Classic WoW a list and discussion of Features

Classic Discussion
As mentioned at Blizzcon, when Blizzard made Starcraft Remastered, they worked closely with the community to see what could be improved about the game and what had to stay the way it was. In this post I will try to list all of the positive and negative things about classic so that the community can discuss in this thread whether they want to retain specific features, or if they should be upgraded to make the game a bit less clunky. I'm likely to miss a whole bunch of things I've personally glanced over, so I will also try to edit this post with suggestions from other players so that the thread will stay somewhat manageable. These are supposed to be discussion points, and not my definitive opinion in how these Servers should be run/not be run. I reserve the right to be mistaken about things.

PVE
    Classes:

Most classes in classic PvE have very limited viable PvE specs.

  • Warrior

  • Prot is THE spec for warriors, but fury can also be played. Arms not so much.

  • Paladin
  • Holy is the only real option for a Paladin, Prot is underwhelming and Retribution only becomes somewhat viable when fighting exclusively undeads. Should Paladins be available for the Horde?

  • Hunter
  • Marksman is the only viable PvE spec for Hunters
    Also the only class that actively has to buy ammunition to continuously deal damage.

  • Rogue
  • Combat is the only viable PvE spec for Rogues

  • Priest
  • Holy is the healing spec in classic. Shadow is largely useless, a single one might be taken for his debuff.

  • Shaman
  • Mostly restoration only. rather weak specs all around. Should Shamans be available for the Alliance?

  • Mage
  • Fire mages for most of the content. MC forced mages into Frost because of resistances.

  • Warlock
  • Outlier in that Warlock worked mostly with mixed "Hybrid" specs. Otherwise wanted for the utility of teleport and Healthstones.
    Warlock speciality: Shards. Needed for almost everything, take lots of inventory space and disappear when logged out too long. Arguably a big part of being a classic lock but is it fun? How can it be improved?

  • Druid
  • Heal only, somewhat limited by the fact that Druids can't "downrank" their spells like other healers due to the fact that you can't "stack" multiple ranks of the same HoT effect.

    All Classes
    Every non-caster had to level their weapon skill which could be a pain, should this stay and if so, should it still be bound to your intellect stat?
    Spell reagents: I touched on Soul Shards and ammunition before, but lots of other spells needed reagents to cast them, from candles and feathers to Ankhs and fish oil, should that remain? Can this be tossed out? Should it be simplified? (Rebirth has 6 different reagents for the 6 different ranks for instance) Should it be made symbolic like an enchanting rod? (You need one in your inventory but it won't be used up by the spell)

      Questing and the open World

  • Quests
  • Many old quests had very, very terrible drop rates for no discernible reason, should these be improved where necessary?

    Many quests were needlessly hidden, to the point where you sometimes found them in entirely different areas, should available quest be able to be portrayed on the map?

    Some quest objectives were quite hard to find and thus spawned "quest help" addons that later got integrated into baseline wow. Should this be added to classic questing?

    WoW later integrated an "intelligent" reward system that only gave you quest rewards relevant to your class, is this something that should make it's way into classic servers?

    Mob respawn while questing could be quite terrible, should this be changed to reduce a needless waiting time on the players side?

    Mob tagging has been a pain for many years, forcing players to try and spam instant-damage abilities as soon as something spawned so nobody could "take" the desired mob from them. A later system allowed multiple players not in the same group to "tag" the same mob, should classic receive the same treatment?

  • Transport
  • Riding originally only had one rank and you had to learn the riding skill of your desired faction for 100gold all in all for the skill and a mount. This was later changed to the multi-tiered riding profession we have now. The purchase level of riding has also changed over the years from 40, to 30 to eventually 20. Is walking for 40 levels integral to the experience, or do we think that an earlier slow mount wouldn't hurt the classic vibe?
    Do you want the classic 3 second mount cast, or the more modern 1.5 second mount cast?

  • Flight masters

  • Originally you had to click on each path before a patch made flight "paths" become available. After classic a feature was added where you could miss a node and the flight master could still take you to your destination (previous it would only take you to the furthest path you know uninterrupted, and then you had to walk), would this be desired?
    Flight length: Classic flight masters like to take the scenic route, should they hurry up a bit?

  • Gathering
  • Fairly recently, Blizzard added the ability for multiple players to gather from the same resource node as long as it happened in a reasonable time frame, would you want a similar system in classic, or do you want to stay with the "first come, first serve" approach?

  • Graveyards
  • These often are few and far between, should the long "corpse run" be kept, or would you like to see a few more graveyards for your dying convenience? (maybe near molten core?) Maybe if the skill is purchased, a mounted corpse run? Maybe even implement the "release puts you back in the instance instead of a graveyard outside somewhere"?

      Dungeons and Raids


  • Meeting Stones
  • Technically the ability to summon people via stone was added in 2.0.1, would it hurt the integrity of a classic server if summoning here was included?

  • Raid Drops
  • Raid drops were notoriously bad in classic. A 40 man raid boss could end up dropping only 2 or 3 items. Do you want this to be boosted to a more reasonable amount? On top of that, bosses could still drop Paladin/Shaman items regardless of your faction making it a wasted drop.
    Modern WoW also added additional ways to gain loot such as bonus rolls.

  • Itemization
  • Some items had weird stats, with strength and intelligence or other attributes that were really not needed, should this be "improved" or stay?

  • Resistances
  • Some raid bosses had "block" encounters that forced your raid to farm specific resistance gear to survive it, is this something you want to relieve, or can this be fine-tuned to make specific resistance gear less needed?

  • Sets
  • as listed in the classes section, most classes had one / one and a half viable specs and many sets tended to reflect that, should this be addressed, or should the sets be kept in their "imperfect" form?

    In the same nature, modern items switch with your spec, which is extremely convenient. Would it be bad if a classic item did the same, as long as it stayed on the same power-level?

  • Trash Mobs
  • Trash respawned every 2 hours, meaning your average progression raid had to clear it at least twice each raid day. This could be changed to the modern "trash resets on soft reset" approach.

  • "Raid" Dungeons
  • Stratholme, UBRS, and Scholomance were originally "Raid" dungeons that later got capped to 10 and then to 5 players. Should these be capped and balanced for 5 players right away? Or remain open for larger groups?

  • Boss Resistances
  • Certain bosses where more resistant to certain spell-elements, lots of Molten Core for instance was fire resistance forcing mages to play Frost for that raid. Is that something you want back or can that be scaled down to keep PvE specs more in line?

  • Raid release
  • As we all know on a "normal" server you don't get everything at the same time, so should these servers start out with Molten Core and Onyxia only and then wait a certain amount before opening the next raid? Or should everything be there from day 1?

      PvP

    admittedly I don't have the biggest experience here despite playing Shadow Priest so suggestions are very welcome here

  • PvP Gear
  • "Best in Slot" PvP gear in classic was usually not "everything you could get from the PvP Vendor" but a mix of PvP Vendor and PvE items, (Just ask High Warlord Uro) should this remain? Or should a pure PvP player be able to get his items without having to Raid?

  • Diminishing returns
  • This was a big part of PvP balance and a pain for many players, there even is a somewhat infamous Rogue video including killing players with low level daggers just because a rogue was often able to perma CC a given target if no one came to help. To which state should DR effects be set? Should "Perma stun" be achievable again or shouldn't it?

  • Battlegrounds
  • Alterac Valley and Warsong got added in 1.5, and Arathi in 1.7, I think it is safe to assume that most players want these to be available baseline with classic servers.
    One of the biggest reason for World PvP in classic was that it could take a long long time to get into these Battlegrounds so people went to go kill what they could find, should this be "fixed"?
    Alterac itself was notorious for it's very long playtimes with legends talking of Day long matches that just wouldn't end. Do you want that back, or do you want to know that if you queue for a BG you can end it in the same session?
    Should you still be able to fish in the middle of AV? (trust me, this made some people very angry)
      Graphics

  • Models
  • There is an argument to be maid to use the slighty improved models for characters and models we have, maybe on an individual toggle for those that want it (like F5 in Starcraft Remastered)

  • View Distance/rendering distance
  • this could also be a low impact-optional thing, many old games look quite a lot better on modern systems anyway. (see Half Life 2 now vs release)

      User Interface / general Convenience


  • Social Features
  • Obviously classic wow didn't have the same level of battle.net integration and other such systems. like:

  • cross realm group invites
  • Obviously we don't even know if there will be multiple servers, but if so, should they be able to interact to shorten waiting times, or should it be a shut off community like it used to be?

  • Multi Spec
  • A very convenient feature, but not at all a classic one. Should it be in classic? Should it have limitations? Or do you want the "Walk all the way back to your class trainer and completely reset everything every time you want to change something" experience of classic back?

  • Dungeon / Battleground queue tool
  • This is a difficult one, is sitting in a city posting a LFG macro, desired? Or do you just want to play the dungeon as fast as possible? Should the tool be limited so that it puts a group together for you, but you have to walk there yourself?

    As for battleground queues, should you be required to manually walk to the NPCs and queue? Or should it be doable from the Interface?

  • Custom Group Finder
  • A feature I could see being a tremendous help in Classic wow, specially if people are against adding the before mentioned Dungeon finder

  • Dungeon Journal
  • Another neat little addition that would basically save us from downloading atlasloot again.

  • Pet/Mount tab in the Interface
  • This will probably split a lot of the players: Should Mounts and Pets be items again that take up your inventory space or do you like the convenience of having them out of your bags? Specially considering 18 slot bags will be the biggest available bags again.

  • Achievements
  • Now classic certainly didn't have any achievements originally, but would you want your own, classic related achievements?

  • Calendar
  • Again a feature added long after Classic, but one that I don't think would "ruin" the experience, being able to set up invites and regular PuGs with this feature.

      The nitty gritty, the bad and the ugly

    Classic WoW had a ton and bugs and exploits. (An infamous one for instance being the C'thun oozling exploit, where summoning an Oozling 32 times with a macro would spam out any existing debuff enabling you to ignore certain debuff based boss mechanics) and unlike with Star Craft I'm sure, most WoW players wouldn't mind seeing those fixed right from the start. (although.. I'm almost certain some might like to see the return of throwing snowballs at players using the flight master)
    But there remains a lot of interactivity that has been changed, like gameplay automation macros, that enabled certain classes to play their optimal max DPS gameplay rotation by spamming a single button. Will this make a comeback, or will these remain restricted?
    Similar problems with classic WoW's API, quite a few things were different back then, and I'm not sure how this would need to be handled. Old WoW with modern API and addon support?
    And most importantly, will thottbot come back?

      Closing thoughts

  • Have I forgotten anything? Is there a classic Feature/Non-Feature that is really important/annoyed you when you played? Post it in this thread, and I'll add it to the list as soon as I can.
  • It's amazing how many people before wanted vanilla just how it was and then when classic gets announced, there's almost an equal number of threads being made wanting or suggesting improvements and QoL changes so it isn't like how it was.

    Personally I say no to everything you suggested. I'd like people to experience Vanilla how it was and tell me how amazing it still is after experiencing all the downsides. Sure they may enjoy it but might aswell keep it the same instead of 'fixing' it :p
    Well it's one of the reasons I made a list of how it was and how it is now, so a healthy discussion can evolve to bring something out that feels like classic but is a bit more playable in 2018 (hopefully)
    And as mentioned before there isn't just "one" classic that can be taken and used, as it was constantly evolving just like the game is today.
    05/11/2017 17:54Posted by Blutistkraft
    And as mentioned before there isn't just "one" classic that can be taken and used, as it was constantly evolving just like the game is today.

    To me, classic was ruined the moment they introduced cross-realm so if I was to ever go and play it I'd prefer it to be in the state it was before that happened.

    Not sure if Naxx was released before or after that point though since I only raided MC, ZG and AQ20.

    But still, a lot of the stuff you suggested just shouldn't happen at all imo, especially things like the dungeon finder (community should be encouraged, as it was), achievements, multi spec and whatever else just takes away the feeling of it.
    You want to have a discussion?

    Oh, silly, you can't have those, you're either for the pure, unaltered classic experience or you're a filthy heretic.
    Why don't you just play the new WoW, OP? It seems to have exactly what you want.
    05/11/2017 17:54Posted by Blutistkraft
    Well it's one of the reasons I made a list of how it was and how it is now, so a healthy discussion can evolve to bring something out that feels like classic but is a bit more playable in 2018 (hopefully)
    And as mentioned before there isn't just "one" classic that can be taken and used, as it was constantly evolving just like the game is today.


    There are already a dozen 'healthy' discussions going on, this is just more spam and reported as such,
    Huge NO to any changes to Classic gameplay! Personally, I don't care if they give an option! for HD models (but keep the old ones as well for whoever wishes to play with them) and other graphics improvements, and I think we should have battle.net chat options (no cross realm invites, just the chat) and proper LUA support, but that's about it. But big NO for everything else.
    - NO class changes;
    - NO removal of reagents;
    - NO bigger stacks of materials or arrows;
    - NO changes to drop rates;
    - NO changes to flight paths;
    - NO changes to graveyards, gathering nodes, etc. etc. etc.
    I want Classic, not Legion with a different storyline.
    No LFD, no LFR and no cross realm nonsense and it will be great.
    05/11/2017 17:57Posted by Akurin

    To me, classic was ruined the moment they introduced cross-realm

    Btw what cross-realm are we talking about? A lot of ppl already mentioned this, but the only xrealm thing I remember from classic was the bg one. Is that the problem or did i miss something?
    And it has started the different things different people want out of this.
    Do you think there'll be a line to walk for the team, then? Somewhere between creating that authentic experience that people have asked for, while also figuring out what doesn't make sense anymore? For example, with the Intellect buff, is it important to you that players do need to drink after casting it?

    J. Allen Brack: Yes. That's part of the level 60 experience. Our goal is to recreate that classic 1-60 gameplay. Some things changed as time went on, with different patches. How does that get manifested? That's one of the outstanding questions. But yeah, the goal is to recreate that exact experience, for better or for worse.

    Source Icy veins reporting of interview with J Allen Brack
    STOP. HONESTLY JUST STOP.

    STOP SUGGESTING THESE THINGS.

    WE DID NOT PETITION, LINK, ADVERTISE AND SHARE TO HAVE IT RUINED.

    None of those who spent days/weeks/months fighting for Classic wow wants it to be ruined by these so called "QoL" changes. STOP SUGGESTING THEM.

    These "tiny" things had a massive impact that day after day ruined what was once the greatest game to have ever existed. What you may think is small actually has a massive impact on how people play the game, and if you start artifically toying with greatness to please every little normie or casual tween then what you end up with is a massive playerbase of veterans who are furious and enraged.
    To be fair, they used to say that they wouldn't make classic realms and here we are.

    It's not a far stretch to assume that if a sizeable portion of their community, the one that actually pays for this instead of playing on pirate servers, asks for QoL changes before release, they could implement them.
    No changes to vanilla pls... Even if they make changes i wont join them simple as that . One player less.
    05/11/2017 18:21Posted by Zamiel
    To be fair, they used to say that they wouldn't make classic realms and here we are.

    It's not a far stretch to assume that if a sizeable portion of their community, the one that actually pays for this instead of playing on pirate servers, asks for QoL changes before release, they could implement them.
    It must be, authentic means all the bugs aswell... Start with 1.12 (of course not the raids and events released etc.) and all bug and glitch fixes that has ever been done pre-Cata already applied. Flight points were added because of complaints so this time been directly avaible makes sense. QoL changes made during vanilla just apply it from the start.
    No changes should be made to the classic server.

    Classic something that is Classic when you tweak it then it is no longer classic.
    So it needs to be authentic.

    No changes to gear, classes balance or any of the sort.

    Battlegrounds should have the ability to last for days as they did, if they even add them at all.

    PvP should be as it was with no changes or tweaks.

    Pve speccs should also be as they where.

    There is no need for further feedback or requests in regards to what to do with classic wow, just make it classic as it was and be done.

    If not you might as well be honest and call it what it will be if you change it, an abomination inspired by the mindnumbing garbage of the modern styled mmo's. Which would be what we want to escape and why we want an authentic classic server to play on. Its not for a short visit, its to play and enjoy. Something that we dont do in current wow.

    And there is one feature classic wow needs more then anything else, its the feature of immunity. The ability to repel any change that anyone would dare suggest and implement, so that it can remain original and true to what it was and ought to be. And for all the QoL suggestions to tumble off the desk and into a trashcan.
    No no no no no no.
    No. People cried for Blizzard to remake Vanilla, because Vanilla was amazing and great and the best thing since sliced bread. Now you got it. I am happy for you, I truly am.
    But you wanted Vanilla? Then you should get Vanilla. With all bugs, with all imballance, with specs that simply are not viable, with all the stupid mechanics which force you to be a little b*tch for whole raid (making food for 40 people, blessing each player every 5 minutes, gathering Soul Shards before the raid starts to teleport most of your group to the entrance) and so on.

    Salt aside, Vanilla is not an ordinary game. It is not like Legion or Battle for Azeroth, which are released and then people have right to ask for changes to improve them. Vanilla is about allowing people to relive the game that changed the world over a decade ago. You can´t do that if the game mechanics are changed (not talking about the looks, I think it would be great if we were able to switch between original look and updated graphics, including WoD models and high-res textures).
    for the love of mace stun please dont change anything leave the old system alone
    05/11/2017 18:30Posted by Pvphero
    for the love of mace stun


    I smiled and died a bit inside at the same time. :)

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