PvE too easy - why

Classic Discussion
<span class="truncated">...</span> Sure it's me, dude. If only i could understand your profound and relevant music analogy it could have rewritten history so that addon support was never a part of Vanilla.

I think most would get what I'm saying. But as you're the guy who quoted himself (you didn't quote me, you quoted yourself) and complained about your own words I think enough is enough.

Most people would crumble in shame right now but to quote Johnny Cash:
If you gotta be dumb, you gotta be tough.

So good luck with that.


07/12/2017 15:03Posted by Dropcut
I really believe it would improve the community and better simulate the Vanilla experience than your alternative.
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but are you actually delusional? Quoted you right here and you can go to page 2 and read it for yourself. Your insistence on never having used the word ''simulate'' when it can clearly be seen on page 2 is honestly creeping me out.
07/12/2017 21:24Posted by Chargem
Why is this such a big concern? Can a mage play fire? Can a Warrior play Arms? Can a rogue play all the specs? Seems to me that all classes can play like 1 or 2 specs but mostly 1. But hybrids should be able to play all of them. In 1.1 warriors cant dps, mages are arcane it seems. Retribution might be brought since kings is so good. Do we even know what good raid setups look like in 1.1? I have no idea I don't know what the DPS charts would look like.


because i want to play vanilla i did back in the day.

we had arms Warriors in our guild, we had elemental and encha shaman, we had feral druid, we had mayby one too many Hunter.

if they tune raids too high you can only raid with narrow minded people who loves min / maxing and the most optimal builds and raid settings, it's not the kind of people i want to play with, i want to play in a laid back environment where not everyone is tightass players who blames for everyone about every little mistake or "imperfection" in raids.
07/12/2017 21:40Posted by Zienix
07/12/2017 20:50Posted by Agrima
To the people who want to make the PvE content harder. Let's assume they make it harder, will specs like...

Retribution Paladin
Feral Druid
Enhancement shaman
Balance Druid

be welcome in any of your raids?

No, they wouldn't be welcome if raids were easier either. Atleast not unless they're already core raiders from playing useful specs.

The majority of people playing hybrid classes like PvPing, farming or messing around in specs they don't raid in and collect gear for those specs. Why would I take someone into my guild to play a weaker spec as mainspec and allow that person to get gear for that spec over the others to make him remotely viable? Hell no, weak specs you can gear for and play as a reward for a job well done in your class' spec that performs well.


A useful DPS spec is any DPS spec that can perform X DPS in the following formula.

Boss health / number of DPS in raid / number of seconds boss needs to die within = X DPS

By the admission of many like yourself sub-optimal damge dealer builds already do not manage X DPS for many bosses. And this is the thing I'm getting at, this is why PvE content should not be made harder.

This way everyone can get what they want. Those that want a casual run can go with optimal builds, those that want a challenge can go with non-optimal builds and everyone is happy.
07/12/2017 22:15Posted by Agrima

A useful DPS spec is any DPS spec that can perform X DPS in the following formula.

Boss health / number of DPS in raid / number of seconds boss needs to die within = X DPS

By the admission of many like yourself sub-optimal damge dealer builds already do not manage X DPS for many bosses. And this is the thing I'm getting at, this is why PvE content should not be made harder.

This way everyone can get what they want. Those that want a casual run can go with optimal builds, those that want a challenge can go with non-optimal builds and everyone is happy.

I think having a difficulty relatively similar to 2004-2006 vanilla is more important than making everyone happy.

If Classic servers would launch on a relatively late patch for early content, for example launching at 1.12 but starting with MC & Ony content, then content would have to be buffed significantly to resemble the difficulty of progressing MC & Ony content in early patches during vanilla. Progressing 1.12 tuned MC with 1.12 talents, abilities, etc. would be much easier than it was before say patch 1.6. This would have consequences for other parts of the game as well, PvP for instance, as many more players would obtain raid gear that normally wouldn't.
07/12/2017 22:26Posted by Zienix


If Classic servers would launch on a relatively late patch for early content, for example launching at 1.12 but starting with MC & Ony content, then content would have to be buffed significantly to resemble the difficulty of progressing MC & Ony content in early patches during vanilla. Progressing 1.12 tuned MC with 1.12 talents, abilities, etc. would be much easier than it was before say patch 1.6. This would have consequences for other parts of the game as well, PvP for instance, as many more players would obtain raid gear that normally wouldn't.


The abundance of information available will already mess up the rates at which people will attain gear all by itself. If the prevailing attitude for raids is going to be that only a handful of specs can attend raids you will see said handful of specs overly represented in PvP content. At least compared to how it was back in 2005.

I'm all for no changes being made to the game but if they do make changes in the numbers department to try to make PvE more exciting then they should make an effort to leave the game in a state where every spec at least has a chance to participate in a raid, even if they would not be optimal.

I don't care about world firsts, just about the chance to participate and make use of some of the high-end gear for sub-optimal specs that rarely even got to see said gear drop, like the weapons with feral attack power for feral druids.
If they start with 1.12 all PVE content pre-AQ40 risks becoming a joke. Its not just raids, the dungeons were all nerfed too. Not a big fan.
07/12/2017 11:09Posted by Chargem
07/12/2017 10:53Posted by Naeya

Why would Blizzard put in effort to make extra stuff that is only relevant for a short period of time, for a niche audience that happens to join the first few months?


So I can never experience 1.1, 1.2, 1.3... etc, ever again because people who aren't aware that classic is rereleasing doesn't get to experience it? And isn't all their content always only relevant for the first few months? And they aren't creating any "extra stuff" or if by extra stuff you mean 90% of the vanilla experience.

I repeat, what about players who join in 1.5 or 1.12?

Are they just screwed then because they were too late to the party? They'll never be able to experience 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 ever again. Sounds rather unfair to me.

The only solution to THAT issue is with even more ludicrous solutions such as patch seasons or fresh servers.

It just creates more trouble than it's worth.
08/12/2017 13:45Posted by Naeya
<span class="truncated">...</span>

What's ludicrus about that?

You have a classic server with a max pop of around 3500.
When the population is closing in on say 2500, you release a new fresh server.
What's the big deal?

It's like you're angry at trees or something. Fkn trees with their leaves and ridiculous branches arrrggggh.
08/12/2017 00:22Posted by Tyelimos
If they start with 1.12 all PVE content pre-AQ40 risks becoming a joke. Its not just raids, the dungeons were all nerfed too. Not a big fan.


well, buff up the raids and dungeons pre-AQ40

add function, multiply HP and damage by 1,1 and see how it goes.
08/12/2017 13:45Posted by Naeya
07/12/2017 11:09Posted by Chargem
...

So I can never experience 1.1, 1.2, 1.3... etc, ever again because people who aren't aware that classic is rereleasing doesn't get to experience it? And isn't all their content always only relevant for the first few months? And they aren't creating any "extra stuff" or if by extra stuff you mean 90% of the vanilla experience.

I repeat, what about players who join in 1.5 or 1.12?

Are they just screwed then because they were too late to the party? They'll never be able to experience 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 ever again. Sounds rather unfair to me.

The only solution to THAT issue is with even more ludicrous solutions such as patch seasons or fresh servers.

It just creates more trouble than it's worth.


So let's just screw everyone? Doesn't seem much fairer... What problems with patch seasons or fresh servers do you see?
08/12/2017 14:29Posted by Rizzenn
well, buff up the raids and dungeons pre-AQ40

add function, multiply HP and damage by 1,1 and see how it goes.

You sound like a private server admin. Let's just adjust this config file here and see how it goes.

That is not the way Blizzard works (luckily). Well, most of the time ;)

Regarding addons:
Some addons were really widely used. Without decursive raiding was quite impossible, same as raid frames as a healer.

Healbot, on the other hand, was only used by lazy people. If you had enough users in your raid you learned not to heal the most damaged target...

A lot of the QoL-addons just trickled in over time, you heard from a friend that this and that is great and maybe tried it out. It was far from as comfortable as now with curse client doing everything, downloading zip files, extracting to the correct folder etc, not everybody did that.

I remember the big arrow of quest helper (or something like that) when it came out, wow, what an improvement!

What Blizzard can do is limit some aspects of the API so addons cannot be as powerful as decursive/healbot were back then. But disallowing addons? No way.

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