PvP Discussion With the Devs

Class Development
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Hi!

I was wondering if Blizzard has any intentions in discussing PvP game-play anytime "soon"?

Reading the PvP forums and playing the game myself has brought up lots of good important questions in the PvP community i think would warrant some careful looking in to.

If any Blizzard employee could take a moment to shed some light on the situation it would be greatly appreciated!
Specific questions are generally easier for us to answer than broad "please talk about <insert topic>"-style posts, but this one actually gives a good opportunity to share some of our general thoughts about PvP at the moment.

Regarding overall class balance: in Arenas, we're overall pretty happy with it at the moment. We've been hearing a lot about the prevalence of Rogue/Mage comps lately, and may end up making some changes, but we're more likely to focus on buffing some underperformers than specifically nerfing anyone right now. To put it another way: Rogue/Mage is (and should continue to be) a strong comp, we just want to make sure there's a good number of other strong comps as well.

We made some changes not long ago to Random BG matchmaking to help with healer balance, and have been very happy with the initial results. There's still some edge cases we're looking to iron out (specifically, we're sometimes seeing games where one team has 2 healers and the other has none), and so we're still working on some additional improvements. So far, though, there's been a very noticeable difference overall.

Lastly I'll mention that we're planning another PvP-focused Live Dev Q&A, probably sometime around early to mid March. We'll get a proper announcement out once we've finalized all the details.
10/02/2017 21:45Posted by Lore
Specific questions are generally easier for us to answer than broad "please talk about <insert topic>"-style posts, but this one actually gives a good opportunity to share some of our general thoughts about PvP at the moment.

Regarding overall class balance: in Arenas, we're overall pretty happy with it at the moment. We've been hearing a lot about the prevalence of Rogue/Mage comps lately, and may end up making some changes, but we're more likely to focus on buffing some underperformers than specifically nerfing anyone right now. To put it another way: Rogue/Mage is (and should continue to be) a strong comp, we just want to make sure there's a good number of other strong comps as well.

We made some changes not long ago to Random BG matchmaking to help with healer balance, and have been very happy with the initial results. There's still some edge cases we're looking to iron out (specifically, we're sometimes seeing games where one team has 2 healers and the other has none), and so we're still working on some additional improvements. So far, though, there's been a very noticeable difference overall.

Lastly I'll mention that we're planning another PvP-focused Live Dev Q&A, probably sometime around early to mid March. We'll get a proper announcement out once we've finalized all the details.


I'd like some spriest love..I know that everything is working as intended ;)
Buuut, I know it..You know it..Voidform is not for PvP, you get shut down easily and since we were a tad bit too strong in PvE we suffered in PvP..I'd be alright with the dmg nerf if we got some old spells back so it feels like we're more than a dot/ silence machine.
I'm not the best player but even I can notice that something could probably be done, I'd say just give us horrify back with a mana cost or like..A cost of 25/15 insanity. Or like Spectral guise to help somewhat against the rabbid chipmunk melee attacks :p

Just my thoughts on the matter doe ;D
10/02/2017 21:45Posted by Lore
we're more likely to focus on buffing some underperformers


Arms Warrior has pretty bad damage.
10/02/2017 21:45Posted by Lore
Rogue/Mage is (and should continue to be) a strong comp,


The problem you've got is when RMX can do very little CC and spam damage due to high PVE damage and MS effect something has gone wrong, as they actually have amazing CC! The CC comes in and BAM the comp is silly.
@Lore
So... you're actually happy with fact that Vengeance DH, Brewmaster monk and Blood DK have nearly no arena representation due to modifiers that destroy them completely (25% more damage taken, low damage output comparing to other classes, class-specific spell modifiers, etc)?
And it is not arena exclusive - best Flag Carriers atm are probably still balance druids.
Those three can't even fit for a bruiser style - they fall too fast because of above.

Guardians were weak - you've changed their damage taken from extra 25 to 10, pumped-up their damage, gave them some utility... they are viable (in bgs mostly).
Warriors (Prot) - they now take only 15% more, got some damage boost - they are bruisers and quite fun to play in skilled hands.
Paladins - it is a different story; they somewhat double as the healer while being labeled as tank. :) They take that 25% more damage (too much, tbh, 15% would be fairer), but have a lot of mitigation and rather good utility. I still think they need a bit of tweaking, but seem fairly ok.
But Brew / Veng / Blood - are very weak now. It's not only me talking:
look at the charts / ladders; look what comps are there in rated bgs.

Since you mentioned PvP-focused Q&A, my question is: will you do something to make those tanks PvP viable, just as Holinka promised they would be?
Highly Rated
nerf rogue mage
putting concerns about rogue / mage aside, (but I don't get why it "should" be a good comp, it's been a "good" comp since s12 and then before that aswell, when no other comp really perseveres in such a fashion?) class tuning needs to happen asap, just make everything overtuned. People only feel like something is ridiculous if they have no chance to actually win, and the easiest fix to this before a patch to make mechanical changes is just to make everything do broken damage/healing. Game was most recently in a good state in s15, which was because of EVERYTHING being good.

P.S 7.2 is too late for changes, so unless there is a 7.1.75 planned with mechancial honor talent changes that unprune classes the game will be completely dead by s3, right now its bad enough.

P.S.S When can we expect a set of class tuning hotfixes for the underperformers, as you put it?
10/02/2017 22:16Posted by Rottingcod
Since you mentioned PvP-focused Q&A, my question is: will you do something to make those tanks PvP viable, just as Holinka promised they would be?


No one wants to fight tanks in arenas.
they need to start unpruning every non rmd class if they want the game to be decent at all. Any specific reason as a MW monk that my slow/root, kick & disarm (and more) have all been pruned with nothing in return?
im extremely disappointed in this, the tournament level/pro players are giving you feedback constantly and you arnt taking it, obviously it looks like we are trolling when we say stuff like "remove mage" but its actually pathetic you dont realise how unfun and unbalanced the game is when rogue mage is ALWAYS t1
If you are happy with current balance in arenas then you are in deep denial.
likely to focus on buffing some underperformers


which classes are you reffering to

could you give us more detials?
lmao
Everything's fine mon. I think arenas are OK, maybe some do more than the others but this is how it is, and the balance is fine for the moment.
..

Nerf RMD already, it's not fun to play against, the synergy they have is impossible for other classes to handle due to class design. Basically they just have too much for other classes to handle unless you buff other classes damage by X%, but then the game becomes a clownfiesta of oneshotting.

You made this happen with pruning.
honestly, I wouldn't bother with the Q&A's unless you get some sort of 'vote for questions' system going.

Right now your q&a system is an absolute joke, you just softball waffle questions to yourself and answer nothing.

Rogue/Mage is (and should continue to be) a strong comp, we just want to make sure there's a good number of other strong comps as well.

Whats the argument for this statement? That rogue mage should continue to be a strong comp?

Also how come you want RMX to stay a strong comp and instead buffing underperforming classes when you just nerfed WW, Destro and Rshaman in 3vs3? Literally the only comp that had a chance vs RMD. Do you not want Lock/shaman to be a strong comp? Why didn't you go with the same attitude about wwls being strong as you are with RMD being ridicolous (Literally never been a point where a comp has dominated ladder as much as RMD is atm)? VIZ. you want to buff underperforming specs instead.

Also, every player that wants to play at high rating in this game will have to be somewhat "fotm" and play a comp thats good for your spec. That means that almost every class has had to change comps from season to season to stay competetive, and therefore playing with new players and befriending new players that way, which is what WoW is all about, meeting new players and sharing your experiences together. But if you play a rogue, mage or a druid you could literally have stuck together since MoP, never having to try and find new partners.

I try not to be a crying PvPer and just whine about the current state of the game, I can appreciate Legion arenas every now and then. And to be honest I don't have any idea how you should fix the (PvP) version of this game. There's no way you can come here and say " in Arenas, we're overall pretty happy with it at the moment." about class balance. Why are you lying to yourselves at the meetings at Blizzard? Why are you lying to your playerbase? There are obvious flaws in PvP atm and specifically arenas. And I'm not saying nerfing RMD is the way to go. There's too many major game changes that has to happen for the game to become enjoyable again. Like people above me stated, the game was the most fun when EVERYTHING WAS OP. But being OP in Legion wont fix it either way, the game is bad and Blizzard did this to themselves. Pruning, changing core spells for specs (Tigereye brew WW, Shadow Dance Rogue etc...) are a few examples of stuff that made the game worse.

Im sadened to type this but WoW PvP wont recover from this, I will still play it because every now and then you actually get enjoyable arenas in this patch, it's also fun to play with your friends that you've met from playing arenas in the past. But I don't see PvP being fun and competetive again this expansion, too many changes within the game has to happen and thats something that will have to come with a new expansion, and I fear that by then, too many people would have drifted away from WoW PvP.
10/02/2017 21:45Posted by Lore

To put it another way: Rogue/Mage is (and should continue to be) a strong comp,

[/quote]

This is where you blizzard devs need to reconsider, Rogue/mage/x is and should be a strong comp, IF PLAYED EXTREMELY GOOD/PERFECTLY.
Ps. Playing extremely good does -not- mean: kidney on DR-> top dps meter(as it is right now)
pls nerf rmx
nerf resto druids 0.2 casts, this isnt Mop anymore is it?
its especially painful to watch as warrior when u know that u cant do nothing to enemy RMDruid that stands 40 yards away and spams 0.2 casts while his assa/fire pve minions destroy ur team, then he blinks in for a bash once in a while and suddenly u already lost the game in another random kidney/sheep/vendetta/any other random bull!@#$ burst or cc.
also my rdruid just got deleted thru trinket+skin+last stand by random frostMage+sub team in opener at 2.4k mmr, literally 100-0 in 4 seconds of cheap shots, SeemsGood

also fix this:


1) sap bug. in 95% of times when rogue vanishes next to enemies they drop combat (so he is able to sap ur healer any time he vanishes next to him basically). this bug ingame since like WoD. many ppl abuse it to get the cheated kill from time to time. some use it all the time coz why not.

2) pet combat bug. ppl spam /petattack arena1,2,3 and get in combat before their pets even cross half of the map towards enemy.

3) marks drop off in arena from person that used Shadowmeld/MageInvis/Vanish etc. bug ingame since like MoP or even Cata. pretty annoying and still a thing.

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