DK Becoming forced evil

Story
In Legion it seemed like you had the choice, you're either an evil sod doing evil things just to satisfy what your wanted or you're a good man doing bad things for the good of everyone, you stand in the shadow so you can let others stand in the light.

The new follower quest is just messed up, yes I can understand killing the vrykul and all that but the Dragon mother, the empty look in her eyes and just outright killing a neutral/ friendly race just so you can ride her I feel is horrible.

If they gave the option to fight with her and she died but you revived her to protect her children then again you're corrupting life but you're doing it for a good cause.

I get that DKs can be dark as hell, but there should be the option to play two sides of the coin, especially as you are the saviour or meant to be in your worlds universe.

So what do you guys think?
The starting zone of the DK tells us that there are two kinds of death knights, i.e. the ones following Bloodbane and the ones who follow Mograine.

The Mograine dks are more or less the ''good'' death knights. The ones that care for each other like a brotherhood does. Also, they are the ones with a spark of nobility left in them. (e.g. Thassarian's worry for his sister in the Borean Tundra questline, his worry for Koltira when he hears of his fate in Andorhal)

It is THAT type of dk that would never condone treachery. And to turn upon a neutral/friendly race is treacherous.

Due to work I was not able to do much playing in the previous months, but if I get to that quest point I will want a choice, too. There is anyway too much overkill in WoW. (questlines where you have to kill 50+ bears to get 15 ears, for example. Gee, how many earless bears run around in Azeroth? Or, are hunters too blind, not to see the bear has no ears and isn't the right target? So why kill 50+ bears to get 15 ears????) .... so I think it just boils down to this.
27/05/2017 00:37Posted by Maturedbeef
In Legion it seemed like you had the choice, you're either an evil sod doing evil things just to satisfy what your wanted or you're a good man doing bad things for the good of everyone, you stand in the shadow so you can let others stand in the light.

The new follower quest is just messed up, yes I can understand killing the vrykul and all that but the Dragon mother, the empty look in her eyes and just outright killing a neutral/ friendly race just so you can ride her I feel is horrible.

If they gave the option to fight with her and she died but you revived her to protect her children then again you're corrupting life but you're doing it for a good cause.

I get that DKs can be dark as hell, but there should be the option to play two sides of the coin, especially as you are the saviour or meant to be in your worlds universe.

So what do you guys think?


You think that was bad? Wait 'till you see the final quest. Raising that broodmother was nothing compared to what we are about to do.

Yeah, I think Blizz is doing a bit of an overkill here. Sure, it's badass, but come on, if after getting the class mount we get no one who wants to brutally obliterate us for our deeds, then we'll have a plot armor bigger than that of Sylvanas/Forsaken, which is horrible.
27/05/2017 04:55Posted by Tzesunlao
The Mograine dks are more or less the ''good'' death knights. The ones that care for each other like a brotherhood does.

There is no such thing as "good Death Knight's", they don't feel emotions. They have no empathy, they only feel hatred and Mograines Ebon Blade choose to direct their hatred against other evil factions or entities.
Just because they were once human and frankly, it was mostly because they were betrayed (selfish motivations).

To tell yourself that you can be a hero Death Knight, is deluding yourself. I suggest you read their lore in that case.

Those who followed Bloodbane loved the power and the unholy super soldiers of the Scourge that they were and at the time, it didn't look like (in character) that the Paladins and the living would survive the Scourge onslaught.

After the fall of Arthas, the Ebon Blade has unwittingly began to feel more and more misplaced where they go. They know that there is only one place they feel truly at home and it's Icecrown. But theoreticly, the Undercity could be their second home, but game mechanics forbids any logic in this story.
If it was any realistic thought process involved, of course the Ebon Blade would've been drawn to Undercity, because there is no difference between them.
THey are both undead, a forsaken undeath are exactly the same as when you play as a "human" DK, which is ridiculous why they don't recognize this ingame.

Oh well, either way, they have been drawn close and closer to the Lich King lately, even going so far as taking direct assignments and allowing themselves to be empowered by the more and more corrupted Bolvar. Someone else is influencing the once burned to death Paladin, and who could that be? ;)

The Scourge is back sooner than later. The Lich King built his citadel around Saronite because the whispers could not affect him through the Helmet of Domination and even the lesser Scourge aren't affected by the whispers, because they lack emotions the living don't.
They cannopt drive them insane when they cannot feel fear, doubt or despair.

But that does not mean that the Old God's don't approve of the Scourge actions, I'm sure they do. So an alliance can be struck, but if Ner'zhul is still in there, but he and Arthas, who hated the Burning Legion and even the thought of having a master, would not allow themselves to be governed over by anyone back than and if Ner'zhul is the corruptive influencing Bolvar, I don't think that's changed.
27/05/2017 08:09Posted by Sylaz
There is no such thing as "good Death Knight's",


That is why I said "good" ..... as opposed to good. Spot the difference? :p

27/05/2017 08:09Posted by Sylaz
they don't feel emotions. They have no empathy, they only feel hatred and Mograines Ebon Blade choose to direct their hatred against other evil factions or entities.


a) hatred is an emotion, albeit a negative one.
b) the questline of Thassarian in Borean Tundra and Andorhal/starting zone, denote that death knights still have emotions other than hatred. Therefore, DKs, depending on who they are, can even have what we term positive emotions.

To say nay, is to stereotype that class. Like saying ALL paladins are holy and ALL shamans are good. Lore tells us this is not the case (Arthas/Ner'zhul). Thus, not ALL DKs are filled with hatred, i.e. it stands to reason that some can be ''good''

27/05/2017 08:09Posted by Sylaz
Those who followed Bloodbane


Exactly .... but not all did. That's the point!

27/05/2017 08:09Posted by Sylaz
of course the Ebon Blade would've been drawn to Undercity, because there is no difference between them.


Of course? That is taking a very simplistic view of the situation.

Death Knights come close to the reverse of paladins, i.e. unholy knights. To say that there is no difference between the Forsaken and the DKs is to say, all Forsaken were raised knights (i.e. human paladins) and this is poppy-!@#$.

Fact is, DKs are split in two groups a) the Bloodbane-type and b) the Mograine-type of DKs. The first has never severed their link to the LK, the second has broken free and it is down to the individual (higher percentage-wise) what he makes of his existence.
I had memories about DK, even if motivated by redemption were still cursed by something Arthas implemented in them: they had to inflict suffering otherwise they 're subject to a painful sensation then go full berserk after a certain moment. Is it still true?
27/05/2017 12:50Posted by Khâmul
I had memories about DK, even if motivated by redemption were still cursed by something Arthas implemented in them: they had to inflict suffering otherwise they 're subject to a painful sensation then go full berserk after a certain moment. Is it still true?


As far as I know, yes.
27/05/2017 08:09Posted by Sylaz
27/05/2017 04:55Posted by Tzesunlao
The Mograine dks are more or less the ''good'' death knights. The ones that care for each other like a brotherhood does.

There is no such thing as "good Death Knight's", they don't feel emotions. They have no empathy, they only feel hatred and Mograines Ebon Blade choose to direct their hatred against other evil factions or entities.
Just because they were once human and frankly, it was mostly because they were betrayed (selfish motivations).

To tell yourself that you can be a hero Death Knight, is deluding yourself. I suggest you read their lore in that case.

Those who followed Bloodbane loved the power and the unholy super soldiers of the Scourge that they were and at the time, it didn't look like (in character) that the Paladins and the living would survive the Scourge onslaught.

After the fall of Arthas, the Ebon Blade has unwittingly began to feel more and more misplaced where they go. They know that there is only one place they feel truly at home and it's Icecrown. But theoreticly, the Undercity could be their second home, but game mechanics forbids any logic in this story.
If it was any realistic thought process involved, of course the Ebon Blade would've been drawn to Undercity, because there is no difference between them.
THey are both undead, a forsaken undeath are exactly the same as when you play as a "human" DK, which is ridiculous why they don't recognize this ingame.

Oh well, either way, they have been drawn close and closer to the Lich King lately, even going so far as taking direct assignments and allowing themselves to be empowered by the more and more corrupted Bolvar. Someone else is influencing the once burned to death Paladin, and who could that be? ;)

The Scourge is back sooner than later. The Lich King built his citadel around Saronite because the whispers could not affect him through the Helmet of Domination and even the lesser Scourge aren't affected by the whispers, because they lack emotions the living don't.
They cannopt drive them insane when they cannot feel fear, doubt or despair.

But that does not mean that the Old God's don't approve of the Scourge actions, I'm sure they do. So an alliance can be struck, but if Ner'zhul is still in there, but he and Arthas, who hated the Burning Legion and even the thought of having a master, would not allow themselves to be governed over by anyone back than and if Ner'zhul is the corruptive influencing Bolvar, I don't think that's changed.

Only after reading the whole this whole post, i realised its Sylaz lol, darn it, when did ya change to an Alliance dog? Traitor! :P
27/05/2017 06:40Posted by Uruk
then we'll have a plot armor bigger than that of Sylvanas/Forsaken, which is horrible.


That surprises you after "Draenor is free" -Grom?
Why is it always the ones who insist that my statement is incorrect when all their answers quoting and answering every sentence, always give them up as the self-learned, semi educated shrinks that always reveals themselves by their answer, that they have more or less zero competence on anti-social personality disorder known as sociopathy.

By the way you answered your posts, the more I realized how narrowminded your view of pscyhopath's must be.
Since they say atleast 3% of the men from my country suffers from it. But still most aren't maniac murderers.
There are so many documented files on sociopaths who actually participates in acts that would be considered as "good" by the public.
But he still lacks complete sense of empathy, and wouldn't care less if the man who just saved his life would end up dead five minutes later.

a) hatred is an emotion, albeit a negative one.
b) the questline of Thassarian in Borean Tundra and Andorhal/starting zone, denote that death knights still have emotions other than hatred. Therefore, DKs, depending on who they are, can even have what we term positive emotions.

You are talking like they could be any of the mortal races. But they are not. They are all DK's, created by either The Lich King himself or Kel'Thuzad, both held the ability to create them.
And they were created to be the warlords and killing machine's of the Scourge.
Why they, just like all the other Scourge and Forsaken, can only feel hatred and malice?
Maybe because Blizz wanted it that way
And just because Thassarian and Koltira mentally understood that they owned loyalty to their DK brethrend, Bloodbane and the others continued their mission.

And are you seriously comparing any living race again with the Scourge, Ebon Blade(isn't afflicted by the same rotting decay as the Forsaken slowly is.
All the Death Knight's created under the power of the Lich King, somehow didn't lose the tremendous necromancy that made them so powerful.
There is no official reason for that.

But still, you are comparing living mortal beings, with undead beings, who's soul's are forever imperfectly attached to their bodies, so their bodies feel no pain and strangely, hatred is the only feeling that isn't affected when you are ressurected.
And since the Light burns any undead who is exposed to it, the stronger the presence the more it burns. When one of the Paladin legends prayed wholehearted and with nothing but love and kindness, the Paladin became a conduit of pure Light, which not only dragged all his shadowy tendrils back but also burned the Death Knight to ash.
27/05/2017 09:32Posted by Tzesunlao
Of course? That is taking a very simplistic view of the situation.

Death Knights come close to the reverse of paladins, i.e. unholy knights. To say that there is no difference between the Forsaken and the DKs is to say, all Forsaken were raised knights (i.e. human paladins) and this is poppy-!@#$.

Fact is, DKs are split in two groups a) the Bloodbane-type and b) the Mograine-type of DKs. The first has never severed their link to the LK, the second has broken free and it is down to the individual (higher percentage-wise) what he makes of his existence.

This last part was just pure jibberisch.
There isn't two types, Mograine and Bloodbane, that it completely false.

The only reason that the Scourge army that almost destroyed every last standing chapel and fortress standing parted ways has nothing to do wether you are a sociopath or not, it was just that Mograine and most of the DK's felt profoundly betrayed by their master and what did they feel then? Hatred.

The difference is Orbaz Bloodbane felt he would rather serve his master for more power than defy him. And it was only Orbaz who returned to Icecrown.
There they created a new army of DK's.
28/05/2017 03:57Posted by Sylaz
But still, you are comparing living mortal beings, with undead beings, who's soul's are forever imperfectly attached to their bodies, so their bodies feel no pain and strangely, hatred is the only feeling that isn't affected when you are ressurected.

Then explain Sir Zeliek.
28/05/2017 12:03Posted by Aldith
28/05/2017 03:57Posted by Sylaz
But still, you are comparing living mortal beings, with undead beings, who's soul's are forever imperfectly attached to their bodies, so their bodies feel no pain and strangely, hatred is the only feeling that isn't affected when you are ressurected.

Then explain Sir Zeliek.


Sir Zeliek is an enigma. His faith was so strong, he was able to retain his concious in undeath, but his body was controlled by The Lich King.
One example doesn't mean everybody else has that possibility available.
28/05/2017 15:41Posted by Bankadín
One example doesn't mean everybody else has that possibility available.

If there is one then it is possible that there are others unless Sir Zeliek is somehow unique which I highly doubt because there is no reason why he would be unique; exceedingly rare but not unique, I think. Also all Death Knights seem to retain their consciousness, just look at any number from the Ebon Blade, but they were compelled to obey by the Lich King's awesome power and through rigorous training they were made to shed their former lives.
DK's by nature have no emotions... they are efficient and pragmatic in their views... so forcing emotion to Death Knights is destroying what a Death Knight is... they don't care about each other, they don't care about anybody... they care only about their mission and purpose.

To be honest, these DK's that we have, they are Lich King's DK's... they don't have free will, unlike original Gul'dans DK's. So in theory our DK's should only follow and listen to what Lich King tells them. Sadly all original DK's are destroyed, those that had free will.

As usual, blizzard butchered the lore in favor of game mechanics.
28/05/2017 15:41Posted by Bankadín
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Then explain Sir Zeliek.


Sir Zeliek is an enigma. His faith was so strong, he was able to retain his concious in undeath, but his body was controlled by The Lich King.
One example doesn't mean everybody else has that possibility available.


He isn't be the only one. Sylvanas too recived the same treatment from Arthas. He left her mind free, but forced her to do evrything he wanted with a spell, so she could see the destruction of her land, and take part in it, without being able to do anithing about it. She turned out being a really usefull toy, so Arthas kept her and started to create other banshees.

Lilian too was in the same condition when we faced her in Scholomance.
...

Sir Zeliek is an enigma. His faith was so strong, he was able to retain his concious in undeath, but his body was controlled by The Lich King.
One example doesn't mean everybody else has that possibility available.


He isn't be the only one. Sylvanas too recived the same treatment from Arthas. He left her mind free, but forced her to do evrything he wanted with a spell, so she could see the destruction of her land, and take part in it, without being able to do anithing about it. She turned out being a really usefull toy, so Arthas kept her and started to create other banshees.

Lilian too was in the same condition when we faced her in Scholomance.


It isn't the same. Arthas tried to subyugate Sir Zeliek, but his mind was always free, and he could embrace the Light, even when its use caused to suffer pain.
In the other hand, Arthas wanted Syvanas to be conscious, and see her suffer when Quel'thalas perished.

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