No research catch up in 7.2, after AK 25?

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25/04/2017 19:48Posted by Daedralord
25/04/2017 19:18Posted by Frost
I will just say this again, If you work for your gear if you put time in the game you will get rewarded otherwise you aint getting shiit. End of story please close this.


Only difference of work that people who are a week ahead of me put is pushing one button, one week before me which takes ONE SECOND.

That is the work are you talking about?

If not, read the thread first before posting please. This isn't about AP loss because of leaving for a week. This is about all future AP loss, which will result in me working 200% as everyone else for next 3 months because I wasn't able to push the button for one week. More so; If someone pushed that button and went offline for 10 days, they are still earning more AP than me.

Can you understand that?


I understand, what I don't understand is why it matters. You aren't pushing content where the difference between 2-4 traits will make a difference. You missed stuff = you're behind. It's working as intended.
Joke?

36 traits are basically baseline. just how easy do you actually need everything to be? shared AP maybe?
"Half as much" is basically nothing considering the AK growth and AP costs are on an exponential progression scale. With 1-2 AK level behind you'll be at most 1 or 2 traits behind everyone else. Math is hard duh
Omg man, i didnt played most of 7.1 and i got all the traits, all of them, that 20/20 trait? Filled, with more than 1 month of no playing at all, even without the legion App, and when i stepped back my guild leader who play a lot just filled that 20/20 trait a pair of weeks before than me, you will not be behind everybody for not have the same AK of anybody, it's a small augment of AP per token, you can still gain more than anyone with more AK if you put effort, just don't whine like this please.

Edit: also, if someone have more AK and more traits, they will be slowed in comparison to you because augmented AP requirements, just chill.
I kind of "agree" with OP. Whole system is quite a mess really. In more ways than one and without all that much benefits.
25/04/2017 21:39Posted by Barelyheals
I understand, what I don't understand is why it matters. You aren't pushing content where the difference between 2-4 traits will make a difference. You missed stuff = you're behind. It's working as intended.


Again, only thing I missed was pushing a button. In return I will be held behind til next content after ToS. You are right, not doing any mythic raiding atm, but I am running 15+ M+ dungeons which is pushing for me. I did do all the challenge dungeons in MOP and Draenor, and now I want to be able to do the same in this xpack since that is what I enjoy.

But you know very well, now a days thru apps/fan-sites people are checking everything about you before inviting you to a group for 15+ M+ runs. Having same ilvl and xp, which tank would you want in your group, the one with lets say 46 artifact level or the one with 48.

Not having started that research puts me effectively in disadvantage for the rest of this content and there is absolutely nothing I can do about that. Someone who missed a weekly raid can still get lucky and get the gear next week. Someone who lost pvp rating can still fight back and rise back up the ladder. Only way for me to compete is, farming twice the AP; which is actually more complicated than it sounds. Let me explain;

We have 4 main sources of AP;

1) Dungeon AP drops: This can be grinded to twice amount with twice the work, No problem.
2) Normal world quests: Again, this can be grinded to twice amount with twice the work, No problem.
3) Rare quests with high AP rewards (including invasions): The problem starts to appear here. A standard player is probably doing all of these quests. So in order to compensate I can't simply do twice the amount. So I have to negate them by running dungeons. So, when someone spends 5 mins doing that quest, I need to do this quest + run a fast HC dungeon = 15 - 20 mins. Considering we get daily 4 - 5 of these, that time multiplies quite fast.
4) Order Hall Missions: Again, standard player is probably doing all of these as appear. And again, in order to compensate I can't simply do twice the amount. For 10 sec it takes for a player to send mission, I need to do 1 M dungeon if we are talking about normal AP missions or 4 M dungeons for the new once a week special AP missions. So in comparison 5 sec of mission vs 30min - 2hour.

So in order to stay at same level, which I want to do, for the foreseeable future, I will need to spend 3-4 times the time a standard player spends grinding AP . All because I didn't push a button... Otherwise I won't be able to do content that I'm paying and more important spending time / working to play.
25/04/2017 23:11Posted by Daedralord
25/04/2017 21:39Posted by Barelyheals
I understand, what I don't understand is why it matters. You aren't pushing content where the difference between 2-4 traits will make a difference. You missed stuff = you're behind. It's working as intended.


Again, only thing I missed was pushing a button. In return I will be held behind til next content after ToS. You are right, not doing any mythic raiding atm, but I am running 15+ M+ dungeons which is pushing for me. I did do all the challenge dungeons in MOP and Draenor, and now I want to be able to do the same in this xpack since that is what I enjoy.

But you know very well, now a days thru apps/fan-sites people are checking everything about you before inviting you to a group for 15+ M+ runs. Having same ilvl and xp, which tank would you want in your group, the one with lets say 46 artifact level or the one with 48.

Not having started that research puts me effectively in disadvantage for the rest of this content and there is absolutely nothing I can do about that. Someone who missed a weekly raid can still get lucky and get the gear next week. Someone who lost pvp rating can still fight back and rise back up the ladder. Only way for me to compete is, farming twice the AP; which is actually more complicated than it sounds. Let me explain;

We have 4 main sources of AP;

1) Dungeon AP drops: This can be grinded to twice amount with twice the work, No problem.
2) Normal world quests: Again, this can be grinded to twice amount with twice the work, No problem.
3) Rare quests with high AP rewards (including invasions): The problem starts to appear here. A standard player is probably doing all of these quests. So in order to compensate I can't simply do twice the amount. So I have to negate them by running dungeons. So, when someone spends 5 mins doing that quest, I need to do this quest + run a fast HC dungeon = 15 - 20 mins. Considering we get daily 4 - 5 of these, that time multiplies quite fast.
4) Order Hall Missions: Again, standard player is probably doing all of these as appear. And again, in order to compensate I can't simply do twice the amount. For 10 sec it takes for a player to send mission, I need to do 1 M dungeon if we are talking about normal AP missions or 4 M dungeons for the new once a week special AP missions. So in comparison 5 sec of mission vs 30min - 2hour.

So in order to stay at same level, which I want to do, for the foreseeable future, I will need to spend 3-4 times the time a standard player spends grinding AP . All because I didn't push a button... Otherwise I won't be able to do content that I'm paying and more important spending time / working to play.


Ok, this sounds more like a real problem, high content requires specific things, and you are worried about not being at your best, but well, this game has been casualized a lot, people who don't do that type of content are not that worried as people like you, excuse me if i missunderstanded you at my last post, deleting.

Have luck with that.
All the OP is asking for is a catchup mechanic like blizzard already introduced for older content in the patch.

However blizzard wont give you a catchup mechanic until the next major patch as the whole point of AK is to force you to keep your sub up. If you drop it you fall behind forever until the next major patch.

Blizzard knows this is a problem (which is why they fix it every major patch) but until then they see it as motivation to keep subs up
24/04/2017 22:32Posted by Daedralord
24/04/2017 21:54Posted by Hyunleí
You're missing very little.

You get your 4 new traits and the pick of your best dps traits to 4/4, then the rest is fluff and that endless trait which isn't really a factor until insane AK levels.

Soon enough, people will only be ahead of you by maybe a trait or two (due to scaling AP costs) on fluff traits that don't really matter.


I understand that m8, but being continuously behind on actual power aside, there is another side to this. You are constantly reminded that your efforts count for LESS.

For example, your friend in chat says "Sweeeeet, I got a 5Mil AP from weekly chest for completing M12", on the other hand you got 4.75 for doing M15. Or someone doing a normal raid run gets the same or higher AP than you when you complete a HC raid.

You can imagine how annoying this can become over time when you have no remedy but to sit and wait for months. I don't think catch-up should be free, but it should be attainable somehow. For OR or gold so that people that actually need it can get it.


Dont be away then? You will be at AK 50 like everyone else sooner or later.
The effect is not as dramatic as 40 or 50% sounds because of the scaling. When the first guy hits AK50, you will be the same week or two behind, in ak, not in total ap. You make it sound like you would have 50% of the traits of what someone else has at that point or something huge, but it doesn't really show at all in the meters at that point.
The catch up will probably go in at 7.2.5 or 7.3, that'll be my guess.
26/04/2017 10:43Posted by Riivis
The effect is not as dramatic as 40 or 50% sounds because of the scaling. When the first guy hits AK50, you will be the same week or two behind, in ak, not in total ap. You make it sound like you would have 50% of the traits of what someone else has at that point or something huge, but it doesn't really show at all in the meters at that point.


The problem is AK50 is more than 3 months ahead atm. During this time, if I do the same amount of questing/dungeon etc as an average player who started research first day, I will be 2 AK level; 2-3 artifact levels behind (research increases AP gain around 33%, while artifact level AP requirements increase around 28% each level).

Its true, performance wise this is very small. Around 4-5% damage increase (with talent + passive) and around 2-3% survivability increase. The problem is, when you apply a group for anything above 15+ M+, leader definitely checks you out. Given same XP - same ilvl, a leader would always choose the higher artifact level player. Am I wrong?

In time, this will also cause gear disparity since invited to less groups and completed less content. And still we are talking about 3 months + period, which is the whole current content since next big patch.

Now what I did was, missing the first week (7 days) so I couldn't push the research button at first day. On the other hand, if someone did start the research and went offline for 10 days, still that person is gaining full AP. He may need to grind extra AP for a week but it ends there. That is my issue, my problem which was caused by not pushing a button, lasts til next big patch.
1st of all sorry to hear that your grandpa was sick

2nd.. suck to be you, special snoflake.. srlsy? you don't have bigger problems? 1 week off and you make such a fuss? You are worried about not getting to m+ groups? you are a fking tank! everybody will take a tank even if he has 1 trait less then all other guys in the party. There are not enough tanks for lower m+ so i guess there are even less tanks in higher m+. So stop this QQ cuz you are looking idiotic right now.
To be fair this system works as intended, ie as means of "punishment" for not playing, or rather paying. In OP case it basically backfired as to my understanding he was subscribed whole time. He just didn't click research order and he is now punished for that. It might not seem much for some or much but either way it will "always" stay as a thorn for the OP, at least until AK50 which is quite a far ahead.
Whole Artifact Research system could as well work just server wide thing instead of being character specific or even if you could just "buy" all the AR you can afford up to the highest possible (days passed since 7.2 divided by 5). Its costs just a "click" and bit of OHResources which are overflowing everywhere so; meaningless. But that's not the intentions game developers had in mind when they designed it.
As for the people saying stuff that OP is making too much fuss about nothing. OFC its nothing bad, because it does not affect you. If it was your "thorn" i can safely bet it would indeed be unpleasant thing- FOR YOU.
It reminds me a case of one DH legendary ring that was mandatory to do highest DPS. There were many threads where people WITHOUT the ring complained that MAYBE something could be done to lessen (not nerf the class/spec in any case, leave just buff DH and nerf the ring, so at the end people with the ring would still do exact same dps as they did then, just these without would deal more) importance of RNG loot on class performance, and guess what? Almost exclusively people WITH the ring defended "status quo" simply because they were already on winning side.
1.2/10 for making me semi read the thread and thus occupying me for a brief moment.

Regards,
Imm
if it makes you any happy know this: you are behind just 5 days, evey alt that did not start researches asap but dinged recently is behind t least 25days, now thats what i'd call "being behind"
Ways to catch up,

If you are below ak25 then you can buy catch up scrolls for 500 resources per scroll. These will only take you to 25 though. If you need resources then the blood vendor sells 200 resources per 1 blood.

If you have a char whos ak knowledge is 30, they can buy a account bound catch up for 1000 resources that will take an alt to 25, i think this also works when 35 to 30 and 40 to 35 etc.

When you are ak 25 do not research anymore. Do the broken shore intro first. Once you have done the small chain to look here, defend there then you will be given a mission to take a book back to your researcher in your order hall.

This mission will auto put you to ak26 without research, this is important because at ak25 its something like 20% extra from tokens, at 26 it is 100% extra from tokens.

Once you are 26 then carry on research as you did before.
10/05/2017 01:26Posted by Shingara
Once you are 26

...you are still a month behind anyone else.
10/05/2017 15:30Posted by Zbir
10/05/2017 01:26Posted by Shingara
Once you are 26

...you are still a month behind anyone else.


I like many others stopped playing about 5 months ago and came back for broken shore, so im behind a month in ak but im upto date with story, so who cares.
There is a catch up mechanic. At AK 26 you get 3 days as opposed to 5 for AK completion

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