People exploiting a WQ today

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Some suspensions it seems have gone out, that means the players were detected and the AP gain would also have been removed.
16/11/2016 19:53Posted by Jarancina
Of course no action will be taken.

Actually, we did just take action against players who went out of their way to take advantage of this bug. We had two main motivations: First, fairness to those who could have taken advantage of this exploit but chose not to; and second, setting/reinforcing a precedent that flagrant abuse of bugs for personal gain will be taken seriously. Even if you're not concerned with fair play on a community level, from a pure selfish perspective, you're better off not taking advantage of loopholes like these as it's very likely that you'll end up worse off than if you'd never done it at all.

Obviously, the existence of a bug like this is our fault. We should have caught this issue (which arose from a a conflict between two world quests, causing credit to not save properly) during testing. But the existence of our mistake doesn't excuse players' deliberate actions to take advantage of it.

Here's an awkward real-world analogy:

Let's say you're walking down the street one day, when you look down, and notice a crisp bank note being lifted by a gentle breeze around your feet. You look around, and no one is in sight. Well, guess it's your lucky day!

A few moments later, you come across two or three more bank notes. Definitely strange, and you're a bit suspicious because this obviously isn't normal, but they're just lying there. No one can really blame you if you pick them up, right?

Now, you turn the corner, and you see vast stacks of bank notes sitting on a pallet in the middle of the road. It seems like an unfortunate driver failed to properly secure the rear door of his armored truck, leading to this scene. But if you walked up and grabbed a large handful from the pile, would that be an entirely innocent act? Would you be surprised if a police officer who witnessed you do that thought otherwise?

Finally, if you were to fetch large garbage bags, and call up your friends and tell them to do the same, so you could load up as much of the cash as you all could carry.... Still entirely innocent? Sure, the driver made a big mistake in not locking the door, but would there be any surprise if you were tracked down based on CCTV footage and there were consequences for that act?

(Hey, I said it would be an awkward analogy.)

The account actions taken today were generally in direct proportion to the degree of abuse. Players who may have innocently repeated the quest just a few times were not actioned. But on the other end of the spectrum, some who managed to fit in literally hundreds of completions, forming groups to do so, received far more serious penalties.

We apologize for the existence of the bug in the first place, but once an issue like this is out in the wild, we need to act to preserve the spirit of fair play.
16/11/2016 22:41Posted by Watcher
16/11/2016 19:53Posted by Jarancina
Of course no action will be taken.

The account actions taken today were generally in direct proportion to the degree of abuse. Players who may have innocently repeated the quest just a few times were not actioned. But on the other end of the spectrum, some who managed to fit in literally hundreds of completions, forming groups to do so, received far more serious penalties.


Are they keeping the AP? Hoping it got removed, so this isn't a "worth" moment.
^ the rep they got too.
Thank you for posting, Watcher.
So often in the past those who deliberately avoided exploits ended up worse off than the exploiters so I'm glad that this time it was punished.
16/11/2016 22:52Posted by Ananda
Thank you for posting, Watcher.
So often in the past those who deliberately avoided exploits ended up worse off than the exploiters so I'm glad that this time it was punished.
It's truly depressing you needed to say this, but it's completely true. I hope, I really hope this is Blizzard's policy moving forward.

I have no problem allowing the "edge cases" through the whole "did they know/didn't they". However when it's clear abuse, ban them.
16/11/2016 22:46Posted by Fq
...

The account actions taken today were generally in direct proportion to the degree of abuse. Players who may have innocently repeated the quest just a few times were not actioned. But on the other end of the spectrum, some who managed to fit in literally hundreds of completions, forming groups to do so, received far more serious penalties.


Are they keeping the AP? Hoping it got removed, so this isn't a "worth" moment.


16/11/2016 22:52Posted by Archimitros
Yup, friend of mine got 24h ban + AP removed.
16/11/2016 22:41Posted by Watcher
Here's an awkward real-world analogy:

Let's say you're walking down the street one day, when you look down, and notice a crisp bank note being lifted by a gentle breeze around your feet. You look around, and no one is in sight. Well, guess it's your lucky day!

A few moments later, you come across two or three more bank notes. Definitely strange, and you're a bit suspicious because this obviously isn't normal, but they're just lying there. No one can really blame you if you pick them up, right?

Now, you turn the corner, and you see vast stacks of bank notes sitting on a pallet in the middle of the road. It seems like an unfortunate driver failed to properly secure the rear door of his armored truck, leading to this scene. But if you walked up and grabbed a large handful from the pile, would that be an entirely innocent act? Would you be surprised if a police officer who witnessed you do that thought otherwise?

Finally, if you were to fetch large garbage bags, and call up your friends and tell them to do the same, so you could load up as much of the cash as you all could carry.... Still entirely innocent? Sure, the driver made a big mistake in not locking the door, but would there be any surprise if you were tracked down based on CCTV footage and there were consequences for that act?


Wow, what a load of communist bullcrap.
16/11/2016 22:46Posted by Fq
[quote]...

The account actions taken today were generally in direct proportion to the degree of abuse. Players who may have innocently repeated the quest just a few times were not actioned. But on the other end of the spectrum, some who managed to fit in literally hundreds of completions, forming groups to do so, received far more serious penalties.


Are they keeping the AP? Hoping it got removed, so this isn't a "worth" moment.


16/11/2016 22:52Posted by Archimitros
Yup, friend of mine got 24h ban + AP removed.


How can you tell the AP was removed when they can't log in? and the email stating so is a generic email.
16/11/2016 22:54Posted by Shammoz
16/11/2016 22:52Posted by Archimitros
Yup, friend of mine got 24h ban + AP removed.
How do they know AP was removed? Was it in the email?

Hence wanting a blue confirmation for:
AP removal
Reputation removal (though everyone should be exalted by now)
16/11/2016 22:41Posted by Watcher
16/11/2016 19:53Posted by Jarancina
Of course no action will be taken.


We apologize for the existence of the bug in the first place, but once an issue like this is out in the wild, we need to act to preserve the spirit of fair play.


So what are you going to do about the Odyn exploit?
16/11/2016 22:41Posted by Watcher
16/11/2016 19:53Posted by Jarancina
Of course no action will be taken.

Actually, we did just take action against players who went out of their way to take advantage of this bug. We had two main motivations: First, fairness to those who could have taken advantage of this exploit but chose not to; and second, setting/reinforcing a precedent that flagrant abuse of bugs for personal gain will be taken seriously. Even if you're not concerned with fair play on a community level, from a pure selfish perspective, you're better off not taking advantage of loopholes like these as it's very likely that you'll end up worse off than if you'd never done it at all.

Obviously, the existence of a bug like this is our fault. We should have caught this issue (which arose from a a conflict between two world quests, causing credit to not save properly) during testing. But the existence of our mistake doesn't excuse players' deliberate actions to take advantage of it.

Here's an awkward real-world analogy:

Let's say you're walking down the street one day, when you look down, and notice a crisp bank note being lifted by a gentle breeze around your feet. You look around, and no one is in sight. Well, guess it's your lucky day!

A few moments later, you come across two or three more bank notes. Definitely strange, and you're a bit suspicious because this obviously isn't normal, but they're just lying there. No one can really blame you if you pick them up, right?

Now, you turn the corner, and you see vast stacks of bank notes sitting on a pallet in the middle of the road. It seems like an unfortunate driver failed to properly secure the rear door of his armored truck, leading to this scene. But if you walked up and grabbed a large handful from the pile, would that be an entirely innocent act? Would you be surprised if a police officer who witnessed you do that thought otherwise?

Finally, if you were to fetch large garbage bags, and call up your friends and tell them to do the same, so you could load up as much of the cash as you all could carry.... Still entirely innocent? Sure, the driver made a big mistake in not locking the door, but would there be any surprise if you were tracked down based on CCTV footage and there were consequences for that act?

(Hey, I said it would be an awkward analogy.)

The account actions taken today were generally in direct proportion to the degree of abuse. Players who may have innocently repeated the quest just a few times were not actioned. But on the other end of the spectrum, some who managed to fit in literally hundreds of completions, forming groups to do so, received far more serious penalties.

We apologize for the existence of the bug in the first place, but once an issue like this is out in the wild, we need to act to preserve the spirit of fair play.


And yet, people who abused Odyn Mythic, a *new* raid boss that drops some of the best available loot in the entire game, get absolutely no punishment. How on earth is *THAT* fair? Why do some guilds get a free mythic TOV kill and progress time on Guarm, while others have to actually do it the fair way? You were quick enough to take action against the AP abuse; shouldn't you be making an example of people abusing raid content as well? Only 24 kills so far have happened, and multiple of those were bugged. Come on man.
...

Are they keeping the AP? Hoping it got removed, so this isn't a "worth" moment.


16/11/2016 22:52Posted by Archimitros
Yup, friend of mine got 24h ban + AP removed.


How can you tell the AP was removed when they can't log in? and the email stating so is a generic email.


Most of those banned were online and informed of the penalty by the GM that disconnected them and banned them.
16/11/2016 22:58Posted by Dracodraco
And yet, people who abused Odyn Mythic, a *new* raid boss that drops some of the best available loot in the entire game, get absolutely no punishment. How on earth is *THAT* fair? Why do some guilds get a free mythic TOV kill and progress time on Guarm, while others have to actually do it the fair way? You were quick enough to take action against the AP abuse; shouldn't you be making an example of people abusing raid content as well? Only 24 kills so far have happened, and multiple of those were bugged. Come on man.
C'mon now Draco, despite agreeing with your sentiment, I think there's a slight difference here. Active exploiting versus a buggy boss just deciding to do nothing.

This post is completely irrelavant if there's evidence of guilds mass pulling just to get the bug/finding a way to cause it to happen. As far as I know it's random.
i see the quest is up again, blizz unbugged it?
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How can you tell the AP was removed when they can't log in? and the email stating so is a generic email.


Most of those banned were online and informed of the penalty by the GM that disconnected them and banned them.


5 of my guildies got banned mid-mythic boss, with no information of the penalty given to them. I've not heard of ANYONE being informed of the punishment from my considerably big Bnet list either, so I'm going to call bull!@#$ on anyone actually being informed.

(also don't take it as me disagreeing that punishments should go out; My raiders are %^-*ing morons, and they deserve to get smacked over the wrist, as they did).

[C'mon now Draco, despite agreeing with your sentiment, I think there's a slight difference here. Active exploiting versus a buggy boss just deciding to do nothing.

This post is completely irrelavant if there's evidence of guilds mass pulling just to get the bug/finding a way to cause it to happen. As far as I know it's random.


Considering they had the option to wipe down and pull it again to un-bug it, I don't see what the difference here is. If they killed him while bugged, that's seeing a pile of unguarded cash and grabbing it and !@#$ing running for it.
While I completely agree and I am playing devil's advocate here slightly. Inaction versus action are two different things.
The people that killed bugged odyn should be given the same treatment too then. You're (terrible :P) analogy works for them too. Fair play and all.
16/11/2016 23:18Posted by Barelyheals
The people that killed bugged odyn should be given the same treatment too then. You're (terrible :P) analogy works for them too. Fair play and all.
Your guild name confused me for a moment there.
16/11/2016 23:09Posted by Fq
While I completely agree and I am playing devil's advocate here slightly. Inaction versus action are two different things.


Which is what I'm saying; Deciding to kill the boss despite it being bugged is quite clearly intent/action.
Should Ensidia not have been punished for their Lich King platform adventures? As I recall, that was also just "inaction" - platform rebuilt itself, they just kept going.

Claiming that just killing the boss when it's bugged is "inaction" is silly man. It's a choice they made with other options available.

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