[Troll RP] Atal Zanza Aka

Argent Dawn
The Atal Zanza Aka have reformed and are back recruiting! Sound interesting to you? Well read this!

*Tribal drums beat resounding throughout Skulltusk Village. A Zandalari dressed in fine robes and carrying a staff of gold flanked by his guards speaks*

The times are dire friends, after the disastrous loss on The Isle of Thunder we cannot seek to do this alone, after the lesser races have bested us we must have lost favour with the Loa. The false Prophet Zul has made a mockery of our great Empire, our great legacy. The Darkspear still have the favour of the Loa.

The King himself advises that we best seek to ally with the Darkspear in such trying times, we must do our utmost to survive, we cannot go around fighting a war on two fronts.

OOC Information

Who or what are the Atal Zanza Aka?
The Atal Zanza Aka, or Zanza's Devoted Children are a group of Zandalari supporting Trolls who seek to preserve and follow in the old ways of Trollish society, our group seeks to align with the Horde to better preserve the Zandalari and the Trollish people.

Interesting! How did you form?
The Devoted Children were formed when a group of Trolls from Loa Atal Ai formally abandoned the Horde to carry on their culture without interference from "lesser races", they do not seek conquest or to mindlessly slaughter all non Trollish life, however they are still Trolls and will do anything to keep their culture alive and their people safe.

However, since the disastrous battle upon The Isle of Thunder Zaza'jin feels that it is important to seek a place within The Horde to best preserve the long legacy of the Zandalari, and to other them service by way of naval expertise.

How is your guild structured?
At the top of the ranks, we have the Jin, Zaza'jin. Formerly a Hexx'Antu in the Loa Atal Ai, Zaza'jin leads the tribe and represents the Zandalari people within the group.

The Antu Council who are Zaza's most trusted advisors:
Valoku, the Antu'sul. Leader of the Farakki people within the group and Zaza's right hand man.

Where are you guys based?

OOCly, Shadowprey Village. We're based here due to finding it a quiet area, Trollish and not far from Orgrimmar. IC it's called Skulltusk Village and isn't a part of the Horde, some distance away from Shadowprey.

Why there and not Zul'Gurub?

The Zandalari Empire are based there and doing their own thing, we want to do things differently and not interfere with their plots, RP etc due to having differing guild lore.

So how does your guild differ from Zandalari Empire?

We only take Trolls, rather than other races, we prefer to wander around and our plots are a little more fast paced, lasting months rather than years, and we use voodoo and abilities more readily in roleplay.

We also do raids, battlegrounds and the like as a guild so we wish to provide a variety of things to do. Though to clarify a lot of my information of Zandalari Empire's from 2013, so I am not sure how things are for them now.

We also seek to align with the Horde, and are currently neutral towards it, and to the best of my knowledge the Zandalari Empire are still hostile, but I've been away from RP for some time so I am unsure how things are for them now.
*Reserved for more information*
Awesome and fun troll roleplay! Development and growth as a tribe and individuals within it through exciting roleplay. A great bunch of people OOC as well! I'm really looking forward to seeing what the new year brings for the denizens of Skulltusk Village!
As a returning player the direction of the guild confuses me a bit I have to say, despite applauding more troll role-play on this server. Hopefully you can shed some light on these concerns, especially to prevent further clashes in Orgrimmar.

*Changing loyalty between Rastakhan, Zul and back. Your argent archives state
Their goal was to make their last stand with the forces of Zul.
Now I see the GM being the King’s hand. How is this change justified considering we know there is trouble between Rastakhan and Zul? Why would Rastakhan make a troll supporting traitor Zul his hand? And how do your players deal with the changing loyalty IC?

* You write on your Argent Archives page:
Rastakhan furious at the loss of so many Trolls due to Zul's stupidity was forced to do the unthinkable, to ally with the 'lesser races' for The Empire of Zul's survival.

To this end he had tasked Zaza'jin and his followers to travel to Orgrimmar in disguise to secure a place in the Horde for the Zandalari

Expansion hype is fun. But is it not too early? IC no one knows yet about what happens in Battle for Azeroth. Saying Rastakhan decides to reach out to the Horde (and in specific using Zazajin) is making decisions for major lore characters and an unreleased Blizzplot. We do not know if Rastakhan wishes to align with the horde or the other way around. Or how maybe his daughter is involved. Already Zandalari here wanting to align in the King’s name and building on a new expansion IC seems full of risks /potential lore problems, and risks role-players who do not want to know about the new expansion yet IC to be ‘spoiled’ or receive information they can not act upon(like speaking in public roleplayhubs about offering the Zandalari fleet to Horde).

* I see you accept all trolls. But it is not stated if all trolltribes will unite under Rastakhan or if it was just under Zul. How will be dealt with this? There are some tribes that must be difficult Horde aligned (Drakkari and Amani come to mind).

* I am also confused as to why point out the differences with specific guilds in your recruitment thread, especially with statements that are potentially false as you mentioned. It might just be me, but it seems a little rude to advertise your guild over the back of another. Most guilds here advertise with ‘what to expect of us’, so players themselves can make the comparison and decide playstyle they prefer, which seems fair and prevents bias.

I wish you best of luck, but for a guildconcept building almost completely on lore unknown or lore roleplayers want to explore when they can actuallyvisit the new continents and welcome the Zandalari in Horde Empire seems risky.
I'm sure Zaza'jin and Valoku will be able to answer most of your concerns - as I'm only a member and not an officer I'm gonna keep my head out of anything official.

You did, however, raise some interesting points for the individual members:
06/01/2018 22:33Posted by Fìnexì
how do your players deal with the changing loyalty IC?


Easy for my troll at least - she doesn't know. She wishes to unite troll kind, rather than have trolls spill troll blood and it was under these promises she was recruited with fancy words and awe-inspiring speeches.

06/01/2018 22:33Posted by Fìnexì
Expansion hype is fun. But is it not too early? IC no one knows yet about what happens in Battle for Azeroth.


Personally, I didn't join because of expansion hype but because the idea of a tribe, travelling to unite troll kind as they were in the glorious days of yore appealed to my character. She's travelling with brave fighters, talented hexxers and under the guidance of a charismatic leader. He may or may not IC be blowing smoke up their you-know-whats - only time will tell.
No one does indeed know yet what happens in BfA - maybe by then we'll have decapitated the jin, maybe we'll be so devoted we consider him a demigod, maybe we'll have made a few IC friends within the Horde, maybe half of us will be dead by then. The IC development does not in any way come off as planned to match some expected outcome before the expansion releases.

06/01/2018 22:33Posted by Fìnexì
I see you accept all trolls. But it is not stated if all trolltribes will unite under Rastakhan or if it was just under Zul. How will be dealt with this? There are some tribes that must be difficult Horde aligned (Drakkari and Amani come to mind).


Time will tell - in the guild itself the tribes struggle to work peacefully side by side. Many generations of bad blood are hard to forget, even for the most peaceful characters, but this all creates interesting and character-developing RP. The fate of the more risky tribes are uncertain, but so is their fate even in the status-quo; Farraki, Amani, Drakkari - they are all on the brink and yes, they may not be able to join the Horde when BfA releases but IC that will surely just give rise to new interesting developments.
During the current RP the different tribes with AZA are learning eachother's history and the basis for a begrudging respect is forming. Even if the outlier-tribes are not allowed within the Horde at BfA's release maybe IC relations have been formed that will help a break-out guild survive, much like Kai'ju is so succesfully doing.

To summarize as a member BfA has hardly even crossed my mind both before and since joining and the RP is much more focused on tribal traditions and bonding than a expansion-hype-fueled storyline.

06/01/2018 22:33Posted by Fìnexì
I wish you best of luck


Thank you!!!
Hello!
Allow me to answer some of the queries you raised in your post so you can better understand where we are coming from!

*Changing loyalty between Rastakhan, Zul and back. Your argent archives state Now I see the GM being the King’s hand. How is this change justified considering we know there is trouble between Rastakhan and Zul? Why would Rastakhan make a troll supporting traitor Zul his hand? And how do your players deal with the changing loyalty IC?
- Now this is quite simple I believe the OP may have be edited to make it simpler to follow, - The changing loyalty Isn't really that it's simple the realisation that Zul has used the tribes to push his own agenda stating that the King was dead to all of them and Zandalar sunk beneath the sea, This really only represents a bigger conundrum for Zandalari themselves as the other tribes would have had limited interaction and understanding of Zandalari Politics,
To this end right up until the aftermath of Isle of thunder these trolls would have truly believed Zul's words to be true and they followed him in the King's stead, This now we know to be false so it's merely seeing the truth and reaffirming their loyalty to King Rastakhan.

Expansion hype is fun. But is it not too early? IC no one knows yet about what happens in Battle for Azeroth. Saying Rastakhan decides to reach out to the Horde (and in specific using Zazajin) is making decisions for major lore characters and an unreleased Blizzplot. We do not know if Rastakhan wishes to align with the horde or the other way around. Or how maybe his daughter is involved. Already Zandalari here wanting to align in the King’s name and building on a new expansion IC seems full of risks /potential lore problems, and risks role-players who do not want to know about the new expansion yet IC to be ‘spoiled’ or receive information they can not act upon(like speaking in public roleplayhubs about offering the Zandalari fleet to Horde).

To this you are 100% correct! This is why you will not see us in Orgrimmar until BfA draws to pre-patch or even earliest days of release, on a OOC Basis we are of course extremely hyped for the expansion but ICly we have many months of events planned that has nothing to do with Zandalar and the Horde relations in terms of our own Guild campaign storylines that these "Alliance" plans will come when they come and we get the full reasons as to why they happen, This information was put on the Ad here to show that this is our future plans we plan to interact more with the horde in general rather then continue to be isolationist, And yes old rivalries and hatreds are hard to kill so ICly a bit of friction between some races may be some fun for all concerned!

I wish you best of luck, but for a guildconcept building almost completely on lore unknown or lore roleplayers want to explore when they can actually visit the new continents and welcome the Zandalari in Horde Empire seems risky.


Well let's be completely honest from a OOC basis waiting till release then trying to throw together any old thing and expect it to be great just won't do, Without the horde alliance that is coming up, And Zandalar is some far off place we will not be returning to in some time. All we are really doing is some Tribal troll RP, Nomadically moving around to see how the other troll tribes are faring following the great losses during the MoP war. It takes time to build a community and make plans together all in all we do agree with you it would be insane for us to sit in Orgrimmar right now and start claiming to be allies to the horde without any understanding of why, Which is exactly why we've taken this route! To offer people who join early regular events and almost daily casual RP. Along with PvP nights, Raiding and Keystone runs etc for those that would like the chance to. With a view in the future to be more open with alliances with other Horde guilds.

I hope this clears up some of your questions, If it raises any further I'll be happy to clarify for you!
Thank you both for the lengthy replies. I too think many Zandalari would be disillusioned with Zul’s campaign. And I imagine some abandoning him and return to Rastakhan if that is even allowed. For individual trolls I understand the decision of regretting fighting for Zul. Or not aware this guild used to be Zul aligned, like Zensa kindly pointed out for her character.

I do not understand the current concept and base of the guild: why Rastakhan would make Zazajin his hand and personally make him responsible for securing a place in the Horde if this character was a Zul loyalist. I do not understand why playing out a plot of securing a place in the Horde at all if we do not know yet how and on which terms this is happening. This makes it feel like the guild is resurrected each time trolls receive attention from Blizzard and then swings in that direction: from horde-friendly, to zul’s allies, to secure a place in the Horde.

I respect Zensa’s reasoning of “The IC development does not in any way come off as planned to match some expected outcome before the expansion releases.” But my confusion is spurred by the foundation, not the future, of your guild the plot of BfA that seems to be a year early with all problems and uncertainties this gives. If the guild was a tribal guild like Kaiju, Zandalar, Zulguede or Zandalari Empire which does their tribal roleplay unaware of BfA, Zandalari joining the Horde, the nature of the new Loa and so on, and acts on BfA once it is out you would have a more solid base and would perhaps find a fitting solution to matters as previous Zul-loyalty and other trollstribes part of your guild.

With ‘expansion hype’ I don’t mean wanting to play trolls or exotic tribes is a bad thing (it is actually great come back to more troll rp and the new interest in rp the blizzcon brought, it is why I returned myself too) , but making a plot that is not out yet ‘your’ guildplot: Zazajin tasked to secure a place in the Horde for the Zandalari.

07/01/2018 10:11Posted by Váloku
all in all we do agree with you it would be insane for us to sit in Orgrimmar right now and start claiming to be allies to the horde without any understanding of why,


Errrrr……

https://imgur.com/a/KbakB

This was in the troll area of Orgrimmar before you clashed and duelled with a horde guild. And your Drakkari seems to frequently hang out in Orgrimmar too.
07/01/2018 11:51Posted by Fìnexì
And your Drakkari seems to frequently hang out in Orgrimmar too.


As one of said Drakkari I would like to state for the record that ever since we left the area around Orgrimmar my character has not, and will not, set foot in Orgrimmar again!

I did have some rather lengthy conversations with folks in Orgrimmar about it and I do understand the concequences of hanging around places where her kin are the enemy. But that has been sorted, so worry not.
Errrrr……

https://imgur.com/a/KbakB

This was in the troll area of Orgrimmar before you clashed and duelled with a horde guild. And your Drakkari seems to frequently hang out in Orgrimmar too.


We were in Orgrimmar briefly wearing disguises to test the waters amongst the residing trolls. We didn't initiate any problems and we left quickly, departing to our IC village.
07/01/2018 14:31Posted by Zazajin
Errrrr……

https://imgur.com/a/KbakB

This was in the troll area of Orgrimmar before you clashed and duelled with a horde guild. And your Drakkari seems to frequently hang out in Orgrimmar too.


We were in Orgrimmar briefly wearing disguises to test the waters amongst the residing trolls. We didn't initiate any problems and we left quickly, departing to our IC village.


Hello there! As a returning RPer, seeking to find a home for my troll, I feel as if Finexi is raising some very important points and I'm glad you are all so welcoming to answer them all however, I felt there was enough things striking me that I have to indulge in the conversation too.

First off, the main issue is addressed by Finexi already but, reading the comments in the screenshot. You seem to already know about this major fleet in character, be able to say you are here with the greatest fleet to bound an alliance with the horde.
How are your characters aware of this and why do you above state that it's not the case on how you RP the coming expansion out?

Second question. How does a sub-species such as Zandalari and Drakkari disguise themselves well enough to not be caught out? After all, if you look at their body structure and build in general, they would need magic to properly disguise themselves? Just like many other troll sub-species, a mask and a cloak won't do enough to hide away the obvious fact that they are not Horde aligned trolls.

Third question, that Finexi already touched upon is. How can Zaza'jin be granted such a major role as an essential lore character? After all, it would make him a Blizzplot lore character, being the one and all right hand of the king, sent here to unite a whole upheaval of races. It just seems like a bit of an overstretch. Perhaps you have worded it strangely on AA and here but to me it seems like you are making Zaza'jin out to be close to someone we would perhaps have as a leading lore character.

Fourth thing, is the guild a tribe or just a band of several trolls? You seem to use it like an interchangable thing but being a tribe is something completely different from being an emissary, is it not?

I just got too curious really, as I'm really looking forward to getting into Troll RP.
Hey Zursha! Welcome back to RP! I hope you find a welcoming home in the Troll community whether with us, or another group!

To answer the first and third question simultaneously: Simply because Zaza'jin says something IC doesn't mean it's actually what has happened/will happen IC. Anyone can make claims after all - whether people believe these claims is another matter. He was on Zuldazar for four years after the defeat on Isle of Thunder, that much is true; but Zaza'jin the character is known for spinning tall tales to make himself sound greater than he is. He felt the other Trolls wouldn't flock to him if they believed him to merely be a survivor of a disastrous battle, so he makes himself look bigger and more important by saying these things IC. As Zaza the player I can tell you a lot of what my character says IC is just grandstanding, he lies, he brags, he's very hypocritical and short tempered, whether your character chooses to belief Zaza'jin or not is up to you.

To answer your second question: Powerful hexxers supplied those that could not pass for Horde trolls with illusions and magic and they did not linger for longer periods of time in order to not be found out. As mentioned earlier this was only a preliminary "scouting" mission and was done with appropriate fear of being found out and respect for the Horde guardians of Orgrimmar. After the scrap with the Horde group of Trolls IC Zaza'jin grew paranoid and fled out of the city and into hiding, fearing that they might discover his secret.

With regards to the fourth question - that's a really interesting one. It is NOT a tribe but a travelling band, consisting of trolls from different tribes. It does, however, have a tribal feel as the trolls live, fight and worship together.
It's written as being OOC information, I can understand deceit being written IC but this is after all a recruitment thread written from an OOC descriptive background, and the same seems done with the Argent Archive thread. Nowhere does it show to be written out of the perspective of IC, nor does it state that it's not to be taken as the actual description of the guild.

It's as it stands now, it's written to be the actual description and lore of the guild. I can understand he is blowing things out of proportion IC but there is nothing that gives that impression in the recruitment thread nor AA as I said, it's just coming from the mouths of the RPers, which is strange indeed. As myself seeking a place saw this and the AA and instantly understood it as such to be the actual background and view of the history of the guild.

And, as all I can find, doing some research now there are no hexes that can transform the appearance of people unless you make them into critters.

Third of all, if it's not a tribe, then how is Zaza'jin, a jin, as it would require him to be a leader of a tribe, no? I'm wondering this as I assumed the guild to be one due to the suffix.
07/01/2018 16:15Posted by Zazajin

To answer the first and third question simultaneously: Simply because Zaza'jin says something IC doesn't mean it's actually what has happened/will happen IC.


But your OOC guild information literally states Rastakhan tasked Zazajin, your TRP says 'hand of Rastakhan' and your characters 'lies and bragging' just happen to be exactly in line with the plot of the new expansion? I would understand/believe it if the guild OOC was advertised as a tribal guild with a Zandalari leading, who IC claims to be good friends with the King (without conveniently predicting the entire plotline of the next expansion). This seems wiggling yourself out of the rather valid concerns about your guild by saying 'it is just IC' while everything else points otherwise.

EDIT: Zursha beat me to it :)
07/01/2018 16:24Posted by Zursha
As myself seeking a place saw this and the AA and instantly understood it as such to be the actual background and view of the history of the guild.


That's a valid criticism given the misunderstandings and maybe the recruitment post and the AA-page can use some tweaking in the future to ease understanding.

07/01/2018 16:24Posted by Zursha
doing some research now there are no hexes that can transform the appearance of people unless you make them into critters.


Many people utilize their imagination to build on the info Blizzard has given us on the different types of magic, because although Azeroth is magical and wonderful its lore leaves a lot to be desired. Once again, however, this incident was quite a while ago and in the infacy of the guild so there's not much point in spending too much energy in the hows of past hexxings.

07/01/2018 16:24Posted by Zursha
Third of all, if it's not a tribe, then how is Zaza'jin, a jin,


Jin is a term of respect to indicate someone as a leader. I haven't in my time as RPing a troll ever heard it be limited to a tribe only.
Jin is a term of respect to indicate someone as a leader. I haven't in my time as RPing a troll ever heard it be limited to a tribe only.


That's strange, never come across anyone using it that A, didn't know lore very well or B. Had a tribe of their own. - After all it's used for Tribal leaders in lore, the only one is Rada'jin and he is from a comic and not considered Canon by most or at all really.

Many people utilize their imagination to build on the info Blizzard has given us on the different types of magic, because although Azeroth is magical and wonderful its lore leaves a lot to be desired. Once again, however, this incident was quite a while ago and in the infacy of the guild so there's not much point in spending too much energy in the hows of past hexxings.


Many do yes but you still need to keep true to the lore and rules given already by Blizzard, or else we are never working on an equal fundation. I know many bend lore to fit themselves but others can't be expected to accept it. Mistakes happens in many cases in the infancy of guilds and I can accept that but I don't like it being boiled down to "Well, because."

I'm glad however that you all have been kind enough to respond to my messages and questions, I do hope you find the path you seek with the guild and wish you best of luck but I think, as a whole it might not fit my own character so much.
Thank you though!
I will point out despite having RP'd on a Troll for a good 7 years by this point I've been out of the RP game for 4 years, I'm a bit rusty with everything at the moment, re-learning the ins and outs of the RP scene and so on.

I am going to take on board the criticisms and comments made to help improve the guild and the AA and recruitment thread, it's for this reason Valoku and I wanted to redo the guild so early, so that we were are able to take on board people's criticism, and iron out some of the issues IC.

We both felt if we did it like a week or two before BFA came out it'd be much harder to fix this, I want to build a community that will last, not something that's flash in the pan.

Thanks again for the input and advice and best of luck within your future guild!
We had a great night tonight, we decided as a guild to take on normal mode Antorus, we managed to get a full clear and there was much loot and fun to be had all around!

We've got a great event chain planned soon, too!
I believe you to be assuming too much in concerns to Rastakhan. The truth is we do not know how the Zandalari will join the Horde. For all we know we might have to convince them. I understand you are hyped about the expansion and wanting to fit the concept of the guild with it, but assuming Rastakhan is already offering the fleet might be too much fan speculation.

Regardless, best of luck with everything and welcome back.

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