This is why Retri needs a buff, with proof

Paladin
Alright, I have played 2 characters from the start of Legion. I have a fury warrior and retri paladin.

Paladin : 897 equipped, 4 piece set, 2 bis legs(ring and belt), 53 traits and good itemization(stats), bis trinkets.

Warrior : 896 equipped, 2 piece set(NOT even 4), 2 utility legs (boots and m+ ring, not even damage legendaries), 50 traits and bad itemization (low haste) but bis trinkets.

Paladin sims for 593k dps
Fury sims for 660k dps.

And in game its even worse, i am getting worse results from my retri and better results from my fury warrior, considering my war doesnt have ANY of the dps legendaries and only 2 piece set and lower traits.

My warrior link here :

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/outland/Asulgard/simple

So yeah, blizzard really needs to do something about retribution dps.
Posting on my warrior so people can check it without clicking the link I posted above.
So where is proof?
06/02/2017 22:27Posted by Elaynne
So where is proof?

I cant fix your intelligence, sorry mate
I am in casual guild, we like to have fun while playing and we are doing ok.
Everyone who raids is between ilvl 888 and 895, we did nighthold normal and few bossed on heroic.
I go on every raid, and always i am at top of dps, even after nerf.
Have only one dps legendary, its ring, 2 set item, weapon is rank 41 only and still i am always at top, never below third place as retribution.
I am tanking mythic+ most of the time, as prot i have max weapon rank, 54.

I go as retribution only in raids and sometimes i go in some mythic+.
Due cleave fights in mythics and nighthold raid, i am never below 600k, i am only 890 ilvl as ret, so outdps furry warrior is not a problem even if he is 5ish ilvl higher than me, did that couple of times.

Why i am writing all of this?

Retribution paladin is still one of strongest dps class in game, go check top raiding guilds u will see retribution at top all the time, so i realy dont know what u are talking about here, retribution with good gear and talents can do insane dmg.

U have FcM trinket and u use Divine hammer?

Gear u have is capable of doing much more than 600k that u simmed....
I would like to see you playing in raid or mythic+ and give us some logs.

Then you will have the proof for people to actually see the difference.
You're making the wrong comparison comparing us to warriors though, warriors have always been the top dps class in wow and blizzard seems to never want to change that, sadly.

But yeah, ret definitely needs a buff for single target, but many classes do really. What I dont understand is why they nerfed us with the crusade change when we werent even top dps at the time, we were middle of the pack dps.

I'd like to see a buff to divine purpose and replacement for holy wrath maybe something that could significantly buff the base abilities of ret to allocate some dps away from templars verdict/divine storm as having 1 ability to 45-50% of your dps is pretty silly. As is the fact that our dps after crusade is so neglectable that we might not even be considered a dps.
07/02/2017 12:46Posted by Asulgard
06/02/2017 22:27Posted by Elaynne
So where is proof?

I cant fix your intelligence, sorry mate


Honey, your thread says that proof is included. I dont see any logs ,pictures or anything even remotely representing proof.
your nightmare egg shell maybe a little weak because of being at required haste already.
you're probably better of with a str crit stat stick.
07/02/2017 21:27Posted by Elaynne

Honey, your thread says that proof is included. I dont see any logs ,pictures or anything even remotely representing proof.

maybe I can help?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#boss=1842
Krosus (mythic)
the first paladin of retribution appears to 176 place ilv 902 dps -746k
at the same boss in the same list 8-9 places are occupied by fury warrior 899 -902ilv dps 833k-831k
The 13th fury warrior 897ilv -823k

enjoy.
07/02/2017 21:27Posted by Elaynne
<span class="truncated">...</span>
I cant fix your intelligence, sorry mate


Honey, your thread says that proof is included. I dont see any logs ,pictures or anything even remotely representing proof.


It is completely !@#$ing retarded how you're getting downvoted for asking a legitimate question. The OP is NOT GIVING REAL PROOF.

I know the WOW forums are notorious for being utter crap but this has got to stop. There are probably more Ret players lurking here than Reddit/discord, so please do yourselves a favour and ignore the OP's crying.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#difficulty=4

These are logs of Ret Paladins against Fury Warriors in Heroic NH in the last 2 weeks, at the 75th percentile, and they are neck and neck for basically every single fight. On top of that, they are a top 10 spec.

To the OP, next time you want to compare classes, try not using a simulator and one sample size. I cannot even begin to fathom how you got so many upvotes for posting blatantly inaccurate information, jesus %^-*ing christ.
Like from me:)
you're just bad
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#sample=7

We're talking about the same class that was almost top DPS for some time in 7.1/NH release, the same class that was used in Mythic WF progression and the same class that's doing absolutely fine in terms of numbers.

Why is this forum so bad for producing such negative attitudes without the backbone to support it?
08/02/2017 13:23Posted by Lowspí
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#sample=7

We're talking about the same class that was almost top DPS for some time in 7.1/NH release, the same class that was used in Mythic WF progression and the same class that's doing absolutely fine in terms of numbers.

Why is this forum so bad for producing such negative attitudes without the backbone to support it?


Thank you. Middle of the pack with only 3% behind top 5
08/02/2017 14:32Posted by Elaynne
08/02/2017 13:23Posted by Lowspí
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#sample=7

We're talking about the same class that was almost top DPS for some time in 7.1/NH release, the same class that was used in Mythic WF progression and the same class that's doing absolutely fine in terms of numbers.

Why is this forum so bad for producing such negative attitudes without the backbone to support it?


Thank you. Middle of the pack with only 3% behind top 5


Ive upvoted u <3
I agree with initial post. This is something people from casual guild never understood.

You can try as much as you can and you will never be on the top after so many nerfs.

First of all - since the NIghthold was launched and progressions started the people died during fights so our so called RETRIBUTION passive buffed us pretty often.

However, how people learn each BOSS they just dont die anymore and we lose dmg. We might have been on the first positions from begining but now we are in second half and there is no boss that we excel in.

I believe the numbers talk for themselves.

If you just see Nighthold dps rankings we are pretty much on approx. 15th place.
Q_Q my class is no longer FotM. Idiot.

Edit: You know it'd be neigh impossible to balance the classes so perfectly that they do completely the same dps; and how boring would that be? Even then how do Blizzard account for human error? One class has to be top, one class will be bottom. Retri is extremely good and in a very strong position - be happy you're not a clunky, broken and heavily RNG based class.
08/02/2017 22:00Posted by Pzykie
Q_Q my class is no longer FotM. Idiot.

Edit: You know it'd be neigh impossible to balance the classes so perfectly that they do completely the same dps; and how boring would that be? Even then how do Blizzard account for human error? One class has to be top, one class will be bottom. Retri is extremely good and in a very strong position - be happy you're not a clunky, broken and heavily RNG based class.


I'm not really sure if Ret has been FoTM this expansion. If you watch melee ranking videos on YT just at the start of the Legion a lot of people claimed Retribution paladin rotation is clunky and overall underwhelming. A lot has changed since then. I do agree Ret in it's current state is still strong, but definitely not FoTM. I strongly believe that title belongs to either Shadow Priests or Guardian Druids. Shadow Priests in 7.1 were able to TOP DPS in every fight in Emerald Nightmare and Trial of Valor for nearly half a year in total. Regardless of fight. When it comes to Guardian Druids they are just extremely well designed - class provides a lot of utility with AoE speed and Brez, huge health pool that leaves more room for mistakes and versatile defensive cooldowns for pretty much any type of encounter. Not to mention their damage. i'm not saying they are op - i just wish more classes were that well thought.

You're right pointing out that one class will always be on top and if so one class will have to be bottom tier. Unfortunately i also believe you should never place a class with just 1 DPS spec on bottom ( just to clarify i don't believe ret is bottom atm ) because if you will we will have Burning Crusade v2 where paladin was basically a healbot and people were refering to Retribution as Retardins or Lolrets which was extremely rude and generated hatred towards specific class not the Human Being controlling it.

Last but not least : Actually paladin is kinda RNG class. Just to mention few talents and items ppl actually play with -

Fires of Justice

Reduces the cooldown of Crusader Strike by 1.0 sec and gives it a 15% chance to reduce the cost of your next damaging or healing Holy Power ability by 1.

Blade of Wrath

Your auto attacks have a chance to reset the cooldown of Blade of Justice.

Our 4pc Nighthold Bonus

Your Holy Power generating abilities have a 20% chance to generate additional Holy Power.

Holy Power serves as main resource to cast finisher abilities so if you are lucky you either sit on tons of it and basically cast finishers over and over again or you hit like a wet noodle and ppl claim you are just bad and it's L2P issue.

There is also passive ability called Retribution :

When any party or raid member within 40 yards dies, you gain 20% increased damage done and 30% reduced damage taken for 20 seconds.

Now this is something that is either completely usless OR extremely broken. It's fine in PvP where ppl actually die but in raid condition ppl don't want to die and should generally avoid doing so. I played multiple raid encounters were i was either 6-7th or 1st 2nd thanks to that single passive ability.

One last thing - there was a time when Blessing of Might was a thing. It was 8-10% of your overall DPS on boss. You put those on 3 ppl and prayed they not only lived whole encounter but also performed well. Fortunately for us after months and months of complaining they got rid of it and blessed us with flat damage increase on skills AND Blessings that are acutally quite useful on longer fights. Healers actually LOVE Retribution paladins now. Well at least our Blessing of Wisdom ;)

I don't think complaining is is the right thing to do if you want to see some things changed but it is definitely easier to do than providing actual data. Sometimes it works sometimes it just pisses everyone around you that have it worse. I really hope one day ppl will actually enjoy game regardless of class/spec they play but that might be a wishful thinking.

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