7.3 and the old talent system

General
Blizzard had a CHance to put Talent-Trees back with Artifact-Weapon all they needed to do was you can only Spend-X Points in that Weapon. So iinstant of 52 Spend points you only have 21. This will make Theorycrafting and RP-Gaming interristing again. Anyway What also would be nice if we have the possibility to reforge our Gear. 90% of the Drop you get !@#$ty-Stuff like Crit and Vesality. In Cata you could reforge it into smth else to benefit more of it. Next thing. Bring Hit-Cap/Def-Cap/Expertise-Cap back. Make sure that we have the Chance to get Pre-Raid Gear to see how we Progress. Also Attument. Just like in TBC: First you do T-4 because if you didn't do it you couldn't do T-5. And for Hyjal/BT you needed t-5 content.
Interesting...
Why would it be interesting.
there would be an optimal route people read off the internet.
a cookie cutter build..
oh yes.. those excisted in vanilla as well.
What a large and advanced skill tree introduce is
cookie cutter builds people follow
one or two that understand to make their own optimal build
and a lot of suboptimal speced persons that have no clue why they suck.

In tbc the choise of the shadow priest was more and less i could move 2 points around...
and in vanilla half if not up to 70% of talent trees could be removed because they was not usefull in raid at all.

22/07/2017 18:49Posted by Thezral
Blizzard had a CHance to put Talent-Trees back with Artifact-Weapon all they needed to do was you can only Spend-X Points in that Weapon. So iinstant of 52 Spend points you only have 21. This will make Theorycrafting and RP-Gaming interristing again. Anyway What also would be nice if we have the possibility to reforge our Gear. 90% of the Drop you get !@#$ty-Stuff like Crit and Vesality. In Cata you could reforge it into smth else to benefit more of it. Next thing. Bring Hit-Cap/Def-Cap/Expertise-Cap back. Make sure that we have the Chance to get Pre-Raid Gear to see how we Progress. Also Attument. Just like in TBC: First you do T-4 because if you didn't do it you couldn't do T-5. And for Hyjal/BT you needed t-5 content.


what you suggest is more and less what wildstar gave in their raiding experience and the reason why the game fell so hard.
I just click all the ones on the left. Since the loss of the proper talent trees this list is a load of same old same old anyway. Its hardly a talent tree, come on. Its just lazy gameplay to make things easy. I mean they also got rid of all the spcialisation stuff that allowed you to make a truly unique character. Evidently it was too difficult for the current player base to understand. That's why I just click all the ones on the left... So I don't get the annoying reminder that I have unspent talent points. Whoopeedooo.

Time was I actually felt with each level I was progressing. Going back and training was part of the game process and made me feel special. Same with weapon training and craft and specialist skills. It all added up to progression. Now its just a click from the shortest list in any game I've played. So that's progression. Like I say, its how the games developers see their player base now.

AGAIN I say.. why not give players options. Dilute all you like, but if players 'want' complexity then let them have it. But don't reduce everything down to the lowest common denominator and then shave even more stuff off it. Its just boring.
22/07/2017 19:42Posted by Irrii
Evidently it was too difficult for the current player base to understand.


Things like sigils and librams and talent tree's where removed in Cata so nothing to do with the current user base at all it was the player base moveing from wotlk to cata when the rot set it .
Sorry i had to take you to task on that one because players whined at the end of wotlk it was to confuseing and at start of cata heroics where nerfed .It is the wrath baby that bought all this down on us.
22/07/2017 19:20Posted by Veliandis

what you suggest is more and less what wildstar gave in their raiding experience and the reason why the game fell so hard.


I played wild-Star but the most ppl quite :D
22/07/2017 14:48Posted by Kalila
Because haveing 3/3 wand skills was so fun

Yis! Exactly! And all talents were like "Increases being dumb on forums by 3-15%!". Go Harry Potter Online dude.

Depends on person, I rather have all mechanics of my class with talents slightly increasing specific playstyle than having few posibilities and being stuck on specific fight with one rotation.

22/07/2017 18:28Posted by Kalila
In TBC i remember t5 and fire mages being king but though and behold first boss in TK was fire res so we either had to repsec to either arc or frost very painful and costly every wednesday night then go and do it again to spec back fire for rest of raid .i dont want to be doing that again i dont find it immersive or fun just time consuming and P.I.T.A.

I agree that was dumb, really dumb. They could make some kind of potion that causes fire spells to deal frost damage or something.
22/07/2017 20:37Posted by Vafelek
really dumb

Yes you are
22/07/2017 19:20Posted by Veliandis
there would be an optimal route people read off the internet.
a cookie cutter build..
oh yes.. those excisted in vanilla as well.
What a large and advanced skill tree introduce is
cookie cutter builds people follow
one or two that understand to make their own optimal build
and a lot of suboptimal speced persons that have no clue why they suck.
Right, there's a cookie cutter build and then a few choices at the end of it, and even there most people will take the advice of veterans to start with only to experiment later...

Exactly of like the AP system in 7.3. In fact, the 7.3 system is basically a codified form of the talent tree cookie cutter build. That's why I'm saying it's so similar to the old talent trees.

There's also cookie cutter builds in the current talent system, after which some experimentation can be done. Sometimes, however, the cookie cutter build is per boss, and we're spamming tomes all over the place to change our talents to cookie cutter every boss.

You CANNOT get rid of cookie cutter builds. It's not a problem. Get over it.

22/07/2017 19:20Posted by Veliandis
what you suggest is more and less what wildstar gave in their raiding experience and the reason why the game fell so hard.
No, the reason why Wildstar failed is because it instantly went from super casual to super hardcore. There was no gradient there, and no time to get friends. WoW succeeded because end-game raiding was easy, and only became progressively harder as the community built itself.
22/07/2017 14:41Posted by Ishayu
22/07/2017 14:39Posted by Retier
i like being able to easily change talents between fights. if they were to have vanilla-wrath talent trees i'd want them to offer that same functionality. i also worry that changing 20 talents between bosses would be significantly more annoying than 1 or 2, so there would need to be some kind of talent preset feature.
If you're going to be able to change them between fights and all the time anyway, would it make a lot more sense to just have them all, but have some restrictions in place so you can't use them all at the same time somehow?

Also, I know this might be unpopular, but I really don't like changing my character's build between fights. I actually think it's pretty annoying and definitely doesn't make it feel like customisation at all.

I agree.
Abilities should either be a real choice or simply baked in. At this stage I guess baked in would be more agreeable to the playerbase as having to make a choice seems to be rather unpopular.
This talent swapping every fight makes a mockery of these abilities being "Talents" as every ability is available pretty much all the time anyhow just that you need to remember to swap them occasionally.
What's the point in having a choosing system but nobody is prepared to make a choice?
If I have to farm AP for this I'm gonna throw my character off a cliff and delete it. Please the people who got to test that tell me it's not related to AP, I beg you
26/07/2017 00:56Posted by Windwhisper
If I have to farm AP for this I'm gonna throw my character off a cliff and delete it. Please the people who got to test that tell me it's not related to AP, I beg you


While I'm not part of the testing team, I'd assume that it being an AP grind is a safe bet, seeing as Artifact Knowledge is increasing again.

Also AP has been the entire theme of the expansion, much like Apexis Crystals were the theme of WoD and dailies were the theme of MoP.

__

All of you people !@#$%ing that players used to just google a talent tree... Ughhhh, what do people do now to maximise their playability?

Oh right. Google a talent tree.
26/07/2017 00:56Posted by Windwhisper
If I have to farm AP for this I'm gonna throw my character off a cliff and delete it. Please the people who got to test that tell me it's not related to AP, I beg you
You do have to AP farm this as well. Lots of AP farming ahoy!
We already prepared material about talents here (when Киджи still played WoW)
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17611491478?page=1#11
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17610601495?page=1#12
- it's about ideological basis of talents, more links here -
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17612033159?page=2#post-22
- 1st is also true for questing-adventure part -
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17611973561?page=11#post-209
Way is now isn't a MMO https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20755565987 where every person have own story, it's for solo+story playing and also not much RPG https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615394173 with so poor variability and replayability. Situation changes only slightly with respect to classes, but this applies only to Legion content, and it doesn't change story between different representatives of the class in the end, so doesn't change anything significantly at all.

Some my offtopic additions, sorry.
I come in WoW long ago from RO (Киджи from FPS-s, funny, isn't it? (What's even more amusing, Witch (a great fan of classic shooters) calls Overwatch - first-person-(heroes_balance_mocking&roles)moba, a glamorous show for little girls and content generator for horny school children) But old WoW was a game where such different people could met, new - isn't) so threads like this https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754487457 I really appreciate. WoW was even in classic way so-o-o-o easy in comparison.. and still interesting system as whole, RPG-logic wise (ex. LK, it's not about talents but as whole system's harmony)
.....
- no artificial timegating or endless process, only time you spend -
1) working on weapon skills => get enough skill to use weapon
2) getting some items - green, then better - blue => min char-cs
3) working on you hit rating and mastery => kap for better fights
4) learn fight's mechanic and mastered your performance + rep-n
- you know where to get thru reputation+crafting+farming more or less equivalent and what is chance of dropping of necessary equip, recipes or an ingredients, no random numbers or boxes with generated items, you have reforging, enchants, jewelry stones and also gliphs for tuning -
5) working on even 'better characteristics' without losing kap-s
6) crafting or obtaining resist+penetration items (spec-c fights)
- catch up mechanic thru instances+pugs, crafts and friends (social) -
+ good stuff about part of vanila (part of LK already had it worse):
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2147740-What-made-classic-wow-better-than-current?p=46117512&viewfull=1#post46117512
.....

That's how MMORPG works, not the way WoW have now - NO! in any universe. The stuff you getting now is absolutely absurd.

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