BFA: Why Not to be Negative

Story
Alright so BFA isn’t even out yet and the forum is imploding with people complaining about data-mined dialogue and who is the ‘aggressor’ and why the story has gone to sh*t etc, when I have to say; Am I the only one excited for this?

First of all let me just address elephant in the room. There are no ‘good guys’ between the Horde and the Alliance. If you legitimately think one faction is then you frankly need to go and educate yourself on the lore. Sure, there are bad guys within the factions but they aren’t Sylvanas or Greymane or Nathanos. These characters are morally grey, which is a good thing! Grey is complexity, grey is interesting. You really want to line up behind a whiter than white knight of peace and justice and love? Then you probably shouldn’t play a game with war in the title, but that’s none of my business…

I can already hear minds exploding at my saying Sylvanas is not a bad girl and before you go full keyboard warrior of rage I invite you to actually think about the character and her mind set. First of all, She’s dead so she not all about love and peace, she’s about cold hard facts of reality. She also didn’t keel over recently and no one noticed, she’s been like this for a while now. Yet despite this Vol’Jin made her warchief, he even tells her at that time that he never trusted her but the spirits have given him clarity to see that she must be the next Warchief. By Spirits it is assumed he meant the Loa, who can see through time and see far more than mortals (Ref; Paragons - The Judgment). Jumping tracks momentarily, Varian was pretty damn confident when he said he would end the Horde if they so much as sneezed at the Alliance again. I think most of us already suspected that in terms of raw military power the Alliance is stronger than the Horde. If there were a conflict the only way they would stand a chance is if they can out-strategise the Alliance. Sylvanas was the General of Silvermoon, a faction that saw constant war, she has much more moral flexibility than any other faction leader (save perhaps Gallywix), more battle experience than even Tyrande or Velen (most of their lives have been lived in peace!) and intimate understanding of several of the opposing factions style of warfare. She is hands down the best choice for warchief only if there was certain to be a conflict and it’s because of all of these reasons, you can’t cherry pick your favourites and try to deny the others.

This all being the case Sylvanas is about to go and do things her way and a lot of people are going to disagree with the ethics of it, including her own faction. This again totally makes sense, many, if not all, have seen what happened when a bloodthirsty hothead takes control and older members of the horde have seen worse still. But Sylvanas is the opposite of a hot head, she practically has ice running through her veins, which is precisely why she can make the decision they can’t. Heck from the look of the forum, the decisions that we as a community couldn’t. But for the horde to endure, it is the only way to fight an enemy that will defeat them in open warfare. Battle of the Undercity may well yet prove this to be exactly the case.

If War was not certain then it would make no sense for Vol’jin, who actively disliked Sylvanas, to pick her for the role, but by this time things were already in motion, they cannot be undone with diplomacy because everyone is bringing their own prejudices to the table as was evident in the end cutscene of Stormheim. Greymane was acting on orders but his motivation was shown to be his own. As easy as it would be to pin it on him, every faction leader is the same. Andiun is probably the biggest advocate for peace left alive but has to be asking himself “what if the Horde didn’t retreat” I could go through each faction leader but I imagine you can all think of everyone’s motivation. In this way the story as it is presently the situation between the factions is only going to deteriorate, it’s just a question of who creates the spark that ignites the conflict.

Que the term ‘aggressor’. I have to say this is also an absurd terminology that has little relevance and does not merit arguing about. It seems pretty clear that each faction is taking actions (each feels it needs to) that are provoking each other, so by definition they are both the ‘aggressor’ as for who drew first blood, I would say the Horde, about 30-40 years ago when they invaded Azeroth. It kind of hasn’t really stopped since then, sure there are peaks and troughs of conflict, there are times the factions are declared at peace but there has always been a fierce competition between the factions that is either violence by nature or became violent. At this point it’s as predictable as the tide, its ebb and its flow.

I have gone on for long enough to get my point across I suspect so I just want to close with; The expansion seems to be about the escalation of events between the Horde and the Alliance. In it we are going to see character development, conflict and, I suspect, many things that will spark these forums with debate. Just try not to judge it before it is even out.

I hope this helps some folks get their thoughts in line and doesn’t just trigger people. I genuinely mean this as a way of showing an alternate point of view that, hopefully, makes some people feel a bit more optimistic, perhaps even excited like me.

-

P.S – Just as a disclaimer really. I love the banter between factions, so while sometimes I might say Graymane is a bad guy or that “this faction is right” that’s just a bit of faction pride. For myself that’s a large part of why the Horde and the Alliance as separate factions is still important, it’s a part of every WoW player’s core identity, it is the first question you ask when you meet someone out in the real world who plays after all.
wall of text hits you for 99895892342 damage .....

good, evil it don't matter this would must be purged! for the Crusade ....
Ok, my two cents about this.

From the Horde point of view: I’m hyped.

Yes, I’m hyped about the journey, about getting to know the different ways the Horde high command gets to deal with the war. How the new allied races see the Horde in action and how the different collectives give free reign to their bitterness and personal vendettas against their enemies.
I want to see Lor’themar and Thalyssra unleash the magical power of their people against their enemies, I want to see the goblin and the Forsaken push their own twisted agendas while fighting against the Alliance, and I want to see the rest of the Horde pushed to its limits and engage against their enemies, swords drawn and spells blazing.
Yes, I’m hyped about the journey....but I’m not that enthusiast about the outcome.
Why? Because Blizzard doesn’t know how to tackle a satisfactory outcome for a factional conflict and work on something that doesn’t devolve into the Horde being the bad guys and the Alliance being the good guys. And that’s SoO again.
Sure, Sylvanas isn’t the kind of Warchief one wants around for a long time....but she is an iconic figure that I DONT want to get killed.

From the Alliance point of view:
Quite the opposite of what I said for the Horde.

The journey is going to suuuuuuck.
It’s heralded by some major night elf loses, and the rest of the plot is so human centric that we have on one hand the featuring stars for the Horde story being an orc, a troll and an undead lady, while the Alliance ones are human, human and human.
Anduin takes the lead, Jaina returns to her homeland, and Genn gets some paternalistic instinct kicking in and gets a relevant role counselling the Boy King. Yaay....another human plot incoming.
The only ‘climatic’ part of the story told so far, is the fact that they seem to be heading to the same ending as Pandaria: they get to be all morally righteous.
15/02/2018 15:39Posted by Zarao
Ok, my two cents about this.

From the Horde point of view: I’m hyped.

Yes, I’m hyped about the journey, about getting to know the different ways the Horde high command gets to deal with the war. How the new allied races see the Horde in action and how the different collectives give free reign to their bitterness and personal vendettas against their enemies.
I want to see Lor’themar and Thalyssra unleash the magical power of their people against their enemies, I want to see the goblin and the Forsaken push their own twisted agendas while fighting against the Alliance, and I want to see the rest of the Horde pushed to its limits and engage against their enemies, swords drawn and spells blazing.
Yes, I’m hyped about the journey....but I’m not that enthusiast about the outcome.
Why? Because Blizzard doesn’t know how to tackle a satisfactory outcome for a factional conflict and work on something that doesn’t devolve into the Horde being the bad guys and the Alliance being the good guys. And that’s SoO again.
Sure, Sylvanas isn’t the kind of Warchief one wants around for a long time....but she is an iconic figure that I DONT want to get killed.

From the Alliance point of view:
Quite the opposite of what I said for the Horde.

The journey is going to suuuuuuck.
It’s heralded by some major night elf loses, and the rest of the plot is so human centric that we have on one hand the featuring stars for the Horde story being an orc, a troll and an undead lady, while the Alliance ones are human, human and human.
Anduin takes the lead, Jaina returns to her homeland, and Genn gets some paternalistic instinct kicking in and gets a relevant role counselling the Boy King. Yaay....another human plot incoming.
The only ‘climatic’ part of the story told so far, is the fact that they seem to be heading to the same ending as Pandaria: they get to be all morally righteous.


You never liked the Alliance anyway though...just like I don't like either of the factions because -Shal'dorei are the best-
15/02/2018 15:43Posted by Valistri
You never liked the Alliance anyway though...


No. I like the Alliance races. Not the faction.

My favourite race for WC3 were the Night elves.

What I don’t like is the current writing the Alliance has. I don’t like how, and I quote Chris Metzen and Dave Kosak here, it has been written as the Captain America of WoW. And with humans as the leading role models.

That’s why a rather stick nowadays with the savage, and wild races like trolls or orcs. I don’t want to play as a purple human and settle for a bland and boring plot that glosses over the romantic relation of the night elf leaders whenever Blizzard aims for a ‘Night elf story’.
Seriously, they can go f**ck off with that kind of crap. I’ll stick to my noble savages (qualities Night elves should’ve kept from the rts games).

Ps: And let’s not derail the topic. I think Kixith had quite a few interesting points.
I'm only jesting. You should know that's the way I post.

Honestly..

Onto to topic, I'm looking forward to both factions' stories. Genn is one of my all time favorites, as is Thalyssra (although Lady Valtrois is my favorite of the 3 Shal'dorei heroes.)

I'm really looking forward to seeing what Azshara has to say for herself as well as seeing a confrontation between her and Tyrande and Thalyssra.

What I want to see is something that has always been prevalent when there's been a Blood Elf/High Elf story. That "tension" and "conflict" but willing to work together for the greater good. I can see this working well for the Kaldorei and Shal'dorei. Hopefully, it will be reflective of the Highborne/Lowborne hatred from the Empire days.
15/02/2018 15:39Posted by Zarao


From the Alliance point of view:
Quite the opposite of what I said for the Horde.

The journey is going to suuuuuuck.
It’s heralded by some major night elf loses, and the rest of the plot is so human centric that we have on one hand the featuring stars for the Horde story being an orc, a troll and an undead lady, while the Alliance ones are human, human and human.
Anduin takes the lead, Jaina returns to her homeland, and Genn gets some paternalistic instinct kicking in and gets a relevant role counselling the Boy King. Yaay....another human plot incoming.
The only ‘climatic’ part of the story told so far, is the fact that they seem to be heading to the same ending as Pandaria: they get to be all morally righteous.


You never liked the Alliance anywa-


I like (and Always been) Alliance, but i strongly agree whit Zarao.
Alliance is too much humancentric.
Cataclysm and MoP showed Blizzard have absolutely no idea how to write a Faction War. In the end, nobody came out of that mess satisfied. Alliance had two expansions of being Stupid Good and getting their arses kicked with a hollow, shoehorned 'victory' and the Horde got to feel like unredeamable bad guys suffering from bipolar disorder and then losing.

From what we've seen so far, there's no reason to assume BfA will be any different. Horde are already back in the Villain Protagonist seat, the MUH FIST PUMPIN' is already skewed towards the Horde (Horde infiltrate Stormwind, burn part of it down as well as Tendrassil whilst the Alliance fail to hold Undercity and get arrested by their supposed allies).
Shouldn't be the time that the Horde get their own "fist-pumps" (cit.) during an expansion based on faction conflict?

I mean, the last time Blizzard gave the Alliance two fist-pumps in one single expansion (MoP)..the Purge of Dalaran, and SoO.
15/02/2018 16:10Posted by Velsyana
Shouldn't be the time that the Horde get their own "fist-pumps" (cit.) during an expansion based on faction conflict?

I mean, the last time Blizzard gave the Alliance two fist-pumps in one single expansion (MoP)..the Purge of Dalaran, and SoO.


none of those was fist pumping moment more like face slapping moments the horde kept all the land they stole they got their cake and got to eat it too...
15/02/2018 16:10Posted by Velsyana
Shouldn't be the time that the Horde get their own "fist-pumps" (cit.) during an expansion based on faction conflict?

I mean, the last time Blizzard gave the Alliance two fist-pumps in one single expansion (MoP)..the Purge of Dalaran, and SoO.

Cataclysm was a string of losses for the Alliance and their only 'victories' were undermined by their own leaders being self-righteous cowards ("hurr we cant b as bad as the horde") and to top it all off, Theramore goes nuclear.

Dalaran stays Alliance for all of one expansion then goes Full Neutral again.

Meanwhile, the Horde kept everything it gained in Cataclysm and got to scapegoat Garrosh.
15/02/2018 16:10Posted by Velsyana
the Purge of Dalaran


A short-lived victory, considering in the following two years Dalaran would return neutral, effectively negating everything this event accomplished.

15/02/2018 16:10Posted by Velsyana
SoO


Such a victory. What did the Grand Alliance gain from the Siege of Orgrimmar, again? Oh, right. The Horde was kind enough to pull back from Ashenvale after they chopped down a large portion of the forest. Such a triumph, truly.

'We will end you!'

These words spoken by the prestigious High-King mattered very little, when the next year conflict started once more in Ashran.

That being said, this conflict is just beyond stupid. The leadership of Azeroth is made up of idiots (the only exception being the wise-beyond-his-years and inexperienced Anduin), and it would seem that leaders the likes of Alleria Windrunner and Velen are the only one who realize the true enemy isn't the other faction, but the Old Gods.

Because, mark my words, the Old Gods are behind this so-called Battle for Azeroth. It's obvious, it couldn't be otherwise. I'm just waiting to see how they are involved exactly. And, surprise, it doesn't matter who emerges victorious from this faction war, because the Old Gods win either way.
As a Night Elf fan give me a good reason why should I like BfA?
Khadgar and Magni also flatly refuse to get involved, so the Kirin Tor will be on the sidelines too.
15/02/2018 16:58Posted by Shinil
As a Night Elf fan give me a good reason why should I like BfA?


You get to look at me casting fel-type spells.

that's a reason to love BfA.
15/02/2018 16:58Posted by Shinil
As a Night Elf fan give me a good reason why should I like BfA?


You can always make a Nightborne characther to love the expansion :P

Anyway even if blizz makes us the bad guys, i will still enjoy the story (unless they make us as evil as void itself)

Btw @Valistri i give you 8/10 for your positive excitement but i downed 2 points for the huuuge text :)
15/02/2018 16:58Posted by Shinil
As a Night Elf fan give me a good reason why should I like BfA?


Race-change.

I’m deadly serious.

If you like the primal and savage forest hunters that pray to some wild gods and are heirs to an ancient empire that ruled the world, make yourself a Zandalari.
But if you liked the imperialist vibe of racial supremacy and wielding magics that shaped the foundations of the world itself, make yourself a Nightborne.

Those are the two aspects that defined the Night elves. The former one had a relevant role in the old RTS games, while the second one resonates more with the ancient imperial approach they had with Azshara.

Night elves these days? Reduced to mere human sidekicks and secondary characters in the human story about Anduin and his adventures.
Brace yourself to witness how the race is used as a plot device to kickstart some human development such as the one Tyrande had with Varian in Krasarang
As I thought there is no reason.
15/02/2018 17:57Posted by Shinil
As I thought there is no reason.


Malfurion dies in the burning of Teldrassil and Tyrande goes crazy, bringing fully back the "savage" features of the Night Elves Sentinels of WC3 who immediately go aggressive and open a warfront in the Barrens against the Horde.

Wouldn't this be acceptable for a Night Elf fan? I think so...
15/02/2018 18:00Posted by Velsyana
15/02/2018 17:57Posted by Shinil
As I thought there is no reason.


Malfurion dies in the burning of Teldrassil and Tyrande goes crazy, bringing fully back the "savage" features of the Night Elves Sentinels of WC3 who immediately go aggressive and open a warfront in the Barrens against the Horde.

Wouldn't this be acceptable for a Night Elf fan? I think so...


It won't happen. I have waited since Cata for a proper lore development for Night Elves and it never occurred. What makes you think that with the current people like Afrasiabi and Golden in the lore team in an expansion which the story is about Humans vs Horde that the Night Elves lose all of their homelands, they are going to have a good development. I guarantee that the maximum thing that is going to happen is Tyrande give the Alliance 2-3 WQs in Kalimdor, considering that they don't intend to make another ALP with Andruin.

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