AK change shenanigans?

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23/05/2017 09:12Posted by Dreadspec
23/05/2017 07:27Posted by Schlars
Lowering the AK is the indirect way of telling ppl "stop grinding ap' without removing AP. Its not ideal but its till better than the 54 trait grind before NH.


Pretty much this, that way people who main only 1 spec can continue grinding for their little to no effect 200/stat of concordance per trait. Or they can get the first concordance rank for their offspecs and be done.


Or you know, they could have kept the previous max AK, and removed the stupid "parangon" trait. That would actually have got people to "stop grinding AP", now they'll just have to grind harder, it makes no sense.
Let's not get angry at each others for 100 pages shall we ?

In the end, on the one hand it won't affect people dedicating to farming that much because everyone get 10 lower AK max now, if there is a problem, it will come to raid tuning with ToS which is something else entirely. It will just basically mean we enter the new raid with X less levels of Concordance.

On the other hand we can also admit it will make getting AP on alts and offspec a bit longer (albeit not by much, again), and that it was a pretty clunky decision by blizzard, poorly explained, though not the end of the world.
23/05/2017 09:26Posted by Theodolphe


Or you know, they could have kept the previous max AK, and removed the stupid "parangon" trait. That would actually have got people to "stop grinding AP", now they'll just have to grind harder, it makes no sense.


They don't have to grind harder!

I'm struggling to understand your thought process here (if you have one). An impossible goal just got "impossibler". "Oh man, Blizz are making me grind harder!"
.../facedesk
23/05/2017 09:36Posted by Barelyheals
I'm struggling to understand your thought process here (if you have one).

First you can keep your insults and remain cordial, that would be more constructive.

I fail to see what you don't understand. The end goal has not changed (the necessary AP to max out your weapon is still the same), however, the maximum amount of AP you can expect to get in one WQ/dungeon/raid has just dropped dramatically how does that not imply more grinding? It's simple Mathematics....
23/05/2017 09:50Posted by Theodolphe
23/05/2017 09:36Posted by Barelyheals
I'm struggling to understand your thought process here (if you have one).

First you can keep your insults and remain cordial, that would be more constructive.

I fail to see what you don't understand. The end goal has not changed (the necessary AP to max out your weapon is still the same), however, the maximum amount of AP you can expect to get in one WQ/dungeon/raid has just dropped dramatically how does that not imply more grinding? It's simple Mathematics....


It was impossible to max out with AK 50. It will be impossible to max out with AK40.

Harping on with statistics like "oh now it will take me 37 years instead of only 4" are missing the point, no?
Well, I guess it's going to be a little harder for fresh alts, but I ain't gonna lose my sleep over this.
Hey all!

Thanks for the discussion so far! I'd like to provide a little more additional insight here on this change as well as a change to highest Artifact Knowledge Compendium.

The Artifact Knowledge cap was raised from 40 to 50 late in Patch 7.2's development as part of a desire to increase overall AP gains. However, after 7.2 launched, we realised it would be better to increase base Artifact Power gains instead of relying on Artifact Knowledge (which takes time for players to research and can make gains earned in the interim not feel as meaningful).

Since 7.2 we have deployed several hotfixes that have increase AP gains in certain areas, one such example is the Elite Strike missions available while the Command Center is active. Now that these changes are live, the acquisition of AP is faster overall, so we felt that 40 is now an appropriate cap for AK and isn't as daunting a prospect to reach.

We also wanted players to have a solid stopping point for AK research, at which point they will have more freedom to focus on their alts.

To that end, the item Artifact Research Compendium: Volumes I-VII is being changed to grant Artifact Knowledge level 40 instead of level 35. As before, it will be purchasable in the Order Hall by characters who have reached AK 40. This means that players will be able to immediately catch-up to the AK cap on alts once they have access to this book, which should make the process of getting to Concordance on alts less daunting too.

As always, we welcome your feedback on these changes.
23/05/2017 06:00Posted by Varileztra
23/05/2017 05:59Posted by Dextrozz
There is no pleasing everyone i guess.


who exactly is going to be pleased, by having their AP gain nerfed?


Shareholders, as time-spend in game is what they measure and report to shareholders.
Wether or not the time spend is enjoyable or not, is none of their concern.
We are cash cows being herded (slowly)
Rip alts and offspecs. Well done blizzard more great ideas.

No one is going to focus an alt or off spec until they have the final trait 1/50 on their main. This change just means you will then have to spend more time on alts and off spec as your AK will now not be as high....this is another example of blizzard changing something for some reason they wont share with us then feeding us a bull!@#$ marketing reason trying to make it out as being "for the players". IE a lie.
23/05/2017 10:01Posted by Aerythlea
To that end, the item Artifact Research Compendium: Volumes I-VII is being changed to grant Artifact Knowledge level 40 instead of level 35. As before, it will be purchasable in the Order Hall by characters who have reached AK 40.

Finally. Thanks.
23/05/2017 07:09Posted by Sternheim
23/05/2017 07:04Posted by Iblyss
Another pointless change that nobody asked for, and while some may voice their satisfaction with it, it will still piss off 99% of the playerbase.


In the end that's the core of the problem. Why did they feel this change was necessary ?

Quoting blizz "Knowledge 40 now seems more than sufficient for players to reach Concordance, and the prospect of months’ worth of additional Knowledge still left to research makes some players feel like their efforts in the interim aren’t meaningful."

I mean, what ? If anything, the prospect of more AK was the prospect of an easier time for Alts and offspec, and that's it. DId anyone really complain about feeling like "their efforts in the interim aren’t meaningful." ?


What they mean by that, and it is true coz many of the top guilds do it like that, is ignoring AP farming as it was not really worth it unless you reached a certain point of AK.

So in other words, they would ignore things that would give AP because at the current AK it would not be worth it. So now that they won't be able to progress past a certain AK, they will somewhat have to grind it at a less efficient pace.

I do not agree with that logic, however that is what they meant by it.
23/05/2017 10:01Posted by Aerythlea
Since 7.2 we have deployed several hotfixes that have increase AP gains in certain areas, one such example is the Elite Strike missions available while the Command Center is active. Now that these changes are live, the acquisition of AP is faster overall, so we felt that 40 is now an appropriate cap for AK and isn't as daunting a prospect to reach.


Have an example which isn't a laughably undertuned mission that gave less AP than some WQs yet took 4+ days?

23/05/2017 10:01Posted by Aerythlea
We also wanted players to have a solid stopping point for AK research, at which point they will have more freedom to focus on their alts.


This makes no sense. We're not going to focus on alts upon hitting a certain artifact knowledge - We're going to focus it once we hit a certain artifact trait. You know what helps with this? Knowledge.

23/05/2017 10:01Posted by Aerythlea
To that end, the item Artifact Research Compendium: Volumes I-VII is being changed to grant Artifact Knowledge level 40 instead of level 35. As before, it will be purchasable in the Order Hall by characters who have reached AK 40.


I like this, though.
23/05/2017 08:15Posted by Michaela
23/05/2017 08:08Posted by Schlars

What is competitive here? World first guilds wont be able to obtain it anyway because they 'have to' have so many alts.

You are - like me - at 8/10 Mythic NH, still progressing the last 2 Bosses. At this Point having 1 or lets say 4 Points in Concordance wont be the factor of killing the boss or not. its Player skill.

52 is done. If they still grind, im sorry for them.


So only your way of playing is right? We have to be accepting and accommodate every type of casual playstyle, but !@#$ the hardcore people right?

I would never grind like that, I just don't find it fun.

But those people do it, either they like it or they feel compelled to do it to get an edge, doesn't matter.

They shouldn't be forced to do an uphill climb that then gets changed into a completely vertical one and told they are sad degenerates.


There will always be ppl who Play 24/7. But 99,99% wont. Games are not designed around a minority.

The AP grind created social(!) pressure in guilds. "hey bob has only concordance rank1, whereas i already have concordance 36, such a slacker".

The AP grind enforced unhealthy way of Play. And they removed it, great.

Concordance wasnt even worth grinding with AK50.

I mean you say it yourself, you wouldnt grind so much.

Keep in mind how many top guilds are going casual or disbanded because of the Burnout. Dont you think These Players will be somewhat reliefed they finally dont have to grind 24/7 to reach max concordance?
23/05/2017 10:01Posted by Aerythlea
Since 7.2 we have deployed several hotfixes that have increase AP gains in certain areas, one such example is the Elite Strike missions available while the Command Center is active. Now that these changes are live, the acquisition of AP is faster overall, so we felt that 40 is now an appropriate cap for AK and isn't as daunting a prospect to reach.


This is bandaid "fix". Let's not pretend that buildings will not slow down in the upcoming weeks (beside the Mage tower).
The simple truth is that you (well not you specificity) put an restriction on a system that was demotivational to begin with due to precious retention numbers and tried to pass it with "but we do it for the costumers!".

Tell me, what do you think will happen after ToS HC falls down - we already know that relatively small % go into mythic, we also know that TF gear has demotivated gear progression. This fix is torpedoing one of the few progression systems we have that is not tied to loot boxes.
This makes no sense. We're not going to focus on alts upon hitting a certain artifact knowledge - We're going to focus it once we hit a certain artifact trait. You know what helps with this? Knowledge.

That trait is concordance rank 1. The point about freedom to alts is that people do not play alts until AK is maxed. So up to 50 AK just means more waiting. Not sure how much AP has been added to the base AP, but I rather that than simply more AK.
Artificial time gating is never fun blizzard... it just angers the entire community. This is still an RPG and putting up an artificial barrier in front of progression shows that you don't trust the longevity of your own game/content or that you feel you need to handhold the "poor addicts" cause otherwise they will burn themselves out.
As someone who managed to get the 35th trait before Mythic EN even unlocked, I understand what it means to 'live in a M+ dungeon.' And when they opened the 54 traits part, I had those well before NH was released. I personally like the paragon traits, only because it gives me an excuse to not play my required split-run alt (I really only like playing one character tbh but guild says to do it so I have to), and because I always feel like I'm improving my character at a steady rate. Decreasing the AK from 50 to 40 really rubs me the wrong way because I actually look forward to the day where I finish my Blood weapon, to the say that it says "No more Artifact Power may be put into this weapon." Sure, I can still achieve that, but it's going to take so much more effort than before. Like, just look at the difference between AK 40 and AK 50, 40 is 4mil% increase, and 50 is 50mil% increase. And just a reminder, it takes (I think) something like 4 quadrillion AP to max out the weapon, the last trait alone costing a few trillion AP. It really disappoints me to see that Blizzard continues to devalue character progression, continues to hinder peoples ability to achieve their goal of maxing out their weapon, continues to attempt to bring the social playerbase and the hardcore playerbase together. Sorry to burst your bubble, Blizz; but I can almost guarantee that a 10/10M player and a 10/10LFR player will hardly ever find something in common with each other. Hardcore players are hardcore to be the very best they can be, and you're stopping us from doing that.
23/05/2017 10:23Posted by Keleseth
Decreasing the AK from 50 to 40 really rubs me the wrong way because I actually look forward to the day where I finish my Blood weapon, to the say that it says "No more Artifact Power may be put into this weapon." Sure, I can still achieve that, but it's going to take so much more effort than before.

Wasn't it already impossible to finish a weapon, decreasing AK cap and upping base AP values doesn't change that.
23/05/2017 10:23Posted by Keleseth
Hardcore players are hardcore to be the very best they can be, and you're stopping us from doing that.


Lets face it, hardcore people finished the raid months ago. People that grind day and night to make up for a lack of skill aren't hardcore, they are tryhard. Theres a big difference.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a baddie that needs 20 more ilevels and 10 traits more than the best raiders to kill stuff too but an infinity of grinding doesn't make you hardcore.
23/05/2017 09:53Posted by Barelyheals

It was impossible to max out with AK 50. It will be impossible to max out with AK40.

Harping on with statistics like "oh now it will take me 37 years instead of only 4" are missing the point, no?


Okay, guess you are just not much of a thinker, eh?

Let's put it like this. Before this, you couldn't get max Concordance rank, sure.

But you could get 3-4-5 levels off max.

Now you probably have no chance to get even 10-15 points off. To get to rank 25 Concordance with AK40 will take 78500 Daily heroics.

To get to rank 25 with AK50 it would've taken 5250 Daily heroics.

If we had AK50 we could get to 35 points at the same speed it will now take us to get to 25.

Do you get it now?

It would take 15 times longer to get to the halfway point, let alone even think of the end.

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