Do you feel as if you have a "choice" ?

General
Do you feel as if you have a "choice" after logging on ?

In my opinion, no, I don't feel as if I do.

In every other xpac from BC through WoD, I felt I did. I felt I had the freedom to do what I wanted when I wanted whilst still remaining 'up to date(ish)'.

In Legion I feel as if that freedom has been COMPLETELY taken away. Daily HC's, daily quests, mythic +, they all feel OBLIGATORY. It feels OBLIGATORY to level up and acquire as many traits as possible. On the PvP side as well, it feels obligatory to grind, and grind and grind prestige.

Legion has I feel, taken mindlessness to a whole new level, and speaking with in-game friends, I'm certainly not the only one who feels this way. Quite a number of mine have said they just don't feel like even logging on, and indeed, many haven't, for days, weeks and even months.

After grinding one's dailies, AP etc, one imo feels so brain dead they just don't want to bother staying on to do anything else even though there is a lot of other content of one form or another to do within the game.

Even as someone who has always been accustomed to playing WoW many hours per day, I feel swamped with the amount of grind and time-gating within Legion.
So much so, that other than to continue my film I haven't even bothered logging on myself to do anything at all in over a month.

I feel as though with Legoin, Blizz are practically doing their hardest (in one form or another) to drive subscribers away.
Yes, nothing's stopping me from hitting that "Log out" button if I get bored.
First things first, it's great to see you posting again! Been a while!

But on topic now, I disagree but it's likely due to the fact that I've not invested as much time in Legion as other players, or perhaps my aspirations are lower. It could be that after Woelords of Draenor (aren't I a funny so-and-so), being out in the open world feels like nothing I've done before when compared to being confined to the Garrison. Even then 'confinement' is a subjective term that we've already discussed.

20/03/2017 06:05Posted by Lswindrunner
Do you feel as if you have a "choice" after logging on ?


Absolutely. I've not felt this 'free' to do whatever I want since Cataclysm. If I want to I can do Normal dungeons, HCs, LFR, world quests and bosses that I want to rather than feel the need to, and get involved in profession quests, I have the option to do so. Plus Surumar's keeping me busy, but I'm doing that more because I don't want to miss out than genuine enjoyment. In MoP I felt in order to do the content I wanted to, dailies and doing the same boring Normals were my only option. But even then my first reputations to level up were the 'cosmetic' ones, specifically the Order of the Cloud Serpent. In WoD I felt I had to log on to remain competitive with gold gain - I mean, why wouldn't you go for the copious, dizzyingly excessive amount of ore and herbs that were just sitting there, requiring maybe 10 minutes at the very most to gather. I didn't even need to do the pretty decent dungeons when my Followers could get gear for me, and carry me to LFR.

20/03/2017 06:05Posted by Lswindrunner
In Legion I feel as if that freedom has been COMPLETELY taken away. Daily HC's, daily quests, mythic +, they all feel OBLIGATORY. It feels OBLIGATORY to level up and acquire as many traits as possible. On the PvP side as well, it feels obligatory to grind, and grind and grind prestige.


I would also feel this way if I was competitive in any way, or needed to be somewhere by a certain time.. This isn't me dismissing your criticisms, I can fully appreciate the issues of people who want to do content beyond what I want to do. The only thing I feel is obligatory is the artefact power and to an extent gearing, because enemies scale with your level (and hopefully not your power). I abandoned my Paladin because I was terrible at it, and at endgame I'm unsure if my Ashbringer is going to make things better if I just put more points into it. That's a lot of time and frustration to gamble with.

20/03/2017 06:05Posted by Lswindrunner
Legion has I feel, taken mindlessness to a whole new level, and speaking with in-game friends, I'm certainly not the only one who feels this way. Quite a number of mine have said they just don't feel like even logging on, and indeed, many haven't, for days, weeks and even months.


I find part of the problem for me is the overwhelming amount of stuff to do. I'm overfaced with dungeons, WQs, finding ways to get into raiding, keeping professions in moderation and getting ready for 7.2. My complaint isn't that I'm having too much fun; it's that all these activities are fun, but I feel like I'm expected to do all of them in one sitting at times.

20/03/2017 06:05Posted by Lswindrunner
After grinding one's dailies, AP etc, one imo feels so brain dead they just don't want to bother staying on to do anything else even though there is a lot of other content of one form or another to do within the game.


At the moment I can't comment because I've still got goals to log in for. Stuff that's non-repeatable on this character. When that's gone though, that's when the burnout will set in, and before you know it I'll be levelling Archeology in Northrend to convince myself I'm having fun.

20/03/2017 06:05Posted by Lswindrunner
So much so, that other than to continue my film I haven't even bothered logging on myself to do anything at all in over a month.


How's that going by the way?

20/03/2017 06:05Posted by Lswindrunner
I feel as though with Legoin, Blizz are practically doing their hardest (in one form or another) to drive subscribers away.


The way I look at it is they're driving people away with good activities that give rewards too good to miss out on. Instead of a sense of a journey like, for example, the idea of TBC's attunements we have instead boxes to check before we move on. Instead of boss kills, we have just raw numbers to confirm when we're ready to do whatever content.

At the moment I'm having fun because I don't care for higher level content. I play HC dungeons because I enjoy them, and I'll passively get rewards from virtually anything in Legion content. The moment I feel obliged to invest into artefacts, Legendaries, world quests and bosses, dailies and so fourth, that's when I'll truly agree with where folks are coming from.
I don't agree. You always have a choice. It is your decision if you want to grind or not every day. I make time for fun every week. Clearing my fav instances, funning with friends. And do the grind as well. :)
I kinda feel "forced" to do my +15 and NH HC. Especially Gul'dan since I only got him to 6% for now.

Other than that, no.
I can see the OP's point.

If you are somebody who raids and PvPs then it is a monotonous grind. As soon as raid reset day comes round it's a new clear of the current raid normally across a couple of days. In between that it's trying to run a +15 for the weekly chest. Apart from that: World quests on alts perhaps, making a bulk of consumables (food, pots, flasks) and if there's downtime, spending a little time crafting things to sell or running specific content in the hope of a specific titanforged item.

If there's any tiny chance at getting a little better, somebody will take it and that means you'll always be behind if you decide not to. That has always been the case since Vanilla but now there are just more ways of improving therefore if you chose not to, you are more behind than ever.

If you don't do that as a raider then you'll end up behind in some way. Whether that's AP (and therefore DPS), gold, consumables or gear.

So players who don't feel they are tied down to specific actions are just very good at ignoring it. Fair play to them. I just feel there are far better games out there for pure adventure. WoW is a progression system disguised as an RPG.
"it feels" ? I think you are using the english language wrong
I feel like i have a choice and i feel like i don't have a choice at the same time.

I log in and the ap farming starts whatever i do, but at least we have a lot of options how to do it, now i look at it like something that i passively gathering while doing fun stuff.
20/03/2017 06:05Posted by Lswindrunner
In Legion I feel as if that freedom has been COMPLETELY taken away. Daily HC's, daily quests, mythic +, they all feel OBLIGATORY. It feels OBLIGATORY to level up and acquire as many traits as possible. On the PvP side as well, it feels obligatory to grind, and grind and grind prestige.

How so? I haven't touched WQ's in ages because I don't enjoy them. I haven't been to daily heroic in ages because I find that content boring and not rewarding at all. I'm still at 51 artifact traits because I have never in the entire expansion "grinded AP".

Play as you feel is best, not how you think the game would expect of you (which isn't even a thing in reality). That's how you stay entertained long term. It's perfectly fine to do things that aren't ideal from the power gaming perspective, you know.
Yes, yes & no.

Yes, I have the choice to decide whether or not I want to continue raiding at this level, knowing that doing so means I'm expected to put in work outside of raids.

Yes, I have the choice to pretty much log on & do whatever I want because I hit 54 traits in mid-Jan, and the chances of getting usable loot from a M+15 chest is so low that I don't feel like I'm missing out on too much if I don't go for it.

But no, I don't think I'll have a choice when 7.2 comes out & I'll have to push for traits again. Like I said earlier, I put myself in a position where these demands can be made of me, so it's not really a no...
20/03/2017 08:21Posted by Hardtra
I feel like i have a choice and i feel like i don't have a choice at the same time.

I log in and the ap farming starts whatever i do, but at least we have a lot of options how to do it, now i look at it like something that i passively gathering while doing fun stuff.

I think you have to look at it in a different perspective.
In all honesty, is it really fun to grind for hours everyday?
Most people agree that the grindfest is boring, and very time consuming. They don't have time to do other in-game stuff. WoW has become a second job.
You have about as much choice as an elite athlete who wants to win the Olympics - if you choose that line of work.

Don't want to feel pressured? Then stop acting as if your future depended on the perceived accomplishments in an online role-playing game!

I have the exact opposite problem: some days I feel there is just so much to do that I don't even know where to begin. So I log off and go for a run instead. Does me better in the long run anyway (no pun intended)!
First things first, it's great to see you posting again! Been a while!

20/03/2017 06:05Posted by Lswindrunner
So much so, that other than to continue my film I haven't even bothered logging on myself to do anything at all in over a month.


How's that going by the way?


Being honest that's where I've found the majority of my 'fun' in the current xpac.

The story itself, has taken me literally years to write and put together and even now I still come up with dailogue or bits of plot that I think are really neat and cool and therefore strive to put them in.

Although being writer, director, producer, photographer, editor and sound guy as well, can be a strain especially since I can be quite demanding (multiple reshoots are often required if I don't feel a particular scene is as good as it can be or should I say as good as I want it to be, and a few scenes in particular took a few weeks each until I was completely satisfied).

Part 1 which I put out last year has had a full makeover since then. A complete re-edit, new scenes filmed and put in and existing ones removed entirely.

Nevertheless, barring a few small flashbacks that I intend to get done within the next few weeks, and a small addition that I hope to get done this Friday, the 1st hour of the film is now complete.

If you would like to participate, and I'll need some help with one of the film's biggest scenes that has only ever been referred to in lore, then you are more than welcome. You will however need an Alliance character that has completed EVERY quest in the Icecrown zone otherwise you will be phased and I will not see you.

Dunno ofc when the completely finished film will be ready, just 'soon' (tm).
20/03/2017 08:37Posted by Fanazo
Most people agree that the grindfest is boring, and very time consuming. They don't have time to do other in-game stuff. WoW has become a second job.


Please, tell me, why should casual player who does LFR and Mythic dungeons have 54 traits or even farm anything? I am a casual, I have 874 item level on my main, 44 traits, yet I never farmed anything besides Suramar reputation.
Yes, mythic raiders need to have everything maxed, but all those casuals like me don´t need that. And it is only their problem if they feel WoW has become second job, because they let it to be that way. Casuals who farm for hours just to get everything are like people who play football with their friends, but train for 6 hours per day just to be the best, even though there is literally no reason to do so, because they only play with their friends who are on the same level.
20/03/2017 09:00Posted by Dorlas
20/03/2017 08:37Posted by Fanazo
Most people agree that the grindfest is boring, and very time consuming. They don't have time to do other in-game stuff. WoW has become a second job.


Please, tell me, why should casual player who does LFR and Mythic dungeons have 54 traits or even farm anything?


I am talking about casual players who wants to start raiding. I am talking about raiders who wants to stay competetive; I am talking about players in general.

Wheter it's raiders or casuals, it doesn't change a damn thing. The endless AP grind is sucking up their motivation to continue or start progressing.

The reason why I am casual, is because I have to grind AP for hours, leaving me no time to raid, and always behind competition. And I only have 4 hours of playtime everyday.
20/03/2017 09:47Posted by Fanazo
The reason why I am casual, is because I have to grind AP for hours, leaving me no time to raid, and always behind competition. And I only have 4 hours of playtime everyday.

You need 35 traits on artifact (trivial task with AK25), and you're good for HC NH all bosses. I play 0-3 hours a day, raid hours are 5 hours/week. HC NH cleared, never grinded AP. You're overvaluing the AP.
Agree with Dorlas. I don't see the need for all that grinding. I don't have a sinlge Legendary, haven't even finished the Suramar questline and my professions are also just half-way.
But I don't care. The first quests of the next expansion makes all the upgraded weapons and armor useless anyway, and also the professions start fresh.

I mostly play low-level alts these days since I skipped a lot of questzones in the past and having a lot of fun with them. Doing all those old zones, you really see the difference with Legion; Old questzones are so much better than Broken Isles. Much more to do in each zone and you really have to travel a fair bit to do them.
I also agree with OP.

Not having a weekly cap on AP and this Leg.-system, both aspects work as if we have to play 24/7.
20/03/2017 09:47Posted by Fanazo
20/03/2017 09:00Posted by Dorlas
...

Please, tell me, why should casual player who does LFR and Mythic dungeons have 54 traits or even farm anything?


I am talking about casual players who wants to start raiding. I am talking about raiders who wants to stay competetive; I am talking about players in general.

Wheter it's raiders or casuals, it doesn't change a damn thing. The endless AP grind is sucking up their motivation to continue or start progressing.

The reason why I am casual, is because I have to grind AP for hours, leaving me no time to raid, and always behind competition. And I only have 4 hours of playtime everyday.


Endless AP grind? Serious raiders capped out at 54 traits weeks/months ago, how is that endless?
20/03/2017 08:37Posted by Fanazo
20/03/2017 08:21Posted by Hardtra
I feel like i have a choice and i feel like i don't have a choice at the same time.

I log in and the ap farming starts whatever i do, but at least we have a lot of options how to do it, now i look at it like something that i passively gathering while doing fun stuff.

I think you have to look at it in a different perspective.
In all honesty, is it really fun to grind for hours everyday?
Most people agree that the grindfest is boring, and very time consuming. They don't have time to do other in-game stuff. WoW has become a second job.


I just got invited to a progressive raiding guild in my alt so soon i will know how the hardcore ap grind feels like, not really looking forward to it.

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