Mythic Raiding Newbie

Dungeons & Raids
Hey,

So I started raiding mythic Antorus on a different character, and I can't help but wonder, why is this fun?

I literally go in with no preparation at all, and within a maximum of 5 pulls, I understand the fight well enough to perform my role and function. I'm a melee DPS in the raids and a rather immobile one at that so admittedly I'm not doing much other than soaking what I need to soak and killing what I need to kill.

Yet, I feel certain that I could go into another class and do just as well; now I'm barely making green parses even in heroic so I'm by no means great, but in spite of that I'm able to maintain my raid spot as there is noticeable improvement in my performance each time, but I don't understand why, folks who's dps far outclasses mine can't seem to get the basics of the fight right which, more often than not, causes wipes.

I understand that they are likely greeding on DPS which is why they're topping the meters, but why do that and sacrifice the kill my not doing a certain something and then causing a wipe?

It's my belief that performing mechanics is far more important than pushing numbers, and the reason for that is that, even if you're able to do 10 million DPS, it's all useless if you don't soak something, or stack when you should, or don't move away from everyone when you have to. I'm told that this is belief is wrong, and I don't understand why.

Overall I find mythic to be more irritating than fun, and while I do enjoy the challenge of it, I don't understand why we have to spend 4 hours a night wiping on a single boss before everyone can do what they need to do in order to secure a kill.

Antorus is my first tier raiding mythic; I raided Hellfire Citadel mythic but it was more like getting carried than actual raiding, but from what I've seen, I don't understand the allure of mythic. Can someone educate me?
Once you start reaching the hard bosses (and this tier only has one), you actually need to start doing decent DPS while also executing mechanics.

Personally, I enjoy mythic because of those kinds of bosses.
improving your playstyle on a boss, aka trying tto min-max your dps, is a risk vs reward deal. At first the risk outweighs the reward by far, since it will often llead to wipes, but once the understanding of what goes and what does not grows, the risks shrinks smaller and smaller. Simple trials and error, that every dps has to do for himself / talk aboutt with others of his spec, to see if it's possible.

btw i also kind of like, how this reads, as if you actually had killed at leastt one mythic boss already, and yet your armory doesn't show a single achivement. Same for your claim
05/02/2018 21:12Posted by Hakuteiken
raided Hellfire Citadel mythic

Your account doesn't have a single HfC mythic acm on it, according to the armory.

But hey, i guess that's not part of my buisness anymore
The reason you don't see much of it, is because this tier(Antorus) is too easy. Mythic raiding is for people that are good at the game, knows what they are doing, and wishes to have encoutners that punishes the slightest mistake by having to use raid cooldowns or just flat out die.

As much this is what makes a tier good, that you can minmax without fearing wipes, it's just come down to nothing is dangerous. The first few bosses are always a joke. Most decent(top500'ish) end up clearing them in under 5 pulls.

However in antorus the first real ''wall'' which we call a boss you'll be on for a decent time. Is Aggramar. IMO the first 9 are an utter joke that offer's no challenge. They are fights where I can do 1/10th of my sim DPS and it'll still die in time. Do that on agg and you just die to healers running oom.

Compared to lets say ToS, We had a total of 4 walls pre nerfs, and 3 post nerfs. Mistress, control adds, hydra shots are strong. You needed perfect coordination, Maiden, perfect coordination or die. Avatar, everything is a monster to deal with. 1 !@#$up and bye. Kj same as ava

Now in antorus. uhmm.. uhmmm.. I guess not soaking flame rend/losing cc on agg, cant think of anything hard before that. It's a shame. Mythic should be about having to min max your dps whilst doing mechanics flawlessly, and not the %^-*show we have of doing every trap on mythic imonar, and soaking 2 boldes.
06/02/2018 02:17Posted by Varileztra
btw i also kind of like, how this reads, as if you actually had killed at leastt one mythic boss already, and yet your armory doesn't show a single achivement. Same for your claim
Not on this character no, but on the character I'm raiding mythic on I'm 3/11.

06/02/2018 02:17Posted by Varileztra
Your account doesn't have a single HfC mythic acm on it, according to the armory.
The Armory seems slow to update; my mage, Cuddlewaffle@Kazzak was the character that I did HFC mythic on; got up to Gorefiend.
Well, casual Mythic raiding is always a balance between not having enough people and people being too bad to have on. Most raid teams have one or two people where you just shrug when they die *again* to something simple, but unless decently geared subsitutes line up in the application area you cannot replace them easily.

On the other hand: Playing mechanics is an important part, but delivering the damage is also important. Sure, some bosses don't have a punishing timer, but healer mana is limited and a 10min fight needs a lot more concentration than one of 4.

If you feel your talents are unappreciated you could apply to a better guild, but right now that would also mean skipping all progress.
07/02/2018 08:18Posted by Hakuteiken
The Armory seems slow to update; my mage, Cuddlewaffle@Kazzak was the character that I did HFC mythic on; got up to Gorefiend.


all HFC achivements up to archimond on a single day. :thinking:
No worries, i don't judge

but at least you prove me wrong onn the antorus part
05/02/2018 21:12Posted by Hakuteiken
I understand that they are likely greeding on DPS which is why they're topping the meters, but why do that and sacrifice the kill my not doing a certain something and then causing a wipe?

If your guild hasn't progressed far then that's probably why.

The way I like to progress fights is pretty simple; tactics first, dps second. Obviously try and do as much as you can regardless but if you aren't paying attention to the fight then you'll die, as you've seen.
07/02/2018 12:36Posted by Ograshuk
If you feel your talents are unappreciated you could apply to a better guild, but right now that would also mean skipping all progress.
It's not that; if anything I feel out of my league playing with the team I have but the raid leader seems to think I'm doing decently enough to include me, on a regular basis, for mythic.

The problem is that I never had any interest in doing mythic raiding, and having done it so far, my initial ambivalence seems well founded; it's not fun for me, and I don't enjoy it. Wiping 50 times a night on one boss feels like the most colossal waste of time.

07/02/2018 14:33Posted by Varileztra
all HFC achivements up to archimond on a single day. :thinking:
No worries, i don't judge
Oh, that was a boost that a friend paid gold for since he and I boosted characters the same day.

07/02/2018 14:37Posted by Akuren
tactics first, dps second
That's kind of how I play the game as a general rule. Though I'm told that DPS > mechanics every time, and that every serious mythic raid leader will take people who do DPS over someone who can meet the checks and do mechanics flawlessly.
08/02/2018 12:18Posted by Hakuteiken

07/02/2018 14:37Posted by Akuren
tactics first, dps second
That's kind of how I play the game as a general rule. Though I'm told that DPS > mechanics every time, and that every serious mythic raid leader will take people who do DPS over someone who can meet the checks and do mechanics flawlessly.


Whoever told you that has no idea what they're talking about
08/02/2018 12:33Posted by Narcind
Whoever told you that has no idea what they're talking about
Funny enough; he's a guy with mythic raid lead experience for several expansions. He's run top10 server guilds in mythic raids. I don't have names or details though, and I can't get in touch with him right now, but that's what he says anyway.
08/02/2018 14:32Posted by Hakuteiken
08/02/2018 12:33Posted by Narcind
Whoever told you that has no idea what they're talking about
Funny enough; he's a guy with mythic raid lead experience for several expansions. He's run top10 server guilds in mythic raids. I don't have names or details though, and I can't get in touch with him right now, but that's what he says anyway.


I would not trust that if he claims what you say he does ;-)

My old raidleader (I raided semi hardcore from TBC until Cata) always said: A dead DPS doesn't do DPS :P

So ye handle the mechanics and push dps as much as you can while you handle the mechanics
08/02/2018 14:32Posted by Hakuteiken
08/02/2018 12:33Posted by Narcind
Whoever told you that has no idea what they're talking about
Funny enough; he's a guy with mythic raid lead experience for several expansions. He's run top10 server guilds in mythic raids. I don't have names or details though, and I can't get in touch with him right now, but that's what he says anyway.


Top 10 server means literal nothing, that could range anywhere from world rank 5000 to 250, and even in top 250 guilds, leadership/management is probably the biggest reason why they're only top 250, and not better.

The only time DPS matters is if it lets you skip certain timings/overlaps of abilities, or if you're hitting an enrage timer. If neither of those are the reason why you're wiping, doing mechanics properly is infinitely more important than doing high DPS.
08/02/2018 15:03Posted by Gnometroll
A dead DPS doesn't do DPS
That's what I said xD I said that I'd rather do mechanics properly and the bare minimum of DPS required than 10M dps but shyt on mechanics.

08/02/2018 16:27Posted by Narcind
If neither of those are the reason why you're wiping, doing mechanics properly is infinitely more important than doing high DPS.
In many cases it seems that we're wiping because people aren't doing mechanics properly; failing to soak properly on Garothi, sitting on the wrong FelHound, padding on trash mobs instead of priority targets on Eonar...
Casual guilds usually take anyone they can get, even socials and new/less good players. This late into the tier dps doesn't matter, there are no dps checks on the majority of bosses in Antorus, so better to have a low dps that stays alive until the end.

Mythic raiding to me is fun because I want to heal new, challenging stuff. As soon as progress is over it feels useless since I don't care about gear, especially not in this expansion with all the titanforging.

You have to find your reason for it to be fun. Gear, titles, logs, just being on progress together with your guild? If you can't find any good motivation it's no point in continuing.
The problem is that I never had any interest in doing mythic raiding, and having done it so far, my initial ambivalence seems well founded; it's not fun for me, and I don't enjoy it. Wiping 50 times a night on one boss feels like the most colossal waste of time.

Well, then don't.
I feel a greater sense of achievement if i have worked for my kill. And 50 is nothing.
09/02/2018 08:28Posted by Ograshuk
Well, then don't.
Ah, but I was told, in no uncertain terms, that if I didn't want to do mythic, I would get literally no gear from heroic unless absolutely no-one else needed it, and since the raid leader is looking at phasing out heroic runs altogether at this point, it seems to me it would be unlikely that I'd have received any gear from heroic.

So while I understand; gearing up the players that actually want to do mythic does make sense, because he's considering phasing heroic out I don't think that, if I had said I wasn't interested in mythic, I would have been getting gear up to now, and certainly not likely to get gear going forward if he's thinking of phasing heroic out.

So you see I had to say that I was interested. It may be awfully self serving, but my character is 957 ilvl and it's still among the lowest geared anyway. Without gear from heroic, given this DK and my aforementioned Mage, I know I'd likely be around 940 ilvl instead, but actually, even that's enough for heroic.

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