New Mount & Feat of Strength Issue

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08/06/2017 17:30Posted by Aerythlea
I can appreciate that no-one likes having something taken away from them. To try and clarify a little bit why we came to this decision; during the course of the PTR testing feedback from the community overwhelmingly pointed out that a missable achievement was both unfun for players that missed it, and unfun for players that felt compelled to slaughter innocent red dragons to achieve it.


There's nothing innocent about them.

But what about those of us who were content to slaughter them all, despite the grinding feel as you hunted down every last one of them. Unholy Determination is an entirely apt name for what you get through to achieve it.

Just give those who missed it the opportunity to go back, if you don't want to do it, don't do it. If you feel compelled to chase the FoS, you aren't that serious about sparing them.
Class mounts are ugly anyway. Blizzard can't make any good looking mounts these days.
08/06/2017 18:24Posted by Karlach
08/06/2017 17:30Posted by Aerythlea
I can appreciate that no-one likes having something taken away from them. To try and clarify a little bit why we came to this decision; during the course of the PTR testing feedback from the community overwhelmingly pointed out that a missable achievement was both unfun for players that missed it, and unfun for players that felt compelled to slaughter innocent red dragons to achieve it.


There's nothing innocent about them.

But what about those of us who were content to slaughter them all, despite the grinding feel as you hunted down every last one of them. Unholy Determination is an entirely apt name for what you get through to achieve it.

Just give those who missed it the opportunity to go back, if you don't want to do it, don't do it. If you feel compelled to chase the FoS, you aren't that serious about sparing them.
This would be the best option. They could also just let the people who obtained it keep it, but that might provide unfairness to new players who join after it becomes unobtainable. One could argue that it is still fair since all CM stuff is now unobtainable.
08/06/2017 18:35Posted by Travís
One could argue that it is still fair since all CM stuff is now unobtainable.


Except of course the CM rewards was widely advertised that they would be removed basically a year before they where, and you didn't only have one shot at obtaining it.
Absolutely disgusting.

Are you going to remove Black Harvest FoS too because you can no longer get it?
08/06/2017 17:30Posted by Aerythlea
I can appreciate that no-one likes having something taken away from them. To try and clarify a little bit why we came to this decision; during the course of the PTR testing feedback from the community overwhelmingly pointed out that a missable achievement was both unfun for players that missed it, and unfun for players that felt compelled to slaughter innocent red dragons to achieve it.

I do also want to mention that, while the Feat of Strength will be removed, the special voice line from Bolvar will still play if players choose to follow this particular route.
Whole people dislike your decisions about on it so let it be remain don't remove this.
08/06/2017 19:07Posted by Rasdon
Are you going to remove Black Harvest FoS too because you can no longer get it?


This isn't really an appropriate comparison.

The Breaker of the Black Harvest FoS was awarded to players who managed to earn green fire during Mists of Pandaria before the Warlords of Draenor pre-patch. Like all the other similar Feats of Strength, it is a reward for accomplishing such feats.

The Unholy Determination FoS which was awarded for doing an optional objective in the Death Knight Class Mount campaign was not supposed to go live (for the reasons already mentioned in this thread), it was a mistake that it did go live which is why it's now being removed.

The actual content will still remain in the game, the optional objective is still there and you will still get the additional dialogue if you choose to complete it.
08/06/2017 19:07Posted by Rasdon
Are you going to remove Black Harvest FoS too because you can no longer get it?


snip


I think its perfect.

Black Harvest scenario was optional objective back then too.
Actual content is still there and you will still get green fire if you chose to complete it,just not FoS.

"never intended to go live" sounds like a lie.
08/06/2017 19:43Posted by Rasdon
"never intended to go live" sounds like a lie.


To you.
08/06/2017 20:09Posted by Karzi
08/06/2017 19:43Posted by Rasdon
"never intended to go live" sounds like a lie.


To you.


It sounds like a blatant lie, they've had up to the release of the class mounts to remove the achievement.
Aerythlea, any chance to forward feedback about the reaction to Unholy Determination's FOS removal? I don't even have it and I think taking it away is bullcrap.

Slaughtering the dragons is a valid thing from a lore standpoint and it perfectly suits the Death Knight lore you've built in Legion.

You say you didn't mean to have it live, why not just flow with it since it actually is and add an npc that'll port DKs into Ruby Sanctum to give an opportunity to those who missed it the first time? Everyone wins.

And with removing the FOS, everyone loses. Well, bar the dragon lovers, but Alextrasza is due to dying as the final original dragon aspect seeing we killed all others already.
This action with this FoS achievement is just how blizzard respond to players. Its just harmless achievement and words like " I don't get it, do something!" its from players who play just for numbers and not for story or stuff like that.

Only true Death Knights will chose to kill all dragons. And achievement is just proof how much you like your class and its story.

Blizzard, you are just empty like us! That's why this circle of hate will always continue
08/06/2017 19:25Posted by Aerythlea
08/06/2017 19:07Posted by Rasdon
Are you going to remove Black Harvest FoS too because you can no longer get it?


This isn't really an appropriate comparison.

The Breaker of the Black Harvest FoS was awarded to players who managed to earn green fire during Mists of Pandaria before the Warlords of Draenor pre-patch. Like all the other similar Feats of Strength, it is a reward for accomplishing such feats.

The Unholy Determination FoS which was awarded for doing an optional objective in the Death Knight Class Mount campaign was not supposed to go live (for the reasons already mentioned in this thread), it was a mistake that it did go live which is why it's now being removed.

The actual content will still remain in the game, the optional objective is still there and you will still get the additional dialogue if you choose to complete it.


So instead of building in an NPC and give DK's who cry about it that they didnt know can still get it, u decide to completely remove it even from the people who DID obtain it? Can u also please remove every other thing I did not get and others did? Not really fair that they have it and I dont. i.e Literally every achievement that is now listed under Legacy.(By this logic)

You can say all you want that this wasnt intended to go live, but it was up in many PTR-builds, even in release builds. So dont give me that bull!@#$ :)

Keeping in the voice line, will be obsolete too then, cause who cares if u kill them or dont if there is no reward to it in the end.
08/06/2017 19:25Posted by Aerythlea

The Unholy Determination FoS which was awarded for doing an optional objective in the Death Knight Class Mount campaign was not supposed to go live (for the reasons already mentioned in this thread), it was a mistake that it did go live which is why it's now being removed.


https://twitter.com/Muffinus/status/832823180339224576

This is really why I can't understand your explanation. When this was first discovered on PTR months ago, it created excited chatter, to the point where one of the game's designers weighed in above.

"As Senegos mentined, the whelps in the regrown Ruby Sanctum are the last red whelps ever. Will you slay them for 0 achievement points?"

"Ask your DK friends not to kill them imo"

"life is a series of hard choices, undeath is a series of impossible ones."

".@mikolas100 Wont have lore consequnces? Are you sure? Are you VERY sure?"

"Make your choice then, Deathlord."

This whole scenario was already laid out and known about, including the FoS, and made public knowledge by a developer. At no pointhas Jeremy or anyone else said "Oh, we're removing the Unholy Determination feat of strength" in the months since both pre 7.2 and post 7.2 before the quests were available.

This didn't accidentally make it to live, this was something Blizzard was aware people were looking forward to, by their own engagement in the discussions.

This 180 afterwards smells of a knee jerk because people missed out and are complaining. Give these people a chance to go back and leave it in, it's a damn cool thing, and they're few and far between these days.
A little comparison between WoW and IRL.

Blizz devs are the teacher in school. PTR duration is the time students spend in class. There are two type of students: students that pay attention in class and students that spend their time looking trough the window.

At the end of the year students that payed attention during the class received better grades than the students that not paying attention.

Now here comes the weird part: After seeing their bad grades, the lazy students began to complain and ask for better grades - instead of telling them to pay more attention next time, the all mighty teacher lowered the grades of the students that were paying attention.

Do you think this example will happen in real life? I dont think so.
08/06/2017 17:30Posted by Aerythlea
I can appreciate that no-one likes having something taken away from them. To try and clarify a little bit why we came to this decision; during the course of the PTR testing feedback from the community overwhelmingly pointed out that a missable achievement was both unfun for players that missed it, and unfun for players that felt compelled to slaughter innocent red dragons to achieve it.

I do also want to mention that, while the Feat of Strength will be removed, the special voice line from Bolvar will still play if players choose to follow this particular route.

Then add some achieve for killing none aswell?
And you're contradicting yourself, you said that this was because it wen against your philosophy, now it's because players complained? Which one is it?
08/06/2017 18:20Posted by Karzi
08/06/2017 17:57Posted by Adlian
to please the people who spend no time researching whats new


So, 95% of the playerbase. How dare the Company side with the huge majority?
How dare the company reward those actually trying to reward people for exploring, right?
08/06/2017 19:25Posted by Aerythlea
08/06/2017 19:07Posted by Rasdon
Are you going to remove Black Harvest FoS too because you can no longer get it?


This isn't really an appropriate comparison.

The Breaker of the Black Harvest FoS was awarded to players who managed to earn green fire during Mists of Pandaria before the Warlords of Draenor pre-patch. Like all the other similar Feats of Strength, it is a reward for accomplishing such feats.

The Unholy Determination FoS which was awarded for doing an optional objective in the Death Knight Class Mount campaign was not supposed to go live (for the reasons already mentioned in this thread), it was a mistake that it did go live which is why it's now being removed.

The actual content will still remain in the game, the optional objective is still there and you will still get the additional dialogue if you choose to complete it.

Black harvest is optional too, it doesn't make you stronger, and this is just a FoS, golly, people complaining about a FoS achievement, how pathetic of them to do so, and patheric of blizz to listen to that, it doesnt even award achievement points, it's only to show off "hey look i listened and did something special", too bad for those who missed it, maybe they should've listened to the dialogue, it's not -that- hidden

besides if you care so much about not killing innocents then feel free to remove the entire DK campaign, because it's filled to the brim with that!
08/06/2017 17:30Posted by Aerythlea
unfun for players that felt compelled to slaughter innocent red dragons to achieve it.


"innocent" sure we`ll go with that.
Also the players are Death Knights former agents of the Lich King raised to butcher the living(lets forget the part about their betreyal). Even in their new class hall quest they go around defiling graves of former champions and 1 sociopathic priest and assaulting their allies of the Silver Hand order to defile Tirion's grave. Did they felt it unfun slaughtering those "innocent" citizens under scarlet tyranny in their starting zones. Or killing that argent dawn member who knew your character their entire life. If not then they have no argument for killing red dragons (even though they deserve it). If they did find it unfun then im sorry but the Death Knight class was not a class made for you.

Sorry for being an A*s but i couldnt just stay quiet at this.
And this is why your game is crumbling, not because this specifically, but because you keep bending over towards people who complain that something's "unfair", remove this, I didn't get it, nerf that, it's too hard!

Just for once keep something in...

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