Make WoW really open world?

General
Right now, at each expansion, all the previous content becomes completely obsolete. There is no reward for playing outside the last expansion, aside from transmog sets.

With the new leveling system on the Broken Isles, and the new Timewalkers events, it seems possible to make WoW a true open world, in which all the content is worth playing.

Do you think it would be a good idea to apply the Broken Isles leveling system (the mobs would increase to your level if you're higher, but would not decrease if you're lower) to the rest of the open world, and the Timewalkers system to all the dungeons (this could come with a "looking for any heroic dungeon/raid from any expansion" LFG cathegory, drastically increasing the amount of end-game content), giving rewards fitting our true level?
As an optional thing that I can choose to go in to or not? Maybe, I wouldn't mind that.

But as a standard? Hell no. One of the things that is quite charming as a higher level is to go around blowing stuff up. It gives achievement hunters less of a headache when they want to finish some achievements at max level.

Not only that, but it's fun to go out in to the world and obliterate things at a high level.
Agree with you,OP. It would be great if they could make all the zones relevant for max level players. It makes no sense to have so much unused content. Perhaps it could be done with the level scaling introduced in the Broken Isles, but allow some leeway so that we can still kill low level mobs a bit faster than max level mobs. Just don't touch the old raids - making those unable to be soloed would pretty much kill a huge part of the game.
Do you think it would be a good idea to apply the Broken Isles leveling system (the mobs would increase to your level if you're higher, but would not decrease if you're lower)


Not particularly, unless they update the older content to actually be beneficial again in terms of progression, rather than merely achievement/pet/toy farming or make it an optional setting so players can choose whether they want to have it or not.

I don't find arbitrary "difficulty" (hint: some extra HP on mobs isn't difficult, just time-consuming if you're the right class/spec or have enough gear) remotely fun if it's added to content that is outdated and not relevant to current character power progression - it'll same be a change that makes it so I have to devote more time for the same outdated rewards. The "old world" isn't going to waste because it's not "difficult", but because there's almost no reason to be there. Unless you're after obtaining old content that doesn't add to your current power progression, then you won't have to go there.

(And, frankly, I wouldn't want to go back to doing the same quests I did X years ago because they suddenly make the rewards relevant again either.)
WoW is already "really open world". The problem you're describing doesn't detract from the game's open world status.
Blizzard FK up the idea of an "expanding" the World(of Warcraft) with TBC and went with it. The "expansions" in WoW stand more as a content replacements rather than expand anything. Old content becomes irrelevant as soon as new expansion hits.
Because of this every expansion we get that same items but with slightly different name and icon.
How vast this world would be otherwise... imagine engineering recipe needing various parts scattered all over the world. But alas every expansion we get TONS of items like: carrot, slightly demonic carrot, frozen carrot, charred carrot, jade carrot, iron carrot, super fel carrot....
It depends by the next expansion. If it would be an azeroth based one maybe they could transform the old world in a scaled levelling sys (i hope with macro areas 1-6 70-90 usw), while revamping the terriories.
If they add a new planet or similar.. i think it woulnt happen
I am totally with you OP, it has been something i have wished for, for a very long time.
I am totally with you OP, it has been something i have wished for, for a very long time.
It'd be nice to have a Legacy toggle (like the PvP one) whereby you can scale content up according to your level. That way you could solo ICC, or toggle to have it scaled to need a raid group. The pros/cons would be either obsolete gear but easy mog/pet/mount farming, or actually half-decent gear that you would probably need to put some time into getting. The other advantage is some achievements are actually harder at higher levels than if it was scaled (several boss achievements in Ulduar, for example). This could apply to zones too, of course.
27/10/2017 12:27Posted by Tubri
As an optional thing that I can choose to go in to or not? Maybe, I wouldn't mind that.

But as a standard? Hell no. One of the things that is quite charming as a higher level is to go around blowing stuff up. It gives achievement hunters less of a headache when they want to finish some achievements at max level.

Not only that, but it's fun to go out in to the world and obliterate things at a high level.


Would love it to be optional... I'm too OP to be able to progress through some of the older achievements. 'this boss will trigger this cast at 25% health'; remove all gear, be naked, hit the boss, death... Damn! If I could scale down, at the push of a button, I'd love it.
27/10/2017 13:45Posted by Lyranne
It's be nice to have a Legacy toggle (like the PvP one) whereby you can scale content up according to your level. That way you could solo ICC, or toggle to have it scaled to need a raid group. The pros/cons would be either obsolete gear but easy mog/pet/mount farming, or actually half-decent gear that you would probably need to put some time into getting. The other advantage is some achievements are actually harder at higher levels than if it was scaled (several boss achievements in Ulduar, for example). This could apply to zones too, of course.


My point in a nutshell (just read this now, I agree entirely).
Open World is actually the wrong term for it, as this would refer to an MMO without loading screens or dungeons. :)

Anyways,

I fully support making content last longer than it currently does, as obviously it is already too easy and with the outgearing, outleveling it becomes even more a walk in the park.

It would also make leveling more relevant again, as it would allow us to quest in all zones of our desire and not so much in those that are just currently non grey to our toons.

Having more dungeons or even raids to queue for, sounds good, but it should always be a LFG / LFR feature, as else you would hurt those who like to solo old dungeons and raids by themselves.

The question is, if it would actually be possible to let the old rewards scale automatically? I know they can do this with newer rewards WOD+, but I am unsure if that is so easy to do with the older items, as I would not like it much, if they would have to rework all rewards once more, as this created a lot of unobtainable items with Cata, Items that still pop up at the AH for outrageous prices.
I have a few Vanilla patterns going for several hundred thousand gold, not sure if that is advisable for the WOW economy, if we get even more of that.

Last but not least, the big issue with Broken Isles scaling is the reward structure. While it works while you are not 110, it completely fails once you are. No item you find or receive as a quest reward, will be of good enough quality to be useful. They all idle around at 109 status and are far from comparable to dungeon or even raid item level. If they could fix, then yes, we might indeed get a better wow where all content is current, but I doubt this would go through with the raid community :(
The amount of work to convert ALL old content to current levels would be staggering, at least on par with the work for a new expansion.

Personally I rather see those resources spent on new things rather than slapping new paint over content you already done 40+ times.
27/10/2017 14:22Posted by Karzi
Personally I rather see those resources spent on new things rather than slapping new paint over content you already done 40+ times.

But is it worth getting new things if it removes older things that people might like in the process? I think getting the next expansion one or two months later is waaay worth it.

The toggle option sounds nice, but there needs to be a reward for using it, otherwise no one will ever do it. It shouldn't be an option you can toggle at will either, otherwise you would be able to get out of any situation simply by going back to your original level. Rather a NPC you should talk to in a town? "You now get scaled to the area's level, in return you loot Timewalker money, depending on the difficulty of what you're doing." Perhaps the same NPC you can talk to block your level?

About raids and dungeons, we could keep LFG for scaled heroic dungeons, and leave the option to scale or not (and why not a mythic mode) when we go to the actual entrance? Like the same way we choose normal or heroic mode

27/10/2017 14:22Posted by Karzi
The amount of work to convert ALL old content to current levels would be staggering, at least on par with the work for a new expansion.

Well they already reworked the old content with Cataclysm, in addition to new zones, so I think it's perfectly possible :P
Personally, I would like to see the following areas scale together:

Base Leveling
-Level 1-20 Zones
-Level 20-40 Zones
-Level 40-60 Zones

The Burning Crusade / Wrath of the Lich King
-Level 60-80 Zones

Cataclysm / Pandaria / Warlords of Draenor
-Level 80-100 Zones

Raids
Implement Timewalking raids which rewards mediocre gear; scale gear from previous raids in the expansion to match the Timewalking raids.
But is it worth getting new things if it removes older things that people might like in the process?

Yes!

Whenever Blizzard has released a new expansion, I've yet to hear anyone go: "Yeah I'll just keep hanging around here for a while, I'll do the new stuff later."

No.

People rush toward the new stuff in an instant, every man for himself, abandoning everything else in the process.

Players want new things. We may entertain the notion that we could acquire infinite amount of joy within the same old settings if the design was right, but given the opportunity everyone and their mom has always dropped whatever they've been doing to get to the new content as fast as possible. It's always been like that.

But you know, if you want to keep hanging around on the Broken Isles after the next expansion comes out, because it's good content and there's still stuff to do, then you just do that.
But is it worth getting new things if it removes older things that people might like in the process?


Yes. Yes it is. The thing with the idea of making old content "relevant" again is that people who have done the old content, have already done it when it was relevant. Timewalking is an example of this.

People who did tbc timewalking for instance were'nt filled with nostalgia of doing the heroic dungeons when they were current, the dungeons merely looked like the old dungeons but with none of the difficulty. Aside from still using the odd mechanic we no longer have a counter to *cough cough shadow resistance cough cough*. Personally, I found tbc timewalking disgusting when encounters that used to be so interesting get nerfed to the point they're nothing more than loot pinatas.

Then there was the indirect nerf timewalking got in legion, making the dungeons so much more dull that half the time i can't even bring myself to do the 5 dungeons required for the weekly quest when it's up, and i never do more than those 5 because they're just so dull.

I think getting the next expansion one or two months later is waaay worth it.


We wouldn't be talking "a month or two", we're talking 8-12 months minimum. Unless you're talking about litterally only the mobs scaling up and nothing else, meaning the zones are basically still irrelevent but slightly more annoying.

27/10/2017 15:19Posted by Rimian
Well they already reworked the old content with Cataclysm, in addition to new zones, so I think it's perfectly possible :P


But once they did they completely destroyed the scaling of leveling. Not saying it was great before that but at least before while leveling often that zones quests would still at least be green by the end, not grey with cata. Though i will say, i think a lot of the zone storylines were great in cata, shame the scaling ruins it.
27/10/2017 14:22Posted by Karzi
The amount of work to convert ALL old content to current levels would be staggering, at least on par with the work for a new expansion.

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Yes, but this is not about convert ALL content to the current level, adapting one by one every dungeon, item and enemie, this must be done one by one and requieres too much work that will become useless in the next expansion.

This is about using the leveling scaling formulas in previous content, that requires less work, is enought with using the same generic formulas for everithing, like in legion zones, and just fix any dungeon that give problems. Also all this content adapted now will continue to work in future expansions, if Broken Isles scales from 100 to 110 there is no reason to thing it cant scale up to the new expansion max level.

Partially this is already done with TimeWalker mode, every item of the game with a highter ilevel than BC heroics can be used in TimeWalker mode adapted to the dungeon level, that proves the same formula used with every item of the game works.

But there is a similar option that have the same results with easier, scale down the player level. There is no need for a major work to include this, is already in game in Timewalker mode. I prefer this option, adapt the player to the zones and dungeons level.
27/10/2017 15:53Posted by Jadzía
This is about using the leveling scaling formulas in previous content, that requires less work, is enought with using the same generic formulas for everithing, like in legion zones, and just fix any dungeon that give problems.


The dungeons ain't the main issue. The world is. Every single quest/world drop for a 100 levels needs to be reworked, not just slap a higher ilvl on them but actually redesigned as much of the first 70 levels gives items with stats that are just wrong.

27/10/2017 15:19Posted by Rimian
Well they already reworked the old content with Cataclysm, in addition to new zones, so I think it's perfectly possible :P


Of course it can be done, it's just a question of resources spent, aka money and manpower. Personally I rather see that spent elsewhere, as Blizzard does not operate on an endless budget.

But is it worth getting new things if it removes older things that people might like in the process?


Yes. It has been the case for 13 years, if I didn't think so I wouldn't still play.

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