Genn's forgivness.

Story
I don't like Greymane. Why? Because he was a coward back in the day. Gilneas did almost not support the Alliance during the second war (all they did was to send token support, and to show how "superior" they are). My real dislike comes from what Genn did, to the refuges from Lordaeron. He did not even let them into his kingdom, which let them be butchered by the scourge. So he was ironically directly responsible, for creating some of today's forsaken.

Varian brought it up exactly once. But hey they slew a beast together so besties? Uagh. Jaina never mentioned anything, even tough she lived a long time in Lordaeron. But the thing I don't get. Many Alliance players are perfectly cool with him.

Some don't like his lust for revenge, and how he trows soldiers lives away, even from other races. Understandably so. But no one seems to have a problem with him, acting as a advisor to Anduin (next to Velen). No one seems to have a problem with his history. At least the view survivors from Lordaeron, should really dislike him.

My question is: Why does no one care, what a horrible leader Genn was. Lordaeron has many fans, they were also the human kingdom I liked the most of them. So why don't fans of Lordaeron hate Genn?

Don't even try to explain this with Pandaran forgiveness.
18/01/2018 14:06Posted by Qulzan
So why don't fans of Lordaeron not hate Genn
We do, him and his entire cursed dog breed.

We, the citizens of Lordaeron. The Forsaken.
As Beher said, in lore, my character hates quite a lot Genn and Gilneas. Their pride lead to them not giving a !@#$ about Lordaeron when it was been destroyed by the scourge. They had a wall, why should they care about innocent people butchered?
So for me, it was quite an irony they didn't try to defend Lordaeron and its population against the scourge, just to be invaded later by the same population, now turned undead. Just a shame you couldn't do the initial worgen quests as a forsaken.
But off-lore, even if he is a prick, I really like Genn. He is proud, bitter and full of hate, part indeed agaisnt himself for not being able to save his kingdom and his son.
Its one of the most realistic character the alliance has, because he has, as any person in the real world, good and bad traits.
He is one of the few grey characters in the Alliance, so I hope they keep him around, and we got some new ones as well.
18/01/2018 14:37Posted by Deathskullk
Its one of the most realistic character the alliance has, because he has, as any person in the real world, good and bad traits.


Agree. He's a realistic character. He's human (well he's a worgen, but has very human traits, which are both good and bad).

But I personally find a discrepancy, if he lusts for revenge so much, why is he not doing anything about it? Rather, why is he not continuing with definite actions?
A realistic development would be him to be more open and commit extreme and unreasonable military acts against Sylvanas, maybe taking big risks.

On the contrary, he seems quite calm at the moment. Does he feel his son is avenged?

Or it's just Blizzard's...."writing" and they don't know what to do with him?
I don't like Greymane. Why? Because he was a coward back in the day. Gilneas did almost not support the Alliance during the second war (all they did was to send token support, and to show how "superior" they are). My real dislike comes from what Gen did, to the refuges from Lordaeron. He did not even let them into his kingdom, which let them be butchered by the scourge. So he was ironically directly responsible, for creating some of today's forsaken.


I honestly agree but the creation of the Worgen basically changed his character completely. They should have killed him and new the new leader his son or Crowley to avoid a character 180 but that ship has sailed.

The New Greymane is a good enough character but he is vastly different to the old one.
Well agreed, it is human.

18/01/2018 14:47Posted by Ternezia
Or it's just Blizzard's...."writing" and they don't know what to do with him?


Good question. I read somwehre, they don't really know what to do with te Alliance. But don't take a word, of somthing I cant even source for it. Migth have ben utter rubbish.

We will see in BfA how it goes. I think they will show, whch way Genn will go and what he now want's, or thinks.

Edit:

18/01/2018 14:51Posted by Kelastra
They should have killed him and new the new leader his son or Crowley to avoid a character 180 but that ship has sailed.


I'm not sure about killing him off back then. But his son could have made an interessting Character. Crowly had also potential to be a good shady character.
Genn Greymane is quite possibly the best character in WoW at the moment. He is a bitter, remorsefull, vengeful, alcoholic ( I seem to remember that from somewhere) who has suffered the worst tragedy a father can, having to bury his son, an absolute aberration of the natural order of things. He lost almost everything, and has nothing but his hate, and desire for vengeance.

And yet....

And yet... He is slowly changing. His own Son, Liam, was slain, taking a bullet meant for him. Such a wound to ones soul is almost impossible to conceive. He becomes friends with King Varian, after a rocky start. and now that Varian is dead, he seems to be almost like a not declared father figure to Anduin.

Look at the Cinematic recently. Mattias Shaw turns up, he doesn't go to Anduin, he goes to Genn "I need to talk to him....Now" Genn grunts and nods. Look at Anduin when Shaw holds his hand with the Azerite in. He looks at Genn, who nods, and only then does he take what Shaw has.

There is a clear foster parent/child dynamic going on there, and I think it is great!

It is good character development for both of them. Genn gets some beautiful moments. Some thought it cheesy, but personally I loved that line "You took my Son's future...Now, I've taken yours". I mean we're talking Greek tragedy pathos levels there.

Another thing I've noticed, and this probably -is- me reading too much into it, but I am attracted to symbolism in media, But...

Look at the Legion Cinematic, Genn, in human form, reaching down with his hand, to grab Varian and help him up the rope ladder. Genn gives him the letter for Anduin, and drops onto the Fel Reaver.
Look at the BfA Cinematic, Anduin is dropped by Saurfang, Genn, in Worgen form reaching down with his hand, to grab Anduin and help him up to his feet, only to be hit by Zappy Boi.

He reaches down for Father and Son, and both times fails to help them. Neither time his fault.. Just like he could not save his own Son.

Like I say, I may be reading too much into that, probably am, but that seems to be Genn's theme. And I love the glorious grouch for it.
Genn is our saviour. We might never know how many lives he saved by smashing that lantern.
Wait a minute... *sniff sniff* I smell something... could this be? *sniiifff* No, impossible, after all this time? *sniff sniff* Hold on... *sniiifff* hmmm... so this is it.

I smell salt. A lot of it.

Still mad that Genn did the right thing and spoiled your elven cadaver of a warchief her prize?
Sorry Worgen, all my salt is reserved for everyting Troll related. Nothig to be found here. ;)
18/01/2018 15:57Posted by Däkär
Wait a minute... *sniff sniff* I smell something... could this be? *sniiifff* No, impossible, after all this time? *sniff sniff* Hold on... *sniiifff* hmmm... so this is it. I smell salt. A lot of it.


You must be reading a different thread. Try responding to this one instead?

18/01/2018 15:57Posted by Däkär
Still mad that Genn did the right thing and spoiled your elven cadaver of a warchief her prize?


Umm, No?

I mean literally no one mentioned that until you did?

Grow up.
The worst thing about it all, is when his Wall was breached and finally, the Forsaken came to finish what the Scourge didn't bother to, namely killing them.
And sure, I get that he's mad about his sons death, but ingame in the cinematics, people who don't know all the facts, actually believes that Genn Greymane is a good guy. Since the cinematic in Stormheim paints him in that way.

But he started it, Gilneas is uninhabitable for their King's past choices, and either it's Greymane himself, the Boy-King Anduin or someone in his inner circle who's gonna spread the shadow corruption there. It has most likely even begun, mark my words.
Alleria is a likely subject, since I believe she might actually be a future boss in the final raid of BfA, along with Locus-Walker.
18/01/2018 16:53Posted by Ernstx
people who don't know all the facts, actually believes that Genn Greymane is a good guy. Since the cinematic in Stormheim paints him in that way.


Or you know, he is a well written character with understandable changes and realistic motivation.

18/01/2018 16:53Posted by Ernstx
But he started it, Gilneas is uninhabitable for their King's past choices


Woah, the land of make believe!
What surprises me is that nobody ever brings up the fact that it's Genn, who is responsible for his people's curse. And only a relatively small number of people afflicted with it didn't go feral.

Sadly, the game doesn't really bring up the downsides to the Worgen curse, or the downsides to being a Death Knight, or a Demon Hunter, so I guess that's the reason he got away scot-free with it.
18/01/2018 15:17Posted by Brigante
There is a clear foster parent/child dynamic going on there, and I think it is great!


Makes sense. Quite.

Though I personally find this cheesy and I'd prefer to see a very different Genn, a person filled with a lot of pain, sorrow and desire for revenge, but who is cunning enough to suppress all this and wait for the right moment to serve his revenge cold, but once and for all. And who is using Anduin for his goals. Him sincerely pampering Anduin...makes him too feminine.

But we will see.
You guys bringing up all these flaws just makes me love Greymane more and more.What an awesome character !! :D
Hell i might just roll a Worgen now.....
18/01/2018 18:21Posted by Ternezia
18/01/2018 15:17Posted by Brigante
There is a clear foster parent/child dynamic going on there, and I think it is great!


Makes sense. Quite.

Though I personally find this cheesy and I'd prefer to see a very different Genn, a person filled with a lot of pain, sorrow and desire for revenge, but who is cunning enough to suppress all this and wait for the right moment to serve his revenge cold, but once and for all. And who is using Anduin for his goals. Him sincerely pampering Anduin...makes him too feminine.

But we will see.


I think he's trying to replace Liam with Anduin and it seems to be helping him contain his rage.But he's definitely not gonna let Sylvanas be.He'll try to kill her again at some point.This guy is quickly becoming one of the best characters in Warcraft.
18/01/2018 18:32Posted by Raghnar

I think he's trying to replace Liam with Anduin and it seems to be helping him contain his rage.But he's definitely not gonna let Sylvanas be.He'll try to kill her again at some point.This guy is quickly becoming one of the best characters in Warcraft.


To help keep his inner beast in control, yes, very cool idea, I like this.
But I'd like it even more if he uses Anduin as puppet :P
18/01/2018 18:12Posted by Veristeras
What surprises me is that nobody ever brings up the fact that it's Genn, who is responsible for his people's curse. And only a relatively small number of people afflicted with it didn't go feral.

Sadly, the game doesn't really bring up the downsides to the Worgen curse, or the downsides to being a Death Knight, or a Demon Hunter, so I guess that's the reason he got away scot-free with it.

It's not Genn's fault that Arugal either lied, or was ignorant as the Worgen being uncontrollable. The Scourge were literally knocking at the gates and the alternative was becoming another Lordaeron/Dalaran. It came at an unforeseen cost, but it did work in saving Gilneas.

Worgen Curse does need some actual downsides though.
I don't dislike him like one dislikes Jar Jar Binks who actually hurts the plot, I dislike him like one dislikes Joffrey Baratheon. He's a very well written character but still a scumbag. Greymane is a well written character but he's not a good guy.

I also can't really dislike him for what he did years ago. I can relate to making mistakes that you later on admit were majorly idiotic and without sense. We're humans, mistakes happen. Even huge ones. Let me quote from one of my favourite games of all time:

"We all make mistakes. Some are large. Some are small. But his mistake, born of innocence, fueled by pride was the greatest and most terrible of them all."

- Kaileena, Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones.

I think it fits perfectly.
But back on subject, no, I do not hate him because of the Greymane Wall. I hat ehim because there's a freaking demon invasion going on and all he's doing is attacking an azerothian fleet that was looking to get an advantage against the invasion. He's also jumping into conclusions about the Broken Shore without even at least sending an envoy to ask 'wtf dude I thought you were covering us' so Sylvanas can explain her retreat. Like, come on, did you guys ever hear of freaking communication? Sylvanas knows bloody common, she was a high elf! It's ridiculous they're still using one single easily cleared misunderstanding for the Alliance's reason for aggression. And they keep pushing Genn's hatred towards the whole faction because of that. I understand perfectly well his disdain against the Forsaken and Sylvanas, they did after all conquer his lands and killed his son and heir but the Horde? What's up with that??

So after my little rant is over, to summarize, I think he's a very well written character but there are a few huge mistakes in his character development but WoW has worse characters by far (Anduin cough cough) so while I dislike him as a loyal forsaken and Horde player, I do like his arch from a neutral point of view.

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