Change Titanforging in BfA

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14/11/2017 10:53Posted by Ragnaroker
An even better idea would be to just remove it from the game.


It's already been confirmed this is not happening, so it's a useless idea.
Also; I disagree. ;)
13/11/2017 14:08Posted by Postura
Please cap titanforging with a max increase of 10 ilvls max don't ruin raid progression in the next expansion.


devs already said no :)

titanforging is a huuuge succes :)
<span class="truncated">...</span>

You can rip any quote out of context and try to make it look bad, but it won't work.

Anyway, stop trolling please and discuss the matter at hand.

I am not trolling, i am trying to understand your point of view. Sorry for that. Will not happen again.

*sigh*


My point of view is very simple; I like titanforging.
It adds a sense of progression to the game that was missing for people who don't raid.

Imo the people who don't like TF only have 1 single problem with it that qualifies as 'legit' and that's balancing issues.

But like I've explained numerous times, that issue is not only down to TF. There's several causes for it (one other being legendaries and another being RNG itself).

Anyone who doesn't like another player getting something, does not have a legit reason. It's a petty, selfish reason.

Anyone who doesn't like the RNG, well, RNG is everywhere. Not only in TF. TF is just the tip of the iceberg in that regard.

Anyone who thinks that certain content shouldn't offer certain lvls of gear, does not have a legit reason. It's a reason steeped in an archaic way of thinking. Time to change with the times, imo.

Disclaimer: all of the above it MY opinion. I'm not selling it as fact, even though I believe that my opinion is based on logical observations.
14/11/2017 11:15Posted by Tahra
...
I am not trolling, i am trying to understand your point of view. Sorry for that. Will not happen again.

*sigh*


My point of view is very simple; I like titanforging.
It adds a sense of progression to the game that was missing for people who don't raid.

Imo the people who don't like TF only have 1 single problem with it that qualifies as 'legit' and that's balancing issues.

But like I've explained numerous times, that issue is not only down to TF. There's several causes for it (one other being legendaries and another being RNG itself).

Anyone who doesn't like another player getting something, does not have a legit reason. It's a petty, selfish reason.

Anyone who doesn't like the RNG, well, RNG is everywhere. Not only in TF. TF is just the tip of the iceberg in that regard.

Anyone who thinks that certain content shouldn't offer certain lvls of gear, does not have a legit reason. It's a reason steeped in an archaic way of thinking. Time to change with the times, imo.

Disclaimer: all of the above it MY opinion. I'm not selling it as fact, even though I believe that my opinion is based on logical observations.


sure people who invest more time do harder content deserve to be equal to people who farm world quests for loot are you kidding? also if you do lower content than raids or mythic + 15 you deserve lower gear you haven't even touched heroic and almost have the same itemlevel as me.
...

My point of view is very simple; I like titanforging.
It adds a sense of progression to the game that was missing for people who don't raid.

Imo the people who don't like TF only have 1 single problem with it that qualifies as 'legit' and that's balancing issues.

But like I've explained numerous times, that issue is not only down to TF. There's several causes for it (one other being legendaries and another being RNG itself).

Anyone who doesn't like another player getting something, does not have a legit reason. It's a petty, selfish reason.

Anyone who doesn't like the RNG, well, RNG is everywhere. Not only in TF. TF is just the tip of the iceberg in that regard.

Anyone who thinks that certain content shouldn't offer certain lvls of gear, does not have a legit reason. It's a reason steeped in an archaic way of thinking. Time to change with the times, imo.

Disclaimer: all of the above it MY opinion. I'm not selling it as fact, even though I believe that my opinion is based on logical observations.


sure people who invest more time do harder content deserve to be equal to people who farm world quests for loot are you kidding? also if you do lower content than raids or mythic + 15 you deserve lower gear you haven't even touched heroic and almost have the same itemlevel as me.


You haven't even touched mythic and you almost have the same itemlvl as me.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

sure people who invest more time do harder content deserve to be equal to people who farm world quests for loot are you kidding? also if you do lower content than raids or mythic + 15 you deserve lower gear you haven't even touched heroic and almost have the same itemlevel as me.


You haven't even touched mythic and you almost have the same itemlvl as me.


this is why we need a cap my friend i don't deserve to be over mythic baseline without even doing it.
13/11/2017 14:08Posted by Postura
Please cap titanforging with a max increase of 10 ilvls max don't ruin raid progression in the next expansion.

no
If your doing harder content your base ilevel rewards are higher and you have exactly the same chance to titanforge right?

So you will have on average higher gear than the person not doing the hard content.

If some random joe gets a lucky titanforge, so what? will it really spoil your fun in the game?.
14/11/2017 11:58Posted by Ravinee
If your doing harder content your base ilevel rewards are higher and you have exactly the same chance to titanforge right?

So you will have on average higher gear than the person not doing the hard content.

If some random joe gets a lucky titanforge, so what? will it really spoil your fun in the game?.


ok lets say it like this i raid heroic im 937 and tahra only does world quests and lfr that person and i are almost the same itemlevel please tell me how that doesn't kill progression at all.
14/11/2017 12:04Posted by Postura
14/11/2017 11:58Posted by Ravinee
If your doing harder content your base ilevel rewards are higher and you have exactly the same chance to titanforge right?

So you will have on average higher gear than the person not doing the hard content.

If some random joe gets a lucky titanforge, so what? will it really spoil your fun in the game?.


ok lets say it like this i raid heroic im 937 and tahra only does world quests and lfr that person and i are almost the same itemlevel please tell me how that doesn't kill progression at all.

If we go by this logic.

Tahra has never stepped foot in PvE end content. (Aka anything above LFR). Tahra outgears a character of mine I always do heroic clear and weekly +10 with. What's the incentive to raid when you can literally AFK in front of a slot machine and end up better?

Where is your character power curve in Legion? Nowhere, it doesn't exist anymore, it's completely randomized and triviliazed by TF. It kills the sense of progression.

Devs said there are changes coming to TF. They didn't specify. With a bit of good luck, it's a +10 cap, with 2 ilvls per upgrade. And some pieces won't titanforge anymore as they said.
14/11/2017 12:10Posted by Deanna
14/11/2017 12:04Posted by Postura
...

ok lets say it like this i raid heroic im 937 and tahra only does world quests and lfr that person and i are almost the same itemlevel please tell me how that doesn't kill progression at all.

If we go by this logic.

Tahra has never stepped foot in PvE end content. (Aka anything above LFR). Tahra outgears a character of mine I always do heroic clear and weekly +10 with. What's the incentive to raid when you can literally AFK in front of a slot machine and end up better?

Where is your character power curve in Legion? Nowhere, it doesn't exist anymore, it's completely randomized and triviliazed by TF. It kills the sense of progression.

Devs said there are changes coming to TF. They didn't specify. With a bit of good luck, it's a +10 cap, with 2 ilvls per upgrade. And some pieces won't titanforge anymore as they said.


Thank you you get it.
14/11/2017 12:04Posted by Postura
ok lets say it like this i raid heroic im 937 and tahra only does world quests and lfr that person and i are almost the same itemlevel please tell me how that doesn't kill progression at all.


It doesn't kill progression AT ALL.

The reason ilvl gap is small between you two is mainly due to relinquished gear, NOT titanforging.

Relinquished is the catch-up mechanic of patch 7.3, this generally shouldn't be a problem if this patch also came with new raid tier. However this will come later and HC gear will be 945+ while relinquished will remain 910.
So from 28th nov until the end of the expansion the difference you pointed out now will no longer be commonplace.

Therefor your outrage is misguided, again.

edit:
Upon inspecting Tahra, from the 12 relevant she has:
- 3 from World boss
- 8 relinquished (with an upgrade less than your suggested 10)
- 1 titanforged for over ToS hc level (+25)

Right now she has 931 itemlevel, if titanforging worked based on your suggested rules, that 935 ring would be the only item different from her gear, dropping her total item level by ONE POINT, to 930.

This is the impact titanforging has in this scenario YOU PRESENTED as proof that it kills progression.
So now you please tell me that a 7 ilvl difference between you and Tahra is ok, however 6 ilvl different is outrageous and destroys the game.
14/11/2017 12:04Posted by Postura
ok lets say it like this i raid heroic im 937 and tahra only does world quests and lfr that person and i are almost the same itemlevel please tell me how that doesn't kill progression at all.


It doesn't kill progression AT ALL.

The reason ilvl gap is small between you is mainly due to relinquished gear, NOT titanforging.

Relinquished is the catch-up mechanic of patch 7.3, this generally shouldn't be a problem if this patch also came with new raid tier. However this will come later and HC gear will be 945+ while relinquished will remain 910.
So from 28th nov until the end of the expansion the difference you pointed out now will no longer be commonplace.

Therefor your outrage is misguided, again.


and guess what those relinquished gear titanforged it needs to be capped.

Lets change it i almost have the same gear as Izyla while that person has 9/9 mythic please tell me if thats fair. the game should never reward players who do lower content with high gear.`

tahra gear is almost all titanforged for starters 845 helm boosts by relinquished and titanforged to 920. lets say relinquished gear is base 910 gear everything above is titanforged so that is a 20 ilvl increase of not doing hard content. I do agree with your fact about catch up mechanice but i rather had 900 ilvl and max 910. blizzard is kinda shooting itself in the foot with that.
14/11/2017 12:39Posted by Postura
and guess what those relinquished gear titanforged it needs to be capped.

Lets change it i almost have the same gear as Izyla while that person has 9/9 mythic please tell me if thats fair. the game should never reward players who do lower content with high gear.


Regarding your first statement, read what i edited in my previous post, because capping titanforged amounts to 1 ilvl point.

Secondly when doing mythic ilvl isn't everything, you don't equip what has the most ilvl, you optimize your gear. For example Izyla still uses arcanocrystal, surely she has some 935 ilvl trinket in bank but this 910 is better.

Lastly she still uses 910 gear from Nighthold for the set bonus. Again we're not talking access to better gear, we're talking about a choice. And this is what you fail to understand, not everything boils down to a single number.

14/11/2017 12:39Posted by Postura
lets say relinquished gear is base 910 gear everything above is titanforged so that is a 20 ilvl increase of not doing hard content.


First you wrongly use relinquished gear to blame titanforging, now you use legendaries aswell?

14/11/2017 12:39Posted by Postura
I do agree with your fact about catch up mechanice but i rather had 900 ilvl and max 910. blizzard is kinda shooting itself in the foot with that.


Relinquished ilvl is balanced around Antorus gear, NOT Tomb of Sargeras.
Boils down to people heroic raiding (I've seen mythic progress on literally ONE of you) and crying because Johnny-no-name gets a 930 TF once in the entire expansion. I honestly don't understand what your obsession is with what loot is dropping for other people especially when ilvl becomes largely irrelevant if you aren't using the right stat balance. Are you really that insecure that you think someone with a random TF that has his second worst stat on is going to out perform you (or indeed ever raid with you...) when you're 935+?

Grow up and focus on your own game. Try to have some fun cause I see many of you complaining about something new on here every day.
14/11/2017 13:03Posted by Gannet
14/11/2017 12:39Posted by Postura
and guess what those relinquished gear titanforged it needs to be capped.

Lets change it i almost have the same gear as Izyla while that person has 9/9 mythic please tell me if thats fair. the game should never reward players who do lower content with high gear.


Regarding your first statement, read what i edited in my previous post, because capping titanforged amounts to 1 ilvl point.

Secondly when doing mythic ilvl isn't everything, you don't equip what has the most ilvl, you optimize your gear. For example Izyla still uses arcanocrystal, surely she has some 935 ilvl trinket in bank but this 910 is better.

Lastly she still uses 910 gear from Nighthold for the set bonus. Again we're not talking access to better gear, we're talking about a choice. And this is what you fail to understand, not everything boils down to a single number.

14/11/2017 12:39Posted by Postura
lets say relinquished gear is base 910 gear everything above is titanforged so that is a 20 ilvl increase of not doing hard content.


First you wrongly use relinquished gear to blame titanforging, now you use legendaries aswell?

14/11/2017 12:39Posted by Postura
I do agree with your fact about catch up mechanice but i rather had 900 ilvl and max 910. blizzard is kinda shooting itself in the foot with that.


Relinquished ilvl is balanced around Antorus gear, NOT Tomb of Sargeras.


relinquished gear is balanced around Antorus i agree so ofc the item levels jump a bit close but lets say base relinq gear is 910 and us the numbers i like and give him all 920 by the chance of titanforging (ofc i want the chance of it happening also lower) he is now 920 lets say those legendary items add another 10 hes 930
while i don't agree with reliquished gear it is a catch up mechanice wich is way too high btw but i can live with it when its only a max of 10 ilvls legendaries are getting removed so that doesn't matter so lets put him at a steady 920 if really lucky witch my system wich is faire.

the system works best with a max of 10 ilvl increase.

the other mythic guy you talked about uses the old set because titanforging lets him do that the newer sets should always give better stats without titanforging he would be forced to use the new set newer should always be better.
14/11/2017 13:22Posted by Sunspot
Boils down to people heroic raiding (I've seen mythic progress on literally ONE of you) and crying because Johnny-no-name gets a 930 TF once in the entire expansion. I honestly don't understand what your obsession is with what loot is dropping for other people especially when ilvl becomes largely irrelevant if you aren't using the right stat balance. Are you really that insecure that you think someone with a random TF that has his second worst stat on is going to out perform you (or indeed ever raid with you...) when you're 935+?

Grow up and focus on your own game. Try to have some fun cause I see many of you complaining about something new on here every day.
`

post on your main so we can see how much of a big shot you are.

i don't need to do mythic to see a problem thats one bad argument.
14/11/2017 11:37Posted by Postura
...

You haven't even touched mythic and you almost have the same itemlvl as me.


this is why we need a cap my friend i don't deserve to be over mythic baseline without even doing it.


I don't really care about that. I don't really know what to think about titanforging, I guess I am 50/50 about it because for me personally it's usually just annoying when it doesn't happen to your bis piece for the 10th time or whatever.

On the other hand I set my lootspec to feral and got a 955 relic from my raid cache with a bis trait, that's awesome.

What I am actually very peeved about is tier set bonuses (like I said earlier). Not looking forward to Antorus when I know that it is very likely I will still be using tier 20 for the majority of it.
14/11/2017 13:32Posted by Postura
14/11/2017 13:22Posted by Sunspot
Boils down to people heroic raiding (I've seen mythic progress on literally ONE of you) and crying because Johnny-no-name gets a 930 TF once in the entire expansion. I honestly don't understand what your obsession is with what loot is dropping for other people especially when ilvl becomes largely irrelevant if you aren't using the right stat balance. Are you really that insecure that you think someone with a random TF that has his second worst stat on is going to out perform you (or indeed ever raid with you...) when you're 935+?

Grow up and focus on your own game. Try to have some fun cause I see many of you complaining about something new on here every day.
`

post on your main so we can see how much of a big shot you are.

i don't need to do mythic to see a problem thats one bad argument.

Sufficed to say my main has a higher ilvl than yours which is irrelevant because it should have nothing to do with you. What I loot doesn't affect what you loot or how you play. You and I are not competing for gear or progress so why are you so worried about my armoury? Mind your own business and play the game so you can stop crying on forum about things that have nothing to do with you.

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