All races should be able to be Paladins

General
19/02/2018 11:56Posted by Belgeon
18/02/2018 23:07Posted by Svetä
then when you ask for power, SOMETHING will answer

(citation needed)


Well a prayer is a plea for assistance. You are asking for power; for healing or damage.

I'd say that a Priest is a conduit for something else. A Paladin is a focus for the power itself.

Also, just directly at you, Belgeon, does that high colour not annoy you with the head clipping through it in combat? ^^
19/02/2018 12:27Posted by Hyneken
19/02/2018 11:56Posted by Belgeon
...
(citation needed)


Well a prayer is a plea for assistance. You are asking for power; for healing or damage.

I'd say that a Priest is a conduit for something else. A Paladin is a focus for the power itself.

Also, just directly at you, Belgeon, does that high colour not annoy you with the head clipping through it in combat? ^^


I think Mr OP in question is implying that, no matter what, if you ask for power something will answer.

Like beer.

Which is insane.

And I wouldn't worry about my colours being too high, blue is the only way to go.
19/02/2018 13:28Posted by Belgeon
19/02/2018 12:27Posted by Hyneken
...

Well a prayer is a plea for assistance. You are asking for power; for healing or damage.

I'd say that a Priest is a conduit for something else. A Paladin is a focus for the power itself.

Also, just directly at you, Belgeon, does that high colour not annoy you with the head clipping through it in combat? ^^


I think Mr OP in question is implying that, no matter what, if you ask for power something will answer.

Like beer.

Which is insane.

And I wouldn't worry about my colours being too high, blue is the only way to go.


Collar. Meant Collar. No need to be pedantic over an autocorrect mishap.

Beer could essentially motivate you to use more power. You ask the beer and it unlocks it.
Not too sure where I stand on this really. If our chars are special little snowflakes like we are in Legion then there isn't many reasons why most races cannot become a Paladin. They would merely be a rare exception, like the Nelf who becomes a Paladin in the Paladin story line. She didn't become a Paladin from what I gathered by worshiping Elune but worshiping and accepting the Light directly. So it wouldn't be a case of a Troll for example worshipping Loa who through some indirect route allows them to become a Paladin but the Troll would just be taught and worship the Light itself, obviously it would be rare but I would prefer this option to any weird Lore bending route.

If the character is not a special snowflake anymore and just a normal joe it would still be possible but would be harder to accept. Either way if all classes could become Paladins it would make far more sense that they got it by actually worshipping the Light and not some other whimsy. Dwarves for example didn't become Paladins until humans introduced them to the Holy Light. Worgens weren't able to become Druids until the Nelfs helped them. Also the Dwarves have a deep connection to the Earth, some of them can even commune with it, this doesn't mean they have become Druids through this way. Inventing new ways like this just strains the Lore, far easier if it's gonna happen to just say, yeah this rare person was just taught how to become a Paladin by worshipping the Light rather than this person somehow became a Paladin because they believed so much in machinery that the Holy Light granted them a boon, it becomes a bit too much American Gods.
18/02/2018 23:07Posted by Svetä
Pandaren worship the brew


Here, have my like.
pandarens worshiping the brew XD

this is the best post ive seen a while
Problem with the "special snowflake" was that you could end up being asked as the Highlord to go do a specific dungeon and end up having the Tank, Healer and 2 DPS also being the "sole leader" of the Paladin Order.

Additionally, "Special Snowflakes" become rather unspecial once everyone becomes a Troll Paladin for "super special unique 1-in-a-Million" reasons.

Race/Class restrictions give purpose to choice. If every race could be every class then why is their any race choice?

If all races think in the same way to be able to be the same classes, why is there fighting? Why are there factions?
I do not agree with having all races able to be Paladins but...
I do find it extremely stupid for races that can be Priests but cannot be Paladins,
(With the exception of the Forsaken because they practice Shadow)
Because Paladins are literally Priests that learned to pick a weapon and
fight.

So why can't a troll be a Paladin? Why can't a Night Elf be paladin? etc.
19/02/2018 15:48Posted by Zaryana
I do not agree with having all races able to be Paladins but...
I do find it extremely stupid for races that can be Priests but cannot be Paladins,
(With the exception of the Forsaken because they practice Shadow)
Because Paladins are literally Priests that learned to pick a weapon and
fight.

So why can't a troll be a Paladin? Why can't a Night Elf be paladin? etc.


Perhaps there is a difference between the faith/capabilities of being a Priest and the faith/capabilities of being a Paladin. One asks for help directly from their (varying) faith source through prayer, the other channels and focuses the raw power of The Light.

Culturally, the Trolls and Night Elves may not believe that way about their own faith. It might just come down to that Trolls just do not want to be Paladins. Not because they hate them, but because they simply do not have that mindset.

On top of that, I've already said that just because they are Priests, doesn't mean they all worship the same faith.
18/02/2018 23:11Posted by Froia
18/02/2018 23:07Posted by Svetä
Pandaren worship the brew


lol what


This really made me laugh hehe
18/02/2018 23:11Posted by Froia
18/02/2018 23:07Posted by Svetä
Pandaren worship the brew


lol what


Das rite! *chugs down his Mudbrew*
No.
I said every race should be able to produce Paladins because the most important requirements for accessing the light appear to be things like determination, will and faith.

I.e. characters who fulfill these requirements should be able to draw on the light without even necessarily recognizing or accepting the power source as the light.

Case in point: Sunwalkers. Tauren Paladins are a thing, yet they draw their light powers from their worship of the earthmother, not the holy light.
In the exact same way, a Troll's worship of the Loa could grant them access as well. Same with damn near every other race

And then there is the simple fact that every race (except Orcs, hilariously) can be Priests. This by itself proves that all races (again, except Orcs) are in fact able to wield the light.
From there, all it takes is for a bunch of Priests to get tired of being one-shot, pick up a two-hander and some plate and BAM, you got <insert non-Orc race> Paladins.

19/02/2018 15:44Posted by Hyneken
Race/Class restrictions give purpose to choice. If every race could be every class then why is their any race choice?

Not counting allied races:
- every race can be Warriors (100%)
- every race can be Hunters (100%)
- all but 1 race can be Priests (92%)
- all but 1 race can be Mages (92%)
- all but 1 race can be Death Knights (92%)
- all but 2 races can be Rogues (84%)
- all but 2 races can be Monks (84%)
- all but 4 races can be Warlocks (69%)

I do get what you're saying, but with the state that class distribution is at already, what's the point of keeping up the pretenses? Why not simply give players more options?
18/02/2018 23:07Posted by Svetä
Nightborne are a bit more iffy, granted, but frankly I'd argue that "Arcane Paladin" would be a smaller breach of lore than having members of a society based ENTIRELY around magic say "screw that", pick up daggers, a bow or a broadsword and follow the ways of the Rogue/Hunter/Warrior

So you just want them to be battlemages under the name "paladin"? that seems unnecessary since they've already got warriors and battlemages.
19/02/2018 18:07Posted by Svetä
19/02/2018 15:44Posted by Hyneken
Race/Class restrictions give purpose to choice. If every race could be every class then why is their any race choice?

Not counting allied races:
- every race can be Warriors (100%)
- every race can be Hunters (100%)
- all but 1 race can be Priests (92%)
- all but 1 race can be Mages (92%)
- all but 1 race can be Death Knights (92%)
- all but 2 races can be Rogues (84%)
- all but 2 races can be Monks (84%)
- all but 4 races can be Warlocks (69%)

I do get what you're saying, but with the state that class distribution is at already, what's the point of keeping up the pretenses? Why not simply give players more options?


Again, purpose of choice. Lore. The different capabilities of each race. Heck, why not even throw in the fact that you can't always get everything handed to you on a plate? There are restrictions in the game because it adds flavor and depth to the world of Azeroth.
19/02/2018 11:27Posted by Monsterbaby
That's why I'm quite pleased Demon Hunters only were available to Night Elves and Blood Elves. I hope it stays that way, although I can see Void Elves and Nightborne being added to that pool later.


Nightborne should be capable of being a Demon hunter already, we see in surmaer the NPC Nightbornes become Fel and Use Warglaives, don't look like ur traditional Illidan ones but they are double bladed.

I think the reason we didn't get it is 1) it'd give us heritage armour for free and because void elves don't fit for Demon hunter.

Fel armys were created to Kill Void, a Void Elf cant wield Fel... so it cant combine unless they made SubClasses in a Future Expansion, where they could make a Void Hunter for that specific race.

I cant see Demon hunter being opened up really... now we don't rly have anyone turning to illidan as hes gone so new races wont of met Illidan pushing Demon hunter off the table.. and they wont allow nightborne demon hunters Prior a alternative for alliance

i think a void elf Demon hunter, would make less sense then a Dwarven Demon hunter... Void Elves are Void and cant wield Fel, theres no lore of Such things happen.. its a Polar oppisite to the Light.. Fel is a Chaotic Magic.

if they were to open this up.. i sincerely hope Void Elves are not the ones to.
19/02/2018 18:07Posted by Svetä
I said every race should be able to produce Paladins because the most important requirements for accessing the light appear to be things like determination, will and faith.

I.e. characters who fulfill these requirements should be able to draw on the light without even necessarily recognizing or accepting the power source as the light.

Case in point: Sunwalkers. Tauren Paladins are a thing, yet they draw their light powers from their worship of the earthmother, not the holy light.
In the exact same way, a Troll's worship of the Loa could grant them access as well. Same with damn near every other race

And then there is the simple fact that every race (except Orcs, hilariously) can be Priests. This by itself proves that all races (again, except Orcs) are in fact able to wield the light.
From there, all it takes is for a bunch of Priests to get tired of being one-shot, pick up a two-hander and some plate and BAM, you got <insert non-Orc race> Paladins.

19/02/2018 15:44Posted by Hyneken
Race/Class restrictions give purpose to choice. If every race could be every class then why is their any race choice?

Not counting allied races:
- every race can be Warriors (100%)
- every race can be Hunters (100%)
- all but 1 race can be Priests (92%)
- all but 1 race can be Mages (92%)
- all but 1 race can be Death Knights (92%)
- all but 2 races can be Rogues (84%)
- all but 2 races can be Monks (84%)
- all but 4 races can be Warlocks (69%)

I do get what you're saying, but with the state that class distribution is at already, what's the point of keeping up the pretenses? Why not simply give players more options?


That's a good point actually, the vast majority of classes can be played by the vast majority of races already. And thinking about it, it isn't unreasonable after over a decade of constant war and collaboration that certain things wouldn't be shared. We can just look at the real world for that, information between cutlures actually moves around, it doesn't break my immersion in real life at all.

Regarding seeing everyone being a special snowflake well that really comes down to a suspension of belief, something we already do, the Pillars of creation for example, there are millions of them floating around but we just accept that as gameplay reasons. Now of course toons does require a different level of belief I get that, for some people it would break it, others it wouldn't.

I guess it comes down to what the majority of the player base want, whatever that is of course.
@Svetä: You really should not disregard the Allied races when making calculations... Especially since some of them are already far more popular than several very old races.

And on a general level, just no, all races should not be able to be paladins.
I’m down with Gnome Paladins but the moment it becomes standard to play a rotting corpse pretending to be a Paladin, they might as well allow all Classes to all Races.

Heck, just put some sugar into us past eight o’clock in the evening, and we Gnomies Double Jump like the best of them!
To be honest, I agree with those here who say that too many races can play too many classes. But Paladins can only be played by 5 races(6 if you count both draenei races), so it is not really a problem with this class, since 4/5(or 5/6) races have a really good lore reason to be Paladins, with the exclusion being Tauren, they are more like Druids believing in the sun than Paladins.

Now I do understand Bliz wanted Horde to have 2 Paladin races, but I think there are(at least) 2 other options that would have been cooler.

Undead Paladins might not work, because they are cursed, but they could have made it work if the risen was a Paladin in life and they would've made the class have a special quest to make it work by either hiding the curse or having a too strong conviction to fight for the light(Lothraxion is a light demon, so there should be a way) or something.

I don't really see the problems with Troll Paladins, sure a lot of their people believe in voodoo, but Blood Elves are addicted to mana, Blood Elves, Humans and Dwarves can be Warlocks, the only real perfect Paladin race is at the end of the day the (Lightforged) Draenei. And since Trolls can be Priests, this shows to me not all of them are voodoo wankers.

Goblins aren't really my favorite race to be Paladins, but I don't really see why they can't, since they also can be Shamans and are not really corrupted, just a bit greedy. And being a Shaman also needs conviction.

Orcs are not really an option to be honest, I mean they are the only race that can't even be Priests. Although would love it if Draenor Orcs could be Paladins and were Alliance only, if only for the quality !@#$show.

On the Alliance side certain races could also be Paladins in my opinion, but the races that already can be it are already pretty solid in my opinion, but I'll go over them anyway.

Night Elves in the game itself except for players can already be Paladins(delas/nerus moonfang), and Elune is already a source of (moon)light for the Priestesses of the Moon and seeing their conviction to Elune, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to be Paladins if they get a bit of combat training.

Gnomes are not inherently evil, corrupted or cursed, so I don't really see why they can't be Paladins if their priests are given some combat training, although the same as with Goblins it wouldn't be the coolest race to be Paladins, in my opinion.

Worgen have probably the same explanation as Undead for not being Paladins, but I think they could have solved that the same way they could with Undead, as being Paladins before the curse. I would really like the idea of Undead and Worgen Paladins, to be honest, it is 100% cooler, both lorewise and looks wise than Tauren Paladins.

Pandaren could work, but I don't think it would please the community.

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