I am not a purist, change my mind.

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05/04/2018 12:09Posted by Shogath
I think you are contradicting yourself here a bit.


Not at all, for a start we are talking about Kungen here so suggesting he didnt appreciate the raiding would be absurd. He is making the point that there was more to the game and its "endgame" than just raiding and i agree, but everything not just the raiding will be made easier (Thus killing your classic experience) by the issues i have raised. We all have different things we miss about Vanilla and for me it was mostly the raid and instance content because i enjoyed chatting !@#$ to my friends while running dungeons and i believe a large amount of players feel the same way even if they didnt hit all the top tier (by the end everyone was doing MC and ZG so lots of people did raid its just the AQ40 and Naxx content almost no one saw) raids as much as i did.

Kungen was mostly talking about what i am saying, convenience features that made everything easy like flying mounts and LFG (Queing for instances, particularly cross realm was the real death blow for me) ruined the game. Also i have to ask, why if you dont even care about raiding and dungeon content does it bother you so much if those aspects of the game are tweaked to please people like myself who do care?

05/04/2018 12:39Posted by Nostalxrius
a bit?

LOL

He keeps telling us how much he agrees with us, while also telling us how his changes wont bother us because he agrees SOOO much with us.

Really one big troll.


Your still being an ignorant moron eh?, well 10/10 for consistency there i guess... well done!

05/04/2018 12:57Posted by Strvoje
I keep seeing players wanting and justifying graphical changes and animations. But that's not Vanilla. I actually love the old models much more than the new ones, as well as the design and graphic look of the zones. I don't want a modified version of Vanilla WoW, I want Vanilla WoW as it is.

If Blizzard starts making changes it wont be Vanilla WoW, and not the game we Vanilla fans have been asking for ages. That's why it's funny to me when people refer to people as "purists". There is no such thing as a "purist" or a "Pure Vanilla", there are people that want Vanilla and those that don't.

If you want a Vanilla server with changes, you simply do not want Vanilla.


This is a matter of taste then and for the record i dont mind the old graphics but i would like to play the game with them updated. Its kinda like "Super Mario All Stars" on the SNES to me, you cant really claim they ruined Mario by porting its graphics to a 16bit console.

If for arguments sake they could have a toggle between new graphics and old graphics without any effect on game mechanics why would that be a problem for you? And obviously im not after a pure recreation of vanilla or i wouldn't be having this conversation, but as i stated in my OP i would be happy with it unchanged i just feel it would be a missed opportunity.
Gantor598C5B:
05/04/2018 12:09Posted by Shogath
I think you are contradicting yourself here a bit.


Not at all, for a start we are talking about Kungen here so suggesting he didnt appreciate the raiding would be absurd. He is making the point that there was more to the game and its "endgame" than just raiding and i agree, but everything not just the raiding will be made easier (Thus killing your classic experience) by the issues i have raised. We all have different things we miss about Vanilla and for me it was mostly the raid and instance content because i enjoyed chatting !@#$ to my friends while running dungeons and i believe a large amount of players feel the same way even if they didnt hit all the top tier (by the end everyone was doing MC and ZG so lots of people did raid its just the AQ40 and Naxx content almost no one saw) raids as much as i did.

Kungen was mostly talking about what i am saying, convenience features that made everything easy like flying mounts and LFG (Queing for instances, particularly cross realm was the real death blow for me) ruined the game. Also i have to ask, why if you dont even care about raiding and dungeon content does it bother you so much if those aspects of the game are tweaked to please people like myself who do care?


05/04/2018 12:09Posted by Shogath
I do think it may be a good idea to mimic progression through endgame instances by some tweaking here and there but not to the extent where it starts changing classes or other PvE content.
Your still being an ignorant moron eh?, well 10/10 for consistency there i guess... well done!

Wow great argument, I see how u think u win an argument.

ME ME ME ME ME
05/04/2018 20:52Posted by Nostalxrius
Your still being an ignorant moron eh?, well 10/10 for consistency there i guess... well done!

Wow great argument, I see how u think u win an argument.

ME ME ME ME ME


What argument? you have contributed absolutely nothing other than to call me a troll. 3 for 3 on the ignorant moronometer now buddy, your on a roll!

Shogath Well we seem to have found a little common ground there, i think at the very least however all PvE content needs to have its level of challenge tweaked a bit if its gonna be 1.12.1 all the way.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Wow great argument, I see how u think u win an argument.

ME ME ME ME ME


What argument? you have contributed absolutely nothing other than to call me a troll. 3 for 3 on the ignorant moronometer now buddy, your on a roll!

Shogath Well we seem to have found a little common ground there, i think at the very least however all PvE content needs to have its level of challenge tweaked a bit if its gonna be 1.12.1 all the way.

Well u make it really hard to communicate when I have to be a puppet to your rules of conversation, where u decline to see all of my reasoning against your point of view.
05/04/2018 22:44Posted by Nostalxrius
Well u make it really hard to communicate when I have to be a puppet to your rules of conversation, where u decline to see all of my reasoning against your point of view.


What on earth are you referring to, you have offered nothing at all other than deciding im a troll because? Who knows why since thats all you seem to have. Best guess is anyone you dont agree with is a troll because your ignorant.

4 for 4 now, holy crap this guys amazing!
05/04/2018 22:52Posted by Gantor598C5B
4 for 4 now, holy crap this guys amazing!

Your attitude shows more then anything in your ignorant choice of words, keep acting like my words fanished into thin air.
03/04/2018 19:50Posted by Nostalxrius
I think differently.


04/04/2018 08:05Posted by Nostalxrius
This is just wrong and shows what a troll u really are in disguise.


05/04/2018 12:39Posted by Nostalxrius
a bit?

LOL

He keeps telling us how much he agrees with us, while also telling us how his changes wont bother us because he agrees SOOO much with us.

Really one big troll.


05/04/2018 20:52Posted by Nostalxrius
Wow great argument, I see how u think u win an argument.

ME ME ME ME ME


05/04/2018 22:44Posted by Nostalxrius
Well u make it really hard to communicate when I have to be a puppet to your rules of conversation, where u decline to see all of my reasoning against your point of view.


06/04/2018 00:36Posted by Nostalxrius
Your attitude shows more then anything in your ignorant choice of words, keep acting like my words fanished into thin air.


Thats literally everything you have said so far you weird delusional mainiac, you may notice that other people in this thread have made points and counterpoints creating a little interesting discussion and you keep saying "Troll" then insisting you have something of value to say.

The closest thing to some sort of point from you was a more insulting version of Shogath's "I think you are contradicting yourself here a bit." which i replied to in depth because he seems to be a thoughtful person with something to say while you seem like an ignorant moron who keeps shouting "Troll".

5 out of 5, dude the moronometer is going of the charts!

If you have something to contribute to this chat ill be happy to engage with it but so far you got nothing. Caling me a Troll because you dont agree with me doesnt give us much to work with.
06/04/2018 01:15Posted by Gantor598C5B
If you have something to contribute to this chat

I am not a purist, change my mind.

Maybe set some rules next time.
Rules to have a conversation? what they hell are you even talking about, are you a cretin? Not sure if its you trying to be a Troll yourself now or if you are some sort of special needs person so gonna just ignore you unless you say something that makes sense.
Maybe not heroic modes but i dont see that as a problem, helps to get more life out of the lower level stuff and extends the endgame content a fair bit. Still make people form there own groups and treck out there to the instance which to me is where the atmosphere really is. The point however is the game will be a faceroll if it starts at 1.12, people who didnt play Vanilla really dont seem to grasp this fact and im adamant some tweaking to the difficulty is vital


I am fine with difficulty tweaks to raid. I actually pointed out I would not mind even if they added new mechanics to bosses. At least it would have a little fresh feel.

What I am not fan however is multiple verions of same raid. Maybe 5-man dungeons are okay. Raids are something for me on different level. If you beat Ragnaros, you should be proud for your achievement.

I have started "officialy" later in Vanilla and it didn't certainly feel like faceroll, even thought I had some experience already. On other hand I joined to brand new guild. I had to actually wait for some time before we had enough 60lvl players to even start raid Zul'gurub and AQ20
I am fine with difficulty tweaks to raid. I actually pointed out I would not mind even if they added new mechanics to bosses. At least it would have a little fresh feel.

What I am not fan however is multiple versions of same raid. Maybe 5-man dungeons are okay. Raids are something for me on different level. If you beat Ragnaros, you should be proud for your achievement.


Agreed. I really dislike the idea of multiple raid tiers, and am not much fonder of heroic dungeons in vanilla. On one hand they're good because it adds more stuff to do, but how are you going to balance it? Essentially you'd need to model it after BC, where normal end dungeons were the entry level gear for heroics and heroic gear would be the entry for MC. Which honestly isn't a bad idea in theory, but it would mean having to create entirely new loot tables for every dungeon and balance them accordingly, which is a huge amount of work.
I'm not a purist, so I'm not necessarily against it, but it's not happening.
06/04/2018 18:52Posted by Flayed
I am fine with difficulty tweaks to raid. I actually pointed out I would not mind even if they added new mechanics to bosses. At least it would have a little fresh feel.

What I am not fan however is multiple versions of same raid. Maybe 5-man dungeons are okay. Raids are something for me on different level. If you beat Ragnaros, you should be proud for your achievement.


Agreed. I really dislike the idea of multiple raid tiers, and am not much fonder of heroic dungeons in vanilla. On one hand they're good because it adds more stuff to do, but how are you going to balance it? Essentially you'd need to model it after BC, where normal end dungeons were the entry level gear for heroics and heroic gear would be the entry for MC. Which honestly isn't a bad idea in theory, but it would mean having to create entirely new loot tables for every dungeon and balance them accordingly, which is a huge amount of work.
I'm not a purist, so I'm not necessarily against it, but it's not happening.


You are right. I can't see it happening too. I am not really sure how would I feel about heroic dungeons. I can definitively see pros as there aren't that many dungeons to run at level 60. On other hand you have to do plently stuff to do outside of running dungeons and once you get your first raid gear, you will most likely stop do them anyway. It could be nice source of fun for those who likes 5-man dungeons
Yeh i agree with you guys that heroics would be a big ask and is not likely but it would be nice to see the endgame expanded in this way, its also a good excuse to get some more use out of the pre level 60 instances. More importantly it would be an excuse for re-itemization across the board which imo is sorely needed as the itemization pre TBC was abysmal and to my mind a huge contributing factor in the weakness of offspecs/hybrid classes.

06/04/2018 18:19Posted by Mealstorm
I have started "officialy" later in Vanilla and it didn't certainly feel like faceroll, even thought I had some experience already. On other hand I joined to brand new guild.


Its not just that the game is literally easier in 1.12 (which it absolutely is) its also the fact that all the instances are open right away. Folk will just nuke ZG and practically be able to skip MC, 5 mans other than Dire Maul will be practically pointless and you will only do DM briefly to help you start farming ZG/AQ20. Most 5 man content and MC/BWL will be redundant almost immediately, this will certainly be exacerbated by everyone having almost 0 ping and 120fps even on a mediocre PC.

I would like to see Heroic modes that are outrageously hard and require raid tier gear to get through and Heroic raids that require Heroic 5 man gear to even think about starting. This would breath a lot more life into all the endgame content and keep people engaged for longer. Failing that absolutely tweak the difficulty of ALL PvE content to account for the easier gameplay and play a bit with the itemization and loot tables.
06/04/2018 22:29Posted by Gantor598C5B
Yeh i agree with you guys that heroics would be a big ask and is not likely but it would be nice to see the endgame expanded in this way, its also a good excuse to get some more use out of the pre level 60 instances. More importantly it would be an excuse for re-itemization across the board which imo is sorely needed as the itemization pre TBC was abysmal and to my mind a huge contributing factor in the weakness of offspecs/hybrid classes.


I definitely agree with you about itemisation.
As I said previously, I'm not a purist, and I can't fathom how anyone can think itemisation in vanilla was well done. The fact that every hybrid was relegated to healing was terrible game design, as it massively limits player choice. BC was a huge upgrade in general class balance and overall game design, tbh.
I know it's not going to happen, but personally I would LOVE to see more itemisation options for hybrids. Maybe even some talent tweaks like giving Ret paladins Crusader Strike as their 31 point talent, so they don't feel like the doofy, awkward class that just stands there doing nothing while waiting for auto attacks.
It's a pipe dream, but I think it would be a great change, personally.
Maybe it should be possible to mod Vanilla in the same way that you could do with Warcraft 2 and 3 and Starcraft. (and im not talking addons here)

That way people could get creative and maybe put a new lease of life on MMORPG's.

There's probably all kinds of stuff wrong with this but it's just a thought.
07/04/2018 11:52Posted by Flayed
Maybe even some talent tweaks like giving Ret paladins Crusader Strike as their 31 point talent, so they don't feel like the doofy, awkward class that just stands there doing nothing while waiting for auto attacks.


To be honest i think the actual class balance wasn't as bad as a lot of people think by the time we got to 1.12 and im not sure i would want much in the way of mechanical changes to the gameplay. I really think liek 80% of the problems hybrid classes and offspecs faced was itemization and not the class itself (it wasn't perfect but not as bad as folks remember). Like i mentioned in my OP if you wanted to be a tank Druid you had to use a lvl49 BoE blue staff which was absurd, Druid tanks couldn't hit the defense cap so they could never ever be used in a raid. This is why i think something like Heroics is a nice idea because it opens up a massive avenue for new items for all classes and builds with almost no mechanical changes to the game.
07/04/2018 12:47Posted by Shogath
Maybe it should be possible to mod Vanilla in the same way that you could do with Warcraft 2 and 3 and Starcraft. (and im not talking addons here)

That way people could get creative and maybe put a new lease of life on MMORPG's.

There's probably all kinds of stuff wrong with this but it's just a thought.


Im not sure how you could mod a game beyond your own UI/graphics without effecting everyone elses game experience.
Let me make this abundantly clear

NO CHANGES.

NO CHANGES.

NO CHANGES.

ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANGES.

...except bug fixes. That's all I want, and that's what any true vanilla WoW fan wants. Anyone who wants things changed is not a fan of Vanilla WoW and really doesn't even want it, and is basically just a troll infiltrator.
Another moron with nothing to contribute, lol "Troll infiltrator" grow up idiot everyone doesn't have to agree with you to be a "true" fan.

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