I can't invite you, warriors are bad

Warrior
Tired of hearing this on group finder for m+ and raids.. Happening way too often to ignore.
I'm a pretty high ilevel so I don't find it that hard to get into +10 below. However I do find it hard to get into +10 above, probably the same as yourself so I hear exactly what your saying.

Overall I think fury has a bad name partly from the failed design from when legion launched. And it's not as bad as what people think. I once got refused from a guild simply because I was fury spec which epitomizes blizzards failed design across a lot of classes and their stubbornness to address them.
damage has been done at launch indeed and it will take months to recover now.however i get to join pug raids with little trouble but dmg meters show we are still bottom feeders compared to other classes with similar gear/ilvl/skill.(i do have bis legs so i perform well) but what about warriors less lucky?
Exactly, i have sephuz ring and move speed boots on my warrior. People don't want to invite me to mythic raids and HC helya and they arent wrong to do so. We underperform by miles compared to similar geared classes. That is why I made this paladin who has 34 traits now and doing more damage than my warrior with 42 traits purchased.
27/12/2016 21:20Posted by Asulgard
Tired of hearing this on group finder for m+ and raids.. Happening way too often to ignore.


No it doesn't. I never have issues finding groups. Your spec is horrible, though, for Mythic+ and even for raiding. Looks like you copied off a spec from pre-7.1 for raiders and never bothered to look at it ever again...

Warpaint is !@#$, and you don't need Avatar in Mythic+. Also Carnage why?! With so many mobs to execute?

Seriously, please look at yourself before you start complaining on the Warrior forum about you not being picked for groups. It lowers the overall quality of the forum to have "oopsies" like these.

27/12/2016 22:15Posted by Dvega
I'm a pretty high ilevel so I don't find it that hard to get into +10 below. However I do find it hard to get into +10 above, probably the same as yourself so I hear exactly what your saying.

Overall I think fury has a bad name partly from the failed design from when legion launched. And it's not as bad as what people think. I once got refused from a guild simply because I was fury spec which epitomizes blizzards failed design across a lot of classes and their stubbornness to address them.


No, it proves that some people are lazy retards. You don't want to be in a guild where the GM or officer isn't even aware of the changes happening, and are not up for a discussion to prove them wrong.

31/12/2016 11:38Posted by Asungard
Exactly, i have sephuz ring and move speed boots on my warrior. People don't want to invite me to mythic raids and HC helya and they arent wrong to do so. We underperform by miles compared to similar geared classes. That is why I made this paladin who has 34 traits now and doing more damage than my warrior with 42 traits purchased.


Am I right to assume that you're not as good a warrior as you are a paladin? No? Then keep playing your paladin until 7.1.5 hits and your ring starts working like a mini-heroism every time you charge...
27/12/2016 21:20Posted by Asulgard
Tired of hearing this on group finder for m+ and raids.. Happening way too often to ignore.


No it doesn't. I never have issues finding groups. Your spec is horrible, though, for Mythic+ and even for raiding. Looks like you copied off a spec from pre-7.1 for raiders and never bothered to look at it ever again...

Warpaint is !@#$, and you don't need Avatar in Mythic+. Also Carnage why?! With so many mobs to execute?

Seriously, please look at yourself before you start complaining on the Warrior forum about you not being picked for groups. It lowers the overall quality of the forum to have "oopsies" like these.

Am I right to assume that you're not as good a warrior as you are a paladin? No? Then keep playing your paladin until 7.1.5 hits and your ring starts working like a mini-heroism every time you charge...


There is no need to look at myself but you obviously need to take your own advice as you assume the talent build you see on someone's profile is set in stone and also for assuming it is for raiding/mythic+. That was my spec for random BG fun as fury and not even serious pvp, as i do my serious pvping in arms spec. I change spec so often, its differs depending on the dungeon and raid boss i am going to kill. So that fury build you assumed i had to check myself, makes you look not very smart for jumping to conclusions without any facts. My build has nothing to do with people pm'ing me "sorry no warriors, they are in a bad state right now". I am not making this !@#$ up from my %^-, you may or may not have countered this before but it doesn't mean its not happening to other people. Get your head out of the sand please.
31/12/2016 14:05Posted by Asulgard
There is no need to look at myself but you obviously need to take your own advice as you assume the talent build you see on someone's profile is set in stone and also for assuming it is for raiding/mythic+. That was my spec for random BG fun as fury and not even serious pvp, as i do my serious pvping in arms spec. I change spec so often, its differs depending on the dungeon and raid boss i am going to kill. So that fury build you assumed i had to check myself, makes you look not very smart for jumping to conclusions without any facts. My build has nothing to do with people pm'ing me "sorry no warriors, they are in a bad state right now". I am not making this !@#$ up from my %^-, you may or may not have countered this before but it doesn't mean its not happening to other people. Get your head out of the sand please.


Cute, but no cigar. People often look you up on armory, and if they see you with that spec, any decent player will reject you. That's not a "for fun spec for pvp". It's a retarded setup, copied from the "BIS raid spec" before our Dmg taken punishment was nerfed from 30% to 20%.

That build is useless for mythic+ and bad, however usable in raids. That's a raid build. Stop flaming the community for not picking you for high-level mythic+ if you yourself can improve a lot.

Peace and happy new year...

Edit:
I see you changed your spec since last time I wrote to you. Double Time isn't needed in Mythic+ as you won't move around like a mad man at a raid encounter (even in this week, if the mobs are on the lose, do not keep overaggroing your tank!!). Warpaint is still sheit. If you find yourself needing the 5% damage reduction, you're standing in fire you shouldn't be standing in.

Edit 2: is this the guide you used and never cared to get updated about? http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fury-warrior-pve-dps-spec-builds-talents
This was last updated end of november, and even back then that spec was horribly outdated...
31/12/2016 14:39Posted by Señortaco
31/12/2016 14:05Posted by Asulgard
There is no need to look at myself but you obviously need to take your own advice as you assume the talent build you see on someone's profile is set in stone and also for assuming it is for raiding/mythic+. That was my spec for random BG fun as fury and not even serious pvp, as i do my serious pvping in arms spec. I change spec so often, its differs depending on the dungeon and raid boss i am going to kill. So that fury build you assumed i had to check myself, makes you look not very smart for jumping to conclusions without any facts. My build has nothing to do with people pm'ing me "sorry no warriors, they are in a bad state right now". I am not making this !@#$ up from my %^-, you may or may not have countered this before but it doesn't mean its not happening to other people. Get your head out of the sand please.


Cute, but no cigar. People often look you up on armory, and if they see you with that spec, any decent player will reject you. That's not a "for fun spec for pvp". It's a retarded setup, copied from the "BIS raid spec" before our Dmg taken punishment was nerfed from 30% to 20%.

That build is useless for mythic+ and bad, however usable in raids. That's a raid build. Stop flaming the community for not picking you for high-level mythic+ if you yourself can improve a lot.

Peace and happy new year...

Edit:
I see you changed your spec since last time I wrote to you. Double Time isn't needed in Mythic+ as you won't move around like a mad man at a raid encounter (even in this week, if the mobs are on the lose, do not keep overaggroing your tank!!). Warpaint is still sheit. If you find yourself needing the 5% damage reduction, you're standing in fire you shouldn't be standing in.

Edit 2: is this the guide you used and never cared to get updated about? http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fury-warrior-pve-dps-spec-builds-talents
This was last updated end of november, and even back then that spec was horribly outdated...


So you're telling people who have higher Raid progression than you that they are bad because of the "spec" they have on their WoW profile? :thinking:

Don't mind me, I'm just feeding the troll.
Literally no-one says that, Warriors are one of the best melee for Mythic+ and strong as hell for Raids, the victim complex is strong.
31/12/2016 14:39Posted by Señortaco
31/12/2016 14:05Posted by Asulgard
There is no need to look at myself but you obviously need to take your own advice as you assume the talent build you see on someone's profile is set in stone and also for assuming it is for raiding/mythic+. That was my spec for random BG fun as fury and not even serious pvp, as i do my serious pvping in arms spec. I change spec so often, its differs depending on the dungeon and raid boss i am going to kill. So that fury build you assumed i had to check myself, makes you look not very smart for jumping to conclusions without any facts. My build has nothing to do with people pm'ing me "sorry no warriors, they are in a bad state right now". I am not making this !@#$ up from my %^-, you may or may not have countered this before but it doesn't mean its not happening to other people. Get your head out of the sand please.


Cute, but no cigar. People often look you up on armory, and if they see you with that spec, any decent player will reject you. That's not a "for fun spec for pvp". It's a retarded setup, copied from the "BIS raid spec" before our Dmg taken punishment was nerfed from 30% to 20%.

That build is useless for mythic+ and bad, however usable in raids. That's a raid build. Stop flaming the community for not picking you for high-level mythic+ if you yourself can improve a lot.

Peace and happy new year...

Edit:
I see you changed your spec since last time I wrote to you. Double Time isn't needed in Mythic+ as you won't move around like a mad man at a raid encounter (even in this week, if the mobs are on the lose, do not keep overaggroing your tank!!). Warpaint is still sheit. If you find yourself needing the 5% damage reduction, you're standing in fire you shouldn't be standing in.

Edit 2: is this the guide you used and never cared to get updated about? http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fury-warrior-pve-dps-spec-builds-talents
This was last updated end of november, and even back then that spec was horribly outdated...


I picked double time for world quests but Its official you are braindead, no need to discuss stuff with you any further. You arent aware of how easy to change specs i guess. Keep your intelligence to yourself and stop making yourself look bad.
I feel the need to chime in on this.

1. People typically only have good class knowledge of their mains, they aren't going to be kicking people from the groups for a minor talent choice optimisation, generally because they probably know much less about the class than the person they are inviting. People rarely if-ever armory people they are inviting to Mythic +, if they want to inspect you they can do it in game.

2. Double Time in M+. Standard practice is to take Shockwave but you can take Double Time if you have enough stuns already, for example a Prot Warrior and 2 Demon Hunters, you're already hitting heavy stun DR. Outside of dungeons in PVE you take Double Time for everything, its the default choice.

3. Warpaint. This is the standard choice for raiding on progression where high mobility isn't needed, I always take Bounding Stride personally but honestly what does it even matter, all 3 talents have their uses.

Regarding dps talents in Mythic +, lets just look at some sims at around ilvl880.(M= Massacre, A = Avatar, C = Carnage, WB = Wrecking Ball).

Single Target - 4% difference between top 2.

M+A = 443k
C+A = 425k
M+WB = 417k
C+WB = 402k

Sustained Cleave (3tar) - 1.5% difference between top 2.

C+WB = 485k
C+A = 478K
M+WB = 466K
M+A = 458k

These sims and basic logic would suggest that Carnage + Avatar is a good solid all-round choice for for both single target and cleave, since WB is so far behind on single target. Massacre is decent too situationally but weakened by not being able to keep Juggernaut stacks up.

The only obvious choice for Massacre in Mythic + is Eye of Azshara, and while WB performs really well on trash clearing you sacrifice a lot of boss damage for it, while Avatar is less of a sacrifice (not to mention you can plan its use, for most effectiveness).

But wait there is more - What if you're in a situation where Executes are more plentiful, in larger AOE packs.

https://i.gyazo.com/f9a6cf7f57c2b5820f206aefd09cb4f3.png - Hectic Add cleave (Boss + add frequent waves, 5mins duration). Less than 3% between top and bottom talent build.

Sim shows that with consistent waves of adds spawning at intervals the Carnage + Avatar falls behind a little, because you spend a lot of the time dpsing the adds without your cooldowns. Your priority boss damage is strong but damage to the adds is lower, but the actual numerical difference is tiny, it amounts to around 17k dps at 600k, your RNG varies more than that.

Carnage + Avatar is popular because it works well in almost all scenarios, it's a good one size fits all solution.
What happened to 2 Bazz?
Wish people would reply to posts rather than up/downvote, you have no context over what is being up/downvoted when there are no replies. I made a post to point out the fruitlessness of arguing about talents in Mythic +, given the minor differences in overall performance, supported my post with simulations, to dispell this nonsense by Senortaco to attack the OP.

Contribute to discussion and reply, rather than feed the trend lately of up/down vote circle jerks.

01/01/2017 20:47Posted by Ashblock
What happened to 2 Bazz?

Eh?
OP is a typical warrior over exaggerating things just like 3rd wave feminist activist do these days who wants special rights.

NO the issue is not that you are a warrior. The issue is the system that all dps have to face when joining mythic+ as pug.

ITEM LEVEL why would any1 take your 885 item level when there are quite a bit out there with higher one?!
The community is so cursed about this one indicator about your character that its only brings cancer to this game.

Anyway stop whining its not warrior its being a dps. reroll tank and enjoy every invite to any difficulity even as 870ilvl
01/01/2017 22:46Posted by Bigbazz
to dispell this nonsense by Senortaco to attack the OP.

Contribute to discussion and reply, rather than feed the trend lately of up/down vote circle jerks.


How many times do you think will these people who can't even simulate their own proper set up, heck can't even keep up-to-date with the proper specs, will use Avatar on an appropriate trash pull weighing in the time the group kills an AoE pack vs. the time before the next boss encounter begins? My guess is very few.

If he knew how to do this and knew about the benefits of Avatar, when used correctly, he wouldn't be asking questions in here.

Open your eyes and return to the battlefield instead of your lab, mate. You'll see that I'm not all wrong. In a controled environment, some things work better than other things. In reality, it might be a different story that wins you the game. Sims don't account for healers needing mana or tanks making inefficient pulls.
02/01/2017 05:44Posted by Señortaco
01/01/2017 22:46Posted by Bigbazz
to dispell this nonsense by Senortaco to attack the OP.

Contribute to discussion and reply, rather than feed the trend lately of up/down vote circle jerks.


How many times do you think will these people who can't even simulate their own proper set up, heck can't even keep up-to-date with the proper specs, will use Avatar on an appropriate trash pull weighing in the time the group kills an AoE pack vs. the time before the next boss encounter begins? My guess is very few.

If he knew how to do this and knew about the benefits of Avatar, when used correctly, he wouldn't be asking questions in here.

Open your eyes and return to the battlefield instead of your lab, mate. You'll see that I'm not all wrong. In a controled environment, some things work better than other things. In reality, it might be a different story that wins you the game. Sims don't account for healers needing mana or tanks making inefficient pulls.

I used sims to show my point because they are more objective than only using personal experience and opinion, they show how talents perform in a controlled environment. If you're playing Mythic + with any relevance then you're doing high level runs with good players, and you're planning your use of cooldowns, potions, bloodlust etc.

If you're doing "whatever" levels of random Mythic + farming then none of it matters either way. Healers needing mana or tanks making inefficient pulls are not things that make Avatar worse than Wrecking Ball, it's not a valid argument here. Arguably a mana break works in Avatars favour by creating time to allow its cooldown to come off.

Also, why do you make your post assuming the player doesn't know what he's doing? You've literally used an argument here that his talent choice is wrong because he's not good enough to make the most of it. You grilled him for wrong talents when his talents were fine and then you come back with an argument saying "he's too !@#$ to make the most of them"..

I mean what is going on here? egomaniac trip.
In the early stages of M+ (when having KS conqueror was a big thing to have) I did have problems at getting into groups. Got denied for just being fury and not arms but lately I've not had problems at all. When I was hunting for KS master I got accepted into about 50% of the groups I signed up for and I think it's a big thing considering most of the time I was the only melee in the group.
02/01/2017 10:37Posted by Goriel
In the early stages of M+ (when having KS conqueror was a big thing to have) I did have problems at getting into groups. Got denied for just being fury and not arms but lately I've not had problems at all. When I was hunting for KS master I got accepted into about 50% of the groups I signed up for and I think it's a big thing considering most of the time I was the only melee in the group.


To be fair though, in the early days Fury was woefully undertuned while Arms was overtuned, in Mythic + early days Arms Warriors would beat every single other spec on boss damage quite often, while they didn't have the AOE of DH's/Monks they did have the best single target for shorter fights.

Then Arms got nerfed, and then nerfed again while Fury got buffs, so they were much more equal. Arms is still arguably as good as Fury for M+ but requires a lot more skill/timing due to the reliance on cooldowns for Arms to function on multiple targets, you have more room for error with Fury, which is why it's quite an attractive spec for generic Mythic + farming.

With my alt Fury Warrior I 2 chested a +9 a few weeks ago with 855 gear, the spec performs really well overall as a fairly easy to play jack of all trades, master of none kinda dps. And I think the stigma of it being poor has faded a lot in the Mythic+ scene. It's in raids where it struggles a little, longer more single target orientated fights.
From end of Panda warrior was only getting !@#$ on as class. We lost 2 stuns, stuncharge, selfdispell on roots, range kick, root, banners, shieldwall, now we also lost root charge as it seems on ptr, we lost hamstring off gcd which is another nerf on dmg. So yea......

....I guess we can expect only more %^-*
01/01/2017 12:46Posted by Ashblock
Literally no-one says that, Warriors are one of the best melee for Mythic+ and strong as hell for Raids, the victim complex is strong.


It's pretty ridiculous, isn't it? Arms is one of (if not the best) performing melee DPS in the game when it comes to single target, yet people talk about it as if it's 100k DPS behind everyone else.

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