Change Titanforging in BfA

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13/11/2017 19:27Posted by Tahra
Just understand this; for years and years WoW has been balanced around the needs of a very tiny percentage of the game's total playerbase. And in more recent years this has started to change and I applaud that.
Why should the majority suffer because of the needs of a few. You know the old saying 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few'? It fits here perfectly.

And yet the subs started dropping like a rock the moment this changed. The game has never fared worse than after it started revolving around the entitled people who were too lazy to do content that corresponded the gear they wanted. It started with tier put to vendor in WotLK, expanded with LFR in Cata, bloated further with gear upgrades and timeless isle in MoP, garrison missions in WoD and now insane titanforging in Legion that makes every tier of content exactly the same, with no need to progress to improve your character.

The 'I am entitled to everything for nothing' mentality is what is bleeding subs from this game and the underlying cause for gamebreaking systems like this. Back in the day, people would accept that those who put in effort and time get the best loot, and you either work the same to get that loot, or you simply don't get it. Having gear meant you put time and effort into the game. Now, it does not mean anything at all, chopping away a major part of the game's endgame character progress curve.
13/11/2017 19:14Posted by Kooki
I wouldn't make any extra effort to farm titanforge items if it was so low. Maybe 20 ilvl for titanforge and 10 for warforge, that seems a bit more reasonable.
When it's +15 max (a difficulty or tier) it will be a bonus again, with +20 you still go over the base IL of next tier/difficulty. It should be a bonus, like how old thunder- and warforged felt in MoP and WoD. Back then it was single +6 and I never felt forced to redo lower difficulties for titanforging. Nice if it dropped but oke if I just had the base version.
13/11/2017 14:37Posted by Moeraé
This is exactly what I was trying to say with my earlier post. Maybe it's your thoughts that I stole, Am! I love that you chose to show head piece now but I miss seeing your cute haircut <3

You're still a total bae tho.


Hah, I see a lot of people say it

Aw, I actually dide hide it, but Armory is slow. Naw, you too <3
Blizz stated that titanforging isn't going away.
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/34131-bays-blizzcon-dev-interview-with-alex-afrasiabi-ion-hazzikostas/
13/11/2017 20:46Posted by Deanna
13/11/2017 19:14Posted by Kooki
I wouldn't make any extra effort to farm titanforge items if it was so low.

That is exactly the point.


agreed titanforging can be done well like in mop but make it a max of 10 the stat increase stays the same but people who are doing lower content will always receive the lower gear.
13/11/2017 21:04Posted by Ellieth
Blizz stated that titanforging isn't going away.
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/34131-bays-blizzcon-dev-interview-with-alex-afrasiabi-ion-hazzikostas/


we don't want it go away we want i capped and redone why did you think i made this thread mabye and just mabye they will notice.
13/11/2017 21:11Posted by Postura
13/11/2017 21:04Posted by Ellieth
Blizz stated that titanforging isn't going away.
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/34131-bays-blizzcon-dev-interview-with-alex-afrasiabi-ion-hazzikostas/


we don't want it go away we want i capped and redone why did you think i made this thread mabye and just mabye they will notice.


Well, titanforging is fine IMO. It's like a nice, unexpected present.
Why should the majority suffer because of the needs of a few. You know the old saying 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few'?

Usually when one uses that that implies that "the few" are losing something yet in this case, they arent losing anything which makes it sadder.

They are annoyed others get lucky every once and a while and get somethin good, and that behavior says a lot about them.
13/11/2017 21:11Posted by Postura
13/11/2017 21:04Posted by Ellieth
Blizz stated that titanforging isn't going away.
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/34131-bays-blizzcon-dev-interview-with-alex-afrasiabi-ion-hazzikostas/


we don't want it go away we want i capped and redone why did you think i made this thread mabye and just mabye they will notice.


Do you honestly think all mythic raiders think like you ? no they dont and do you think Blizzard will take notice of you a person who admits he thinks he has the right to tell what others what they deserve just because of the lvl he raids at?

Just because you are spamming you're views in multi threads and accuseing others or trolling when they dont share your view doesnt mean they will listen .

I cant take you serious when you accused me of likeing "freebee's" Just because i said i dont want anyone to lose anything.

I raid at a decent standard i do keys at a high lvl and i dont care what anyone gets because guess what IT DOESNT RUIN MY FUN OR PROGRESS.

It shows alot about the players who say .
I wount ride higher then heroic because i get same gear thats the kind of player you dont want ina mythic team because they play for them and not a team player it sickens me people are so shallow and have ego's over pixels.

And the BS going on saying it got easy to gear up in wotlk heres a clue

Classic

You could buy x 2 tier pieces from AH
You could get PVP epics
You could get World BOE's epics
You could get crafted epics
The game has always been to gear up .

Posts the way you speak to your fellow player is disgusting you treat them so bad .You have no right to tell others what to do .If you want to be the better person dont bite at there insults because atm you are no better then anyone acting like you are calling people idiots for not shareing your view.

If all you care about is loot and yourself you are in the wrong game .
13/11/2017 20:43Posted by Postura

you just like those free hand outs otherwise you would have really bad gear. i raid heroic you and i have almost the same itemlevel while you haven't even touched normal yeah really balanced.

i knew 75+ was a joke and i was making fun of it.


No, I don't. And I haven't gotten any 'free hand outs' either. I've played content. You don't just log in and get stuff. That's not how this game works, so stop saying nonsense.

The fact that you don't deem the content I do 'worthy' of rewards of a certain quality, means NOTHING to me. Your opinion does not matter. Only blizzard's opinion does and guess what? ... They disagree with you!

What does the fact that we have a similar ilvl matter? It doesn't impact you in any way except that your frail little ego has been bruised?! Well, sorry mate, that's YOUR problem, stop blaming a gaming system. Get help. Truly.
The same old arguements. Tahra must have joined during legion then, only way I can see somebody defending this to such end and/or is a former DIII player. Let's go again, if you titanforge above next tier, difficulty or next type content it causes the following the things:

-Difficulty balancing, since you have to take into account no-lifers and lucky players you can't balance for example mythic ToS around 915-930 it had to be belanced 930-945. Otherwise it would become a joke
-No/Less rewards, when you get a bis 955 or even just 930 from titanforging why would do HC or normal? You already have better
-Inflated IL requirement at pugging, they have to account for bad players now in higher or equal IL gear. You used to be able to tell if someone did HC, mythic or high level PvP by looking at the IL.

The effort doesn't mean pushing yourself but time played, I'm so damn tired of that. "I did x WQ or LFR so I deserve the same or even better gear because I'm dedicated! You only do a weekly HC run and some mog activities!". Yet here I'm hoping for a mythic team next tier and push even further. I'm in HC, so why is my stuff mostly 915-920 (aside from 2 pieces and 2 M+ caches) where so many below me are wearing higher? Seemed like a waste of time then, why did I push HC? I could have done better by doing both a weekly normal and LFR run every week and double my chances for titanforging.

We want titanforging to be a big bonus, not a requirement to farm. Wheter it's to switch to alts, so Blizzard doesn't have to tune raid ridiculously high and/or to feel done on a char. +15 is still big bonus and as a bonus the person doing a few +15s (M+) a week will get better gear than someone who farm +5 endlessy for titanforging. Effort in this game meant pushing yourself, getting to progressivly harder bosses, instances or difficulties not no-life farm easier things (depends on the person) and get equal or better gear.

/rant on

If you guys like this model so much I have a tip, play DIII it's a reason alongside the seasons and endless torment and greater rift difficulties instead of no new content I eventualy had to quit. Only thing that chanages there if they didn't change it is the percentage of legendary loot, XP and gold per diifculty.

I didn't started to play WoW to see it evolve into Word of Diablocraft, I wanted an actual MMORPG. Yet you guys always push for more and more action RPGs loot games systems to be put in a MMORPG... The MMO part is largely gone, now people are advocating to water down the RPG part. Every expac it goes a step further, WoD killed professions and world content (garrison gold farming...) and Legion in turn ruined the stability of loot rewards and simplified specs because not everybody knew all tricks or spells.

/rant off

Edit: I hope BfA does justice with titanforging being adjusted, no more garrison elements, professions unnerfed (more slots to enchant, more stuff to craft, raid recipes etc.) and all specs being brough back to their old glory where you could tell the difference between a long time player, a skilled one and a newbie when viewing different people.
13/11/2017 23:06Posted by Destruct
The same old arguements. Tahra must have joined during legion then, only way I can see somebody defending this to such end and/or is a former DIII player. Let's go again, if you titanforge above next tier, difficulty or next type content it causes the following the things:

-Difficulty balancing, since you have to take into account no-lifers and lucky players you can't balance for example mythic ToS around 915-930 it had to be belanced 930-945. Otherwise it would become a joke
-No/Less rewards, when you get a bis 955 or even just 930 from titanforging why would do HC or normal? You already have better
-Inflated IL requirement at pugging, they have to account for bad players now in higher or equal IL gear. You used to be able to tell if someone did HC, mythic or high level PvP by looking at the IL.

The effort doesn't mean pushing yourself but time played, I'm so damn tired of that. "I did x WQ or LFR so I deserve the same or even better gear because I'm dedicated! You only do a weekly HC run and some mog activities!". Yet here I'm hoping for a mythic team next tier and push even further. I'm in HC, so why is my stuff mostly 915-920 (aside from 2 pieces and 2 M+ caches) where so many below me are wearing higher? Seemed like a waste of time then, why did I push HC? I could have done better by doing both a weekly normal and LFR run every week and double my chances for titanforging.

We want titanforging to be a big bonus, not a requirement to farm. Wheter it's to switch to alts, so Blizzard doesn't have to tune raid ridiculously high and/or to feel done on a char. +15 is still big bonus and as a bonus the person doing a few +15s (M+) a week will get better gear than someone who farm +5 endlessy for titanforging. Effort in this game meant pushing yourself, getting to progressivly harder bosses, instances or difficulties not no-life farm easier things (depends on the person) and get equal or better gear.

/rant on

If you guys like this model so much I have a tip, play DIII it's a reason alongside the seasons and endless torment and greater rift difficulties instead of no new content I eventualy had to quit. Only thing that chanages there if they didn't change it is the percentage of legendary loot, XP and gold per diifculty.

I didn't started to play WoW to see it evolve into Word of Diablocraft, I wanted an actual MMORPG. Yet you guys always push for more and more action RPGs loot games systems to be put in a MMORPG... The MMO part is largely gone, now people are advocating to water down the RPG part. Every expac it goes a step further, WoD killed professions and world content (garrison gold farming...) and Legion in turn ruined the stability of loot rewards and simplified specs because not everybody knew all tricks or spells.

/rant off


You raid for gear your in herioc lvl.
I raid with and for my guild and friends and for progress and fun and im in mythic.
You raid for wrong reasons if its all about your gear and self worth .
Ive raided since class dont dismiss my views just because you dont agree and think im some D3 player.
Maybe its you in the wrong game if all you desire is loot.
If your rage/rants cant handle seeing others get better gear.
At the end of the day its just a game and you and Post are looking down on people over pixels an online item that isnt going to make or break you irl.

Would you honestly pref to go back to cata when you got BIS in every slot then have nothing to do ?
Myself i like this system as it reminds me of my mount farming . That moment you think is it going to drop and boom a 950+ with a socket happens or not . To me it rly doesnt bother me.
Im not the kind of person to get high and mighty over a GAME i think i rather off myself irl tbh then to be a narcistic ego edgelord over pixels.
13/11/2017 23:06Posted by Destruct
The same old arguements. Tahra must have joined during legion then, only way I can see somebody defending this to such end and/or is a former DIII player.


Nope. Started at launch (was in the beta too). Had a bit of break though at the end of WotLK, but returned near the end of WoD.

Let's go again, if you titanforge above next tier, difficulty or next type content it causes the following the things:

-Difficulty balancing, since you ahve to take into account no-lifers and lucky players you can abalnce for example mythic ToS around 915-930 it had to eb belanced 930-945. Otherwise it would become a joke


So, the solution has already been presented. Lower the TF max ilvl (like I said earlier, I think 30-ish should do just fine). That coupled with the fact that we won't have any legendaries (because funny enough you TF haters never mention those when you mention the balancing issues, and they ARE a big part of the problem - 2 items with higher than mythic gear numbers and often spec altering effects).


-No/Less rewards, when you get a bis 955 or even just 930 from titanforgign why would do HC or normal? You already have better


That would be for maybe 1 slot. If you get multiple 955 procs you are the luckiest person in the world and should definitely be playing the lottery. If 1 slot keeps you from playing a whole difficulty, maybe, just maybe, you don't really want to be there in the first place.


-Inflated IL at pugging, they have to account for bad players now in higher or equal IL gear.


No. Just no. This is caused by the widespread human trait 'wanting it the easiest way possible'. Don't you blame TF for that. It wouldn't matter one bit, people would still be asking for ilvls that are way too high for the content. It has ALWAYS been that way since ilvl became a thing.


The effort doesn't mean pushing yourself but time played, I'm so damn tired of that. "I did x WQ or LFR so I deserve the same or even better gear because I'm dedicated! You only do a weekly HC run and some mog activities!". Yet here I'm hoping for a mythic team next tier and push even further. in HC, so why is my stuff mostly 915-920 (aside from 2 pieces and 2 M+ caches) where so many below me are wearing higher? Seemed like a waste of time then, why did I push HC? I could have done better by doing a weekly normal and LFR run.


Effort means different things to different people. You are not the one who gets to make up the generally accepted one, sorry.
And why is it a waste of time? Did you enjoy the experience? You are playing this game for fun, remember? Not because you 'have to'. Not because you 'need those pixels'. Enjoy the things you do in the game. That's the bottomline. If your fun is being ruined because someone else is getting the same pixels for something you deem 'not worthy' then you need to sort your priorities (and/or your basic humanity).

Lastly, well, maybe you 'could have done better', but that's just the thing.... It's not a given. There's a chance (a very very very very very small chance in the case of insanely rare procs like 955) that you could have done better. Doing the higher content your chances of getting high ilvl gear are far higher (like you people think it should be).

13/11/2017 23:06Posted by Destruct

We want titanforging to be a big bonus, not a requirement to farm.


It is. You make it into something to farm. That's on YOU. Not the system.


Effort in this game meant pushing yourself, getting to progressivly harder bosses, instances or difficulties not no-life farm easier things (depends on the person) and get equal or better gear than someone who is higher up in the chain.


1) No it didn't. That's what YOU thought it meant. And that's fine, but that's not what effort means to everyone.
2) Effort has nothing to do with someone else. Why does it matter to you how much effort someone else did for a reward compared to you? It shouldn't.
Did you have fun? Do you like your reward? Are you proud of your accomplishment? Those are the things you should be worried about. Not what someone else is getting for whatever they are doing.

13/11/2017 23:06Posted by Destruct

If you guys like this model so much I have a tip, play DIII it's a reason alongside the seasons and endless torment and greater rift difficulties instead of no new content I eventualy had to quit. Only thing that chanages there if they didn't change it is the percentage of legendary loot, XP and gold per diifculty.


I don't like D3. I don't like the setting that much, I don't care for the classes, I don't like the mass killing grinding factor. And my biggest reason; In the old days I played D2 until my fingers were bleeding. Until the thought of another Mephisto run would make me physically ill. I vowed to never play Diablo again. So no thanks, I'll stick with WoW.


I didn't started to play WoW to see it evolve into Word of Diablocraft, I wanted an actual (MMO)RPG. Yet you guys always push for more and more action RPGs loot games systemsto be put in a MMORPG... The MMO part is largely gone, now people are advocating to water down the RPG part. Every expac it goes a step further, WoD killed profession and Legion ruined the stability of loot rewards and simplified specs because not everybody knew all tricks or spells.


Loot is not what makes a game an action rpg.

And the RPG is getter better imo. There's more story, more immersion. That's what makes an RPG for me personally.

'Stability of loot rewards' has NOTHING to do with RPGs. I think you might be playing the wrong game.
13/11/2017 19:27Posted by Tahra
Just understand this; for years and years WoW has been balanced around the needs of a very tiny percentage of the game's total playerbase. And in more recent years this has started to change and I applaud that.
Why should the majority suffer because of the needs of a few. You know the old saying 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few'? It fits here perfectly.

And yet the subs started dropping like a rock the moment this changed. The game has never fared worse than after it started revolving around the entitled people who were too lazy to do content that corresponded the gear they wanted. It started with tier put to vendor in WotLK, expanded with LFR in Cata, bloated further with gear upgrades and timeless isle in MoP, garrison missions in WoD and now insane titanforging in Legion that makes every tier of content exactly the same, with no need to progress to improve your character.

The 'I am entitled to everything for nothing' mentality is what is bleeding subs from this game and the underlying cause for gamebreaking systems like this. Back in the day, people would accept that those who put in effort and time get the best loot, and you either work the same to get that loot, or you simply don't get it. Having gear meant you put time and effort into the game. Now, it does not mean anything at all, chopping away a major part of the game's endgame character progress curve.
I wouldn't put it so harsh, but you're right. It makes my comment kinda unneeded... Just the underlined kinda can replace almost my entire post lol. Even when it's proven such a titanforge system like now is hurting the progression of the game, they don't wanna get rid? Hence my DIII players part, why did it ever make it into WoW in the 1st place? Want to get the best gear? Push that M+ key, mythic progression in raids or that PvP rating.
They should bring back valour points or something. They want us to feel we can still progress, well, why not have it so we can buy the upgrades with points gained from doing the old bosses again? Instead of just randomly getting lucky... I am a very unlucky person and feel I cannot raid as often because of this.
13/11/2017 14:08Posted by Postura
Please cap titanforging with a max increase of 10 ilvls max don't ruin raid progression in the next expansion.


They might, depending on how they make it so M+ stay relevant and possible to be done without raidgear.
13/11/2017 14:32Posted by Amrezy
I still stand by what I said about TF/WF, it's a fine system if it went back to how it was in MoP, iirc.

Normal can TF to baseline Heroic, Heroic baseline Mythic.


It is if you raid. It is terrible if you do M+.
Next time when you get TF please sell it to vendor.
Personaly i rather see them go back to pre-tbc way of gearing. 40man bosses having 2-3 loot pieces depending on luck. So for 20man it should be 1 piece or 2 if you are lucky then you will have to distribute it in the raid. No more personal loot. That way all the "1337" raiders that think they are awesome for doing raids can get their items and feel special as they want it to be. Also no more skipping raidtiers, and also bring back attunements. Todays system is a huge joke if you want to feel as a special raider (as most crybabies seem to think they are).
14/11/2017 00:23Posted by Destruct
I wouldn't put it so harsh, but you're right. It makes my comment kinda unneeded... Just the underlined kinda can replace almost my entire post lol.


But that's the old way. Things change. A lot.
You'll get used to this new way of doing things. And if not, you quit and move on. It happens. It's fine.

14/11/2017 00:23Posted by Destruct
Even when it's proven such a titanforge system like now is hurting the progression of the game, they don't wanna get rid? Hence my DIII players part, why did it ever make it into WoW in the 1st place?


Do I seriously have to explain it again? /sigh
Okay... They put it in the game to keep the players who don't raid (not counting LFR) occupied throughout the lifecycle of the entire expansion. And it works. Legion has had a better subscription retention than previous.

It keeps people playing the game. It's not there for the raiders. Get this through your thick skull. TF is not here for you. This game is not only about that small percentage of players who do high endgame content. There's way more people who don't run that content.

And hey, we still have to accept that we won't get certain rewards. Certain mounts, gear sets for transmog purposes and such. You still have your exclusive stuff.

14/11/2017 00:23Posted by Destruct
Want to get the best gear? Push that M+ key, mythic progression in raids or that PvP rating.


I'm not playing for the gear. It's a nice bonus and a fun surprise when I've done some of the content that I enjoy (which btw does not include M+, mythic raiding or rated pvp).

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