"Vanilla" or CLASSIC?

Classic Discussion
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29/03/2018 23:54Posted by Nostalxrius
29/03/2018 17:54Posted by Astralogion
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How . Can . The . Gap . Be . Bigger . After . A . Change ?

Really? my whole post was about that.


You explain nothing. You actually contradict yourself, but to make sure I didn't misunderstand, please, explain in a more clear way how a change to a game can make a bigger gap between the veterans and the new vanilla players.

New vanilla players, have not played vanilla before, therefore, they do not know what will be changed, it will all be new to them. To veterans it'll be a setback, however minor it might be.

So again, how can a change increase the gap? I fail to understand.
30/03/2018 13:20Posted by Astralogion
29/03/2018 23:54Posted by Nostalxrius
...
Really? my whole post was about that.


You explain nothing. You actually contradict yourself, but to make sure I didn't misunderstand, please, explain in a more clear way how a change to a game can make a bigger gap between the veterans and the new vanilla players.

New vanilla players, have not played vanilla before, therefore, they do not know what will be changed, it will all be new to them. To veterans it'll be a setback, however minor it might be.

So again, how can a change increase the gap? I fail to understand.


nothing changed: everyone can look up on the internet where/what/how.

After your change: veterans will be able to get a hold of this info pretty quick.
New players will have a hard time with all the disinformation on the internet.
Not even talking about Guilds keeping this info for themself, while not sharing it on the internet.

The difference for veterans isn't too huge, while new players will have to deal with it alot more, untill everything is known again and easy to find.
30/03/2018 17:52Posted by Nostalxrius
New players will have a hard time with all the disinformation on the internet.


That would make it even more into vanilla, though.

30/03/2018 17:52Posted by Nostalxrius
Not even talking about Guilds keeping this info for themself, while not sharing it on the internet.


Also more like vanilla.

30/03/2018 17:52Posted by Nostalxrius
The difference for veterans isn't too huge, while new players will have to deal with it alot more, untill everything is known again and easy to find.


Also, alot more like vanilla. A pro player outplays a casual, there's nothing wrong with that. But my changes doesn't increase the gap between them, it lowers it. Without it veterans doesn't need to lookup anything at all, they know all the spawns, all the timers etc which the new players don't. It's a bigger gap without the changes.
30/03/2018 18:17Posted by Astralogion
But my changes doesn't increase the gap between them

Well than that's where our opinion differs.
30/03/2018 19:51Posted by Nostalxrius
30/03/2018 18:17Posted by Astralogion
But my changes doesn't increase the gap between them

Well than that's where our opinion differs.


Your point is only valid if the whole community of new vanilla players have studied all of vanilla before playing it, all of the herb spawn points, DM tribute runs, devilsaurs etc, etc...
Invalid argument @rag kill. It's A TEN YEAR OLD GAME LOL. Anyone and their mother could do rag in a week if the tanks had fr gear. And addons we have now compared to 10yrs ago. Stop it snowflake
31/03/2018 11:59Posted by Exemplis
Invalid argument @rag kill. It's A TEN YEAR OLD GAME LOL. Anyone and their mother could do rag in a week if the tanks had fr gear. And addons we have now compared to 10yrs ago. Stop it snowflake


Which is the exact point of my topic? xD
"Vanilla" or CLASSIC?

ClaNilla.
Lets just wait and see when a release date comes out before you all get ahead of yourselves..
01/04/2018 10:41Posted by МурранF53514
"Vanilla" or CLASSIC?

ClaNilla.


:D
01/12/2017 21:27Posted by Astralogion
1. Removal of all or atleast most of the addons


Basically impossible since the classic client will most likely be based on the 8.x client.

01/12/2017 21:27Posted by Astralogion
2. Change the available consumables (not remove them)


Sure, if you want to postpone the release another 18 months.

01/12/2017 21:27Posted by Astralogion
3. Change boss tactic

Again, this would require them to hire a bunch of encounter designers and it would also postpone the release by at least two years.

01/12/2017 21:27Posted by Astralogion
4. PTR only for few select people that you trust


Impossible to do proper testing without anything leaking. What's the problem with leaks from the PTR anyway? It's a 14 year old game.

01/12/2017 21:27Posted by Astralogion
5. Absolutley no gamebreaking QoL

This is just a preference question and differs from person to person. Some find dual spec an absolute must, some find it to be a gamebreaker. I don't see why Blizzard would go into the business of changing a bunch of stuff that *may* make the game appealing when they've already said that they're recreating vanilla(and not vanilla with changes).

I don't think you understand how small their team is. They don't have the entire wow development team at their disposal, they have half a handful of guys who are only supposed to recreate vanilla on a different platform(new client). This is not a "vanilla remaster". It's just an official vanilla server, no changes.
Basically impossible since the classic client will most likely be based on the 8.x client.


Just like there's away to prevent cheating, there's definately a way to remove all addons, or just disable the adding of any addons to the game. Make WoW not read the addons folder or whatever.

Sure, if you want to postpone the release another 18 months.


It'll probably take 18ish months anyway, I'm down for waiting if the game will turn out better.

Again, this would require them to hire a bunch of encounter designers and it would also postpone the release by at least two years.


I carefully explained how little these changes need to be. I'm not talking about redesigning abilities and whatnot, I merely ask for changing the timers, add or remove a few seconds so that without BigWigs, the veterans wouldn't know precisely what to do without having to practise first. It really shouldn't take much time to change tbh.

Impossible to do proper testing without anything leaking. What's the problem with leaks from the PTR anyway? It's a 14 year old game.


Because, if you make the changes, then PTR leaks, then you'll already have pre-knowledge of everything that was changed which makes my whole point void. Therefore, Blizzard should only keep PTR within the company to prevent as much leaks as possible.

01/04/2018 13:07Posted by Zauru
I don't see why Blizzard would go into the business of changing a bunch of stuff that *may* make the game appealing when they've already said that they're recreating vanilla(and not vanilla with changes).


Well, they did bring up some change questions that they want to explore. For example, should UBRS be 5 man or 10 man etc.
01/04/2018 13:33Posted by Astralogion
For example, should UBRS be 5 man or 10 man etc.


01/04/2018 13:33Posted by Astralogion
UBRS be 5 man


That about explains all of your posts.
You don't even know what I am looking for, you fail to define it in almost every post you make.


i already asked this on my previous posts, but here it goes again, mayby this time you won't ignore it if i make one question at a time.

is it not your goal to make these?:

- make smaller gap between new(er) and veteran players, so veteran players don't hold all the advantages. ( and so ragnaros won't be killed in the first week )

- make something new to explore and discover for everyone ( because "it's not vanilla experience if you can look it up from internet before the game even launches" )

- while not making any drastic changes to the game and keeping at close to original as possible.

- remove or atleast make sure you can't get advantage of modern addons.

like i previously posted, if this is not your goal, then please clarify, because looking your original post this seems to be your goal, tell me what i'm missing.

and please, don't post just "still doesn't get it" like you've done 20 times, explain.
02/04/2018 09:22Posted by Vunde
01/04/2018 13:33Posted by Astralogion
For example, should UBRS be 5 man or 10 man etc.


01/04/2018 13:33Posted by Astralogion
UBRS be 5 man


That about explains all of your posts.


I am not for UBRS being 5 man though, that's too much of a change to me.

I don't consider my "ideas" to be that much of a change.

02/04/2018 10:06Posted by Cai
- make smaller gap between new(er) and veteran players, so veteran players don't hold all the advantages. ( and so ragnaros won't be killed in the first week )


Yes, that would be ideal.

02/04/2018 10:06Posted by Cai
- make something new to explore and discover for everyone ( because "it's not vanilla experience if you can look it up from internet before the game even launches" )


Yes.

02/04/2018 10:06Posted by Cai
- while not making any drastic changes to the game and keeping at close to original as possible.


Yes.

02/04/2018 10:06Posted by Cai
- remove or atleast make sure you can't get advantage of modern addons


Yes. However, seeing that bringing back old addons in their broken forms isn't possible, I'm down for removing all addons. It would be fun to have things as Damage Meter, but meh.

02/04/2018 10:06Posted by Cai
and please, don't post just "still doesn't get it" like you've done 20 times, explain.


These points are indeed some of what I mean. But, yes, your posts does not at all bring these points to attention. You seem to confuse literal writing with illustrations.

For example, Vunde, up above here made an illustration of my entire post that he/she thinks is correct. I understand that this is an illustration. Both he/she and me knows perfectly well that I didn't say that I want 5 man UBRS. When I, however, wrote something similar, you thought that I said that you said something that you didn't, which is what I tried to explain like 5 times.

Same thing with the "time machine" you keep refering to. You said several times that "we don't want a time machine", I never suggested a time machine, although I said it would be ideal, but I also explained how impossible it is to get it exactly like it. And so, I explained that these changes would bring it closer to it, but not an actualy time machine.

Yes, I began to become very irritated because I explained to your comment several times but you never got it, this is why I was triggered. I'm sorry if I appeared rude.
Some of these changes you propose is not bad but since there is 5000 opinions in the air its INSANITY!!!
Dont you realise this is going to hell???

HOW HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND???
Cannot please everywone its simpel, just play retail if you cant stand Vanilla/Classic!!!
02/04/2018 17:41Posted by Stepchíld
just play retail if you cant stand Vanilla/Classic!!!


Probably the worst comment.

You go play retail if you can't handle REAL classic.
Can't handle doing anything without guides and retail-addons for vanilla?
No you can't. Go to retail.

Did that feel good? Was that comment even relevant? No, it wasn't. Now go post something productive instead of repeating the old garbage.

This is a forum, OPENED to Classic discussion, it's made precisely for this reason.
Now, if you cannot understand that, then you have no place on the forums. Please be civil next time instead of just spitting out (step)childish gibberish.
02/04/2018 17:53Posted by Astralogion
02/04/2018 17:41Posted by Stepchíld
just play retail if you cant stand Vanilla/Classic!!!


Probably the worst comment.

You go play retail if you can't handle REAL classic.
Can't handle doing anything without guides and retail-addons for vanilla?
No you can't. Go to retail.

Did that feel good? Was that comment even relevant? No, it wasn't. Now go post something productive instead of repeating the old garbage.

This is a forum, OPENED to Classic discussion, it's made precisely for this reason.
Now, if you cannot understand that, then you have no place on the forums. Please be civil next time instead of just spitting out (step)childish gibberish.


They make changes to retail, there is where the changes are.
If they change something like addons who cares, i dont mind.
Lets get CLASSIC and only CLASSIC!

I am just voiceing my opinion and that's what this forum is for, nothing wrong with me just because you dont share the same mindset.

#NOCHANGES
02/04/2018 18:08Posted by Stepchíld
02/04/2018 17:53Posted by Astralogion
...

Probably the worst comment.

You go play retail if you can't handle REAL classic.
Can't handle doing anything without guides and retail-addons for vanilla?
No you can't. Go to retail.

Did that feel good? Was that comment even relevant? No, it wasn't. Now go post something productive instead of repeating the old garbage.

This is a forum, OPENED to Classic discussion, it's made precisely for this reason.
Now, if you cannot understand that, then you have no place on the forums. Please be civil next time instead of just spitting out (step)childish gibberish.


They make changes to retail, there is where the changes are.
If they change something like addons who cares, i dont mind.
Lets get CLASSIC and only CLASSIC!

I am just voiceing my opinion and that's what this forum is for, nothing wrong with me just because you dont share the same mindset.

#NOCHANGES


Sorry, what?

I am in no way against you expressing your opinion, as I also stated. You were the one to come here bashing me for having opinions and ideas. Instead of providing some actual arguments you just went about spitting in caps.
02/04/2018 13:50Posted by Astralogion
Same thing with the "time machine" you keep refering to. You said several times that "we don't want a time machine", I never suggested a time machine, although I said it would be ideal, but I also explained how impossible it is to get it exactly like it. And so, I explained that these changes would bring it closer to it, but not an actualy time machine.


02/04/2018 13:50Posted by Astralogion
These points are indeed some of what I mean. But, yes, your posts does not at all bring these points to attention. You seem to confuse literal writing with illustrations.


now that we have established ( finaly... when i pointed it out 1 thing at a time ) that i do realize what you're trying to achieve, we can get to other area that is my original points :

and i keep telling you the same thing.

point1 :

- what you want achieve (what i listed above ) isn't possible without drastic / very large ingame changes.

they can't be achieved with minor adjustments, that's what i've been trying to tell you.

- and quite frankly ( just my opinion, i'm not saying this is impossible because i have no facts over this ), your hope that new information isn't going to be leaked, is pretty difficult one, a LOT was leaked from original vanilla during beta, VERY early on, i know because i was one playing beta, and i followed it quite close. And your hope that beta team will be small and "only trusted ones" is also quite far fetched, i'm not going onto details, and all i will say is that wow is very large game.

the difference is, during original vanilla wow, we didn't know what to do with this vast, massive ammount of information, now we do.

point2 :

- thus -> you want timemachine ( note : BECAUSE : a. you want unexplored experience something not known before AND at the sametime, b. as little changes as possible thus : timemachine, only way to achieve BOTH), because even those minor ( or large ) changes doesn't provide the same experience, it's just going to be different, even if similar. And now, i hope you are not TRIGGERED with timemachine part, and we can realize timemachine isn't a possibility ( even if it's something everyone would like ) we can skip into more important part :

(read this, this is more important part)
and here we get into my second point, whatever is going to be closer to original experience(because we have established, that nothing is going to be original experience) is personal preference. Meaning, even if certain change is going to be closer to your original experience, isn't for someone else, you for example measure ( or should i say, one of the measurement ) "closer" experience with how fast ragnaros is killed, someone else couldn't care less how fast ragnaros is killed, and thus changes ( whatever they may be ) can(meaning, possibly) interfare his experience.

- this same point also applies to ADDONS, whatever you think no addons is closer to original experience, is a matter of opinion, you can't tell for someone else who used vastly addons during original vanilla, that no addons is CLOSER to original experience, than more modern addons, that still serves the same function, even if improved. IT IS, and will always be, personal preferance and opinion.

i hope you now can see my POINTS instead of accusing me i don't understand anything, and quoting small parts like timemachine and raging over it.

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