7.2.5 M+

Dungeons & Raids
I was really enjoying running M+'s up until 7.2.5 hit, personally I don't have time to join a raid team to clear HC or Mythic to get decent loot, so high M+ was a sweet spot that had been missing from wow. If only blizz had not applied the additional difficulty scaling and reduced the amount of loot dropped I'd still be running them every night. Where they wanted to make sure players were pushing themselves for higher difficulties to get those juicy upgrades has meant that those not raiding are left behind because for me I have to run a min +13 and hope I get a decent WF or TF on a item and now that keys can't be depleted people give up more easily oh and there's less loot, so when the fun stops so does the sub :'(

What happens now is that the boost groups have started looking for +15 keys to boost for their own weekly chest which is good if you have a key they want to run which is easy for them due to HC gear from ToS. Raiders should always have the bigger pool of gucci gear but the way M+ worked prior to this patch kept me on a par.
Mimimimimi.. Thread.

04/07/2017 21:54Posted by Alysbub
I don't have time to join a raid team to clear HC or Mythic to get decent loot, so high M+ was a sweet spot that had been missing from wow. If only blizz had not applied the additional difficulty scaling and reduced the amount of loot dropped I'd still be running them every night.


So first of all why the heck you cry about a game which got finaly hard and has at Mythic 10+ close old HC's standarts for Modern WoW player. If its to hard for you or you dont have the time to put effort into the game you dont deserve the Gear. Thats it and that is how a RPG or at least Mythic + should be and not just a farming spott to get close to Raid HC Gear for faceroll content. Ppl like you turn this Game more and more into !@#$ because they want to put less effort into the game and get 100000% out of it. Thats how they nerfed at Cata HC's dungeon and Raggy HC because they cried about the diffeculty. Instant of having fun and enjoy the challange. C'thun was not doable for Month because he was Mathematicly Broken.. and still ppl tried to take him down.

Although Gear used to be something which makes it special and rewarding but you jsut want to get it for free. I like the new Changes because I like to get Gear when I put effort into the game. It is more satisfying then just Diablo-Loot-System.
04/07/2017 22:17Posted by Thezral
Mimimimimi.. Thread.

04/07/2017 21:54Posted by Alysbub
I don't have time to join a raid team to clear HC or Mythic to get decent loot, so high M+ was a sweet spot that had been missing from wow. If only blizz had not applied the additional difficulty scaling and reduced the amount of loot dropped I'd still be running them every night.


So first of all why the heck you cry about a game which got finaly hard and has at Mythic 10+ close old HC's standarts for Modern WoW player. If its to hard for you or you dont have the time to put effort into the game you dont deserve the Gear. Thats it and that is how a RPG or at least Mythic + should be and not just a farming spott to get close to Raid HC Gear for faceroll content. Ppl like you turn this Game more and more into !@#$ because they want to put less effort into the game and get 100000% out of it. Thats how they nerfed at Cata HC's dungeon and Raggy HC because they cried about the diffeculty. Instant of having fun and enjoy the challange. C'thun was not doable for Month because he was Mathematicly Broken.. and still ppl tried to take him down.

Although Gear used to be something which makes it special and rewarding but you jsut want to get it for free. I like the new Changes because I like to get Gear when I put effort into the game. It is more satisfying then just Diablo-Loot-System.


Firstly I don't want ez mode or faceroll as that's boring and enjoy a challenge, and I have respect for players that clear difficult content and appreciate that it takes skill, team work and dedication. I've run loads of M+ and was close to getting +15 ach I just wanted to continue getting incremental upgrades and keep pushing higher keys. The M+ system is ideal to run at adhoc times as it doesn't require signing up to a guild roster if you know you can't attend for the full duration 3 times a week for 4+ hours. I'm happy that I don't have Tier gear and Mythic raid bespoke skins or curve achievements. I just want to enjoy the game and have a drip feed of upgrades :)
Well last installment of mythic+ was just too rewarding compared to the effort put into the content. You didnt even have to do a +10 to get max benefit, three chesting a +8 still granted basicly everyone in group a 890 item. Making the system far to lucrative for the time invested, especially in focus groups which helped eachother out by wearing same armor class, choosing loot specs for relic types etc.

I still agree with many that the +11-15 difficulties miss one of the +5 ilvl / difficulty stepstones making the +11 have 890 loot and the final loot cap being at 910. It whould be better to put the +15 loot at 915, making the final reward in those dungeons equal to all hc ToS gear prior to Kil'Jaeden. Especially since the chest mirrors that of mythic ToS ilvls.

As to the amounts of loot granted for each dungeon it seem fine tbh. 3 pieces of loot is reasonable, given its divided by 5 players and it put mythic+ more in line with raiding. The formula is 20% per raid member, making 10 players have 2 pieces, 15 players 3 pieces and 20 players 4 pieces of loot per boss. Given that you cant repeatedly do raids to attempt to get more loot each week puts the loot at fairly equal levels in my opinion.

As for the difficulty... the difficulty for maximum myth+ ilvls are for once reasonable. Once people start to adjust to how the difficulty scaling cause changes in approaches to the mythic+ difficulty, we should see a far smoother gameplay even in pugs. I still see people focus on full AoE and stuns to try clear every trashpack without them having a chance to strike back, which was viable in previous +10 difficulties. Those strategies must now be shelfed for a more priority target approach to trash packs, were well timed stuns and interupts maybe even cc usage will be the new meta gameplay.

Theres still some overtuned abilities of some trash mobs and bosses, that i hope blizzard take a serious look at and tune down a bit. But that dont have anything to do with the overall difficulties of the new system. Theres also a matter of some affixes being overtuned and way to punishing, but thats also a different topic.

These adjustments in gameplay aint anything new to people who enjoyed pushing keys back in 7.1-7.2, but for most of the wows mythic+ scene the requirement of such things werent present in the difficulties 8-10, which were the most commonly runned dungeon difficulties for farm groups. As the meta progress people will change the approach and that aint a thing we see overnight, it do take time even for us more seasoned players with tons of mythic+ runs below the belt.

Personally i ran mostly for gear and AP in previous systems so +8-10's, finding it the most rewarding and great for my tripple spec gameplay. In a way im outraged like all else that blizzard nerfed the loot, since it make it way harder for me to gear up all my specs aswell as getting the AP required to stay in good shape.

However the new system is overall far better for the WoW community since it promotes way better gameplay to get the higher ilvl rewards in the game and it also prevents alot of the issues with ilvl inflations. Many players have 920 ilvl while being at the performance level of 885 players, which is quite frustrating for both parties. First the 920 ilvl dude have to push content way out of his own skill level and the other group members have to go trought the frustration of a good geared player with awfull performance. The system do however punish some players, but in the long run this change will switch the game into a more healthy direction.
04/07/2017 23:14Posted by Chejian
Well last installment of mythic+ was just too rewarding compared to the effort put into the content. You didnt even have to do a +10 to get max benefit, three chesting a +8 still granted basicly everyone in group a 890 item. Making the system far to lucrative for the time invested, especially in focus groups which helped eachother out by wearing same armor class, choosing loot specs for relic types etc.

I still agree with many that the +11-15 difficulties miss one of the +5 ilvl / difficulty stepstones making the +11 have 890 loot and the final loot cap being at 910. It whould be better to put the +15 loot at 915, making the final reward in those dungeons equal to all hc ToS gear prior to Kil'Jaeden. Especially since the chest mirrors that of mythic ToS ilvls.

As to the amounts of loot granted for each dungeon it seem fine tbh. 3 pieces of loot is reasonable, given its divided by 5 players and it put mythic+ more in line with raiding. The formula is 20% per raid member, making 10 players have 2 pieces, 15 players 3 pieces and 20 players 4 pieces of loot per boss. Given that you cant repeatedly do raids to attempt to get more loot each week puts the loot at fairly equal levels in my opinion.

As for the difficulty... the difficulty for maximum myth+ ilvls are for once reasonable. Once people start to adjust to how the difficulty scaling cause changes in approaches to the mythic+ difficulty, we should see a far smoother gameplay even in pugs. I still see people focus on full AoE and stuns to try clear every trashpack without them having a chance to strike back, which was viable in previous +10 difficulties. Those strategies must now be shelfed for a more priority target approach to trash packs, were well timed stuns and interupts maybe even cc usage will be the new meta gameplay.

Theres still some overtuned abilities of some trash mobs and bosses, that i hope blizzard take a serious look at and tune down a bit. But that dont have anything to do with the overall difficulties of the new system. Theres also a matter of some affixes being overtuned and way to punishing, but thats also a different topic.

These adjustments in gameplay aint anything new to people who enjoyed pushing keys back in 7.1-7.2, but for most of the wows mythic+ scene the requirement of such things werent present in the difficulties 8-10, which were the most commonly runned dungeon difficulties for farm groups. As the meta progress people will change the approach and that aint a thing we see overnight, it do take time even for us more seasoned players with tons of mythic+ runs below the belt.

Personally i ran mostly for gear and AP in previous systems so +8-10's, finding it the most rewarding and great for my tripple spec gameplay. In a way im outraged like all else that blizzard nerfed the loot, since it make it way harder for me to gear up all my specs aswell as getting the AP required to stay in good shape.

However the new system is overall far better for the WoW community since it promotes way better gameplay to get the higher ilvl rewards in the game and it also prevents alot of the issues with ilvl inflations. Many players have 920 ilvl while being at the performance level of 885 players, which is quite frustrating for both parties. First the 920 ilvl dude have to push content way out of his own skill level and the other group members have to go trought the frustration of a good geared player with awfull performance. The system do however punish some players, but in the long run this change will switch the game into a more healthy direction.


Great reply and accept what your saying, just difficult patch to accept when your enjoying the Great Game and looking forward to progressing higher keys - I'll just have to accept that I've got as far as I can and move on :)
04/07/2017 23:48Posted by Alysbub
Great reply and accept what your saying, just difficult patch to accept when your enjoying the Great Game and looking forward to progressing higher keys - I'll just have to accept that I've got as far as I can and move on :)


Well tbh. just keep run mythic+. Ive learnt tons of new stuff wiping in the new difficulties and I feel i keep improving at a steady pace. Im mainly a healer afterall and learning how to deal with heavy damage spikes and how to properly utilizing my full kit is a rewarding experience in its own way. I even switch gear configurations depending on individual bosses now, which is a fresh breeze in the daily grind. Never really thought id swap around normaly banked legendaries at this rate. Now i carry Prydaz, Roots, Velens, the resto boots, the chain heal bracers, the totem gloves aswell as the riptide belt which i never really used and i end up switching around between packs or bosses depending on the needs.

The difficulty felt discouraging at first after the easy going of previous 8-10's during the previous system. But Ive noticed that more players are adapting to the changes for each passing day and it have overall felt like a positive experience. Sure once in a while you get into groups way below expectation, but that will always be a thing while picking up complete strangers.
The percentage change did affect the difficulty levels of higher keys. Less loot is the obvious frustration for players that had "more" and now have "less". With the new gear from ToS and unlocked M+ the difficulty will go down a bit, likely to previous levels allowing taking benefit of more loot above +15 to more players.

What I don't like is the fixed linear scaling of everything for every dungeon. Karazan up/down is very uneven. CoEN designed around higher gear turned out to be a nightmare when put through M+. Wouldn't be surprised if Argus dungeon will have the same problem (unless they make base variant for 98-100 like others).

They could implement some modifiers to dungeons and some boss abilities. Like Upper Kara mana wyrm mana balls could do less damage but spawn in greater numbers or something. Lower Kara mobs could change with some mob-related affixes into less stronger ones or work differently with those affixes.
05/07/2017 00:16Posted by Chejian
04/07/2017 23:48Posted by Alysbub
Great reply and accept what your saying, just difficult patch to accept when your enjoying the Great Game and looking forward to progressing higher keys - I'll just have to accept that I've got as far as I can and move on :)


Well tbh. just keep run mythic+. Ive learnt tons of new stuff wiping in the new difficulties and I feel i keep improving at a steady pace. Im mainly a healer afterall and learning how to deal with heavy damage spikes and how to properly utilizing my full kit is a rewarding experience in its own way. I even switch gear configurations depending on individual bosses now, which is a fresh breeze in the daily grind. Never really thought id swap around normaly banked legendaries at this rate. Now i carry Prydaz, Roots, Velens, the resto boots, the chain heal bracers, the totem gloves aswell as the riptide belt which i never really used and i end up switching around between packs or bosses depending on the needs.

The difficulty felt discouraging at first after the easy going of previous 8-10's during the previous system. But Ive noticed that more players are adapting to the changes for each passing day and it have overall felt like a positive experience. Sure once in a while you get into groups way below expectation, but that will always be a thing while picking up complete strangers.


I hear you about changing gear, for me its about the time it will take to get my ilvl back up where people running +13's and above will accept a 916 dps when they can get a higher ilvl geared raider...so doesn't seem viable anymore - just the hard reset and new scaling...enjoy the game and GL for me I'm done
Same old format as overgeared but bad performers. Cannot even join groups unless you start your own for gear. People want fast run not to take in scenery or even bother with raid mechanics. So Blizzard should punish them more by making lower raids dungeons harder if they join trying to "one shot". They get bored in 2 weeks after running all content. Then you get boost runs charging insane gold amount fro not a lot of good gear. Game is going toxic. Easier to do old content for transmog runs and mounts. Yes 916 is way to low "cough" howabout we ask 970 gear for EN normal (drops 875 gear)! Sadly still playing after 3 years but not doing much now as end content is so much a waste of time with way too many toxic random players.
05/07/2017 08:01Posted by Alysbub

I hear you about changing gear, for me its about the time it will take to get my ilvl back up where people running +13's and above will accept a 916 dps when they can get a higher ilvl geared raider...so doesn't seem viable anymore - just the hard reset and new scaling...enjoy the game and GL for me I'm done


My 914 boomkin did plenty of +15'a. At 916 your gear isn't an issue.
05/07/2017 17:13Posted by Chakrapanda
Same old format as overgeared but bad performers. Cannot even join groups unless you start your own for gear. People want fast run not to take in scenery or even bother with raid mechanics. So Blizzard should punish them more by making lower raids dungeons harder if they join trying to "one shot". They get bored in 2 weeks after running all content. Then you get boost runs charging insane gold amount fro not a lot of good gear. Game is going toxic. Easier to do old content for transmog runs and mounts. Yes 916 is way to low "cough" howabout we ask 970 gear for EN normal (drops 875 gear)! Sadly still playing after 3 years but not doing much now as end content is so much a waste of time with way too many toxic random players.


I don't classify myself as a bad performer - just being realistic what level I can play at given the time I can put in. Plus I also like to give back to the community helping out randoms or going out of my way to fly people around if they don't know where to find something. There are more nice players than toxic ones - my sole issue is with the new scaling.

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