Early patchnote confusion / EU/US forum merge

General
25/10/2016 14:56Posted by Someoneelse
25/10/2016 13:12Posted by Shammoz
"Hey, my feral druid still has Healing Touch, shouldn't it have changed to Regrowth?" (or other changes not yet on EU, you get my point).


Yeah, I can't see any feral complaining about that. :)


I'm glad my vieled complaint about it didn't get noticed :P
(My feral druid has a sadface right now)
25/10/2016 15:34Posted by Shammoz
I'm glad my vieled complaint about it didn't get noticed :P
(My feral druid has a sadface right now)

Could be worse, you could be an Elemental Shaman, oh wait.
25/10/2016 14:28Posted by Damîanos
Dear @OP
The blue had a point on locking the previous one.

I'm one of those who wants to learn the patch notes when they become available , that is why i follow (visit often) sites likes mmo-champion and the official US Blizzards site , that being said , i am too quite old on the forums and always but always take a look on what @Shammoz have to say. About 95% he/she is correct.

If patch notes was posted on EU a day earlier , many players will be confused.
I've caught my self as well confused some times , because i have saw the patch notes and then , for some what ever reason, was trying to find the changes , although in EU , the changes came 1 day later.

Now for the merging of US and EU , no , just no ! Personally i don't have any problem about it , but there will be again confusion , US is and there always be 1 day ahead of us. That is how world works :) We can't change that. Imagine now a 15 year old boy/girl that reads the patch notes 1 day earlier and try to find the changes (spells / abilities etc etc ) . The CS and TS forums will be drown by posts of confused players !

Last , i would like to recommend you to change the title of this thread mostly for you not get into the ban community.

With Regards and always in kind attitude.
D.T from Hellas


Yeah I understand why it was locked, cant be calling blizzard malice or disinterested on their own forums, even when there might be something of a point to it, and ofcourse the colourfull language used.. I shouldn't have done that.

As of your 'itll be confusing' argument, makes sense! If that was the reason though they could've said so in any of the many posts written on this subject, but they didnt. not once. That being said, seeing how things are confusing now the initial confusion might not be the worst thing. I don't agree with this view that people are idiots (even at the age where they start playing this game). I'd rather take the players seriously, and let them learn through mistakes (which yes might mean some confusion) .. But right now theres a lack of communication, people WILL LOOK at the US patch notes.. thats just the way the world works.. once information is out there people will find it, and the distinction between eu.battle.net and us.battle.net will not be the answer to stop this confusion, not one bit.

So yeah, you might say that the status quo is good enough, I think a merge would be better, and would take the initial confusion to get adjusted to the better (merged) situation for granted.

25/10/2016 14:52Posted by Lurkalot
It's not difficult is it? We get the patch a day later than the US and we get the notes when we get the patch, only someone with low intelligence wouldn't get it or realise it would cause confusion.


I think at this point getting a big cake with 'it's not about the patch notes' written on it is the only thing left to do to make this clear. Not that I agree with the 'confusion' argument, but I understand why they make the decision. Personally I'd rather see them make policy that doesnt presume that people misread and make mistakes but thats me.
25/10/2016 15:34Posted by Shammoz
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Yeah, I can't see any feral complaining about that. :)


I'm glad my vieled complaint about it didn't get noticed :P
(My feral druid has a sadface right now)


Any idea why the petition on the US Death Knight thread got closed within a few hours, but the same thread on the EU Death Knight forums is still up, weeks later?
25/10/2016 12:35Posted by Gombado
Let me start off with saying that I in no means think Aerythlea has an easy job here, or that I (and I'm sure others) underappreciate her efforts for our community. That being said next time Aerythlea makes a derisive remark on the interwebs I hope she will take the effort read the rest of the conversation, for the fun of a little context.

Just to be clear; I was talking(the disinterest and malice part) about the seperation of english speakers and english speakers within the wow community. I personally think the label malice here is justified ever since we got a glimpse of how the devs culture's view on the eu community; we're face palming picard monkeys with no possibility for worthwhile insights- we should be kept in our cages well clear from the 'always constructive' us forums. (if you missed it, our current Game Director's views on the EU community can be seen here in a fun 10th anniversary celebratory video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d3M6N5vMoQ&feature=youtu.be&t=51m12s ). A sentiment that is judging by the utter lack of developers ever visiting these forums still present.

As for disinterest? Not on Aerythleas part, surely, but from blizzard as a whole I think that's a fair assessement , both myself (http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17612252191?page=1 ) and many others (a list so long its best left to google: https://www.google.nl/search?q=merge+eu+us+forums+site:eu.battle.net&rlz=1C1CHFX_nlNL564NL564&espv=2&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3-LL86PXPAhVL5xoKHUSCBiwQrQIIKCgEMAA&biw=1511&bih=968 ) have made many a post without a reply. Now I know this is the communication policy, but seeing the breath and scope of the posts I find saying theres a disinterest in this subject more than fair.

We (/ I) simply want to talk about wow things, it's what unites us on these forums and it frustrates me (and judging by the amount of posts others aswell) that we're limited in this for archaic reasons we have to think up ourselves.

Tl;dr my reaction was not about blizzards' approach to patch notes, (I find that saying it confuses players a weak argument, especially considering the consistency of wednesday updates since.. pretty much forever.. but alas, I'm sure you know such things better than me.) I was however talking about the english EU/US forums still being split in 2016.

A link if you're confused whats going on; http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613774285

Thank you for reading and best of days to you all.

-Gombo


Dude, you are just an example of the bad people on this forum.
op, hard job or not that was no reason to lock and delete a thread that potential customers could have read and rightly so. the riot that is the usa forums will soon be here delete threads or not.
25/10/2016 17:03Posted by Silenthit
Dude, you are just an example of the bad people on this forum.


I'll try to learn and grow from your insights, thank you.
25/10/2016 15:36Posted by Dottie
25/10/2016 15:34Posted by Shammoz
I'm glad my vieled complaint about it didn't get noticed :P
(My feral druid has a sadface right now)

Could be worse, you could be an Elemental Shaman, oh wait.


oh look who it is. dumbass and the troll who split account.

best buddies 4 eva.

actually ill edit that to someone pretending to be a dumbass.
The mods do what they can, the EU team is much smaller than in the US, you can always apply and try to be a community manager of a NA based game in Europe, it´s a hard job.

I agree that I would like more interaction with the Devs too, we had plenty of that during Beta and even though I disagreed with Watcher, it was a nice chat. But this is not the fault of our mods here, it´s a decision made in the US, so you should address your concerns there and not here.
25/10/2016 12:44Posted by Julianna
25/10/2016 12:35Posted by Gombado
A link if you're confused whats going on; http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613774285


The Blue addressed the post, and gave the reason why things are as they are, there was no need to open this thread, if anything it makes things worse.


The "blue" actually lied. She said that the notes were posted in the US because the patch was out while it wasn't here. Thats not true since it wasn't out in the US either.

So yea... At best its miscommunication but its just another in a long line of drivel and platitudes from the blues. It's like they all have foot in mouth disease tbh.
25/10/2016 17:16Posted by Testora
The mods do what they can, the EU team is much smaller than in the US, you can always apply and try to be a community manager of a NA based game in Europe, it´s a hard job.

I agree that I would like more interaction with the Devs too, we had plenty of that during Beta and even though I disagreed with Watcher, it was a nice chat. But this is not the fault of our mods here, it´s a decision made in the US, so you should address your concerns there and not here.


you do realise the irony how we cannot adress anything there, I hope? And I'm not upset with the mods here at all, I agree with all you said.
25/10/2016 17:16Posted by Barelyheals
25/10/2016 12:44Posted by Julianna
...

The Blue addressed the post, and gave the reason why things are as they are, there was no need to open this thread, if anything it makes things worse.


The "blue" actually lied. She said that the notes were posted in the US because the patch was out while it wasn't here. Thats not true since it wasn't out in the US either.

So yea... At best its miscommunication but its just another in a long line of drivel and platitudes from the blues. It's like they all have foot in mouth disease tbh.


yeah that's actually an interesting point, ah well.. I guess they don't mind the 'confused' players in the US .. or something like that..
25/10/2016 12:35Posted by Gombado
Just to be clear; I was talking(the disinterest and malice part) about the seperation of english speakers and english speakers within the wow community. I personally think the label malice here is justified ever since we got a glimpse of how the devs culture's view on the eu community; we're face palming picard monkeys with no possibility for worthwhile insights- we should be kept in our cages well clear from the 'always constructive' us forums. (if you missed it, our current Game Director's views on the EU community can be seen here in a fun 10th anniversary celebratory video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d3M6N5vMoQ&feature=youtu.be&t=51m12s ). A sentiment that is judging by the utter lack of developers ever visiting these forums still present.


I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. In that clip, Ion is comparing US and EU feedback threads on the same topic - and you even see the Picard ASCII he's scrolling past in the EU thread. While I understand that people have the pereception that their feedback isn't valued here, I feel it's a huge stretch to take that one example and claim it's how the entire EU community is viewed. The seconds after that section even go on to explain how feedback is integral to the raid design process. Furthermore, Ion even elaborated on that clip here.

Ion still posts feedback threads for all the raid testing for both the beta and PTR, something he'd hardly take the time to do if the team didn't care. During the course of the Legion beta he replied to threads on both the EU and US forums and more recently, he has even shared details on the EU forum first.

As for disinterest? Not on Aerythleas part, surely, but from blizzard as a whole I think that's a fair assessement , both myself (http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17612252191?page=1 ) and many others have made many a post without a reply. Now I know this is the communication policy, but seeing the breath and scope of the posts I find saying theres a disinterest in this subject more than fair.

We (/ I) simply want to talk about wow things, it's what unites us on these forums and it frustrates me (and judging by the amount of posts others aswell) that we're limited in this for archaic reasons we have to think up ourselves.


The request to merge the EU and US forums is one I see quite a lot of, the reality is I don't have a good answer to provide right now.

The purpose of the EU forums is to provide a platform for European players to discuss the game with each other, which allows us to gather European feedback and sentiment. While on some topics, the feedback being voiced on both EU and US is pretty similar, there are also cases where one region has reacted far more strongly to something than the other. If the forums were merged, this would be harder to differentiate when we construct our internal reports, and we have to consider how to adapt these processes accordingly.

There is also the matter of service related topics. The US forum already has separate sections for the Oceanic portion of their subscriber base. If the EU subscribers were added to this, we'd still be looking at having separate EU General Discussion and Recruitment sections, as well as separate EU and US service support forums which could make it even harder for non-forum regulars to track down information in times of technical problems if that's the only time they check the forum. The alternative is; do we restructure our forum support teams to be global? This brings with it a whole new set of factors such as: Will this require new tools? Can we provide coverage with our current workforce or will that need to be reviewed? Are there any regional variances in policy that might cause roadblocks? (etc.)

Furthermore, there are technical considerations on the back-end (a small example, but by no means the only hurdle: how to make a clear differentiation in cases where EU and US share server names and there's a character of the same name on both servers?) as well as subtle cultural differences to consider. Then we also have to think about what this is going to require in terms of resources from our web teams. Will we just do a 1-for-1 exchange and merge EU general with US general, EU Class forums into US Class forums (and the resulting mess that would likely need to be cleaned up) or put the EU forum into some sort of read-only archive mode for example.

Even then, despite seeing requests for this merge, we do also see people asking for such a merge not to happen. If any solution is decided upon, we'd want it to be the best fit possible (and leaving things as is, is one potential solution).

I guess the TL;DR here is: This isn't even an exhaustive list of all the factors and variables - it's not a simple case of flicking a switch and it happens.

25/10/2016 16:08Posted by Kreep
Any idea why the petition on the US Death Knight thread got closed within a few hours, but the same thread on the EU Death Knight forums is still up, weeks later?


I agree I should've locked it by now, but I let it keep ticking over as there was some very useful feedback coming out of it.
I am humbled and appreciate your long and thorough reply Aerythlea

I like to think that;

The request to merge the EU and US forums is one I see quite a lot of, the reality is I don't have a good answer to provide right now.


would have been enough an answer for me, but appreciate the depth and scope all the more for it. Hope I wasn't too big a pain in the butt, communicating, especially in text can be challenging (atleast for me), especially when trying to convey a tone (be it worry,happyness,confusion,outrage etc). The many opinions dont help with that..

Anyhoo, once more.. thank you

p.s. I'd like to add here that ion's response you linked gave me some insights into my own train of thoughts, since seeing that clip whenever I read 'feedback' I read 'feedback on the US forums' ..it's the sort of bias thats hard to get rid of, and I'm sure theres a learning moment in there somewhere. Ion has always been one to communicate a lot with the community, so I hope he'll forgive me;moreso because I think he'll do great as game director.
But Aerythlea, until the forums are merged there remains a problem. Whilst sentiment might be stronger on one side or the other, ours will always be diluted by the us forums. Not only in the fact that we dont even have the same forum setup for feedback and discussions, tech help, mac help etc that ppl on our side dont feel that we are listened to.

You might listen to us, you might engage with us, but beyond that we do not feel engaged with at all, we feel like we are a sub sect of the community who are shunted off into the corner, patted on the head and told that yes yes very good. now have a cookie and shut up cos we are listening.

How can we be constructive and join in the discussion when we are in an echo chamber. When we feel like we are talking to just ourselves then how many dont even bother joining in, or even coming to the forums at all.

When reddit and twitter are a better line of communication with the devs then via the actual games main website and forums then there is a major problem.
Rather than merging forums as suggested, Why not just allow people with a game license to post on the forums when logged in no matter what?
At least for me the issue isn't about EU and US forms being merged, it is about EU players feeling like we are not listened to, or talked to at all compared to US players. The thing with forums is more a symptom then anything else.

I think if people did feel as valued as they perceive US players to be then the forum thing would be a nonissue.

Years and years of head-pats saying that we are listened to when we feel we really are not being has not worked so far, I really don't see it working in the future.
Just one thing, why EU forums have no bug report section? I know there is an ingame tool to do so but actually you can't keep track with reported bugs. So, i am just wondering why there isn't such a section on EU forums while there is on US ones.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. In that clip, Ion is comparing US and EU feedback threads on the same topic - and you even see the Picard ASCII he's scrolling past in the EU thread.


Then get proper moderation. A week ago there was a religion bait thread that remained open for over a day. The OP posted a couple more of the again with no action.

While on some topics, the feedback being voiced on both EU and US is pretty similar, there are also cases where one region has reacted far more strongly to something than the other. If the forums were merged, this would be harder to differentiate when we construct our internal reports, and we have to consider how to adapt these processes accordingly.


What does that matter as it's the same game it's not like we get a different version.

Will this require new tools? Can we provide coverage with our current workforce or will that need to be reviewed? Are there any regional variances in policy that might cause roadblocks? (etc.)


It may as well be moved the the USA since there's almost no interaction with Blizzard staff and as I said before there is close to no moderation.

Furthermore, there are technical considerations on the back-end (a small example, but by no means the only hurdle: how to make a clear differentiation in cases where EU and US share server names and there's a character of the same name on both servers?) as well as subtle cultural differences to consider.


Servername-US, Servername-EU easy.

Will we just do a 1-for-1 exchange and merge EU general with US general, EU Class forums into US Class forums (and the resulting mess that would likely need to be cleaned up) or put the EU forum into some sort of read-only archive mode for example.


That's a minor thing. Again proper moderation would clear up those threads much better.

Even then, despite seeing requests for this merge, we do also see people asking for such a merge not to happen.


Where?

If any solution is decided upon, we'd want it to be the best fit possible (and leaving things as is, is one potential solution).


You've detailed very few legitimate reasons and they seem more like excuses.

Proper moderation would sort out the EU forums as there's only a few legitimate threads made the rest are either rage threads or topics that already exist, on the same page.

I guess the TL;DR here is: This isn't even an exhaustive list of all the factors and variables - it's not a simple case of flicking a switch and it happens.


Blizzard have wasted much more on technical projects that have bourne no fruit and yes I mean coalesced realms.
25/10/2016 19:22Posted by Someoneelse
Then get proper moderation. A week ago there was a religion bait thread that remained open for over a day. The OP posted a couple more of the again with no action.


This so much this ^^

and double standards i get ban for question closure of a thread and then remake it this one gets a blue response oh well :/

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