Change Titanforging in BfA

General
Prev 1 16 17 18
19/11/2017 16:33Posted by Amalei
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I don't think they've told anyone they are right or wrong. They have simply stated that they are happy with the way it works.

People like and dislike it for different reasons. Not everyone cares about this argument about who does or does not deserve the loot.

I find it destroys my sense of progression and I don't like the huge differences in loot rewards. Tier was the hardest because the tokens were an unknown quantity when trying to award them. That issue is going to go in BfA because they are removing sets.

I'm sad that I don't get to progress through the difficulties and get better gear. Getting new bosses down and getting upgrades was a big part of progress. Now that's gone. It's more of a roulette wheel and it feels very disappointing when things don't proc. So I can't say I find RNG in this sense exciting.

However I can totally appreciate that some like this system, I'm just not one of them and it's nothing to do with how much or how little someone plays the game.


This guy gets it. For over a decade the one thing that remained unchanged was that progression. Knowing where to go if I wanted an upgrade, knowing what content was next for me to progress, that once I had done something on its hardest difficulty, got all the reps etc that I was done and should move on to whatever was introduced in the next patch. Yes, it was always luck whether I got the right gear, but if it didn't drop, that was OK, I had done my best, such is life, it is after all just a game. I knew that if my gear wasn't as great as Bob's it was likely because I chose to spend my time leveling professions or just doing the odd heroic while Bob was doing harder content, content that I chose not to participate in. I never resented or envied people like Bob, go Bob. In the same way, I get why some people like the system and I don't envy or resent people who get epic titanforge, go them, it does not affect me one bit what they get.

What this system does for me personally tho (and many of the people that I know in game, ranging from super casual to mythic raiders, they're not all that different) is remove that clear progression path that existed for so long, one went from leveling to dungeons to raids and then one moved on to the next tier when one was done. If I needed an upgrade for a specific slot, I researched a little, found the one or 2 items that worked and did whatever content was required. I didn't go back to completing leveling quests after I had leveled, I didn't do dailies after I had the rep and thus the rewards from it, I didn't go back a tier to a storyline I had completed because that's where I "might" find an upgrade. Doing harder/new content felt rewarding because I didn't outgear it through luck, getting a drop from an heroic raid boss I had never killed before felt good, not sad because I'd already got it (or something better) from killing it on normal or in a time walking chest (I got my 900 whispers from one before I'd even cleared normal and used the same trinket well into heroic tos). I also never required an add on to tell me if something was an upgrade, it was simple, and I miss that simplicity.

Anyway, I've made my point and am now just babbling. I get that they are keeping it, I just hope that the proc rate is sufficiently lowered so it's what it was meant to be, a small chance at getting something awesome rather than something one feels bad not getting. If it continues to feel the way it does now then I guess warcraft just isn't the game for me anymore, and that's really sad as someone who has spent so many years playing the same game.


You have every right to feel that way. I might feel the same even if I was still doing that old fashioned progression, but I'm not. Haven't done that since wotlk and I can't say I missed it one single second. So for people who don't raid TF is cool and fun.

However, I don't think you have anything to worry about in BfA. For one, like you mentioned, they are lowering the TF proc, but there's more changes coming that will make it less of a problem for people with your mindset.
For example your azerite gear (the 3 items that will be the most powerful and have special traits unlocked via the Heart of Azeroth) won't be able to titanforge.
Also there won't be any more random legendaries.

Progression will definitly be more predictable again.
19/11/2017 16:18Posted by Niodd
19/11/2017 16:16Posted by Postura
...

if i make 1 million euro's for lifting 1 crate doesn't mean i earned it its given to me.
i know you a bit on the dense side and like those hand outs but you didn't 'earn' it.

but like most people assumed here you are just trolling to go in circles.


Please just push that ignore button, if you continue to argue with him some mod will really lock this thread.
`

ok ok i just got bored and that lfr kiddo thought he deserved and earned everything i will ignore him from now on.
19/11/2017 17:16Posted by Postura
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Please just push that ignore button, if you continue to argue with him some mod will really lock this thread.
`

ok ok i just got bored and that lfr kiddo thought he deserved and earned everything i will ignore him from now on.


Hahahahahahahahhahahahah. Sure buddy.

I earned every item I have. And I deserve them too.
Because doing WQs, doing dungeons, doing raids, doing pvp it's all part of playing the game. And in WoW playing the game gives you rewards. I've earned every single reward I have...

Ok ok, 1 that I didn't. Just 1. Because I spoke to a ingame mod a while ago and after he helped me out with a problem I was having, he noticed; hey I see you've been with us for a long time. Would you like a free 'Brightpaw' pet?
And I said: ehm.. yeah sure. Awesome.

The morale of the story? Well, gifts are awesome, for one.
The other; I EARNED EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF ARMOR I HAVE.

Oh and I'm better than you. Much much better. Because I raided in vanilla, back when raiding meant something. Back when raiding was hardcore!
I went through MC, BWL, AQ20, AQ40, ZG, Naxx... yeah. I'm better than a two-bit modern raider who has trouble getting through a little heroic raid.

<3

TF is awesome btw.

Spoiler: The above is what a troll reply would look like. Even though not a single word in the above post was a lie.

Ps: Calling me kiddo. Really? I've played since release... That was 13 years ago! How old do you think I was back then? XD Think before you write something man. Jeez.
...`

ok ok i just got bored and that lfr kiddo thought he deserved and earned everything i will ignore him from now on.


Hahahahahahahahhahahahah. Sure buddy.

I earned every item I have. And I deserve them too.
Because doing WQs, doing dungeons, doing raids, doing pvp it's all part of playing the game. And in WoW playing the game gives you rewards. I've earned every single reward I have...

Ok ok, 1 that I didn't. Just 1. Because I spoke to a ingame mod a while ago and after he helped me out with a problem I was having, he noticed; hey I see you've been with us for a long time. Would you like a free 'Brightpaw' pet?
And I said: ehm.. yeah sure. Awesome.

The morale of the story? Well, gifts are awesome, for one.
The other; I EARNED EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF ARMOR I HAVE.

Oh and I'm better than you. Much much better. Because I raided in vanilla, back when raiding meant something. Back when raiding was hardcore!
I went through MC, BWL, AQ20, AQ40, ZG, Naxx... yeah. I'm better than a two-bit modern raider who has trouble getting through a little heroic raid.

<3

TF is awesome btw.

Spoiler: The above is what a troll reply would look like. Even though not a single word in the above post was a lie.

Ps: Calling me kiddo. Really? I've played since release... That was 13 years ago! How old do you think I was back then? XD Think before you write something man. Jeez.


https://imgur.com/gallery/VKDXi
18/11/2017 14:42Posted by Niodd

Edit: Even in-game i saw a lot of players who were angry about it and i really can't blame them. For example, ToS release, no Argus gear yet, on the second day 920+ ilvl was the requirement for Heroic and even for Normal ToS in some case simply because thats how much titanforge ruins the progression. I would be shocked if someone could explain to me how is it not stupid that the requirement for a raid is 5-20 ilvl higher than the ilvl of the gear that drops from it. And this was the case since WoD when titanforge was still warforge but Mythic dungeons sometimes dropped mythic hfc ilvl gear, the dungeons dropped 685 ilvl gear and at the end of the expansion there was no group that asked for lower ilvl than 710-715

In the end they pretty much just don't care as long as they like something.


That type of problems have been an issue since Wrath of the Lich King when some "smart" person decided to create an addon called GearScore. Before that it was hardly an issue. After that it was all about average number of your ilvl. So it has nothing to do with TF/WF. Since WotLK you had to be severly overgeared for the stuff you wanted to join raidwise.
19/11/2017 22:02Posted by Runedag
18/11/2017 14:42Posted by Niodd

Edit: Even in-game i saw a lot of players who were angry about it and i really can't blame them. For example, ToS release, no Argus gear yet, on the second day 920+ ilvl was the requirement for Heroic and even for Normal ToS in some case simply because thats how much titanforge ruins the progression. I would be shocked if someone could explain to me how is it not stupid that the requirement for a raid is 5-20 ilvl higher than the ilvl of the gear that drops from it. And this was the case since WoD when titanforge was still warforge but Mythic dungeons sometimes dropped mythic hfc ilvl gear, the dungeons dropped 685 ilvl gear and at the end of the expansion there was no group that asked for lower ilvl than 710-715

In the end they pretty much just don't care as long as they like something.


That type of problems have been an issue since Wrath of the Lich King when some "smart" person decided to create an addon called GearScore. Before that it was hardly an issue. After that it was all about average number of your ilvl. So it has nothing to do with TF/WF. Since WotLK you had to be severly overgeared for the stuff you wanted to join raidwise.


Yes, the problem is similar but still different.

Gearscore in WotlK was today's ilvl. Judging based on what people cleared and what gear they already have is completely fine if someone want fast run. The problem is that nowadays it just doesn't mean anything.

Lets say again, ToS release, first day, 2 people get into the same normal raid group, both of them is 900 ilvl, one of them is lucky, the other isn't. The lucky one will have 910-915 ilvl at the end of the run because every piece he got is titanfored even though he died on every fight, the other only got base ilvl 900 gear so he stays at 900 ilvl.

After that both of them trying to get into a heroic raid, last spot available, of course the leader will invite the bad player because he don't know that he is bad, but he has the higher ilvl simply because of luck.

I hated gearscore together with a lot of people but compared to what we have now it seems like the most logical thing ever. It actually showed how much effort someone put into their character.

And yes, people asked for higher ilvl than what was needed since gearscore was introduced, but back then people had to do something 4-5 times or even more to ask for similarly high gearscore, and during that time a lot more people had the chance to it with them while they still didn't had high gearscore. Now people do it 1-2 times, they are full of titanforged items and they can ask for the same ilvl, which gives advantage to lucky players while the unlucky players will have to do it again and again until they get lucky.

Titanforge simply ruins everything that is connected to some kind of progression.
You could PuG the endgame raids back then also so GS did not say anything at all. We had super bad high GS players back then just as we have bad high ilvl players now.
13/11/2017 14:27Posted by Synéa
13/11/2017 14:25Posted by Ralphè
How is raid progression "ruined" exactly?
If you do mythic you still get the best equipment with the best chance for better ilvl.


Raid progression is ruined because pure luck determines some players will far outgear others.
Moreover raids start being balanced not around the base tier but by the average ilevel from titanforging.

This leads to an unfun and unbalanced experience.
Titanforging absolutely needs a hard cap, or they could just bring back item upgrading which is progression based on time invested and not random chance.


other players' ilvl ruins your fun?
Where is he talking about others?
Your own TF items are also calculated in the average ilvl with TF.
Unfortunately this thread has derailed, so we’re locking it at this point. Please continue any constructive discussions in a new thread if necessary.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum