Bring back old specs

General
Ok so im pretty sure im not the only one that liked Combat Rogue spec or survial hunter etc . So my idea is for blizzard to add back this specs and no dont remove outlaw or new survial. But wouldent it be better in first place if they felt the urge to make new specs for certain classes to just have 4 specs. Im pretty sure there was alot survial hunters out there verry disapointed when blizzard disaid to ruin there spec. im not talking bout ruin in the way of nerfing but actully maked it melee spec.
Every new idea after Krizz Metzen is just stupid and boring.Garrisons dumbing down the pvp new(booooring specs like for real survival hunt melee?WTF?survival hunter is supposed to have good toolkits vs melee classes while still shooting arrows bullets or whatever from range).Blizz just admit that you failed big time.Heck i play more on the private servers nowadays than on WoW just becouse the game now is so dumb.
I think combat spec was too similar to the other two rogue specs personally. I couldn't stand combat spec, but I love outlaw now.

Also survival spec made me actually like hunters so I can't really complain about that either. They have two other ranged specs anyway.

Still, if there was a big demand for it I wouldn't be against adding them in as a fourth spec. I think the changes were good but choice is always good too *shrug*
When artifact weapons are gone, can we go back to having multiple choice specs? I preferred playing my fury warriors with one hander, and I'm sure some Frost DKS preferred 2 handers.

Survival was changed because there was virtually no difference between hunter specs. Survival wasn't actually supposed to be the "anti melee ranged spec", it was intended to be a melee/ranged hybrid spec, but overall just turned into an absolute mess.

Kind of like a lot of Vanilla specs, really.
28/07/2017 09:59Posted by Luciferø
Ok so im pretty sure im not the only one that liked Combat Rogue spec or survial hunter etc . So my idea is for blizzard to add back this specs and no dont remove outlaw or new survial. But wouldent it be better in first place if they felt the urge to make new specs for certain classes to just have 4 specs. Im pretty sure there was alot survial hunters out there verry disapointed when blizzard disaid to ruin there spec. im not talking bout ruin in the way of nerfing but actully maked it melee spec.


Old *survival hunter* would be what it is now.

Im gonna guess you started in wotlk or cata.
Old *survival hunter* would be what it is now.

Im gonna guess you started in wotlk or cata.
I guess you just never did understand survival part of hunter at all. https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17616072604?page=3#post-59
I think combat spec was too similar to the other two rogue specs personally. I couldn't stand combat spec, but I love outlaw now.
It was master of weapons, agile blade fighter (speed, passive bonuses, more health and surviving, less been controlled), somehow like old survival for hunters. And outlaw with pistols out of rogue class, because they shouldn't have stealth_mechanic+poisons+weapon_master - rather middle_range_fight+engenering stuff they specializing, BUT every rogue must have stealth+poisons+lock_picking+trap_disarming+melee_fight_prioritet. They aren't pirates, never were. By the way, classic rogues weren't so weapon attached, combat in this sense was even better then others - could specialised the weapon they more prefer the same way as classic arms warriors (like spec-in-spec, as gladiator+grip_fury warriors and fDK's part of the tree, which were a very good innovation), but transmogrification in some way killed sense in this cosmetic RPG-wise part of the game. Doesn't metter that you didn't like it; someone did. It just wasn't fit your style of play, so you could.. I don't know.. don't play it?

For the reference, about the 'classic-specializations':
Subtlety
- stealth (burst, bonuses, functionality), armor decrease, bleeds, mobility
Combat
- passive bonuses weapons+stats+energy_recovering+survival+face-to-face_combat
Assassin
- more energy, combat points generation and stronger crits, poisons
but mechanics (basic set of skills and abilities) for all representatives of the class were the same, because this is what class really means, and they could specializing a little in every direction and choose from the stuff what suit their style better, because this is what spec really means. So people who claiming that they were all alike are mistaken in the same degree as people claiming the similarity of old hunters specializations.

You aren't see forest behind the trees.

================================
A small general digression:
================================

The most terrible damage caused by Pandaria isn't only trees removal (cata already much damaged them), but also removal of common 3-weapons-system (distance/bonus + melee(1h,oh/2h)/bonus) - this is exactly the moment when WoW's universal (equable for all classes) equip system began to collapse. Artifact was to become paragon system (pass of Titans) - universal second tree for entire class, and not one of specializations (in extreme cases (but shouldn't) take place a slot with 'bonus' role). Beginning of work on it supposed to be during the first visit of classhall, but not Legion's garrison at 100+ levels, rather real one, which would supervise characters starting from 10+ levels with universal full game content quests (and that's only one part (+ time travel, but it's less for lore, more for keeping players busy) of content where scaling technology really should be implementing, but nowhere else).

That's what Киджи wrote about in one of paragraphs here https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17610981805?page=2#post-37 and that's what I call a lost opportunity.. but it was implemented in another way to the story and let would be ashamed those who think that Legion has a good lore (details in the same link).

For those who'll argue with mythic+, I'll explain that dungeons can have more complex bosses(also lurking or walking random here and there) + mechanisms(time-bound or resource-based) + directions(unstable or closed) + branches(temporarily cut) + cores(farther and deeper) of labyrinth that would not_opened+impassable with low level gear, but with patch-progress and grows of characters straight becomes relevant (as BH, VoA, Dragonshrines, Auchindoun and others but much more voluminous - like most of all vanilla dungeons but not new short 'faster!faster!-scenarios', this is so universal solution that works also for open world content with limited flights and certain locations design), remaining thus inaccessible to unprepared group and relevant entire addon.
Mythic+ not needed

- repetition, repetition and again repetition -
Too much work for developers?
- excuses, excuses and again excuses -
This is what we can call content, but not the same story for every character you lvling = Boring? I guess so. 'G-g-good lo-o-ore'?.. heh, not even near.
================================

Does Legion look like this? I don't think so.. a-and that's why it scx!

ps Sorry for offtopic, somehow I got carried away %Ъ
01/08/2017 18:02Posted by Жюль
So people who claiming that they were all alike are mistaken in the same degree as people claiming the similarity of old hunters specializations.


I disagree. I used to play rogue before the class changes, and their specs really didn't seem different enough to me. And the differences in combat that there were were awful.

Also why do you want ranged weapons on melee classes again? They were just statsticks, that's it.
I would love to have a spec that played like cata enh :)
If you spec into Slice and Dice (which isn't much lower than RtB on performance) with Outlaw, you can go pretty similar to Combat.

What I hated with a passion on the old Combat spec was Bandit's Guile. Doing pitiful damage until it finally ramped up felt terrible to me. But to each their own, I guess.
Жюль my friend I love mythic+ dungeons and lore is fine for me . It just a
game. Go and play with you'r friend mythic + 15 dungeons . It will be funny :)
Just one thing I miss and that's Killing Spree from combat rogue spec. ( why they put this as talent , )
Really? Survival is soo much cooler now. For 14 years I hated the fact that there is no meleespecc with hunter, despite them having quite a lot of melee-attacks (in the past). They also always wore meleeweapons until a few years ago.
Plus, the speccs gameplay is AWESOME!

But, I agree, there should be a fourth specc for every class. Its loooong overdue. Screw new races or classes.

They aren't pirates, never were.

Pah, my frist char in 2004 was a dwarven rogue PIRATE! He even had the swahbucklershirt and the captains hat from Booty Bay.
To me, rogues will always be pirates.
Well, I answer in order -a deep breath-



===== 2Minan
I disagree. I used to play rogue before the class changes, and their specs really didn't seem different enough to me. And the differences in combat that there were were awful.
I don't want to enter into polemics with you, because I generally like opinions, dialog is good, healthy dialog is what ActiBlizzard really need, but opinions should based on some more general arguments+facts and I already gave you some. It's absolutely not important whether you agree with them or not, like it or not, this how it works and that's -point on Celestalon- how not. Since you didn't bring them, I will try to bring the most significant of mine. Your opinion concerns only you, and you could play when there were some significant changes, could play incorrectly or don't understand certain moments. Therefore, my main argument is: I know at least 3 people who won't agree with you. They chose different as mains and they liked it, which means that everything suited them and they didn't want to change build. You know that I'm not wrong and people realy used and prefer different so they were different enough, this means I'm not lying and now you should try to beat it, could you? It's funny that in Pandaria, when mobility was extended to whole class, combat began used much more for PvP.
More examples of inconsistency of your reasoning:
- 15/31/5 daggers -
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#f0gcoLZMeV00Ez0roV
- 19/32/0 swords -
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#f0efoxZMhqbbVzxfo
I believe, my friend, that you will say that they don't differ :} since this is the same 'spec', am I right? But they differ in a couple of significant points that will affect choice of race, preferred gear and abilities. checkmate. As you can see, classic combat because of these 'differences in combat that there were were awful' was one of the main choices in PvE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br1hXGXJ7Tg + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQqHKJtzQbM (funny comments, Киджи after 12 years still played with no information, because always liked it this way), because unlike brothers in arms, it was about 'combat', and not about 'tricky killing people'-outlaw..http://i.imgur.com/EAeL2Vr With taking approach, on which you insist, integrity of the class will be violated (read earlier stuff for I don't want to repeat myself), even bigger problems with balance begin because of this, so balancing 13 classes is one thing, but 40 is quite another and many other unpleasant stuff. Formally this is just imaginary uniqueness. Build - that's what's important, and not different icons with different skill names (- these uniqueness in LK was more than enough without ruining classes). That's s-o-o unique:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752245111
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752386029
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749788539
- I insist in reading last topic to the end, it ended funny -
So is gameplay:
go run+spamonebutton+proc >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRIgeA5iHaI | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sSX9GqBYvM << - this is their every class(=spec)-fantasy now
- Unique gameplay and mechanics of the class? Ha! All are monks now.
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752405875#post-6
More links here:
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17612033159?page=2#post-22

Questions? No? Well, then let's go further.
Also why do you want ranged weapons on melee classes again? They were just statsticks, that's it.
Firstly, it's not about melee+range weapons, you again fall into particulars. Perhaps I formulated it a little knotty - it's about main+bonus item. Rogues and not only them used throwing weapons, although more significant range ones too, in order to have all logical reasons for causing damage at a distance, and now it looks like this http://s02.yapfiles.ru/files/1586766/maskguns.gif
On the other hand, this was not their primary combat priority, and therefore no one questioned that they could not use it at full strength (after all, there are ronin+sakura classes in 'RPG-slasher' like BDO that have bonuses in talents for bows, problems? with good trees ActiBlizzard could make it simply happen), and casters even with full oom could not only hit with a staff in melee, but also use magic wand in range, is it bad? And I'm not talking about hybrid-weapon classes like hunters http://imgur.com/LSVb4fM (reference from here https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17611551590#post-6 ) who used both types of weapons in full force, they had good bonus talents for them and it also explained no-shot zone, but not mythical arrows in head at point-blank range.
And now we returning to main+bonus explanation: classes that didn't use their bonus weapons - had magic, thereby explaining their distance magical abilities, which were not a strong part of their branch of talent. In fact, they carried real bonus + artifact (librams, totems, marks - all hybrids (RIP), isn't it?) (as we started with BDO examples-equivalents, so knots for Berserkers and Dark Knights + awakened weapon (with separate tree), those who plays, should know) >:]

It's just RPG wise. Do I need to explain more?



===== 2Taigertraps
I would love to have a spec that played like cata enh :)
http://i.imgur.com/XS5LK.gif
I remember how Киджи loved this http://i.imgur.com/Fm15bpl 'beauty' (always played in enh; we played for alliance, so always = since TBC http://imgur.com/a/yQlFB (reference from here https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17610982838?page=48#post-953 )), I don't know if it because of race http://i.imgur.com/SkUGEOm or gameplay, probably all together. I remember how Witch was happy to get one-button-4-totems-installation and then ability to move them were player want. And how was shocked by change of appearance - https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/12439455182?page=27#post-528 wolf form - https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613001612#post-7 and removal of totems from rotation. And when they took away shocks, completely annihilated totems, took away all basic healing abilities and lightnings without talents can now be removed from spellbar, but instead gave mechanic to enh that somehow resembling old paladins seals with just add few judgment buttons - this became tantamount to removing class from the game. Most of totem strengthening talents were exactly in enh branch, but each one had some unique bonuses to them.. because this part of 'shaman' class mechanics, the same way as shocks, lightnings, magic shields, elementals, water+nature healing spells and weapons properties modification.

Yes, I don't have shaman, but it still was a very painful sight. Киджи seems will never forget and never forgive them for the incorrectly models changing, nor for the twisted (classes and not only) gameplay https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/12439455182?page=27#post-538

http://i.imgur.com/Ma7n4.jpg



===== 2Cayssaellea
Almost all my friends have left, and I'm almost certain that if game were in the form in which I described, you also played it in the same way, but then you won't only the one kind of joyfull player. You can be a different person with other priorities, there is nothing wrong with that (that's true =>):
But to each their own, I guess.
but again this is not an argument for or against. I have already apologized for offtopic, so don't think that it's worth developing it more here, sorry :]

Killing Spree was just a drop in the ocean of illogical changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScNNfyq3d_w



===== 2Uvi
there should be a fourth specc for every class
Because in order to introduce such in game they will have to give a little melee for each spec, for preserved class integrity, and not each spec is a separate class, but, as you correctly noted, there is no secondary=bonus weapon and we have returned to what I said above to Minan. Simple.
Pah, my frist char in 2004 was a dwarven rogue PIRATE!
Every rogue can be pirat, but not every pirate can be rogue - that the difference ;] Here you go (don't forget links):
But charm of the old talent-trees/approach to classes was just that they could withstand ( http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17611501090?page=2#35 ) the most unusual combinations ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742794899 ), but "new fancy" yet so narrow that consciousness is necessary to be huddle so much for fitting into this framework http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748736095#post-12


=|=|=
A-a-and done https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64SkLaN8Ew Sorry, just joking. But really, all elements worked as a single whole, as connected stable system (without references just to classes, but as whole), but with each unreturned removal or illogical simplification it lost support parts and becoming more and more unstable. The end is a bit predictable, isn't it? http://imgur.com/aKznfN5. You could also see some links here https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17616461597?page=2#post-33

Did I miss someone? Are everybody happy?
http://imgur.com/mDu9LdW
Might have been linked above, but I came across this vid, and I thought it was an interesting idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX22uN7YqLE
i want old windfury back. windfury havent been a direct source of damage since wrath. the animation is even removed. all it is now is an RNG to lessen the RNG of other mechanics. and they did this because they didnt like how RNG having windfury as a main damage dealer. yet here we are still having a !@#$ton of RNG but less fun and satisfaction.

Windfury was what made me want to first try shaman and fell in love right away. having shaman friend telling me how powerfull my windfury was was so %^-*ing satisfying when you did a quad crit oneshots.
Even though i like Legion very much I can't wait for it to end.
I absolutely HATE being locked to certain type of weapons

-Forst Dk forced to dual wiel
-Holy Pala forced to 2hand

I absolutely hate how Blizzard designed Outlaw and after maining Combat for several years i rolled Sub due outlaw being so stupid (also I hate pirate class fantasy) and how they mutilated Survival hunter into faceless abomination that has so many problems on every segment of it's gameplay that it has to be redesigned from the very core.
02/08/2017 14:55Posted by Жюль
because I generally like opinions,


Then let me have mine. Also, tl;dr

Maybe mechanically they were different, but flavour-wise, they were all very similar in my opinion.
29/07/2017 23:50Posted by Miylee
When artifact weapons are gone, can we go back to having multiple choice specs? I preferred playing my fury warriors with one hander, and I'm sure some Frost DKS preferred 2 handers.


I still butthurt about the 2 popsicle that frost dks got instead of a 2 hander. I don't care that much about fury because i like the idea of 2 2hander but giving a choice to those who want to play it like that would be nice.

About Outlaw rogues... just give us back combat, it was a solid spec while outlaw with roll the bones is the ultimate rng spec.
I wouldn't mind having the ranged survival spec back on my hunter. It was my favourite spec until Legion happened. Now I'm forced to play BM. :(
2Minan
That's prove a lot.. %] Whatever. I don't think that even sarcasm will help in this hopeless case.

Might have been linked above, but I came across this vid, and I thought it was an interesting idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX22uN7YqLE

That's would be interesting, but if I could read this somewhere? I'm very bad with english and especially in listening. Even this big messages were made with a lot alien help. So I can't even said something meaningful about this. Is there place in the net where I could read it? By the way all cosmetics that based on random drop are bad, I don't think that understood everything there, but any random thing that player can't control in own character is bad - so Legendaries as part of 'build' are disaster and the more them, the worse. If it'll be a lot - so too specific and private, someone got and someone not, blind luck and no other dependence, that's the whole game. If a little - so too low customization.

Also did someone played Sacred? Upgrade spells thru drop was.. very exasperated.

And if we're alredy begin with unusual links. There is classless privat server on the net. I think that someone already heard about it. God, I hope I won't be banned for this, but it's just video links, so you at least could look at what I'm talking. I didn't played there and don't know if it's fun, but here you go taking another direction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m24ob0SyTu4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCB1TgXklBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IyO2X0OD-w
02/08/2017 19:02Posted by Murtysh
Even though i like Legion very much I can't wait for it to end.
I absolutely HATE being locked to certain type of weapons

-Forst Dk forced to dual wiel
-Holy Pala forced to 2hand


Frost DK will still be forced to dual wield after Legion. They decided to enforce weapon types due to balance not due to artifacts. For holy it really doesn't matter anyway.

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