Wouldn't the Alliance easily outmatch the Horde?

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Bringing a single guy from Argus would mean strengthening the numbers. They would strengthen by one. Hardly significant when talking about the size of an army.
That quote doesn't clarify much.

And about my post, I simply doubt the numbers they can pull are of any relevance when comparing the amount of soldiers if the bulk of the playable allied race is comprised by upgraded regular Draenei that were already fighting for the Alliance.
Some were discussing numbers, so i talked about numbers.


Where does it say the bulk of the Lightforged is by the initiates?

Where?

"Turalyon: Among our number are brave initiates about to undertake the arduous path of becoming Lightforged."

Keep in mind if you got it from this quote, it doesn't say bulk of the Lightforged are from regular Draenei.

It isn't one Lightforged because Anduin easily acknowledged a noticeable strength increase.

"Anduin Wrynn: Thank you, High Exarch. Lightforged soldiers would indeed bring strength to our numbers."

If one soldier brings such a visual increase in strength that the King notices, then he must be one monster of a soldier.
Stuff like the Vindicaar and other WMDs on both sides will clearly stay out this time as Blizzard wants the faction conflict to "return to its original roots", meaning no WMDs at all so it's useless to always bring them in the arguments. That much is clear.

About the numbers of the allied races, it's honestly useless and a bit boring to always discuss which faction got the greater numbers, as clearly the allied race will play a very minor role in the faction war anyway, and the main races will be the ones who are going to actively fight for the most part. And we know from the statements of Sylvanas and Anduin that both the Horde and the Alliance's ranks are pretty much depleted, so they are pretty much even number-wise, and another reason for me to believe that the faction war will be rather short, probably two patches at best.

There will be no clear winner eventually and the Horde and Alliance might or might not both keep the zones that they have conquered in their respective continents, but knowing the laziness of Blizzard those new zones will be barely updated at best, anyway. And then both factions will band and work together once again against the real enemy that pretty much created the faction conflict in the first place.
I think maybe for all of our sanity, we should just allow these posts to get made, and just post going "YAY! ALLIANCE WINS" Then just ignore the hells out of them. The reasonable people who play Alliance will find them amusing and a bit embarrassing, the Horde can just ignore them, as it isn't what Blizzard thinks, and the people who believe it can have fun having a sub intellectual version of playing the sticky biscuit game.

Maybe given time actual conversations can be had, but right now, just leave them to their sticky biscuit game

Yeah! Alliance totally wins! They're super Awesome and can do no Wrong!

See how childish that looks?

Yeah...
23/12/2017 18:38Posted by Iresea
23/12/2017 18:31Posted by Brigante
however Anduin does state that Alliance losses were extremely heavy in the Legion War


Sylvanas says the same about the Horde.

23/12/2017 18:31Posted by Brigante
Logistics. Transport and Portals. Neither side really has the edge here,


Don't forget about the Deeprun Tram which connects two major Alliance capitals.

23/12/2017 18:31Posted by Brigante
We know the Alliance are -willing- to use Tactical Mana Bombs in the quest of the same name on Thunder Isle, but those ones are stolen Blood Elf munitions, there's no indication the Alliance can make them.


An Alliance (drunken) Gnome was able to perfect the Blight before the Royal Apothecary Society did, so the Alliance can potentially replicate the Blight. But they are not as cruel as the Forsaken, so they will never do that.


Really? You do know the human race has dropped atomic bombs on two major cities, mass exterminated native americans and jews, as well as other ethnic cleansings, cultural 'revolutions' and a lot of other things that fills decent people with horror? Why wouldn't they exterminate every last member of the horde if they had the chance? Any good reason apart from 'morals' that are as fleeting as a fart in the breeze and abandoned whenever convenient?
24/12/2017 05:45Posted by Vikverjar
Really? You do know the human race has dropped atomic bombs on two major cities, mass exterminated native americans and jews, as well as other ethnic cleansings, cultural 'revolutions' and a lot of other things that fills decent people with horror? Why wouldn't they exterminate every last member of the horde if they had the chance? Any good reason apart from 'morals' that are as fleeting as a fart in the breeze and abandoned whenever convenient?


Because Earth humans are not the same as Azeroth humans? Because Azeroth humans, with some exceptions, are righteous and honorable, while Earth humans have cultures you could put in place of essentially any other Azeroth race?

Or alternatively, if you want to say that Azeroth and Earth humans are the same, then Alliance has no moral high ground and can go stuff its holier than thou attitude.
Just the Orcs alone are way better in battle than the most races. (Hand to hand combat)

It was Broxigar who wounded Sargeras. Even in the books “war of the ancients” the orc could easly take several demons while an elf was struggling with one.

In plain hand to hand combat an Orc would easliy win.
Windsofwar and Gorthan - strength in combat sadly means very little when your entire city can be blasted from orbit by a dimensional warship.
24/12/2017 08:44Posted by Falliene
Windsofwar and Gorthan - strength in combat sadly means very little when your entire city can be blasted from orbit by a dimensional warship.


Nobody is nuking nobody from orbit, or is this game going to turn to World of Starcraft soon? With the Draenei and their tech clearly being just a silly rip-off of the Protoss in this case... I mean even the names Aiur and Argus are very similar after all... and i guess the Forsaken/Scourge could be the Zerg then...
24/12/2017 08:55Posted by Velsyana

Nobody is nuking nobody from orbit, or is this game going to turn to World of Starcraft soon? With the Draenei and their tech clearly being just a silly rip-off of the Protoss in this case... I mean even the names Aiur and Argus are very similar after all... and i guess the Forsaken/Scourge could be the Zerg then...

I'm not saying it's not silly - quite the contrary, I wholeheartedly agree. But it is part of canon now, and there's no going back on it. Right now, with their tech, I believe draenei are superpower in their own right. Their ships can simply obliterate things from up high, while common peasants shoot arrows at them and still can't reach them.

As silly as it is, it's canon, and only way to actually put weight on this conflict is to somehow cripple said tech. And no, Blingdicaar having to defend Azuremyst is not a way to cripple it - it's a friggin dimensional ship, it can teleport around and still be back at Exodar to defend it and have time to spare for a cup of tea.
24/12/2017 09:07Posted by Falliene
24/12/2017 08:55Posted by Velsyana

Nobody is nuking nobody from orbit, or is this game going to turn to World of Starcraft soon? With the Draenei and their tech clearly being just a silly rip-off of the Protoss in this case... I mean even the names Aiur and Argus are very similar after all... and i guess the Forsaken/Scourge could be the Zerg then...

I'm not saying it's not silly - quite the contrary, I wholeheartedly agree. But it is part of canon now, and there's no going back on it. Right now, with their tech, I believe draenei are superpower in their own right. Their ships can simply obliterate things from up high, while common peasants shoot arrows at them and still can't reach them.

As silly as it is, it's canon, and only way to actually put weight on this conflict is to somehow cripple said tech. And no, Blingdicaar having to defend Azuremyst is not a way to cripple it - it's a friggin dimensional ship, it can teleport around and still be back at Exodar to defend it and have time to spare for a cup of tea.


Yep. It's just lazy writing. Even if they did somehow cripple the Vindicaar - which they don't do, since we know it's used as the 'home base' of the Lightforged - that doesn't get rid of all the other technology the Draenei have, and it would be an obvious "We wrote ourselves into a corner so here's an implausible way the Horde can defeat the Alliance", just like every Horde victory in Cata.

This is why I never wanted another faction conflict. This is why I hate the idea that the Nightborne join the Horde. This is why the Void Elves are just incredibly silly and out of place. So much effort has to go into justifying why things are going the way they are, instead of just letting the story progress in a logical direction. It's bad writing at its worst, and no amount of suspension of disbelief will make me think it's anything other than shallow and lame.
I agree with Falliene.

The Draenei are the race with powers in their own right. Between their powerful Priests and Vindicators and their Magi, they are true power houses of the Alliance. Just because their might be fewer Draenei Magi than their are Priests or Paladins, doesn't mean we can just count them out.
Draenei Mages do exist and adding the Lightforged Magi to Exodar's defence is only enhancing their wide array of specialties.

Also, unlike the Shen'dralar Highborne, the Draenei have always been keeping up-to-date on the Arcane and using up-to-date forms of magic. Whereas the Shen'dralar have been living in the stone ages (quite literally) and their use of magic is proof of that, since the Blood Elves easily bested them.

Mac'Aree displays just how powerful the Eredar were and they certainly triumph over the Elves. As mentioned, the Draenei never forgot the Arcane - they kept using it and didn't fall behind. Some did become weary of it, but unlike the Night Elves, the use of Arcane Magic was never frowned upon and Draenei Arcanists were allowed to resume their studies and become greater and not fall behind, like the Shen'dralar.

Zin'Azshari, Suramar, Eldre'Thalas (in it's prime day), Silvermoon - none of these Highborne cities compare to the Magi cities of the Eredar.
24/12/2017 05:45Posted by Vikverjar
Really? You do know the human race has dropped atomic bombs on two major cities, mass exterminated native americans and jews, as well as other ethnic cleansings, cultural 'revolutions' and a lot of other things that fills decent people with horror? Why wouldn't they exterminate every last member of the horde if they had the chance? Any good reason apart from 'morals' that are as fleeting as a fart in the breeze and abandoned whenever convenient?


Maybe, uhm, because Earth Humans are not the same as the Stormwindian Humans from Azeroth?

24/12/2017 08:19Posted by Gorthane
I'm just going to assume you're an idiot, it's a well known fact that Tauren are one of the strongest races on azeroth, let alone in the horde


Don't bother posting a valid and clear source, you're reported and ignored for toxicity.
23/12/2017 21:54Posted by Mails
I would say Alliance. The Blood Elves are very few in number and so are the Nightborne. None of them come close to the Highborne and the Draenei in terms of magical power
I love how you say the blood elvs and nightborne are so few in number yet the Draenei who have been chased off two planets and been at the forefront of our invasion to Argus are ignored.

What do you think the space cows breed like bunnies?
24/12/2017 10:59Posted by Koradan
23/12/2017 21:54Posted by Mails
I would say Alliance. The Blood Elves are very few in number and so are the Nightborne. None of them come close to the Highborne and the Draenei in terms of magical power
I love how you say the blood elvs and nightborne are so few in number yet the Draenei who have been chased off two planets and been at the forefront of our invasion to Argus are ignored.

What do you think the space cows breed like bunnies?


At the same time, the Sin'dorei are merely 9% of the original Quel'dorei population, and will lose another percentage of their population with the Ren'dorei.

The Nightborne are the inhabitants of part of the ancient metropolis of Suramar (modern-day Suramar is merely a part of the original Suramar City). Add to that the fact that several Nightborne joined Elisande and were subsequently killed, and many Nightborne who did not follow Elisande were tortured and murdered by the Legion.
The tauren are one of the most physically powerful races on Azeroth, Cairne Bloodhoof was said to be able to uproot a great tree with just his bare hands alone.

It is possible to believe that Baine would be able to do the same or more considering he is far younger than his father, appearing to be in his prime, not to shoot down Cairne at all beacause even the author of the duel between Garrosh and Cairne said that if it had not been for the poison then Cairne would have beaten Garrosh.

Tauren are also amongst the greatest hunters of the world, the tradition of the great hunt has pushed their expertiese very far, compareable to even a centuries old Night elf with the same skills.

When it comes to druidism it is very debateable who is better at it but I see both sides being quite equal in this field, Malfurion keeps himself neautral most of the time so.

In Shamanism the horde has the advantage as their connection with the Spirits is far stronger, not to say there aren't many great Draenei shaman out there but shamanism in the horde is way more of a tradition and more well taught and practised.

The Orcs we know them well by this point, they are good frontline fighters. good at rallying their soldiers and battlefield strategy when they aren't in a deep berserker rage, orcs on average are stronger than humans, id say that only the Draenei match them outright, though a point kan be made for very big worgen or very stout dwarves.

Goblins are quite smart and very much insane by their very nature to get more cash, their inventions have gotten better over the years and almost rival the filthy gnomes, but Goblins do have an advantage over the gnomes, Goblins are alot stronger than their stature would assume them to be, Goblin guards and bruisers can bash enemies into submission with hammers or just shoot them.

The Draenei are basically the greatest sorcerers in the universe, having studied the art for over 25k years, no getting around this, the other races are basically chasing their tails.

When it comes to rogues, well the Forsaken employ the Death Stalkers, the deadliest assassins in the world, they have no need for food, rest or sleep and can even pose as corpses on the battlefield, they can stay submerged forever considering they do not breathe.

In physical strenght the Horde outright beats the Alliance but the Alliance has many other advantages as does the Horde in other areas, in the end I would say that both sides cancel each other out.
24/12/2017 11:28Posted by Apatha
Malfurion keeps himself neautral most of the time so.


Yes, i also think he will be written off the story since he would pose a challenge to the producers' pet.

24/12/2017 11:28Posted by Apatha
In Shamanism the horde has the advantage as their connection with the Spirits is far stronger, not to say there aren't many great Draenei shaman out there but shamanism in the horde is way more of a tradition and more well taught and practised.


People are forgetting that Shamanism is an ancient tradition within the Wildhammer Clan.

24/12/2017 11:28Posted by Apatha
orcs on average are stronger than humans


Yes, source?

24/12/2017 11:28Posted by Apatha
Goblins are alot stronger than their stature would assume them to be, Goblin guards and bruisers can bash enemies into submission with hammers or just shoot them.


Could you possibly provide a valid source for that?

24/12/2017 11:28Posted by Apatha
well the Forsaken employ the Death Stalkers, the deadliest assassins in the world


Source?

In Legion, in fact, it is stated in a quest that the SI:7 is the most elite spy organization on the planet.
Its specially hilarious that most of the arguments used by some posters are based around their own speculation, and some "deductive" thinking, but they dismiss the actual events that happened ingame as worthless when debating these sort of things. Cataclysm apparently wasn't canon.

24/12/2017 11:28Posted by Apatha
The Draenei are basically the greatest sorcerers in the universe, having studied the art for over 25k years, no getting around this, the other races are basically chasing their tails.


You know, up to Legion i would've agreed with this. Like, 100%.

Thing is Mac'aree debunked it.
We can see what happened to those excellent arcane users. They were abducted by the Legion in a similar way as Archimonde.

They rest became priests or general Light users under Velen. Hatuun survived because they learned a different kind of shamanism, but the rest of the arcane users, turned into Warlocks or died.

Again, i doubt anyone can name a relevant, powerful Draenei mage currently ingame.
Draenei Magi:

Draenei have always been natural magic users. When aboard the Oshu'gun for long journeys the draenei had plenty of hours to study and practise magic. They are one of the oldest races in the universe and therefore have had a lot of time to research and improve their knowledge of the arcane arts. Since they have had so much knowledge passed down and live such long lives to practise it, the draenei are among the most powerful mages in the known universe.

We don't need to name anyone because any one being doesn't always reflect the power of that whole race. I could quite easily say the Naga are the best Magic users because they have Queen Azshara who is considered the best Azerothian Mage to have ever lived, but this is a false view.

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