG disparity in drops and make the system feel much more rewarding.
Now itemlevel is what matters. I need to equip higher itemlevel stuff but with useless stats if I want some pugs.
06/10/2016 19:00Posted by Imposibilium
Now itemlevel is what matters. I need to equip higher itemlevel stuff but with useless stats if I want some pugs.


It matters, like you said, if you want a better chance invites. That doesn't mean you have to keep wearing the gear after you've been invited. So, keep your stuff around and juggle between gears, one for the invites and the other for the actual fighting.
06/10/2016 18:54Posted by Windocil
Look through Atlas Loot. A lot of the loot dungeon drops outside tier drops from EN are set out like this:

1. Guaranteed Main stats
2. Guaranteed secondary stat
3. Random secondary stat
4. Minimum iLevel
5. Gem Slot Y/N if applicable

So you've got

A roll to get it to drop for you
A roll to determine the iLevel
A roll on the randomised secondary stat
A roll to determine if it has a gem slot if applicable

So not only do you need it to drop and you get it, you need it to roll at an iLevel that's an upgrade and a secondary stat that's good to usable for your class you then need to roll a gem slot on it too.

Now there are ways they can rectify this.

1. Decrease the gap threshold of roll in iLevel so it's more clearly determined and thus better to target upgrades

2. Change the pool of rolled secondary stats depending on class, so say for a Lock it can roll Crit, Mastery or Haste. Versatility is removed from that roll completely.

3. Add a way to add Gem Slots, be it a recipe from Gem crafters that they sell like enchants or a vendor that does it for Oblitarium /Blood of Sargeras

That would solve a great deal of the RNG disparity in drops and make the system feel much more rewarding.


It's a fixed main stat (not on neck and rings) and secondary stats with a chance of tertiary stats (like sockets or any of the tertiary stats like avoidance or leech)

So the RNG is basically an upgrade on the item. So you can go on any dungeons or raid and see what stats that's on the items of secondary stats, and have a chance on getting tertiary stats and upgrade. That's the RNG. There's no RNG on main and secondary stats.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum