Blizzard's Treatment of EU

General
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09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
In regards to the EU forums being ignored, I can accept that there's room for improvement but at the same time I think we have also come a long way over the past year or so.

In most cases Lore and Kaivax now mirror information onto the EU forum as soon as it gets posted on the NA forums rather than there being a delay of several hours. Yes, sometimes things fall the cracks or get missed and ideally we want to avoid this.

More recently (since Legion), the EU forums have had developers contributing in the Class Development forum and Watcher (Ion) has also posted several times on the EU forums in topics that were of interest to EU players but not necessarily to NA players.

When it comes to feedback, it isn't considered in a vacuum. We compile feedback from all the game regions (both EU and NA as well as ANZ, China etc.), this includes what players are saying on social media, fan sites, other forums, YouTube videos etc. We will drill down deeper if one region is resonating with something far more than others, to understand why that is the case and what (if any) action is appropriate.

There is also a 9 hour time difference between France (where the EU Community team is based) and California (where the developers are based). When we are in the office, the majority of the staff across the ocean are asleep or going to sleep. This means we don't have immediate access to get answers or information, so we send any requests or relevant details via email. More often than not, the feedback being raised by the EU player-base isn't that dissimilar to what is being raised by the NA player-base, so such matters become topics of discussion during office hours in California, this is often why information comes out during that time rather than during EU hours. Though there have been cases where information has been posted first on EU, which has lead to similar complaints from NA players about being ignored.

The information that we receive and post, in most cases, is a direct result of feedback relaying on a global level, not because one forum is preferred more than the other.

At the end of the day, our priority is to get any information we receive out into the community, it's not really a considered a problem whether that happens to be on the NA forum first, the EU forum first, or another platform entirely if it's more appropriate for the audience in question.

09/08/2017 17:19Posted by Thete
Sorry, did you just copy/paste a response from a Dev post on US forums in response to a complaint that Devs never respond to posts on EU forums? Did someone dare you for a laugh?


Yes I did, because it was information we received during the night that we were asked to share globally. Considering part of this thread was about the RP event in Europe that got missed I felt like it was the best place to put that information as it pertained specifically to the sharding topic. That being said, Community Managers aren't Developers.


Well how about Arena forums? yeh both eu/na being ignored.
09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
In regards to the EU forums being ignored, I can accept that there's room for improvement but at the same time I think we have also come a long way over the past year or so.


Main problem with the Eu customers , or better to say subscribers is the communication.

Like i already write biggest problem is that near every post we made in forums either General either Class or you can pick any one from the forums is that we got zero attention.

Most of those players have amazing ideas and they are suggesting them on the forums not just for me ,but to be read but at some point on some blue posters and actually to start some dialog like previous expansion.
I recall even some of my post in wotlk and other expansions got a nice dialog with chatting about what would be better , how to improve...and such things..

Right now sadly i wonder why you keep up the Eu forums open since the only participation you currently have is to close some threads because people are arguing each other..

This for me is a bad way to have communication to a large of course part of subscribers that you show an alter ego with the Us forums.

Just looking on the post...

Last month 34 re post in Us forums...
Last month 3 re post in Eu forums...that all of them was arguing people...we´re closing them...have fun...
I've been complaining about that damn hunter wolfhawk mount bug/deformation for a decent time (and im not even the only one), it never gets acknowledged. But when a DH cries about their wairglaves needed to be turned around they fixed it imidiatly.

Besides never getting any replies, they sure know to pick out the important stuff to fix...
09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
In regards to the EU forums being ignored, I can accept that there's room for improvement but at the same time I think we have also come a long way over the past year or so.

Well, you went from 0 blues to you, 1, so I guess. Congrats on a massive company having 1 public figure to address an entire region.

09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
There is also a 9 hour time difference between France (where the EU Community team is based) and California (where the developers are based). When we are in the office, the majority of the staff across the ocean are asleep or going to sleep.

It's weird, a company that put internet requirement on D3 can't understand how a US developer could possibly post on the EU forums.
You say it takes a while for you to get information / answers from the US devs because they're sleeping while you're working.. why can't they just post directly to us?

Blizzards a company that likes numbers, so here are the numbers:
Out of the past 80 blizzard forum posts, 30 are EU, 50 are US.
even thought that's a considerable amount more activity in US, that still isn't too bad to me..
What's bad is only 3 of those 30 EU posts are in response to someone (as in this thread, not a 'Feedback' or 'Hotfix' thread.
Whereas the US forums, out of those past 50, 15 are in response to threads created by a random player. So not only are you posting more on US but you're responding far more frequently too.

I don't think the EU forums are quite that bad, it annoyed me when people cried about the Q&A saying EU was ignored when questions were clearly taken from the EU thread, but to try an say you're doing your best / we're treated equal to the US, with these excuses relating to distance and time zone on the internet.. baffle me.
09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
In regards to the EU forums being ignored, I can accept that there's room for improvement but at the same time I think we have also come a long way over the past year or so.

In most cases Lore and Kaivax now mirror information onto the EU forum as soon as it gets posted on the NA forums rather than there being a delay of several hours. Yes, sometimes things fall the cracks or get missed and ideally we want to avoid this.

More recently (since Legion), the EU forums have had developers contributing in the Class Development forum and Watcher (Ion) has also posted several times on the EU forums in topics that were of interest to EU players but not necessarily to NA players.

When it comes to feedback, it isn't considered in a vacuum. We compile feedback from all the game regions (both EU and NA as well as ANZ, China etc.), this includes what players are saying on social media, fan sites, other forums, YouTube videos etc. We will drill down deeper if one region is resonating with something far more than others, to understand why that is the case and what (if any) action is appropriate.

There is also a 9 hour time difference between France (where the EU Community team is based) and California (where the developers are based). When we are in the office, the majority of the staff across the ocean are asleep or going to sleep. This means we don't have immediate access to get answers or information, so we send any requests or relevant details via email. More often than not, the feedback being raised by the EU player-base isn't that dissimilar to what is being raised by the NA player-base, so such matters become topics of discussion during office hours in California, this is often why information comes out during that time rather than during EU hours. Though there have been cases where information has been posted first on EU, which has lead to similar complaints from NA players about being ignored.

The information that we receive and post, in most cases, is a direct result of feedback relaying on a global level, not because one forum is preferred more than the other.

At the end of the day, our priority is to get any information we receive out into the community, it's not really a considered a problem whether that happens to be on the NA forum first, the EU forum first, or another platform entirely if it's more appropriate for the audience in question.

09/08/2017 17:19Posted by Thete
Sorry, did you just copy/paste a response from a Dev post on US forums in response to a complaint that Devs never respond to posts on EU forums? Did someone dare you for a laugh?


Yes I did, because it was information we received during the night that we were asked to share globally. Considering part of this thread was about the RP event in Europe that got missed I felt like it was the best place to put that information as it pertained specifically to the sharding topic. That being said, Community Managers aren't Developers.


Why is it so damn hard though, to reply to the class threads, (Rogue's to nerf Sub, and buff the other specs) on the EU forum? Do i have to listen to every fkingn week, every raid Night to "YO PZYHO, GO SUB FOR MYTHIC PROGRESS AND MYTHIC+ IT'S OP HERPA DERPA" Yeah thanks alot for ruining Legion for me. I won't play that boring and broken spec even though it pulls ahead with 400-900k more dps on average. This is BS. Might aswell unsub, because quite frankly you don't give a f*** and you're well aware of the difference but won't do anything about it.
09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
At the end of the day, our priority is to get any information we receive out into the community, it's not really a considered a problem whether that happens to be on the NA forum first, the EU forum first, or another platform entirely if it's more appropriate for the audience in question.


A LOT of the negative feedback that has been over the years about communication (or lack of) can be easily negated by "simply" merging the regional forums already. I know, I know, you have the usual speech lined up about language differences and Blizzard wants to communicate all the important stuff in all regional languages at the same time and so on and so forth. We've heard that before, just like we've heard that you've been hard at work improving communication for so and so long. But why does it have to take so long to make miniscule improvements? Sometimes the simple and easy solution is the correct solution. Merging.

Merge the American and European forums. Keep English as the primary language for the forums, with whichever subforums you want to create for other languages. With everyone having access to the same forums, everyone has access to the same information at the same time and can provide feedback at the same time, regardless of timezone differences.

As it is now, speaking from the heart, it feels like we are hitting a brick wall called The Atlantic Ocean. Any concerns and comments we have here in Europe on just about anything, seemingly sink to the bottom of the ocean on the way there. Because we only have indirect communication with those in charge, when they decide to reply directly on the american foums, we cannot easily tell them "we believe this is wrong or this would be better". As you mentioned, sometimes some things resonate differently across regions and when that happens, it feels like we are wasting valuable time getting across the pond. With one forum, we can post directly in the threads the devs are in and they can discuss those things in their meetings the same day, making adjustments to the plan directly as and when needed. With split forums, we have to create new threads here, hope one of you CMs read it, find it valuable enough to pass the info along, wait for the info to be read over there and then wait some more as they may or may not have another meeting before the changes are finalized. And we may be too late.

TL;DR: Merge the forums. Simple, yet effective solution to communication problems. I could write a couple of pages why, but they'll probably sink too.
There are few new topic being created in the PVP section, and fewer become popular. So you can see 2-3 popular posts for an entire month in the first page and most of them pointing out rational issues or possible fixes. Even we -the toxic pvp community- have united and we try to come up with ideas since we lost all hope for any response from Blizz employees. Yet, not a single response was given for a long long time. I mean yeah, we are the absolute minority as PVP players but don't we deserve some 2-3 line response every once in a while to solve ongoing discussions?
The best market, gets the best treatement, EU isn't their best market.
Just merge... or let EU post on NA and NA post on EU like we can do over at the Overwatch forums. I think that can solve some issues regarding the topic at hand. I seen some other people comment the same but aaa, just to put in my two cents
09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
In regards to the EU forums being ignored, I can accept that there's room for improvement but at the same time I think we have also come a long way over the past year or so.

A friend of mine recently reported some considerable harassment a week or so ago ,which clearly goes against your own rules as set out by http://eu.battle.net/en/community/conduct#harassment.

Unfortunately, nothing seems to have been done about it.

She made a ticket and a reply sent her to the mail address you mentioned. She sent a new mail there, and nothing seems to have come out of that yet either.
Specifics are not allowed, but I know that it really impacts heavily on her regarding such a statement as this - knowing that people are free to harass and sully the name of her and others. However, this isn't the first time she's received such treatment from the individual in question. It's reached the point where she actually had to ask me to post this on her behalf out of fear her harasser would find this post and use it against her.
09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
In regards to the EU forums being ignored, I can accept that there's room for improvement but at the same time I think we have also come a long way over the past year or so.

In most cases Lore and Kaivax now mirror information onto the EU forum as soon as it gets posted on the NA forums rather than there being a delay of several hours. Yes, sometimes things fall the cracks or get missed and ideally we want to avoid this.

More recently (since Legion), the EU forums have had developers contributing in the Class Development forum and Watcher (Ion) has also posted several times on the EU forums in topics that were of interest to EU players but not necessarily to NA players.

When it comes to feedback, it isn't considered in a vacuum. We compile feedback from all the game regions (both EU and NA as well as ANZ, China etc.), this includes what players are saying on social media, fan sites, other forums, YouTube videos etc. We will drill down deeper if one region is resonating with something far more than others, to understand why that is the case and what (if any) action is appropriate.

There is also a 9 hour time difference between France (where the EU Community team is based) and California (where the developers are based). When we are in the office, the majority of the staff across the ocean are asleep or going to sleep. This means we don't have immediate access to get answers or information, so we send any requests or relevant details via email. More often than not, the feedback being raised by the EU player-base isn't that dissimilar to what is being raised by the NA player-base, so such matters become topics of discussion during office hours in California, this is often why information comes out during that time rather than during EU hours. Though there have been cases where information has been posted first on EU, which has lead to similar complaints from NA players about being ignored.

The information that we receive and post, in most cases, is a direct result of feedback relaying on a global level, not because one forum is preferred more than the other.

At the end of the day, our priority is to get any information we receive out into the community, it's not really a considered a problem whether that happens to be on the NA forum first, the EU forum first, or another platform entirely if it's more appropriate for the audience in question.

09/08/2017 17:19Posted by Thete
Sorry, did you just copy/paste a response from a Dev post on US forums in response to a complaint that Devs never respond to posts on EU forums? Did someone dare you for a laugh?


Yes I did, because it was information we received during the night that we were asked to share globally. Considering part of this thread was about the RP event in Europe that got missed I felt like it was the best place to put that information as it pertained specifically to the sharding topic. That being said, Community Managers aren't Developers.


You make it very hard to like you. This is exactly why EU players feel like actual Blizzard devs do not give that much of a damn about EU customers. I know your position well, all you can do as a Community Manager is tell them. But they have to act on it, and if they wont, they wont. You could at least be honest with us and just tell us that they do not care.
TBH, even a lack to say "no we can't or are not able to fix something at the moment" is to much asked, even on twitter... Sillence= building up a lot of fustrations inhere! Only gods are sillent, guess Devs aren't gods, altho some think they are if you look at the Q&A's, so time to step away from that "throne" and pick up communication for real with the "community"
At a minimum we NEED a worldwide Blue Posts only forum that's not bound by NA or EU and where ALL the blue posts appear first. So if right now an NA Blue says something, they don't do it in the NA General forum (for example), but it goes into the Blue Posts forum section...And then if it NEEDS extra highlighting because it matters for EU General forum when the France team comes to work they copy it over.

If a Dev Blue reports a bug of some sort that super major and game breaking WE SHOULD NOT have to scramble to the US forums for which you'd need a NA licence and a created character on the NA servers to post.

If there's a major announcement the announcement goes to ALL players at the SAME time. The post goes into a global universal forum section that is "sharded" on NA and EU (and other places) at the SAME time. (I use the term sharding here so people can see what I mean).

You can limit posting to ONE post per player account to allow players to comment on the blue post without it causing a bottle neck effect.

There needs to be world.battle.net besides the us.battle.net, eu.battle.net and other whatever dot battle dot net to exist. The "world" version of battle.net is where the suggest "Blue Posts" forum is located, so it's not even clogged up by all the other forum sections. In fact make the customer service and technical support section be there too, so that if a problem is reported with the game HERE then a player in NA could search for it (and vice versa).

The above suggestion would make these forums (and their NA counterparts) the "Community Forums" as I feel they should be. The "Support Forums" would have the Blue Posts, customer service and technical support. And you could have the "Development Forums" to include the PTR forum, the forum for Macro Development, and other technical types of forums. The class and realm forums could be in a section by themselves.

But the general idea about this suggestion is to make the forums a LOT MORE about US -- the COMMUNITY -- and less about Blizzard streamlining the forums to fit their own needs.

09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
When it comes to feedback, it isn't considered in a vacuum. We compile feedback from all the game regions (both EU and NA as well as ANZ, China etc.), this includes what players are saying on social media, fan sites, other forums, YouTube videos etc. We will drill down deeper if one region is resonating with something far more than others, to understand why that is the case and what (if any) action is appropriate.


Has Blizzard ever ASKED its community in a proper way what it wants. I've been using the forums since the old version (before we got the brown background), and I recall that it got "just announced" that the forums were going to be overhauled. And again "just announced" when the new CLUNKY appearance was created for the website in more recent times (oh and I DO NOT like the new look site AT ALL).

Do a comprehensive, lengthy, official survey that players can access via their battle.net account (means no email with a link in it to send out, just need to tell players to log in to their account and click on the link inside it), and you can ask MANY questions ranging from game play to forum use and appearance to suggestions about "ten things you'd want improved with the game in 500 or less characters" to suggestions for future expansions. Break up the survey so players can do it in bits or just do the bits that matter to them.

Some of the opinions expressed in the YouTube videos are rather disparaging with the person being of the opinion that their view reflects every player out there. It doesn't and that's why Blizzard SHOULD be doing this feedback effort as a targetted exercise. To understand why certain things matter to certain players you need to give EVERY player an EQUAL voice to express those views. And not every player wants to have to get in front of a camera on YouTube to do this.

I'd say I'm part of the "ALTOHOLICS" community that exists in the game and on the forums. We haven't had much love from you this expansion. I've seen comments from other players saying that Legion isn't alt-friendly. If I tell you now that it's also NOT profession-friendly, and that this combined with the perceived lack of it being alt-friendly is one feedback I've given in game over and over, can then ask WHY the Q & A never ever seems to address THAT part of this game. We who play altoholic style excel at doing many characters, concentrating on consuming all level-related content we can find and then are presented with that mile high brick wall to stop us from progressing in a good way...A survey as suggested would all ANY player who is an altoholic (like me) to tell you what their views are of the game based on that form of play style...
09/08/2017 17:39Posted by Aerythlea
In regards to the EU forums being ignored, I can accept that there's room for improvement but at the same time I think we have also come a long way over the past year or so.


You haven't.
Can you please explain to me in detail why I am prohibited from posting on US forums using this game license?
I'm asking, because that's where ALL of the discussion is going on and right now a whole region is being sidelined out of it.
10/08/2017 00:17Posted by Devore
Can you please explain to me in detail why I am prohibited from posting on US forums using this game license?


You need an NA license for this game AND you need to have a character created on an NA server to post with. An investment of $19.99 and you'd have a month to post until you'd need a subscription. It's been like this since the first day of World of Warcraft.
As expected, the typical response has led to people needing it actually being clarified. Blizzard should not remain vague on this and typically vague so they're not bound to their own promises. We know Blizzard don't care to fulfil promises, so it doesn't matter what they do or don't do, we just want to know how they address what is CLEARLY an issue.
Nice example of EU-blizz-communication, go and check hunterpage "Aerythlea if you would read this" (need GPS?): Hunterclasshallmount bugged on 7.2.5 update (that is for months now!), many bugreports, many tweets, bumping traits and many reports in bugfix announcements -> not 1 answer, not even a "no we wont fix the bug or next client update maybe"... Nothing. But 14 pages on US server about glaivens-bug/design-> imediat fix in prox 1 week! How about that (never the less, glad for people who play DH's)! Is it because hunter-customers are minority compared to the big group of DH-customers?

So now you come inhere with a big blue letter, that EU has communication? Don't make me laugh... there is zero communication, just now and than an announcement to show you aren't dead, and even that is locked for "valued-customer"-posts in most cases, avoiding of any form of criticism! No wonder that many became "inactive" and clans are dying out on the EU servers...

Communication is little more than picking carefull questions and trying to be mister/missis popular at Q&A's to keep up appearances.

Due to non communication, many new traits are remade about the same issues each day, ending up in mass fustration/fixation towards eachother! Or do we need "5000 tumbs up" to get a look at something from your side.

I know many demands are L2P issues, but never the less, who would be more knowledgable than the creators of the game, separating real problems from those L2P-posts! Unless, the knowledge is gone due to many take overs...

At announcement of the last Q&A about Argus with "watcher Ion" (Hopefully Ion didn't forget that his roots are based in europe, modern Romanian Name, so Ion "salut", means "hi, greetings, hello" in romanian language), even that anouncement was closed for posts! Knowing that a lot was comming your way from many, after 1 post, it was locked and a forumtrait was opened, to "dump" our questions. Only questions were carefully picked from twitter, sorry Josh you mentioned it yourself during Q&A: "this is a tweet from...ehm..." and "this is a tweet from...ehm..."! The American-trumpstyle is very popular atm isn't it, aswell as the US-customer-base, EU-forum is past-tense for blizzard.

The EU-players-base, are (in case you forgot, it isn't a city but a continent-part) also paying customers and deserve an equal communication, and also an equal form of problemsolving and is not a milkcow.

Infact you should all read this link and surely all the quotes, btw Ion was an attorney at a law firm in Washington (i don't really know what that has in common with the "degree of developer", with all my respects towards Ion, but in my opinion that explains a lot):
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ion_Hazzikostas

Quote-examples:
Ion: "Random Death Touch is fun! What's the problem there in PvP?"
Brian Holinka: "I curled up into the foetal position…"

Sorry to all the gamers inhere, but i needed to let some steam of after reading "the big blue post of hypocritism"... In the mean while we struggle on true the heavy RNG, with a hope someday it 'll get better again and things get fixed or at least get a fair answer instead of the eternal sillence, until then i'll try to enjoy the gameparts i like. And sorry for the bad english, cuz my country is allready devided in 3 other languages.
The bottom line is non-US areas are treated like second class citizens, but pay just as much.

The obligation is not on us to provide an equal service. Do better, considering the HUGE wealth of the company that shouldn't be asking much.

Merge the forums.

It's also not as if threads need a fair bit of time to gather traction before they are noticed anyway, so the time difference isn't a very strong argument.
It's actually a pretty common thing that Big US Companies just ignore their EU forums. You can go look at MMOC blue Tracker and see that most of EU Is just copy and paste from US while its appreciated its not really that good and some important things are missed e.g Feral Changes for 7.3 (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20757496609) but was never mirrored to EU.

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