Issue of Windwalkers : a weapon matter

Class Development
Hello, I want to talk about a problematic situation that you may have read about if you've followed recent discussions about balance (especially CoF trinket) : WW's scaling issue.

There are 2 reasons why WW has currently the worst ilvl scaling in all Legion specs :

-Haste and legendaries
Haste is overall our worst secondary stat, mainly because it doesn't fit most of our gameplay phases and few spells benefit from it. If we have too much haste we just spend energy too fast, ending up with greater gaps in our rotations.
You'll tell me "yeah okay no big deal", but this is much more anoying when all of your legendaries (all the windwalker specific legs) except 7.1.5 chest Emperor's "Capacitor" have haste on them, including our 2 possible rings : March of the Legion and Sephuz.

Weapon's damages
The biggest problem is that all of our melee techniques don't scale on our Weapon's damages (except Strike of the Windlord which represents at best 15% of our overall damage input). So when all other melee specs scale from decently to extremely good on their weapon's ilvl (even caster dps specs actually, yes), we only benefit from the stats on them. Which results in my third point.

Relics
As our weapon's ilvl don't matter much, an optimal weapon is just one with 3 Fists of Fury relics (+5% damage/each on our main singletarget and multitarget damage source). It is consequently hard to improve our Fists' ilvl (hopefully NH have FoF relics) while staying opti. With 2P T19 bonus, Rising Sun Kick (+5% dmg relic) necomes interesting, but that's in imaginary pure singletarget situations, so FoF will remain godlike, ScK being only competitive on a higher ilvl relic. The case is worse than Paladins getting multiple Crusade relics, because THEIR weapon's damages matter.
I think that specs like this shouldn't exist, it just breaks loot system, makes any personal choice of gameplay from relics impossible; and WW is by far the most extreme here.

With all of that, situation is that dps monks need to get buff via hotfix every week for at least a month after new gear release so they can stay competitive. Else their damage input will just plummet to the far bottom, compared to all dps specs which scale better.
I see 2 simple solutions : review WW legendaries secondary stats, and calculate a good scaling of our melee techniques on Fists' damages.
Oh, I can add a third one : revert this 0 sense overnerf on Converge of Fates trinket, all of NightHold trinkets already suck enough, we need at least one to be good for us.
Tell me what you think about it, if you agree or help me improve/replace solutions we could make it real.

A windwalker lover.
Make haste more useful by simple adding sotwl to use 2-5(6) chi and the more chi you spend the more damage it will do. Just similar to chi-explosion in a way.

Will atleast make haste a more valueable stat and increase our ST dps.

I mean sometimes on a pure ST dps fight you are forced to use sck, atleast if you are playing with energizing elixir and that feels bad, just like when warrior's had to use whirlwind on st as filler, in our case we just have to spend overflowing chi which is pretty much the same.
26/01/2017 10:55Posted by Toph
If we have too much haste we just spend energy too fast, ending up with greater gaps in our rotations.


Isn't haste increase energy regeneration ?
28/01/2017 07:51Posted by Luratharion
26/01/2017 10:55Posted by Toph
If we have too much haste we just spend energy too fast, ending up with greater gaps in our rotations.


Isn't haste increase energy regeneration ?


Yeah it does, but rly average ratio, and because of the shorter GCDs we end up spending energy then chi too fast four our techniques to recover (FoF, ScK).
Gotta admit my point on Haste needs someone more expert than me, like a good theorycrafter cause I've never played with too much haste but I can see how little we gain dps during Heroism for example compared to other specs, and how every experts rate haste low.
bump
Bump
Fix damn CoF for WW...I want a trinket from the current content and not hope for an WF from old content...
yup, reverting CoF nerf for Windwalkers would be a good short-term solution ....

but I really think easiest way is make weapon matter, will solve long term issues
I wanted to create a new thread, but since there is one already I will share my thoughts here.

I had the llusion that WW were great cleave dmg dealers, but the truth is that they are not. I don't say they are the worst but surely not top 5. By checking the warcraftlogs I couldn't but only to notice that in Single target fights there were none in top 100 and in cleave fights also you couldn't see any top 100 WW. You could only see ppl in heavy AOE fights were spinning crane kick is used.

-ST : terrible dmg
-Cleave : mediocre
-AOE : really good

I also want to mention that ST and Cleave dmg rotation have the same rotation and probably here lies the problem with WW. Blizzard is so afraid to tune the ST on par with other classes because then the cleave dmg will skyrocket. ST rotation has 3 AOE buttons to press and tuning them for both ST + Cleave is probably tricky.

FInally, Haste is bad mainly because that extra energy will become chi and those extra chis will most likely become Black out kicks which we all know they do poor dmg. There is really not much you can do with that extra energy if you try to use FoF + RSK + SotW on CD.

I can't see a fix to this because blizzard devs are not paying attention at all to windwalkers. The worst part of playing an undertuned class is gear. I prefer my gear to go to another class first that actually can do dmg.

If blizzard devs want to share their thoughts about windwalkers we are ready to hear them, but I doubt they even care or paying attention, which was so obvious with that weird choice, of giving that taunt statue as a talent for WW and ofc the tuning they did on 7.1.5. Yet they buffed assa rogues a week ago which was so weird.
actually we're only top performers on fights with medium-length periods of AoE (many targets) soo in NH NM/HM : Aluriel (but aoe phase aren't frequent enough), Skorpyron and uh Tichondrius ? On last raids, we had only Helya out of 10 bosses, improvements !
and well even in such fights, many dps specs can also deal a lot compared to us

the only thing we're excellent at is rushing on prio adds with few HP and burst them down, but that's not something we'll see on dps charts and in NM/HM, I believe this perk is only needed on Tichondrius
I understand the martial arts fantasy of monk but isn't that why they gave us fist weapons over swords?

Should weapon damage not play a part in our dps?
11/02/2017 01:27Posted by Toph
I believe this perk is only needed on Tichondrius


Well, in Gul'dan HC too, for the third eye. Also mobility is cool on crosus for helping in the back in mythic. The thing is that DH have godly mobility too, but also insane ST, Cleave, AoE dmg.

There are possibly other classes with the same problems, such as feral dudus, that need some love, but I don't see a tuning soon. It is very dissapointing to know that you play a bad class, to wait for the major patch 7.1.5 to get tuned correctly and witness the same things that always happen with blizz.

The worst thing is that there is no indication that they acknowledge the situation. There should be a monthly report from them on how they see classes perform what are their plans with them, but as I said they don't care, their focus is on releasing content, which is also badly tuned and will be nerfed to the ground soon.
DH are overpowered for sure

I wouldn't say WW monk is bad tho, I'd rather say they're decent, but as ilvl climbs we'll fall behind ...
I think it's important this issue is solved with 7.2
Its the DH expansion.

They got superior dmg, cleave and mobility while pushing 2 buttons while monks fall way behind no matter how hard they try.

Does blizzard care? nope. But wait, CoF trinket brings monk a bit more out of the gutter better nerf that fast!
I'm still beating DH's, rogues are the ones I can't touch on single target :p
PTR patches are going on, and still nothing about this issue has been revealed or talked...
Blizzard why are u ignoring us! Please do something about the CoF trinket and about the ilvl scaling problems,
but no that's way to hard to do for a class that don't get upsett and revolt when things don't change. Why do u only listen to them?
Hoping to see something on the ptr soon
!@#$ing push
I really hate how hard i try and how low dps i get... :| always bottom dpser huhu

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