The most fail class redesign?

General
SV and people already wrote down the reasons, my pesonal adition is retribution paladin! Reasons:

-Artifacts forces you to buff only yourself or no STR buff
-Mana gone/inrelevant (we used to be balanced till MoP hit us in PvP with our mana, do more heals is less mana for dps and vice versa)
-Rogue combo poins now
-Selfheal heavily nerfed and pruned
-Many of spells pruned
-Most of them are now talents
-Many hand supports gone
-You're balanced around people dying, on purpose sometimes in mythic guilds pushing progression if they are about to hit enrage and can miss 1 healer to buff the ret (passive).
Survival is so unappealing that I am not even daring to try it on my hunter

Shadow in PvE is the definition of a stupid design that has average single target damage and terrible AoE especially on short lived targets in places like dungeons.
I still wonder who was the "genius" that made it so that in order to spread the Dots one should be in voidform and have a particular RNG legendary ring
One of our players made detailed analysis of situation with classes and other material related to it.
..class (c) fantasy (f) and talents (t) system
└► http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17612033159?page=2#post-22 (TL;DR)
└► http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17610601495#post-12 (c+t)
└► http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17611551590#post-6 (c+artif.)
(also tinkers as >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht << here)
└► http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17611491478#post-11 (t)
└► http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17612883028?page=2#post-25 (f)
└► http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17611501090?page=2#post-35 (sup-t)
└► http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17611521193#post-9 (RPG)
( http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749788539 )
This person no longer plays for more than six months now (it’s somewhat for another main reason https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/12439455182?page=27#post-538 , but if we'll think clearer https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/16885328560?page=5#post-94 because of this reason too, if you know what I mean https://youtu.be/94YHgYOSbUA?t=82), but material is considered as still relevant, because it’s universal. I think that have all rights to refer into this messages because we helped with preparing material.

But since you were interested in opinion of the rest of eu, and we are officially treated as Europe, so here your answer. This isn't opinion of the entire ru community, but at least 2 guilds in full. There are many links, but you try to get the essence, which is that almost everything that's done is done incorrectly. I don’t think that we could agree with what you wrote, OP ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Current team is just out of touch completely http://i.imgur.com/aQnKWCC.png At least Holinka is leaving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRy5JJfw-JI so team could be able to recover a little. It remains to throw Celestalon https://twitter.com/celestalon/status/737196586338418688?lang=en from the project together with Ion and full Diablo team, don't think that we'll lose a lot. I believe that Киджи would also add here entire team of designers engaged in making models >:Ъ
From a PvP perspective i'd say disc priest with every class change starting with MoP. First by putting so many abilities into glyphs that made it less fun to play, then by the way it got "re-designed" with both WoD and Legion in terms of healing and healing cd's. The MoP talent system also made it less fun to play for the same reason as with the glyph design.
D. Warlock, 80% of fun and good designed talents were pruned, along with some baseline spells.
They talked about homoginity yet they replaced embers with shards, and replaced various healing methods into a single drain life which all specs have, not to mention that we have 3 art. traits that are merly useless.
Boring so to say
28/06/2017 23:06Posted by Aralise
I really, REALLY miss the old disc play style.


Exactly. Have 91 shadow priest and switched to disc. It feels so weird. Loved the Wotlk Disc so much, this mess made me really sad.
29/06/2017 14:49Posted by Hao
It all comes down to one thing: RNG.


This. I don't like having rng determining my gameplay, yet it's a far too common feature in dps rotations now. Well at least for the classes and spec's I play, MM hunter and Assa rogue. Sub is slightly better, unless you are going to count the rng combo points...
Outlaw is just a slot machine.

Other than that I'm just going to say BM hunter. Rotation is boring and unimaginative. Just hit instants and jump around like an idiot. It's even more terrible in pvp.
I use it out in the world, but that's it.
29/06/2017 17:56Posted by Destruct
-Artifacts forces you to buff only yourself or no STR buff


You can buff others and you will still get the Ashbringer buff (not like it matters, the paladin buffs are now almost completely useless doesn't matter who has it). I agree with the other points.

29/06/2017 17:56Posted by Destruct
-You're balanced around people dying, on purpose sometimes in mythic guilds pushing progression if they are about to hit enrage and can miss 1 healer to buff the ret (passive).


Especially with this. I don't understand the logic behind this. Yes its good for them in mythic progression because its more than likely that at least 1 person will die, but on heroic difficulty and normal after a time no one will die and its just dps loss for the paladin. Other thing is why should anyone be rewarded with a buff for someone else's fail. They should just remove it and buff the overall damage for paladins or give them a new active spell.
All these survival hunter haters, come on now, after playing it for a while i can personally say the spec is really fun to play, it quite simply feels unfinished, but the concept itself if amazing and fits really well with the idea of survival spec.
28/06/2017 20:04Posted by Khazash
Funny how people say surv hunter while its not something impressive but..
[quote]BM hunter = Buttons 1-2-3.

I don't know if that is true about BM. However I noticed people don't care how broken is their class as long as it is giving good numbers or op (i.e. BRM Monks)
28/06/2017 23:06Posted by Aralise
Survival hunters
They just feel unfinished, their rotation is awful, though i dont feel its beyond fixing.

Disc Priests
How will they ever balance a class that is supposed to keep up with other healers, while also doing damage? its always going to do either to much or too little of one or the other.

I really, REALLY miss the old disc play style.

I don't miss it at all. WOTLK and WOD Disco priest sucked. Binding your left click with PWS and clicking everyone was !@#$ design and I am happy it was gone.

Then again you are druid, I think you enjoy this sort of gameplay.
I main hunter and I think survival is very refreshing and new to play. Just like survival in the good old vanilla days. Dont know why it gets all the hate. Its not like all other classes have amazing rotations. 3 buttons.
how come BM hunters are not listed?

i leveled a BM from 1-110. At the begening it was exciting to tame beats and have my pets do half my work. but from a raiding point of view, i just have to chose between 2-3 pets and need not even worry about what they are doing in raids. i just have to spam 1-2-3-4 buttons and pray to RNGesus for my procs to show up, follow mechanics and not stand in fire.
29/06/2017 20:07Posted by Moontale
28/06/2017 23:06Posted by Aralise
I really, REALLY miss the old disc play style.


Exactly. Have 91 shadow priest and switched to disc. It feels so weird. Loved the Wotlk Disc so much, this mess made me really sad.


I'm also one of those that don't miss the WotLK/WoD style. After progressing for 2 months on LK hc 25, I hoped shield spam will be killed, burned and the ashes buried. Unfortunately we got another round of it in WoD.
I love Legion disc, especially after 7.2.5, which balanced mana issues and made the ramp-up less cumbersome. I admit it's not a flavor for all tastes.

28/06/2017 23:06Posted by Aralise
Disc Priests
How will they ever balance a class that is supposed to keep up with other healers, while also doing damage? its always going to do either to much or too little of one or the other.

By making you put 150% of the effort. As seen in the numbers of people playing the spec, not a lot find the trade that advantageous. I do hope disc will become more popular in time, when people get used to the concept more.
Just plain seems like devs for years systematically have ruined ranged dps. I think the mage is way behind any melee dpswise judging from floating numbers and sadly both the lock and Spriest (but for that matter also disc priests )are unbalanced and ruined classes.

Imo this is what happens when devs only listen to those who shouts the loudest - AND have absolutely no idea how those classes are played because noone from the devteam is playing WoW anymore
Still havent found a class / spec that keeps me enternained for more than a couple of hours -.-
Seeing all the mentions about Survival hunter, I feel I need to defend at least one aspect.

I rolled my first hunter a long time ago because I really liked the idea of the "man of the wilds" fighting alongside his pet. A versatile fighter who can fight both at melee or long range. It was the reason WHY i rolled a hunter. I wanted my badass orc fighting along his wolf.

Whether or not the spec performed well (it didnt, lacerate was a joke) was secondary to the fact that it existed, and that some players loved the archetype. You can always tweak/buff things.

But to my dismay, and the disappointment of anybody who rolled the spec, they just ditched it. To replace it with a marksman variation, for a time.

So, even if I dont specially love the new abilities for survival, the fact that they are designed around wielding a spear (we used to be able to dual wield ffs, TWO axes are better than one!), I'm at least grateful that the archetype is back!
Disc priest. I have always loved my disc, but I can't even get it to 110 because of how it plays. Horrible.
All these survival hunter haters, come on now, after playing it for a while i can personally say the spec is really fun to play, it quite simply feels unfinished, but the concept itself if amazing and fits really well with the idea of survival spec.
main hunter and I think survival is very refreshing and new to play. Just like survival in the good old vanilla days. Dont know why it gets all the hate. Its not like all other classes have amazing rotations. 3 buttons.
It's not. F*! Do you you even try to read the stuff? Idea of the survivor from the beginning was never about melee-zone fighting face to face with warrior or rogue and blowing out everything near you, it always was about put trap and run away alive, about stats and cunning abilities, it was about not be controlled but control others, not be stopped or sticked to the ground, it was about master of range control and surviving. Have you ever seen old talents? http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#c Problem was that hunters couldn't throw traps into range back in Vanilla. So they changed sv's last talent (bleed) to Wyvern Sting (control) already even in classic.

*sarcasm* Give almost the same as 'master of seals'=paladin system taken from them to ench shamans and say that everything is fine with imagination! Y-e-a-h, revolutionary idea! http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/079/173/ed2.png Stings and aspects system isn't fit into hunter theme, let's prune it! https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17612883028?page=2#post-25 We're awesome developers! - Know what? May be I should quote one of you as an answer https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0Wrw3c2NjeE/hqdefault.jpg should I?

If you could read properly not even links I provided up there, but some others messages in this thread, you'd understand that they weren't talking abot idea is bad, but about it's not fit hunter theme (animals + traps + range weapons, thuse are their basis, Киджи chewed notion of 'class' for you as for a child and it still turned out to be useless). It's just don't fit in hunter class and even more: hunter class theme prevent this idea from developing further, they mutually limit each other the same way as combat rogues becoming pirates. Witch tried to offer Landsknecht as base for new class with pirat and grenader theme, but I think it's more look like medieval modern infantry, but all right! http://engineered-gaming.blogspot.com.by/2016/06/frostgrave-warband.html even it beter be as agile clever grenadier with two-hand weapon than classic hunter (e.g. with specific pets or ability from talents to tame it https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/81/1a/14/811a14c9d733e80af0108a3fb845aa26.jpg) or outlaw with pistol as offhand (they even plundered cities http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/ca59b6eff1c94d5ca30cd517ad7df56d/military-landsknechts-looting-a-city-woodcut-early-16th-century-raid-b5m5pf.jpg). They also could have one of directions something like bard class. This new specs, this ideas are breaking class identify and integrity, but you didn't read anything, did you? Until everyone will understand this including players and developers, nothing will change, system still won't work and no matter what you'll change in it..

F*! Now I understand why Киджи was laughing at us *facepalm* Now I understand even this frase that looked banal at first!
nice try, but >> imgur.com/D413fRj.gif | youtube.com/watch?v=1V_xRb0x9aw << enjoy yourself talking with a wall :P they're deaf-mute just like my priestess, there is no my work here, I'm out of words already, 666 posts are precisely enough, contract settled
I already quoted it here https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/12439455182?page=28#post-558 I was blind, but I received my sight. Now it's understandable also that resentment, that anger, that apathy in consequence and even this sardonic laughter (phrase) and even why Baba Yaga hided this one https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17610981805?page=2#post-37 so nobody ever read it, what put me into rage. Because it all doesn't matter, It's not about developers, as I first thought, it's about the players. You even aren't able to listen to each other, what is there to talk about developers..

God.. You know what? I'm Sorry! Excuse me that got into your discussion! You can continue it until the second coming of Arthas! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs8pteCkCGk Until you start read=listening to each other, understand each other, you won't get anywhere. While community won't come out more or less as united front with their wishes - all this is useless. Forgive those, who understood, that I can't support you more, forgive those, who didn't, that I couldn't explain better, but if Киджи as writer and master of data manipulation couldn't, then how could I? Never had so much patience unlike Witch who always was able to recreate from the ashes by humor ..or soulstone? like http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/581/917/bb1.jpg

Forget it.

I'm outta here.
Shaman after wotlk i just lost interest on the whole class.

Druid after balance was reworked with lunar/solar phase crap i lost interest in the spec.

Mistweaver i had a blast playing fistweaver but after it was removed class does not offer anything fun for me.

Hunter as whole for me is still as dull as it was since i first tried it in 2008

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