Solution to ALL gear RNG related problems

General
EDIT: 7.2 - so this patch did bring minor solution to current RNG related problem -> Nethershards and because it worked it was promptly nerfed to oblivion - starting to look that Blizz really don't want majority of players to enjoy their game

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From start of Legion there is quite a lot complains that there is too much RNG in addition to regular will it drop or not:
- Legendary items
- Warforged/Titanforged
- 3rd stats / socket

Personally I don't see as problem that such RNG exist. Even extent of RNG which exist now wouldn't be that bad if there would be alternative.

Real problem is that not-RNG parts are unsufficient.

lets face it BEST RNG gear you can get are:
- 895 Legendary - unknown level of RNG
- 895 Titanforged+Socket+3rd stat + correct stats for you - at least 5-6+ RNG "rolls" at minimum

Best non-RNG items are:
- 850 reputation items (very few and usually not ideal)
- 855 crafted items with max. Obliterum upgrade (was only 850 at beginning)

This disparity between RNG and not-RNG is just too great

My solution:
add possibility of upgrading ANY gear up to max. (895 Titanforged+Socket+3rd stat+indestructible) similar to Obliterum+BoS (item+catalyst)
logical 'items' would be:
- +5 ilv items from profession capable of crafting that kind of gear (can be different ones for higher item levels)
- +Socket - from engineering ("drill")
- +3rd stat items - from inscription ("rune enhancement")
- +indestructible (personally don't count as real 3rd stat) - from alchemy ("Drought of Indestructibility")
materials to craft those could be from:
- reputations
- high end content - Raids, dungeons based (+basically anything which would grant "Valor" in previous expansions)
- non-crafted Obliterations (different/better from higher iLvl)
catalysts should be BoP - to prevent people to just buy and use FULL upgrade immediately:
- high end-content
- Class Hall missions
- something "Work Order" style - main "time factor" to upgrade frequency (mainly as catalyst for iLvl items)

That would be solution for everyone:
- RNG impact can be lowered!!!
- effort brings upgrade
- its technically possible to really have chance to get TRUE BiS gear - great for completionists
- people really try to get Legendary and are not lucky - they collect enough mats to upgrade by doing content so they stay viable even for really strict progress raid groups etc...
- catalysts - slow down things to keep people running out of content
- do it right way and it could even be Gold sink (catalysts and mats from reputation)
- as RNG drops still exist only "rich" people will upgrade asap - most people will wait till they are lucky enough to get item they don't need upgrade that much
- it would increase usefulness of professions (especially inscription) which are more for alt use then main char use, reputation (which is more or less useless now)

Personally I see this as something which would get MUCH LESS negative feedback then current RNG situation does.

What is your opinion

If you thing this is interesting option feel free to post this elsewhere (US battle net forums, etc.)
Sounds like a good idea.
It's a nice improvement, that's for sure.

I also made a suggestion on how luck in dungeon drops can be improved:
http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614475155
Interesting suggestions but, currently there are so much Players with Gold Capped Chars from WoD's Gold Inflation, the reliability your ideas provide just means that people can instantly get to near-maximum Item Level quite quickly.

I mean look at that Spider Mount that was introduced, if people can buy that imagine what would happen if you could just pay for your item to be upgraded?

PS: In the past, that wouldn't have been such a problem, because Item Level wasn't so important as your skill and knowledge about your Spec, but currently in Legion, Classes are at their simplest and easiest and all of the Skill Gaps are barely there.
02/12/2016 17:50Posted by Lyanne
Interesting suggestions but, currently there are so much Players with Gold Capped Chars from WoD's Gold Inflation, the reliability your ideas provide just means that people can instantly get to near-maximum Item Level quite quickly.

I mean look at that Spider Mount that was introduced, if people can buy that imagine what would happen if you could just pay for your item to be upgraded?


Remember he also mentioned an Item besides the Obliterum.
I imagine that item would drop from content relevant to the iLevel you're going for.

It could be an item dropped from Dungeons that you have to "feed" some Obliterum into it, in order to upgrade another item by X levels, up to that level.
02/12/2016 17:51Posted by Avenjielde
Remember he also mentioned an Item besides the Obliterum.
I imagine that item would drop from content relevant to the iLevel you're going for.


Sure, but I mean, what would happen if that was BoE? Wouldn't it technically be ''Pay to win'' in the sense that people who have a massive amount of Gold would have a HUGE advantage to those who don't?

I mean normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, because if you have a lot of Gold, it means you must invest some time to earn it, so time/effort=reward but like I mentioned my problem was with WoD inflation, because earning Gold there was a Facebook game, you click and wait, that's not investing time and effort to me.

But also, like we currently see with the big changes in 7.1.5, and bear in mind in the future most likely that kind of patch is going to be more and more frequent, there are going to be big changes in terms of Stat Priority, like for example my DK, by the looks of it the ''Mastery/Haste'' build of Clawing Shadows is probably going to replace Castigator Build ''Crit/Haste'' which means, if I had worked my !@# off for an item with Crit and Haste, having to do it all again to get that sweet Mastery seems like frustrating.

But don't get me wrong, I definitely would love to see something like those ideas introduced, it sounds awesome.
Sounds good, but it will never happen, as it would allow people to:

- work hard for their gear
- get the gear they want
- HAVE FUN

Which are 3 things Blizzard is clearly, without any doubt, trying to avoid in this expansion.
I did think about gold capped people and to prevent full upgrade right away

02/12/2016 14:39Posted by Garnthrax
catalysts should be BoP - to prevent people to just buy and use FULL upgrade immediately:
- high end-content
- Class Hall missions
- something "Work Order" style - main "time factor" to upgrade frequency (mainly as catalyst for iLvl items)


personally I think iLvl upgrades (which have greatest impact) need to have some gated BoP items as Catalyst

I did think about THIS quite a bit - main part was to think about system which re-use already working concepts (and thus need only minimum effort on Blizz side):
- Obliterum upgrades
- professions
- reputations
- work orders
- ...
Completely agree.

These ideas would solve a lot of problems with people who want to play the game, make an effort and discover content and not lock themselves in a 5-15-20 people dungeon/raid. Slow but steady progression.

Is a pity that Blizzard will probably ignore you.
Make some of the upgrades time-gated. I'm not a huge fan of it, but it does make sense in that it adds control. It brings players on equal footing regardless of how little or how many resources they have.

And personally I wouldn't mind having time-gated upgrades to work towards because it gives me something to look forward to, instead of this unknown and uncontrollable RNG that dominates the game currently.

If I know for sure that if I start working towards, let's say an item that can add a socket to my gear, it will finish in 10 days - then it gives me a sense of completion and a goal to work towards. Maybe I will get an RNG upgrade before the 10 days are up, but that's fine because then I can use my socket item on a different piece of gear.

I would love having a system like this in the game.
Having one or two items craft able like this maybe even three would be great. Shadoweave set in tbc? Nice idea and would be welcome.

Fully crafted replaces the need to endlessly farm dungeons which is the high end content right now and always has been

Being able to add one or two sockets also great.

Blizz could've avoided all of this by combining the above and the legendary system. Craft able legendaries with mat requirements in the excess from a dirty long quest chain....extending the ones we did for proffs. Ending in an order hall for battle to unlock the plans.

That !@#$ would've been cool.
06/12/2016 15:43Posted by Chanyi
Sounds good, but it will never happen, as it would allow people to:

- work hard for their gear
- get the gear they want
- HAVE FUN

Which are 3 things Blizzard is clearly, without any doubt, trying to avoid in this expansion.


I like you for your holy crusade against this abomination of a company.

You're right too though.

Oh and good point OP, I actually kind of agree, there's a point to the that bit that due to the large absence of the counterpart, it just pushes one side so much over the tipping point that we're simply just !@#$ed, if we're not lucky.

My best example is 5 oranges, 2 of which are utterly useless and will remains useless, 3 of which 1 is remotely useful(which is Sephuz btw) and 2 that are stat sticks with negligible "bonuses". LoH reduction is nice and all but I don't really exactly benefit from that in a general way. Getting healed with blessings for 15% is a joke and on overflowing is actually a curse, because you usually use it on someone to break from slow/roots ASAP = they are usually at full hp = x3 overhealing shield.
And yeah, I know what I'm talking about, I did +15 with that affix that week.

PS. Shameless bump.
09/12/2016 10:00Posted by Huzzaa
06/12/2016 15:43Posted by Chanyi
Sounds good, but it will never happen, as it would allow people to:

- work hard for their gear
- get the gear they want
- HAVE FUN

Which are 3 things Blizzard is clearly, without any doubt, trying to avoid in this expansion.


I like you for your holy crusade against this abomination of a company.

You're right too though.

You know what's interesting in this whole thing though?

Back in 2015, when they announced the whole system, with "you can get a Legendary from just playing" etc., I was EXACTLY in these same forums, posting EXACTLY the same thing that I've been saying for MONTHS now in Legion.

I was swamped in downvotes and laughter "hahaha no moar raid or die, now we casuals will finally have something fun in the game!" I tried to tell people that bad luck is not discriminating based on your play style, but it just fell on deaf ears.

One might ask "but why were you against a system you didn't know anything about". We knew enough. We saw random drops in dungeons in Beta as well. We knew we couldn't target.

So now the IMPORTANT part:

- In each reward system there must be CONTROL to the drop rates.
- desirable items keep hamsters running on the wheel
- past WoW system: difficulty gating. Through ingame achievement and merit, one was able to raise above others in gear. GOOD. RELIABLE.
- present WoW: RNG gating. Through sheer luck, one is able to get BiS. Unreliable.

This is the whole issue. They replaced one gating with another, to favor a certain group of players which were complaining a lot, and the system will be modified in the future (increased initial drop rates) to further favor that group.

However... even on that group, you can still be unlucky. And there is no way to offset your luck.

So here we are, more than a year later, where I can say "told you so", and I don't like saying this, as it affects me quite a bit, so there's nothing to be happy about being right all along.

As for the "holy crusade", I've learned from the past that one can change things in WoW. But one needs to collect enough voices, and those voices must scream loud enough to reach Blizzard.

I don't like it, yet there is no other way. Many get upset and bored seeing the same crap - YET THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. Sorry guys.

The alternative? Quitting, probably, as playing an expansion for 2 years without being able to achieve BiS and getting stomped on logs by worse players is not something I'm prepared to go through, because of my competitive nature. So i'd rather continue to play WoW, you know, and have fun like I had even in WoD (lol).

Hence the posting shall continue, and I hope others understand too (from the past, again...) that without a powerful enough voice and uproar we WILL NOT change anything, and Argus might find you wearing Prydaz&Sephuz.

You don't want that to happen.
+
02/12/2016 17:50Posted by Lyanne
Interesting suggestions but, currently there are so much Players with Gold Capped Chars from WoD's Gold Inflation, the reliability your ideas provide just means that people can instantly get to near-maximum Item Level quite quickly.

I mean look at that Spider Mount that was introduced, if people can buy that imagine what would happen if you could just pay for your item to be upgraded?

PS: In the past, that wouldn't have been such a problem, because Item Level wasn't so important as your skill and knowledge about your Spec, but currently in Legion, Classes are at their simplest and easiest and all of the Skill Gaps are barely there.


Its quite simple really. allow for upgrades to current level instantly (855), then give each next 5 levels a time gate. say 24-48 hours as you get closer to the gear cap. That way unlucky people could reach their intended item level in time for the next raid tier, and rich people cant cap out instantly, and they wouldn't buy 100 olbiterium because of price changes, they would buy the ones they needed daily.
10/12/2016 17:51Posted by Thebluedream
Its quite simple really. allow for upgrades to current level instantly (855), then give each next 5 levels a time gate. say 24-48 hours as you get closer to the gear cap. That way unlucky people could reach their intended item level in time for the next raid tier, and rich people cant cap out instantly, and they wouldn't buy 100 olbiterium because of price changes, they would buy the ones they needed daily.

This sound like interesting variation to my system.
Just to fit better - catalyst for upgrades above current craftable baseline behind time-gated work order
Really good idea!
10/12/2016 17:51Posted by Thebluedream
Its quite simple really. allow for upgrades to current level instantly (855), then give each next 5 levels a time gate. say 24-48 hours as you get closer to the gear cap. That way unlucky people could reach their intended item level in time for the next raid tier, and rich people cant cap out instantly, and they wouldn't buy 100 olbiterium because of price changes, they would buy the ones they needed daily.


Sure, but time gating is so cheap. Again I'm not saying I don't like the suggestions, I just don't like that people who sat around playing Facebook games in their Garrisons have tuns of Gold thus they could easily have better gear than me, who uses Gold to pay for Subscription.

Maybe it could work, but if they decide to implement an idea like this I would rather some other gating than time, because that just feels so lazy, like the Missions with the Order Hall Campaign it's just insulting.
Blizzard Developer: "Very good idea, won't be implemented :) We feel that..."

...
Sure, but time gating is so cheap. Again I'm not saying I don't like the suggestions, I just don't like that people who sat around playing Facebook games in their Garrisons have tuns of Gold thus they could easily have better gear than me, who uses Gold to pay for Subscription.
...

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this system is meant to reduce effect of bad RNG not as main way and thats why time gating for it is most FAIR way (you can't BUY time)

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